Why So Many Gay In Esan?

[dukkha]

Hooker PB, an interesting name for a town, were there any there??

[dukkha]

Oooops, it was a plural form I was referring to...and no, it aint anything like an Isaan village, that I can tell you, having spent many times in Roi Et...my partner has just gone out to Suriwong with his 17 year old Kateoy cousin, handbag and nail polish..doubt if any young lads in Hooker would be in such apparel on a Saturday night...if so probably would now be bashed or at least scarred in some way...literally or figuratively..would prefer to spend time with an Isaan lad rather than an urban Thai with a university degree and a credit card for Siam Paragon, but so many men so many opinions, have forgotten my Latin translation however think I have made my point..must be time for this old man to read the book, have already had the vino with dinner...now a cup of green tea for Nana Dukkha! ...Thank you Sendbaht for your comment..cant find a way to private you due to computer illiteracy and senile dementia...I still adhere to the Kinsey Report which states 10% of any population is the gay component...though for Dr Kinsey the word 'gay' had not been invented, and it was never a thai word from my research, purely a western import linguistically .....Viva La Sanuk!!!...Gawd we in the west have still a lot to learn...maybe 'sub prime' is now in the thai vocab....I mean 'top' and 'bottom'....what have we done and are doing to this culture..I do know there is an entire gay vocab that gay thais use that is totally unkown to most of us, maybe with the exception of JDINASIA...a man whose literacy skills in thai far surpass most of us I would imagine..chok dii and tam sabaii took kon. Dukkha...by the way the thai translation of my avatar is from the Pali, meaning, suffering....and dont we all...

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm not sure it has been demonstrated that there are any more gay men in Isaan than there are in any other area of Thailand- there certainly are a fair number of them about everywhere one goes, thank goodness.

And it is not necessary for gay men themselves to reproduce for gay genes (if there are any) to be passed on. It's a very common effect which in fact provides the genetic justification for family bonding: why should helping your brothers and sisters be genetically reinforced unless it benefits you by partial replication of your own genes? This is why "hive" species work genetically- even though most of the individuals don't reproduce, they are all related.

Considering that one common traditional role for gay men in many societies is child care, I don't find it surprising that one can find gay Isaan men taking care of the children, but I don't think that automatically means that they are the fathers of those particular children.

Unfortunately, considering the economic challenges facing the northeast, there is- ahem- another reason a lot of people on the tourist scene run into individuals from Isaan, but I don't think that says anything about Isaan's sexual demographics but rather its economic demographics.

[chrisyork]

I have family in poor rural Bururam and I agree that there are probably no more gays in Isaan than anywhere else. However it is the only place where i have been asked upfront which way i swing, which is a wildly unusual question for the rest of Thailand. So perhaps Isaan is more aware and interested in these things?

Chris

[Ijustwannateach]

I would like to remind our regular posters and visitors that the topic in this particular thread is gays in Esan. Please reserve wittering for the "wittering" thread newly opened.

[yumidesign]

I have family in poor rural Bururam and I agree that there are probably no more gays in Isaan than anywhere else. However it is the only place where i have been asked upfront which way i swing, which is a wildly unusual question for the rest of Thailand. So perhaps Isaan is more aware and interested in these things?

Chris

by gay people in Esan i include all the money boys in Phuket, Pattaya and Bangkok. Sure a lot of these boys are from poor Esan villages with sisters or friends in the love for sale or rent business

[Texpat]

I would agree with the OP that Issan (my neighborhood, anyway) is full of openly gay men.

My wife's friends are genuinely concerned that their daughters will have to leave Issan to find decent husbands.

Quite sad, actually.

[yumidesign]

Nearly all men in Esan in Northern Thailand, particularly in the villages where being openly gay is not accepted by family and village elders, and also in Laos, get married, even if they are gay

And the proof is where? I live with my Esaan guy and his family and met loads of gays. Haven't noticed any unacceptance. Some do get married, some don't. Mostly they want to have children to take care them when they are old since there is no social insurance.

Its the tradition to do so.

So it is. Getting married, that is.

When these gay people marry the chance of a gay offspring is greatly increased because of the genetic effect

Total, utter nonsense. There are no proof that gay couples are more likely to have gay children than any other couples. And which parent you mean? Get real, man. Maybe gay would be more accepted in this kind of family but nothing else.

I have not seen any studied scientific evidence of this, but it makes sense and i have seen many gay men in these areas with young children in their arms

Yep. No scientific evidence. So WHAT are you talking about? Feelings, those lovely feeeeeeeliings...and how you know they are gay? I do hold our family's children and so does my husband. That does not make them our children. Or you know these gays and their families close?

What do you think about this idea and can anyone back up this proposition with any information?

Keep your eyes open and your mind as well...can't say much more.

I too have many friends in Esan and all are harassed by their families with the “when will you get married” question, with one exception the guy in a small village near Khon Kaen who told his family and his father never spoke to him again. The old man died last year without ever reconciling or touching his son again which had a profound emotional effect on him.

The tradition is to get married even if you are gay

Yes this is a theory but scientific evidence does exist that genetically there is more chance of offspring born of parents or grandparents who have gay genes.

Yes this is an idea based on observation, which is the basis of any scientific study

My open eyes and open mind has lead me to think that these propositions could be true

[dukkha]

For me,happily, my Isaan in laws accept me as a son In law without conditions, as I often quote Armistead Maupin. author of Tales of The City, it is my logical family that is important, not my biological family..think about it...I have only one younger brother, and his absence is most conspicous in my life...I am the brother, the uncle, who lives in Thailand with my Thai partner, and for aussies the fact that he is not only younger than me, uneducuated and poor, and an oriental , is just too much for their narrow view of society to get their heads around..Australia is a racist country and the main reason that I am happy not to not live there...after 9 years of living in Thailand any desire to return to Terra Nullus is not an option...here as an old gay man I am cared for, respected and loved beyond the notion of 'Wallet'...why would an older gay man subject himself to the ageist homophobia of such a country..for me I quote the american authour who has lived in Japan for 49 years..in this counry I like myself..sure like yourself wherever you live but the reality is a different story..as I approach my 70's I not only like myself but others do also..forget Prozac, the thais are my medication,,,and a lot cheaper in my experience...I think I speak for many older farangs who have decided to make LOS their home..they would not be treated the same way as in the West! For those who beg to differ I think they should listen to their heart..Good night from me and goodnight from him.. Dukkah

[yumidesign]

For me,happily, my Isaan in laws accept me as a son In law without conditions, as I often quote Armistead Maupin. author of Tales of The City, it is my logical family that is important, not my biological family..think about it...I have only one younger brother, and his absence is most conspicous in my life...I am the brother, the uncle, who lives in Thailand with my Thai partner, and for aussies the fact that he is not only younger than me, uneducuated and poor, and an oriental , is just too much for their narrow view of society to get their heads around..Australia is a racist country and the main reason that I am happy not to not live there...after 9 years of living in Thailand any desire to return to Terra Nullus is not an option...here as an old gay man I am cared for, respected and loved beyond the notion of 'Wallet'...why would an older gay man subject himself to the ageist homophobia of such a country..for me I quote the american authour who has lived in Japan for 49 years..in this counry I like myself..sure like yourself wherever you live but the reality is a different story..as I approach my 70's I not only like myself but others do also..forget Prozac, the thais are my medication,,,and a lot cheaper in my experience...I think I speak for many older farangs who have decided to make LOS their home..they would not be treated the same way as in the West! For those who beg to differ I think they should listen to their heart..Good night from me and goodnight from him.. Dukkah

thank you for sharing your beautiful story, my sentiments exactly

[Sansai Sam]

If ignorance is bliss there must be some ecstatic people on this thread!

[kunjet]

In the Science of Desire: The Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior by Dean Hamer, Hamer, who is noted in the article previously posted, noted that gay liberation may have the effect of decreasing homosexuality in a population since gay men would stop marrying and reproducing. Of course, this is not the only factor in the passing on "gay" genes. And now it is very trendy in many places for gay men to have babies, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[Jingthing]

In the Science of Desire: The Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior by Dean Hamer, Hamer, who is noted in the article previously posted, noted that gay liberation may have the effect of decreasing homosexuality in a population since gay men would stop marrying and reproducing. Of course, this is not the only factor in the passing on "gay" genes. And now it is very trendy in many places for gay men to have babies, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

I wouldn't worry about that. Most of the world is not liberated. I would worry some about scientists coming up with a genetic "cure" that would prevent gay babies being born in the first place.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

On the subject of gay men no longer having to marry and make 6 or more babies, I agree that might have a teeny effect on birth rates. But not one percent the effect that birth control, condoms, education, industrialization, and abortion have had on birth rates. Not even one percent effect, because about 70.6% of the gay men never made babies anyway. Al right, maybe 51.56%. In my homo opinion, I suspect this "decreasing birth rate" boogeyman is just more Bulgarian baloney against buggerers and Bavarian burghers. Besides, with the world's population now approaching 700 billion (like everything else), decreasing birth rates are a good thing for Mother Earth and Father Time.

[Ijustwannateach]

In the Science of Desire: The Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior by Dean Hamer, Hamer, who is noted in the article previously posted, noted that gay liberation may have the effect of decreasing homosexuality in a population since gay men would stop marrying and reproducing. Of course, this is not the only factor in the passing on "gay" genes. And now it is very trendy in many places for gay men to have babies, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

I wouldn't worry about that. Most of the world is not liberated. I would worry some about scientists coming up with a genetic "cure" that would prevent gay babies being born in the first place.

Don't worry, JT. Our gay scientists would come up with a 'final solution' for the 'straight gene problem' first, if it became THAT easy.

:D

[omomom]

Homosexuallity is not normal,man was NOT designed to be with man,if it were so,how would human kind conceive?

Hmm? Then I guess the giraffe is "not normal" as well since most bulls are gay? Normal is such a load of bull crap. What is "normal?" Are YOU normal? Isn't "normal" just another word for popular, or comfortable, or conditioned, or routine, programmed or commonplace? And then, what the hel_l does conceive have to do with it? People have been conceived since the dawn of time. Or I guess since Adam and Eve in your case. Having or being gay doesn't seem to have affected that in the slightest, so what's your point? Most people like the opposite sex and some like the same sex, call it choice or call it instinct, what are you so scared of? Because I'll go with you, I'll call it a choice if you like, but then so what? I also like mayonnaise on my hotdog (no pun intended), which some people find disgusting, so then I guess I should burn in hel_l? Normal. Normal has killed millions of people through thousands of years. Whose God are you on, whoops, I mean side?

[himachal]

Surely then the fact that most gays are born to heterosexual parents totally destroys the theory it is genetic ? Just my satang's worth here

No, I don't think so. But it does destroy the theory that it's hereditary.

[Ijustwannateach]

No, I don't think so. But it does destroy the theory that it's hereditary.

Ask the worker bees why they let the queen have all the sex, and maybe you'll find that it doesn't destroy the theory that it's hereditary.

[roger007]

For me,happily, my Isaan in laws accept me as a son In law without conditions, as I often quote Armistead Maupin. author of Tales of The City, it is my logical family that is important, not my biological family..think about it...I have only one younger brother, and his absence is most conspicous in my life...I am the brother, the uncle, who lives in Thailand with my Thai partner, and for aussies the fact that he is not only younger than me, uneducuated and poor, and an oriental , is just too much for their narrow view of society to get their heads around..Australia is a racist country and the main reason that I am happy not to not live there...after 9 years of living in Thailand any desire to return to Terra Nullus is not an option...here as an old gay man I am cared for, respected and loved beyond the notion of 'Wallet'...why would an older gay man subject himself to the ageist homophobia of such a country..for me I quote the american authour who has lived in Japan for 49 years..in this counry I like myself..sure like yourself wherever you live but the reality is a different story..as I approach my 70's I not only like myself but others do also..forget Prozac, the thais are my medication,,,and a lot cheaper in my experience...I think I speak for many older farangs who have decided to make LOS their home..they would not be treated the same way as in the West! For those who beg to differ I think they should listen to their heart..Good night from me and goodnight from him.. Dukkah

hi dukkha

This is I think my first post on this forum (that I remember!!) but I was so inspired by your post above that I was energized into a response.

I can identify with just about everything you posted, (in your case OZ, in my case UK, but same same !)

It is such a pleasant change to be comfortable in a country where the hatred & bigotry of our respective countries are missing.

Glad your life style is bringing you comfort & respect.

& good night from me !

roger007