Do You Favor An Israeli Style Capture Of Thaksin From Nicaragua?

[monkfish]

You want to use the MILITARY action to get Thaksin because he convicted of Tax aviation?

That's some high flying tax evasion!

Actually, I think the problem for Thailand now is that Thaksin won't shut up, that he continues to pull strings to foment revolution in Thailand. Most governments, whether you consider the current government legit or not, would have a problem with that.

Jingthingaling, where did I miss hearing that Thaksin was in Nicaragua?

He met with Ortega. I can't find the picture. He kissed some major Nica butt!

And whilst I do not doubt that Danny might have molested his step-daughter, she was considered very unstable and unreliable, which may be why charges were not followed through.

No, Ortega enjoyed presidential immunity. Being serial molested would mess up any child.

Does this post demonstrate the mentality of the average PAD supporter?

[Jingthing]

Does this post demonstrate the mentality of the average PAD supporter?

Its possible but I am not a PAD supporter.

[monkfish]

Well what ever you are, you need help.

[Jingthing]

Well what ever you are, you need help.

Thanks for sharing, Dr. Fishman.

[bonzor]

... or for a country such a Myanmar to allow Nicaragua to establish a base there.

That's silly. This matter is 1000 times more important to Thailand than Nicaragua. I imagine Ortega is going for it to get some of Thakky's moolah.

Of course it's silly, they whole premise of your poll is silly.

Silly is too kind. The post aspires to being silly, can only dream of silliness. It's ludicrous, ridiculous and presposterous.

[permanent_disorder]

Israel, in the past, has carried out successful operations in foreign countries that have weak military forces to capture high value targets.

From the Thai government's point of view, there is no higher a value target of capture than Thaksin.

It now seems likely that Thaksin will probably be spending at least some of his time in tiny Nicaragua.

Should the Thai air force snatch him by force in Managua?

What's the downside? War with Nicaragua. Big threat there.

what kind of operation you are talking about?

the eichmann kidnapping? but there was no air force fighter jet involved. just a small team of secret agent snatch him on the road and brought him heavy drugged out of Argentinia "as drunken diplomat" on a civilian passenger flight.

a couple of assassinations by gunmens or killings with small bombs in a couple of european cities in the 1970s and 80s. but again more a secret agent, mossad operation. and it was planned as executions and not an attempted captures that went wrong.

okay the abduction of Mordechai Vanunu was a capture alive. they wanted him for trail back home. tricked from the UK to a trip to Roma, becaused Israel don't wanted to piss off London.

in the Plaestine conflict, the so called " target killings". take out certain hamas leader. after the location of the target was known, just send a couple of missiles into gaza. for targets located in syra no airstrikes, but the good old car bomb, was the weapen of choice.

successful operations, target dead in 1000 pieces, preventive execution. but those rockets, missiles, bombs are very noisy, other things than only the target can get broken too, innocents hurt.

and even without an israeli role model it is one of the stupidest bar-and-sauna talk fantasies i ever saw here on TVforum. har har, and a little bit "tiny nicaragua" bashing as well. you are fighting old battles from the 80s, right?

[Jingthing]

and even without an israeli role model it is one of the stupidest bar-and-sauna talk fantasies i ever saw here on TVforum. har har, and a little bit "tiny nicaragua" bashing as well. you are fighting old battles from the 80s, right?

I was talking about a capture operation, to bring him back to Thailand for trial as a hypothetical idea for discussion. That is all. No interest in discussing Israeli politics here, nor can we, it is off topic.

Not so much Nicaragua bashing as Ortega bashing. This has nothing to do with the past of Nicaragua, their revolution was justified. What is Ortega thinking NOW to entertain hosting an active promoter of civil war in Asia? This isn't a normal political asylum where old corrupt guys go to spend their money and retire. Thaksin is still an active player. He says JUMP and his red shirted thugs JUMP. He clearly wants to come back to Thailand to be dictator for life. Its not as if they are ideological soul brothers. Its the MONEY so I call Ortega a prostitute, what would you call him? He has clearly come a long way baby from his younger days as a real Latin American revolutionary. Thaksin bought elections with his money cynically exploiting rural peasants and now he can buy a new safe base of operation, because of course money buys everything, or does it?

Silly is too kind. The post aspires to being silly, can only dream of silliness. It's ludicrous, ridiculous and presposterous.

Hmmm. I thought those were synonyms but I can't be bothered to look that up, so I'll take your word for it.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[tw25rw]

Thai govt doesnt want Mr T to set foot in thailand really.

Exactly. He's more or less where they want him. I think he risks the Benigno Aquino treatment if he flies back looking to sweep back into power.

[henryalleman]

Too many people in this forum think they still live in the Far West. Thailand is a civilized country, contrary to some others who have illegal rendition flights, secret torture camps, water boarding and so on.

Let sit Thaksin in Nigaraqua, hes out of te way that's the most important.

[Jingthing]

Too many people in this forum think they still live in the Far West. Thailand is a civilized country,

Someone should tell that Simon bloke then down in Phuket about how civilized it is here ...

Or the Rohingyas.

Or the families of the innocent murder victims of Thaksin's drug war.

Let sit Thaksin in Nigaraqua, hes out of te way that's the most important.

He is not content to just sit. He is an agitator. A pro violence agitator.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[bobbin]

How much dope had you smoked when you came up with this idea, JT?

While many of your posts have been amusing, sometimes you just need to shut-up.

Subjecting long-suffering Pattaya-ites to your "stream of conciousness" posts can get a little old. Not many of us are that interested in what is rolling around in your mind on any given day.

And I am probably as pro-Thaksin as you are anti-Thaksin. But usually I keep my own thoughts to myself. He has a right to his own vision for this country.

[permanent_disorder]

I was talking about a capture operation, to bring him back to Thailand for trial as a hypothetical idea for discussion. That is all. No interest in discussing Israeli politics here, nor can we, it is off topic.

the topic is: Do You Favor An [bleep] Style Capture Of Thaksin From Nicaragua?

your first sentence : [bleep] , in the past, has carried out successful operations in foreign countries that have weak military forces to capture high value targets.

that left me clueless. i have no idea what you talking about, but i gave you a short abstract of my level of knowledge. i thought that would make it easier for you to answer, instead that you have to start from the scratch. i didn't list entebbe for example because it wasn't a hunt for a single individual. [bleep] or [bleep] politics isn't gingerly, we know that. sometimes they just do it.

they want eichmann to be on trial, go to argentinia, knock him out with a karate move, dress him with a Kippah and with your chupze he pass the immigration control as drunken member of a jewish delegation.

sucessfull operation: yes; military/airforce involved: no; target captured and in custody: yes

and the eichmann capture was cool. Hannah Arendt wrote her book "The Banality of Evil"

that guy is the mastermind behind the bomb attacks in our towns, programm a missle to track his mobile phone signal, press the start button and call his number. kaboom. so it goes. sucessfull operation: yes; military/airforce involved: yes; target captured and in custody: no

a sniper would have been maybe more classy, but a noisy missile delivers a message that is more striking.

i don't want to judge [bleep] foreign policy and the right or wrong of it. i just stated the facts. so i didn't mentioned 'mistakes' during operations, letterbombs to the wrong adresses, i didn't talked about the involvment of high ranking [bleep] politicans in (para)military operation in the early days. and few other things that are not so kosher in [bleep] operations abroad. i didn't stressed all that controversy that normally envolved when somebody had said [bleep] in an internet forum at all. and now i even bleep every time[bleep] or [bleep] is mentioned with a [bleep] out.

i just kept going, autistic and unemotional, trough a list of well known[bleep] military or 'capture the high value target' operations. thats all. and i checked if the 'operations', i know, fitting your description of a [bleep] style capture. they doesn't. thats why i asked what kind of operation you had in mind.

if you say: [bleep] , in the past, has carried out successful operations in foreign countries that have weak military forces to capture high value targets., thats sounds like a long list of operations or at least a couple. it makes me to start to think about and i wanna know.

is "sucessfull captured" an American English euphemism, i don't get because i am not a native speaker? meaning KABOMM, hatch closed, monkey dead .

or is the [bleep] style only to mess around with 'countries that have weak military forces'

can't you give a description of "a successful [bleep] operations in foreign countries that have weak military forces to capture high value targets" ?

[Jingthing]

I was under the impression that Israel has in the past captured people in foreign countries to bring back to trial in Israel. That is all. End of story. This is NOT going to turn into a discussion of Israeli politics, so forget about it.

I was in no way "officially" proposing this as a serious idea, merely a topic of discussion. Stranger things have happened in real life. I just found it interesting in a hypothetical way, and it seems so have a few others.

I am genuinely amazed at Daniel Ortega's actions and I think he does deserve derision for courting Thaksin, a wanted fugitive and active agitator. Thaksin is no Che!

I did respect him in his earlier days. Now I truly think he is a corrupt old political whore. Ortega has clearly been in power too long, it does corrupt, absolutely.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

I was under the impression that Israel has in the past captured people in foreign countries to bring back to trial in Israel. That is all. End of story. This is NOT going to turn into a discussion of Israeli politics, so forget about it.

I was in no way "officially" proposing this as a serious idea, merely a topic of discussion. Stranger things have happened in real life. I just found it interesting in a hypothetical way, and it seems so have a few others.

I am genuinely amazed at Daniel Ortega's actions and I think he does deserve derision for courting Thaksin, a wanted fugitive and active agitator.

Maybe Ortega views Thaksin as being a legitimately elected head-of-state who was illegally overthrown by a military coup. If he viewed Thaksin in those terms, charges brought against him in Thailand after he was deposed might sound somewhat less than legitmate. You'll recall that there were people who wanted to overthrow Ortega as well after he was elected ovewhelmingly in the 1980's, he may have some sympathy for Thaksin on account of that.

Edited March 8, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

Maybe Ortega views Thaksin as being a legitimately elected head-of-state who was illegally overthrown by a military coup. If he viewed Thaksin in those terms, charges brought against him in Thailand after he was deposed might sound somewhat less than legitmate.

I don't respect Ortega. But I don't think he is retarded either. You must be kidding. ITS THE MONEY!

Here is the test. Thaksin calls Ortega, COLLECT CALL. Thaksin talks for a minute, Hello I used to be PM of Thailand (that's in Asia, Senor, not Taiwan) and now I am a wanted fugitive, will you take care of me in Managua (I have no money)?

CLICK!

What really happened. Ortega's was briefed on the fact that the richest man from Thailand was calling on him and he was looking for favors ...

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

Maybe Ortega views Thaksin as being a legitimately elected head-of-state who was illegally overthrown by a military coup. If he viewed Thaksin in those terms, charges brought against him in Thailand after he was deposed might sound somewhat less than legitmate.

I don't respect Ortega. But I don't think he is retarded either. You must be kidding. ITS THE MONEY!

Here is the test. Thaksin calls Ortega, COLLECT CALL. Thaksin talks for a minute, Hello I used to be PM of Thailand (that's in Asia, Senor, not Taiwan) and now I am a wanted fugitive, will you take care of me in Managua (I have no money)?

CLICK!

What really happened. Ortega's was briefed on the fact the the richest man from Thailand was calling on him and he was looking for favors ...

I really don't understand your bloodlust for Thaksin. It's causing you to lose sight of every principle that you purport to believe him. Why not just gun Thaksin down in the streets of Mangua? After he had the same done to poor innocent drug dealers in Thailand, he deserves it.

[Jingthing]

I really don't understand your bloodlust for Thaksin. It's causing you to lose sight of every principle that you purport to believe him. Why not just gun Thaksin down in the streets of Mangua? After he had the same done to poor innocent drug dealers in Thailand, he deserves it.

I don't condone political murder except for extreme cases like Hitler and Pol Pot. Your post was outrageous. I have no blood lust. I suspect Thaksin does though as he realizes only violence in Thailand will ever bring his corrupt ass back to power. Personally, I am not a champion of the reds or the yellows. But the reds attitude, reflected by their color, is much more PRO VIOLENCE and I detest violence. Thailand needs to get over this Thaksin cult of personality and move on.

Is your hard for Thaksin caused merely by him being on the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, or did he do something to cause you harm personally?

Neither. I don't consider Thaksin's politics to be anything other than a personal desire for total dictatorship, it has nothing to do with positions about the people, he has just used the people for his own ego and monetary gains.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

Maybe Ortega views Thaksin as being a legitimately elected head-of-state who was illegally overthrown by a military coup. If he viewed Thaksin in those terms, charges brought against him in Thailand after he was deposed might sound somewhat less than legitmate.

I don't respect Ortega. But I don't think he is retarded either. You must be kidding. ITS THE MONEY!

Here is the test. Thaksin calls Ortega, COLLECT CALL. Thaksin talks for a minute, Hello I used to be PM of Thailand (that's in Asia, Senor, not Taiwan) and now I am a wanted fugitive, will you take care of me in Managua (I have no money)?

CLICK!

What really happened. Ortega's was briefed on the fact the the richest man from Thailand was calling on him and he was looking for favors ...

I really don't understand your bloodlust for Thaksin. It's causing you to lose sight of every principle that you purport to believe in. Why not just gun Thaksin down in the streets of Mangua? After he had the same done to poor innocent drug dealers in Thailand, he deserves it.

Is your hard-on for Thaksin caused merely by him being on the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, or did he do something to cause you harm personally?

Edited March 8, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

I really don't understand your bloodlust for Thaksin. It's causing you to lose sight of every principle that you purport to believe him. Why not just gun Thaksin down in the streets of Mangua? After he had the same done to poor innocent drug dealers in Thailand, he deserves it.

I don't condone political murder except for extreme cases like Hitler and Pol Pot. Your post was outrageous. I have no blood lust. I suspect Thaksin does though as he realizes only violence in Thailand will ever bring his corrupt ass back to power. Personally, I am not a champion of the reds or the yellows. But the reds attitude, reflected by their color, is much more PRO VIOLENCE and I detest violence. Thailand needs to get over this Thaksin cult of personality and move on.

Is your hard for Thaksin caused merely by him being on the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, or did he do something to cause you harm personally?

Neither. I don't consider Thaksin's politics to be anything other than a personal desire for total dictatorship, it has nothing to do with positions about the people, he has just used the people for his own ego and monetary gains.

OK, you don't condone political murders nor violence. Do you condone the military deposing an elected government?

Edited March 8, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

OK, you don't condone political murders nor violence. Do you condone the military deposing an elected government?

Not in a real democracy. Thailand isn't there yet and may never be there by western standards. Right now this country needs to find a way to move forward without a violent civil war, and Thaksin is only fanning the flames for that. He has become a force for destruction now.

Redshirts in a frenzy. Bangkok or Managua?

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

You may be correct; history is on your side. Is Noriega still in a federal prison in Florida? I seem to recall his sentence being dropped from 40 years to 30... not directly related to Thailand of course, just backing up a post that *is* related to LoS

Noriega was dictator of Panama. His sentence has ended but he remains in US prison pending extradition requests from both Panama and France. Thaksin should be in prison now too, awaiting extradition to Thailand.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[OxfordWill]

Have you considered taking up golf, or perhaps painting?

[Jingthing]

Have you considered taking up golf, or perhaps painting?

Golf? No.

Painting? No.

Any other ideas? Thank you.

[OriginalPoster]

OK, you don't condone political murders nor violence. Do you condone the military deposing an elected government?

Not in a real democracy. Thailand isn't there yet and may never be there by western standards. Right now this country needs to find a way to move forward without a violent civil war, and Thaksin is only fanning the flames for that. He has become a force for destruction now.

Redshirts in a frenzy. Bangkok or Managua?

How will we know when Thailand is a real democracy and that it is no longer legitimate for the military to oust PM's? It seems to be that the same line of reasoning that would conclude that it was OK for the Thai military to depose Thaiksin would also have to conclude that it would have been OK for the US military to depose George Bush. Illegitimate elections, wildly illiberal actions; same-same.

Edited March 8, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

How will we know when Thailand is a real democracy and that it is no longer legitimate for the military to oust PM's?

Who said anything about legitimate. We are dealing here with realpolitik and Thaksin must leave politics for good, for the good of his country.

If you are looking for someone to give you the PAD party line, you are asking the wrong person.

Comparing the US and Thai systems is beyond absurd.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

How will we know when Thailand is a real democracy and that it is no longer legitimate for the military to oust PM's?

Who said anything about legitimate. We are dealing here with realpolitik and Thaksin must leave politics for good, for the good of his country.

Comparing the US and Thai systems is beyond absurd.

I wasn't intending to compare the US and Thai systems, I was trying to draw a comparision the legitimacy of overthowing an elected head of state in either country. Bush could be argued to fit into the category that you reserve for Hitler & Pol Pot, would he not? So why not support the idea of a coup when someone like him is elected into office?

Maybe you didn't use the term "legitimate" to describe the coup that overthrew Thaksin but you answered a question about whether you condoned military deposing an elected government by replying "not in a real democracy". Were you not meaning to imply that Thailand is not a real democracy so coups are acceptable?

Edited March 8, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

Were you not meaning to imply that Thailand is not a real democracy so coups are acceptable?

Fair enough. I don't see this in a black and white way. I accept that they happen and will continue to happen in Thailand given its current political structure. Of course it is a bad sign that they happen. But bloody civil war, that is a bad sign to a much more serious degree, and trust me, we don't want that here. Thaksin in his current role is clearly riling up the redshirts to get more militant. He is not an admirable figure at this stage in his career. I do think Thais of good will have things they should be fighting for, but fighting a red vs. yellow civil war, I think would be terribly tragic.

Bush could be argued to fit into the category that you reserve for Hitler & Pol Pot, would he not? So why not support the idea of a coup when someone like him is elected into office?

No Bush was not even close to Hitler. You know Gore when he had the election stolen from him in 2000 (don't argue about that, half the country FELT that way and that is the point) could have led a violent struggle against Bush, but he didn't. Many people in their hearts wanted him to, but it would have ended badly and he did the right thing to back off. The US political system is simply more mature and again cannot really be compared to Thailand. But to play that game a little, Gore is a patriot who loves his country more than his own ego, Thaksin is not a real patriot, it is all about HIM.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of Nicaragua, the despised Somoza was deposed, and he ran to some other country, where his enemies followed him to Paraguay and had him assassinated. Trotsky was killed by Lenin's hired assassins in Mexico City. As a friend mentioned to me recently, surely Thailand has its own little elite secret service and assassins.

[Jingthing]

Speaking of Nicaragua, the despised Somoza was deposed, and he ran to some other country, where his enemies followed him and had him assassinated. Trotsky was killed by Lenin's hired assassins in Mexico City. As a friend mentioned to me recently, surely Thailand has its own little elite secret service and assassins.

Such an event would turn Mr. Big into a martyr. Bad idea.

[aussiejosh]

Are you guys suggesting for one second that Thailand's military is up to the standard and ability, let alone the technology (versus the situations counter part at the time in comparison to this hypothetical situation) of the Israeli special forces which conducted that raid? Because that it a laugh.

South America is poor but not as poor and low tech as Uganda was back then, and is probably now. Besides I also doubt Thailand information ministry could handle the logistics of that kind of operation or even have any information further than what they find on a CIA web page (which is very informative).