Taking A Newborn To Australia With Mothers Full Consent

[Pistolbelt]

Ok, first off all, best of luck to Centurian with his Dilema.

Could anyone tell me if this is feasible, or I have been fed a pack of lies.

Thai mother gets pregnant to Ozzie guy. She gives birth and signs over custody to the Ozzy guy, who then takes a relative new-born back to Australia. Mother now believes she has no rights whatsoever to contact her young girl.

What is the nationality status of the newborn? Is this posible or legal?

Thanks,

[Mario2008]

That depends on if the fahter also legalised the child at birth. When married the law presumes the husband is the father, when not married no such presumsion is made and being on the birth certificate is not enough. Simply becasue everybody can be named on the birth certificate. Legalisation in Thailand is doen by having the father register the baby himself at the amphur where the baby is born. You are then the legal father and can get sole costudy over the child.

The mother is still the legal mother, she only can't make decisions for the child and decide for example where the child will live and to which school it will go.

[torrenova]

I wonder what the OP means by the mother signing over custody. Now via a court then there would be no issue I presume but just on a piece of paper ? then I question the legality of the document.

If the OP is wanting to take what I am presuming is his child to Oz, then what about the passports ? Presuming two passports, then he would be in a similar position to Centurion except he would have the consent of the mother. Again, doesn't this just eventually get back to whether immigration want to raise an issue or not ?

[Pistolbelt]

I wonder what the OP means by the mother signing over custody. Now via a court then there would be no issue I presume but just on a piece of paper ? then I question the legality of the document.

If the OP is wanting to take what I am presuming is his child to Oz, then what about the passports ? Presuming two passports, then he would be in a similar position to Centurion except he would have the consent of the mother. Again, doesn't this just eventually get back to whether immigration want to raise an issue or not ?

Thanks for the response so far, first of all just to be clear this is not something I have done or am planning to do, it is something that I am lead to believe has already happened to a female thai friend of mine. As you can probably tell I am rather sceptical as to whether she made the whole lot up or not.

She told me it was a legal paper she signed but did not go into detail about what exactly it stated, so I would assume finding this paper is the first step she needs to take, although I doubt that would be possible.

re passports; The baby was very young. at what age can a child obtain a passport in Thailand?

Personally I cannot see how a father can just take a baby into australia without the baby having a passport, and him having proof of custody. Or as you say, maybe immigration didnt ask too many questions (doesnt sound like ozzie immigration to me)

Anyway, Cheers

[Boo]

The baby would have had to have an Australian passport to enter Australia, the thai passport would not be needed to exit Thailand as the child was born in thailand & presumably the father had the childs birth certificates to prove it.

If it was a court document then it sounds like she signed over full custody to her ex. If he had this document plus an Australian passport & birth certificates then he would have no problem taking the child out of thailand. The mother's rights have been waived. The Father now has full custody & is in charge of all descision making processes for the child.

Forgot to add that with a proper legal custody order the foreign father could apply for ther child to have a thai passport without the mother needing to sign, if he wished to do so.

[Isee]

The baby would have had to have an Australian passport to enter Australia, the thai passport would not be needed to exit Thailand as the child was born in thailand & presumably the father had the childs birth certificates to prove it.

If it was a court document then it sounds like she signed over full custody to her ex. If he had this document plus an Australian passport & birth certificates then he would have no problem taking the child out of thailand. The mother's rights have been waived. The Father now has full custody & is in charge of all descision making processes for the child.

Forgot to add that with a proper legal custody order the foreign father could apply for ther child to have a thai passport without the mother needing to sign, if he wished to do so.

Read the OP again as just about everything you wrote has something wrong with it in one way or another.

To the OP - its feasible, but being an infant, most people will be curious as to where the mother is and with her not being around some would raise their eyebrow to ask further questions and the overzealous would cause some sort of problem.

To add - when I say its feasible - I mean that it is with an Aust passport in hand.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Isee

[Boo]

Read the OP again as just about everything you wrote has something wrong with it in one way or another.

If the mother has given full custody (as the op later stated he thought she had, signed legal documents givign him the child etc) then what is wrong with what I have written?.

If the mother signed away her rights & the father would have had no problem taking the child overseas with the right legal paperwork or getting the child a passport with those documents. he may have been question or even stopped but legally he is in full custody of the child (if that is the court documents the mother signed) & he can take that child wherever he wants.

So please explain to me exactly how everything I have written has something wrong.

[Mario2008]

Read the OP again as just about everything you wrote has something wrong with it in one way or another.

Can you clearify that? What is wrong and why?

[Isee]

I can see you don't like being told you are wrong...but ok, I'll explain a little.

The baby would have had to have an Australian passport to enter Australia, the thai passport would not be needed to exit Thailand as the child was born in thailand & presumably the father had the childs birth certificates to prove it.

Its hard trying to work out exactly what you are saying here. After some time pondering it, I still can't understand anything you say after talking about the child needing an Australian passport. It just doesn't make sense at all and its clear in the OP that the OP is talking about a child born in Thailand. To be picky, the child could enter Australia with a thai passport (and visa) if he wanted to and deal with the citizenship issue later. Realistically though, the father would be better entering the child with an Aust passport.

If it was a court document then it sounds like she signed over full custody to her ex. If he had this document plus an Australian passport & birth certificates then he would have no problem taking the child out of thailand.

Why does he need the birth certificate with him? He would have to produce that to get the Aust passport issued – so what does having the birth certificate add when travelling? Do you carry your birth certificate with you when you travel overseas?? Somebody saying a "legal paper" cannot be assumed to be a "court document". Most people will use that term when signing anything that looks half "legal". Even the OP doesn't know what was signed. OK, yes I know you said "if".....but you then went on to say "it sounds like" blah blah.

The mother's rights have been waived. The Father now has full custody & is in charge of all descision making processes for the child.

Don't know if that is true for Thailand (I'm not a thai lawyer – but I can tell you aren't either) but utter rubbish for an Australian Court. Parents don't have "rights" in the context you are trying to use, an Australian court will with no uncertain terms tell you that its the "child's rights" which are in issue and a child has a right to access to both parents if its in the child's best interest. So technically, the mother could challenge the father removing the child from Thailand/away from her. What she signed could be dismissed without any effort at all especially given that it was shortly after birth (the OP said the child was an infant). The other thing is that there are "daily decisions" and "long term decisions" when dealing with a child and both are treated differently in Aust.

Forgot to add that with a proper legal custody order the foreign father could apply for ther child to have a thai passport without the mother needing to sign, if he wished to do so.

This is irrelevant and in any event what you said could be said to be broadly correct in just about any country. A person in Australia (remember the child is in Aust) who has "custody" (known in Aust as the resident parent) by whatever Court order would still need the signature of the other parent or a Court order that a passport to be issued without the mothers signature (in this case). The point you made is irrelevant because there won't be any desire to get a thai passport issued as the father will be happy with the child only having an Aust passport in the circumstances.

Hope that clears that up for you

[Isee]

Just to add one more thing that is highly likely is that the mother referring to "legal documents" could very well be talking about signing documents to register the birth and get an Aust passport processed and being told anything.

The other thing is if I can forsee your reply argument is that the Aust jurisidiction is relevant to discuss as its most likely that is where the child is. The mother would have to go through the Australian Courts to persue things and that in itself is the reason why most won't pursue the matter as they won't have the resources to chase the father (in this case).

[Boo]

I'm not a thai lawyer

clearly not.

If you unable to understand plain English then I suggest you take a little longer to ponder my posts.

The op gave a very limited amount of information & we can only be guided by what he provided.

The op asked if the father would have trouble removing a small baby from thailand alone without the mother. I gave the situation in which he would not have any trouble, in possension of a court document giving him sole custody, being in possesion of the childs birth certificate & the child having a valid passport to enter Aust. Now as no one can travel without a passport, the only option would be the child getting 1) a thai passport & visa or 2) an australian passport, negating the need for a visa.

I know from expereince that getting a thai passport for an infant is a hassle & needs the help of someone who can read & write thai well & without the relevant document the mother would also need to be present, the op said the child didn't have a passport, so not much of a leap to think the father got one from his own country?!

If you wish to beleive that info is wrong then go ahead but as the mother is in Thailand & the child was born in thailand, then taken out from thailand from an airport in Thailand with (supposedly) thai court papers in the fathers possession then my reply is relevant & correct. What the mother can then do via the Aust courts is a different issue entirely.

[Isee]

I'm not a thai lawyer

clearly not.

If you unable to understand plain English then I suggest you take a little longer to ponder my posts.

The op gave a very limited amount of information & we can only be guided by what he provided.

The op asked if the father would have trouble removing a small baby from thailand alone without the mother. I gave the situation in which he would not have any trouble, in possension of a court document giving him sole custody, being in possesion of the childs birth certificate & the child having a valid passport to enter Aust. Now as no one can travel without a passport, the only option would be the child getting 1) a thai passport & visa or 2) an australian passport, negating the need for a visa.

I know from expereince that getting a thai passport for an infant is a hassle & needs the help of someone who can read & write thai well & without the relevant document the mother would also need to be present, the op said the child didn't have a passport, so not much of a leap to think the father got one from his own country?!

If you wish to beleive that info is wrong then go ahead but as the mother is in Thailand & the child was born in thailand, then taken out from thailand from an airport in Thailand with (supposedly) thai court papers in the fathers possession then my reply is relevant & correct. What the mother can then do via the Aust courts is a different issue entirely.

LOL whatever I'm not going to argue (or point out more things) with you as your posts speak for themselves. What is your hourly rate so I know when I need the services of a thai lawyer

[Boo]

Isee in this part of the forum we try to be civilised & posters are free to help anyone who asks advice. If you disagree that is your perogative, the op will make up their own mind & should take on all advice with the understading that it is being offerred as opinion not fact. Rudeness has no place here. You do not know what my understanding of Thailands child custody law is but as the mother of a thai national I have done my own research

[bridge]

The baby would have had to have an Australian passport to enter Australia, the thai passport would not be needed to exit Thailand as the child was born in thailand & presumably the father had the childs birth certificates to prove it.

If it was a court document then it sounds like she signed over full custody to her ex. If he had this document plus an Australian passport & birth certificates then he would have no problem taking the child out of thailand. The mother's rights have been waived. The Father now has full custody & is in charge of all descision making processes for the child.

Forgot to add that with a proper legal custody order the foreign father could apply for ther child to have a thai passport without the mother needing to sign, if he wished to do so.

Boo,

How did you come to that conclusion?

Regards

bridge

[Boo]

Only on the ops mention that the child didn't have a thai passport

[Isee]

deletd

Edited March 10, 2009 by Isee

[Isee]

Isee in this part of the forum we try to be civilised & posters are free to help anyone who asks advice. If you disagree that is your perogative, the op will make up their own mind & should take on all advice with the understading that it is being offerred as opinion not fact. Rudeness has no place here. You do not know what my understanding of Thailands child custody law is but as the mother of a thai national I have done my own research

Thanks for deleting my previous reply - it seems I don't have any "right" to reply to a mod's post notwithstanding that it had information directly relating to the OP's questions.

[Isee]

Only on the ops mention that the child didn't have a thai passport

Care to quote the OP as to where that is - I can only see where he assumes that no passport is in existence...no mention of a "thai passport".

[Boo]

You have been informed by pm that there is no benefit to to the op or his topic from your petty attempts to hijack this thread & your previous post was removed for the same reason, as you have been informed.

I suggest you provide the op with some links to the relevant laws if you wish to be of help him as you have neither proven your posts nor disproven mine but please refrain from taking out your issues in this topic.

You disagree with my post, ok we got it, try to move on

[Pistolbelt]

Thanks for all the responses, and yes I do take all advice on here as opinion not fact, although generally I have found this forum to be a source of reliable advice.

Anyway first off all it seems to me from what you have written that it is a perfectly plausible story and that is pretty much all I needed. I apologise for the lack of info and detail in the document but as you can probaly understand this is not the mothers favourite subject in the world.

Sounds to me like she signed over custody, he registered the birth and got an australian passport for the newborn, flew back home.

If I get any more info I will post it up,

Thanks again.