Opposition Files Impeachment Motion Against Abhisit

[h90]

The coup was to avoid a bloodshed and than the military refused to kill peaceful demonstrators

So those rioters I saw attacking Police, fighting running battles, driving vehicles into Police with the intent to kill and injure, and taking away and shooting suspected infiltrators were all part of my imagination then?

yes that is only your imagination! All these things have been discussed here many times and they simply didn't happen the way you try to tell.....It was discussed a 100 times here already

That's good to know.

Thailand would be in a civil war by now with embargos from the rest of the world....

Just postponing the inevitable.

you think embargos will come??

So the military did the only right thing.

The military should be answerable to the Government and the electorate. "Doing the right thing" shouldn't be part of the equation. Of course in Thailand the military is only answerable to a single figure, and does as they please as a separate entity with no culpability or responsibility. Their shady and dubious past, even in dealing with their own citizens speaks volumes.

You'd have to be a complete dupe or just a plain old idiot to believe, given their sordid history, that the Thai military ever does what is best for the Thai people.

I wish the Oberkommando would have "Doing the right thing" instead following the Hitler Government. The Thai military did do good things and bad things in the past. As you may recall "Chamlong" one of the key leaders fought against them peacefully.

[h90]

Oh, that's right, the military isn't involved in politics!

This is Thailand, the military have always, and unfortunately, probably always will be, involved in politics. All the people arguing for the purity of Thaksins government are deluding themselves if they think he lasted as long as he did without the support of the military. We all know what happened when he lost that support. At the moment, Abhisit has their support and, as such, has as much right to be the PM as Thaksin did.

The coup was to avoid a bloodshed and than the military refused to kill peaceful demonstrators and recommended instead that the government should resign if they can't handle it.

I think that was very fortune and saved a lot peoples life and for the more greedy farangs: How many tourists would come to Thailand if the Army would have shot with guns into the PAD (and this is seen worldwide together with barking Samak on TV).

Thailand would be in a civil war by now with embargos from the rest of the world....

So the military did the only right thing.

There was another option on the table, that is to neutrelize the zombie leaders (sondhi and chamlong), without their charasmatic and influencial zombie masters the zombies would have suffered the same fate as the red shirts now.

Instead they opened up a pandoras box of problems .

Another option would be stopping abuse of power and corruption.....Sondhi and Chamlong wouldn't have any arguments anymore and the yellows would stop.

[Journalist]

The coup was to avoid a bloodshed and than the military refused to kill peaceful demonstrators and recommended instead that the government should resign if they can't handle it.

Who ordered the army to 'kill peaceful demonstrators'?

I don't recall any impending bloodshed pre-coup. I don't recall any demonstrations threatening national security. Why would you need to kill people if they were being peaceful?

And h90...

Why are you still infatuated with Sondhi - who most intelligent people seem to find a fairly oily, self obsessed wannabe billionaire with a personal grudge. People I know who have worked for him and know the man don't share your enthusiasm

Edited March 11, 2009 by Journalist

[h90]

The coup was to avoid a bloodshed and than the military refused to kill peaceful demonstrators and recommended instead that the government should resign if they can't handle it.

Who ordered the army to 'kill peaceful demonstrators'?

I don't recall any impending bloodshed pre-coup. I don't recall any demonstrations threatening national security. Why would you need to kill people if they were being peaceful?

And h90...

Why are you still infatuated with Sondhi - who most intelligent people seem to find a fairly oily, self obsessed wannabe billionaire with a personal grudge. People I know who have worked for him and know the man don't share your enthusiasm

a) please recall Samak....he told direct what he is planning...."remove them by any means" and the army told more less direct what they think of it.....

Pre-coup, and this can't be proofed right or wrong anymore; Thaksin wanted a bloodshed. Sonthi (the Army Sonthi) told that as reason to act. And considering how clue-less the act on the beginning I tend to believe it. A coup to gain permanent power looks different. But I can't proof that it is true and you can't proof that it is wrong.....

I know several people who do work with Sondhi and love him. The same as you, I don't understand why many women act as a mix of Elvis Pressly fan and Fuehrer-Kult. I don't see people so black/white. Fact is that he is well informed and really know things. Many bizarre statements of him in the past were later proofed to be right.

I think it is perfect as long as other people are in power and he plays the rottweiler who digs out dirt and pressure politicians. I don't want to see him as premier, as well not Chamlong.

[h90]

The coup was to avoid a bloodshed and than the military refused to kill peaceful demonstrators

So those rioters I saw attacking Police, fighting running battles, driving vehicles into Police with the intent to kill and injure, and taking away and shooting suspected infiltrators were all part of my imagination then?

That's good to know.

Thailand would be in a civil war by now with embargos from the rest of the world....

Just postponing the inevitable.

So the military did the only right thing.

The military should be answerable to the Government and the electorate. "Doing the right thing" shouldn't be part of the equation. Of course in Thailand the military is only answerable to a single figure, and does as they please as a separate entity with no culpability or responsibility. Their shady and dubious past, even in dealing with their own citizens speaks volumes.

You'd have to be a complete dupe or just a plain old idiot to believe, given their sordid history, that the Thai military ever does what is best for the Thai people.

Small add:

You know who has the Oberkommando over the military in Germany and Austria? It is the President, so it is not different than in Thailand.

[tornado40]

Democracy Let the people vote and he and his party will be out in the blink of an eye that's why he wont hold a General election he knows what will happen

No democracy in Thailand right now

Same as the UK with McBrown?

[Plus]

Without the coup Thaksin would still be ruling the country and anti-Thaksin movement would have been crashed.

Like it or not, but the army was a guarantor of stability duing these past couple of years, forcing restraints on police and the government.

PAD has campaigned for only 190 days, the rest of the time the country was relatively peaceful. There would have been no chance of that at all if Thaksin was still in power.

[Ricardo]

There was another option on the table, that is to neutrelize the zombie leaders (sondhi and chamlong), without their charasmatic and influencial zombie masters the zombies would have suffered the same fate as the red shirts now.

Instead they opened up a pandoras box of problems .

It is indeed to Thailand's credit, that despite Thaksin's frequent claims of assassination-plots, neither he nor the others you mention have been neutralised. Only a few ordinary protesters. IMHO this is better than all-out civil-war on the streets.

[hammered]

This censure motion is not a serious attempt to impeach Aphisit, all Peua Thai are trying to do is cast a few doubts, it's not easy for them with the 2,000 baht distribution happening soon, plus the annual transfer of civil servants.

I expect to see the police chief shunted aside soon. In addition up to 30 Peua Thai MPs may desert to Pumjai as well as the rest of Puae Paendin and Sanoh's group.

Hard times for Peua Thai who still can't find a proper leader. And the tamed streetdog says he'll be home by the end of the year!! LOL

Thank you for a concise and accurate summary of what is going on in a thread littered with the same off topic debate and rants that seem to take over lost politcal threads.

Has anyone stretched the tamed street dog to neutered street dog yet?

[jayboy]

Without the coup Thaksin would still be ruling the country and anti-Thaksin movement would have been crashed.

Like it or not, but the army was a guarantor of stability duing these past couple of years, forcing restraints on police and the government.

PAD has campaigned for only 190 days, the rest of the time the country was relatively peaceful. There would have been no chance of that at all if Thaksin was still in power.

It's very easy to make comments like this, much more difficult to prove.There's a plausible case to be made that Thaksin could have been defeated democratically, or at least compelled to be less of a meglomaniac and perhaps more collegiate.We will never know.The often made assumption that the anti-Thaksin movement would have been crushed is pure hypothesis, and in many ways the evidence points the other way.I agree the army has been a calming influence and helped with stability.But that's quite a different issue from excusing the criminality of the coup, and for that matter justifying the military's political influence.The excesses of the PAD damaged the country at least as much as anything that happened under Thaksin.

[hammered]

Without the coup Thaksin would still be ruling the country and anti-Thaksin movement would have been crashed.

Like it or not, but the army was a guarantor of stability duing these past couple of years, forcing restraints on police and the government.

PAD has campaigned for only 190 days, the rest of the time the country was relatively peaceful. There would have been no chance of that at all if Thaksin was still in power.

It's very easy to make comments like this, much more difficult to prove.There's a plausible case to be made that Thaksin could have been defeated democratically, or at least compelled to be less of a meglomaniac and perhaps more collegiate.We will never know.The often made assumption that the anti-Thaksin movement would have been crushed is pure hypothesis, and in many ways the evidence points the other way.I agree the army has been a calming influence and helped with stability.But that's quite a different issue from excusing the criminality of the coup, and for that matter justifying the military's political influence.The excesses of the PAD damaged the country at least as much as anything that happened under Thaksin.

There may be some truth to that in terms of international reputation which is sad considering the thousands of illegal deaths associated with Thaksin that seem to be ignored by so many locally or internationally when the debate is about democracy. I am sure you are not one by the way.

[Plus]

There's a plausible case to be made that Thaksin could have been defeated democratically, or at least compelled to be less of a meglomaniac and perhaps more collegiate.

I see absolutely no way Thaksin being defeated democratically. Even without him his proxy party managed to hold on to power for almost a year before beeing booted out by courts. There's zero chance of that happening with Thaksin actually in charge.

With Thaksin in power there's be no AEC investigations. All charges for his past crimes wouldn't even exist. The court wouldn't have guts to disband TRT either. Thaksin and co would have acted with absolute impunity.

The military wasn't playing its own tune, btw, they simply projected the power from people both above and below, while taking all the flak.

[jayboy]

There's a plausible case to be made that Thaksin could have been defeated democratically, or at least compelled to be less of a meglomaniac and perhaps more collegiate.

I see absolutely no way Thaksin being defeated democratically. Even without him his proxy party managed to hold on to power for almost a year before beeing booted out by courts. There's zero chance of that happening with Thaksin actually in charge.

With Thaksin in power there's be no AEC investigations. All charges for his past crimes wouldn't even exist. The court wouldn't have guts to disband TRT either. Thaksin and co would have acted with absolute impunity.

The military wasn't playing its own tune, btw, they simply projected the power from people both above and below, while taking all the flak.

I'm afraid the rather obvious retort is the inconvenient reality that many Thais, possibly a majority, perceived Thaksin/TRT and proxy parties as the best bet and voted accordingly.Some say this is because they were "bought", a piece of silliness easily refuted.I believe their loyalty was because Thaksin is a modern politician (as Abhisit recently pointed out himself) taking up the cause of those long neglected and patronised.Yes he worked within the tainted network system but so does Abhisit.

Thaksin major crimes have not yet been raised against him.The charges actually made were legitimate enough but trivial in the scheme of things.It would take someone with a very straight face to say the Thai courts weren't enlisted on the side of Thaksin's pursuers.I don't buy the Al Capone (convicted through a trivial tax offence) argument.Exactly why haven't the drug war deaths and Tak Bai crimes been invoked?

You can't argue that civil society, democratic politics, persuasion wouldn't have worked because it wasn't tried.Rightly or wrongly it looks to the world as if vested interests intervened to overturn the Thai peoples wishes.(qf CIA in Allende's Peru).

The popular pressure from above and below you refer that the army "reflects" is straight out of the coupmakers playbook.By taking this seriously you simply show where you stand. as is of course your right.But don't expect any dispassionate observer to take it seriously.

[Plus]

Regardless of Thaksin's popularity and electoral legitimacy, he committed enough serious crimes against democracy to be banned from politics for life, if not jailed.

That was a travesty of justice that PAD and its supporters wasn't going to tolerate and Thaksin wasn't going to admit or correct.

The excesses of last year protests were examples of how far situation could potentially deteriorate. You think occupying govt house was bad - try to think how Thaksin would dislodge the protesters if he was in charge of the army and the police. Try to imagine bloodbath at the airport.

[Plus]

The popular pressure from above and below you refer that the army "reflects" is straight out of the coupmakers playbook.

No, interference from above is straight from red speeches, and support from the public is straight from the media coverage.

Without broad support the coup wouldn't have survived.

[hammered]

Apparently the PTP have delayed their submission of the censure debate. No doubt they want to make sure none of the ministers ahve a clue what they are going to be censured on and hence no time to prepare.

Or it could just be that the PTP are utterly disorganized or it could just be they are playing for maximum publicity or it just could be they dont want to have any serious news to take away front page news space form Thaksin's load of repeated invective and self praise which I guess he has completed delivery of by now

[jayboy]

You say tomayto I say tomato.Not sure much more mileage in this discussion.Still I can't help smiling at the outrage we're supposed to feel (Thaksin cracking down bloodily on airport demonstrators) at events that never took place except in enflamed imaginations.Reality is -for both Reds and Yellows to reflect on - is that the level of violence in the last few years has been thankfully very small.

[Plus]

the level of violence in the last few years has been thankfully very small

And credits for that should go mostly to the army that refused to get involved and kept both sides in check.

>>>>

The coup happened just days before PAD was resuming their demos, there are no grounds to hope that they would have resolved their issues with Thaksin peacefully.

[h90]

You say tomayto I say tomato.Not sure much more mileage in this discussion.Still I can't help smiling at the outrage we're supposed to feel (Thaksin cracking down bloodily on airport demonstrators) at events that never took place except in enflamed imaginations.Reality is -for both Reds and Yellows to reflect on - is that the level of violence in the last few years has been thankfully very small.

well October 7 was not very small with 500 people in hospital, several limbs blown away.

It could have been worse but it is nothing to be thankfully about.

[hammered]

It seems PTP in their latest effort to discredit Abhisit have exposed a letter written by an Oxford lecturer "opposing" Abhisit's speech. Interestingly the dude has spent time on NM to state he doesnt oppose the speech, that the letter was a private letter penned very quickly to another college representative, that the letter was "leaked" by Prachathai (without permission) etc

Seems with the censure debate not even finaliseed some straw clutching is going on in attempts to discredit by any means.

[ballpoint]

Democracy Let the people vote and he and his party will be out in the blink of an eye that's why he wont hold a General election he knows what will happen

No democracy in Thailand right now

Same as the UK with McBrown?

We keep hearing about democracy from the Thaksinistas, but no one has ever given their definition of it. It seems that they all have this rosey view of "one man, one vote", without seeming to realise that for a democracy to work properly there must be a series of safeguards, not least of which, an independant judiciary with the teeth to fairly try and convict anyone and everyone. This is obviously lacking in Thailand, and it seems as if the military has, rightly or wrongly, traditionally taken on that role, either at its own initiative, or that of its "master's". In fact, you could well argue that the military has never gone far enough in this role, prefering to kill innocent people and let the very leaders they are overthrowing escape to comfortable lives in or out of Thailand, while hanging on to their ill gotten gains, their crimes against humanity forgotten. No one of importance has ever been imprisoned following a coup, despite the charges laid against them to justify it. This is of course due to the danger of setting a precedent, in that by doing so, the coup makers themselves can expect to be treated lightly in any further shift of power. Obviously, providing more argument for a judiciary with teeth. It is important to remember, and conveniently forgotten by the Thaksinistas, that in a properly working democracy, their blue eyed boy would never had been made PM in the first place. Even ignoring the charges of vote buying, he would have failed the asset concealment test right at the start. Into his term of rule, it was obvious that he was twisting democracy to suit his own wants, and I guarantee that, again in a properly working democracy, he would have been ejected from office, if not imprisoned for corruption, his incitement of murder and his covering up of the bird flu epidemic. You can scream "unfair" all you like, but until that set of safeguards is in place, Thailand will never be a proper democracy.

And, in reply to your last comment, you therefore believe that, in between elections, there is no democracy anywhere in the world?

[Journalist]

"Even ignoring the charges of vote buying"

How many votes were paid for in cash? Is it a million? ten million? I guess estimates must have been made. Interesting to know the rough number or guesstimate.

My guess.....no, actually, dunno. Hundreds of thousands? Low millions perhaps?

Edited March 12, 2009 by Journalist

[Koo82]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

[ballpoint]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups and politicians are forced to resign or arrested if they abuse their power. Clearly, neither of these are satisfied in Thailand, therefore Thailand does not have a democracy, and never has had one. Not even when Thaksin was PM. However, taking the "this is Thailand" definition of democracy, Abhisit has as much right to be PM as Thaksin was, both were elected into parliament by the people, both were nominated for PM by the parliament. The reds also have as much right to protest as the PAD did. If they overstep the mark (no pun intended) however, the government is within its rights to control them. The army certainly has the power to "make another coup", but really has no justification to do so at the moment, and it would serve no useful purpose. That doesn't mean they would never do so though, which is why, in another post, I used the term unfortunate to describe the likely continuing role in politics that the army will have. I would rather see a free and fair judiciary.

Edited to add: One person, one vote is rather meaningless when either the Army can step in at any time they don't like the way things are going, or those elected abuse the system unchecked.

Edited March 12, 2009 by ballpoint

[Siripon]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

Democracy also means accountability, transparency, things Thaksin refused to accept, allowing no debate in Parliament about the sale to Temasek, castrating all the independent organisations. His authoritarian, divisive leadership was the reason for the first coup since 1991 and its large support from the middle class.

Your scenario of a coup against Aphisit is impossible because he's not a threat to the country's unity or peace.

Let the wandering tamed streetdog come back and enter the defendant's box to hear the other 6 cases waiting for it.

Does it dare?

[jayboy]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

Democracy also means accountability, transparency, things Thaksin refused to accept, allowing no debate in Parliament about the sale to Temasek, castrating all the independent organisations. His authoritarian, divisive leadership was the reason for the first coup since 1991 and its large support from the middle class.

Your scenario of a coup against Aphisit is impossible because he's not a threat to the country's unity or peace.

Let the wandering tamed streetdog come back and enter the defendant's box to hear the other 6 cases waiting for it.

Does it dare?

You are right that democracy is much more than having fair elections.You mention transparency and accountability which are of course essential.Thaksin as you again rightly suggest played fast and loose with the democratic infrastructure so to speak.The efforts of civil society and the democratic opposition to curb his excesses was entirely justified.All reasonable people can agree on this.

Where you have gone off the rails, along I agree with many of the country's middle class, is to connive at a cure which was worse than the disease.Of all the constituent elements of democracy the rule of law is perhaps the most critical of all.The generals who launched the coup effectively drove a coach and horses through the painfully slow but real democratic progress Thailand had made.What is more they, unwittingly I concede, damaged the institution they professed to respect above all else.The results are with us now.

[Old Man River]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

Democracy also means accountability, transparency, things Thaksin refused to accept, allowing no debate in Parliament about the sale to Temasek, castrating all the independent organisations. His authoritarian, divisive leadership was the reason for the first coup since 1991 and its large support from the middle class.

Your scenario of a coup against Aphisit is impossible because he's not a threat to the country's unity or peace.

Let the wandering tamed streetdog come back and enter the defendant's box to hear the other 6 cases waiting for it.

Does it dare?

Where you have gone off the rails, along I agree with many of the country's middle class, is to connive at a cure which was worse than the disease.Of all the constituent elements of democracy the rule of law is perhaps the most critical of all.The generals who launched the coup effectively drove a coach and horses through the painfully slow but real democratic progress Thailand had made.What is more they, unwittingly I concede, damaged the institution they professed to respect above all else.The results are with us now.

From a purely democratic standpoint, a coup is unacceptable. OK, agreed, but what do you mean when you say the results are with us now? The current government did not seize power by a coup. All MP's in the current government were elected. Those barred from politics were barred by the courts, which follow the rule of law you talk about. How has the rule of law and elected MP's damaged democracy?

[h90]

Army duty is to protect the country, not to make coups.

Until people can tell us to accept another form of government, we are now 1 person 1 vote. In a country having true democracy, the Army don't make coups.

End of this month, the reds may have another rally to protest against Abhisit government. How do you think if the reds block Suvarnabhumi and won't be punished months after that? If so, what do you think if the Army make a coup and Abhisit and this whole government will lose all positions? How do you think if Army will cooperate with Peua Thai Party and all the reds to appoint a group of 9 persons all from the red side, and another group to draft a new Constitution Law, and Abhisit will be wrong by one or some reasons (such as hugging Newin which is more reasonable than cooking like Khun Samak), and he must live outside Thailand? Maybe Abhisit can phone in when the PAD and Democrat Sor Sor members hold rallies.

Not fair? If they don't like that, why do they think the reds must like?

Well if hundreds of thousand red shirts would block the airports and every night a few get murdered by the government I would completely agree if the army would stage a coup and make an government for 1 year.

Different than Abhisit, Thaksin has 100 different cases pending and in a good part of them everything is very clear. Most people working in business know themself first or second hand from some massive corruption of the Thaksin clan. But I don't know of any corruption done by Abhisit. But I agree that this Newin hugging is is disgusting!

That cooking show of Samak was clearly braking the constitution. But I agree that it is a bit funny to loose because of this.

[peecee]

The army didn't get involved in the occupation of the parliment & airports because they new the outcome would be the downfall of the government & their opportunity to install a puppet who was then instructed to appoint yellow shirt (coup) leaders to power. In Thailand the military and judiciary are filled with nepotism, trace back the ancistory of many senior officers & judges and you find they are related to the many offspring of minor concubines from past rulers. Many of which are found jobs where they achieve status far above their ability.

As for coupes, they have been happening since 1932. That was supposed to be the start of democracy with a new constitution and a forward thinking Monarch giving power to the people. The military however took a different veiw. Take for instance Field Marshal Phibun Songkhram who aligned Thailand with Japan in 1942, the only other country in asia to join the Axis; he thought he new best. There's nothing new nowadays, whenever goverment moves towards social reform then there's another coup!

Edited March 12, 2009 by peecee

[Plus]

The coup restored the rule of law that was non-existent under Thaksin. On paper the country was under 1997 constitution but in practice it had turned into a lawless state with, may I remind you, legally, no senate, no parliament, and interim government that overstayed its term, and if you looked beyond just the letter of the law, it was even worse.

Generals, on the other hand, established clear rules, responsibilities and timetables that they themselves followed very strictly. Finally those in power subjected themselves to the rule of law. The big picture had changed.

You could argue that generals weren't legally accountable to anyone but their own promise to the people, but, in practice that kept them in line a lot better than any constityution check and balance mechanism under Thaksin and his proxy governments.