Opposition Files Impeachment Motion Against Abhisit

[Koo82]

Chalerm is not Pheu Thai's party leader and does not hold the official position of opposition leader. However, Pheu Thai nominated him as its replacement prime minister in case Abhisit fails to get enough votes in the upcoming censure debate.

He admitted yesterday that Pheu Thai might be "a bit clumsy" as an opposition party.

"People elected us to become a government party, not an opposition party. We may look a bit clumsy because we are not good at being in opposition. I believe we won't be in the opposition for too long. If there is an election, we will return as the government," Chalerm said.

- The Nation -

[Koo82]

Also this week, the National Anti-Corruption Commission's legal team would submit a report on whether Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva broke anti-graft laws by sending short messages to people's mobile phones soon after assuming office, without paying for them, NACC spokesman Klanarong Chantik said yesterday.

Article 103 prohibits state officials from accepting a gift or any benefit with a value exceeding Bt3,000.

- The Nation -

[Sandstone Art]

Wonder if Thaksin ever read here.

He will be so glad to have some supporters.

How much he pay per post for positive messages ??

[animatic]

One slight hitch in the lemming parade.

Abhisit was not yet PM when that SMS went out,

and even if it WAS considered a gift,

he was NOT IN OFFICE YET.

As nit picking a point as the one that says he got a gift.

IIRC the telephonbe companies were told to do it.

and never thought to send a bill, but could have.

And still can send a bill, since it was lost on some ones desk

and misplaced over the New Years holiday..

oops found it.

This dog don't hunt.

[slimdog]

One slight hitch in the lemming parade.

Abhisit was not yet PM when that SMS went out,

and even if it WAS considered a gift,

he was NOT IN OFFICE YET.

As nit picking a point as the one that says he got a gift.

IIRC the telephonbe companies were told to do it.

and never thought to send a bill, but could have.

And still can send a bill, since it was lost on some ones desk

and misplaced over the New Years holiday..

oops found it.

This dog don't hunt.

Just for info:

The sms messages were sent out on 18th December, 24 hours after HM officially endorsed Abhisit Vejjajiva as the Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand. So article 103 of the NCCC Act is applicable.

As the Government had not been formed, then it is also possible to state that the gift was also to the Democrat Party itself as the information (if any) received was to get a demographic profile of users which went to the Democrat Party officials, in which case it could also be in violation of the Organic Act on Political parties if no receipt was issued to the Donors within 7 days.

After all a Democrat MP publically stated:

MP Sirichok Sopha, a close aide of the PM, says the messages were sent out to encourage public participation. "Cellphones allow us to reach people in all sectors, regardless of their gender and age," he says.

Plus, he says, the postal codes will help the Democrat Party identify the clusters of Abhisit supporters.

source: http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/12/19/cove...rstory_5184.php

So for the moment I will say "woof woof"

[monkfish]

One slight hitch in the lemming parade.

Abhisit was not yet PM when that SMS went out,

and even if it WAS considered a gift,

he was NOT IN OFFICE YET.

As nit picking a point as the one that says he got a gift.

IIRC the telephonbe companies were told to do it.

and never thought to send a bill, but could have.

And still can send a bill, since it was lost on some ones desk

and misplaced over the New Years holiday..

oops found it.

This dog don't hunt.

Do anti corruption laws only apply to PM's?

[Insight]

Chalerm is not Pheu Thai's party leader and does not hold the official position of opposition leader. However, Pheu Thai nominated him as its replacement prime minister in case Abhisit fails to get enough votes in the upcoming censure debate.

He admitted yesterday that Pheu Thai might be "a bit clumsy" as an opposition party.

"People elected us to become a government party, not an opposition party. We may look a bit clumsy because we are not good at being in opposition. I believe we won't be in the opposition for too long. If there is an election, we will return as the government," Chalerm said.

- The Nation -

Can you explain why you're highlighting the name of the party in bold, and no other parts of your text?

I've seen this tactic used before with posts, and it's not to add emphasis to other humans

[hammered]

The reds are not fighting for only Khun Thaksin.

There are 3 kinds of political parties: one is to serve the rich, one is for the poor and the 3rd one changes their supports to which every party who is winning. Political games are benefit games. Who give benefits to us, they win. A party wants to be government because they want to earn, not only to serve public.

Politicians can change their minds. No reason to fight for one particular politician.

The rich has been rich for 70 years if not 700 years and the poor are still poor. We did not pay attention to politics in the past. Reason: who ever was PM, things were still the same. One day a man named Thaksin came and made a difference.

He did not lose an election. He was down because of a coup. He said if Thailand is good after he's gone, he will be happy. But Thailand did not go ahead when the Army was government. Those rich are still rich.

Then election time came. Their side won and they had Khun Samak as PM. This man was down because of the funniest reason in this century: cooking.

Then another man from the party who does good things for them, the poor, became PM. This man never has a chance to sit in his office. He has gone again. PAD thought they did their duty. In fact, Khun Somchai did not go down because of PAD.

We know if we don't have a true democracy, anyone coming up from the red side will be down for whatever reason and anyone from the yellow side will serve the rich only.

However we still did not come out from home.

Until the PAD killed people, made messes in so many occasions, and finally camped in 2 airports in Bangkok, and they are still out there until today,

Until some reds were caught for throwing stones and eggs and were charged as fast,

Until we know that those who slept in Government House for months are still setting up concerts here and there and traveling to USA,

Until we know that they only had invitation letters calling them to meet police and they bargained they will meet police 25 days later, and no one dares to deny that,

Until we know that someone's wife bought a land on the top of a mountain is ok and someone else's wife bought a land with no fault and husband must go to jail 2 years,

Until the whole system is changed after the coup 2006 and one side can do whatever and one side cannot,

Then we know we must fight for our own lives. We don't fight for a party or a person.

If we still cannot cut those behind Abhisit, we still fight.

If Khun Thaksin changes his mind and does what Abhisit is doing now, we will throw him out. We will not stick to one person. People can change.

Don't you see, it's not what you think the reds or yellows are for, or what I think the reds or yellows are for, that will determine the future of the country, it's what the majority of the people in the provinces think they're for. In the TRT days, Thaksin had the support of the traditionally voted for blocs in the Northeast. Now, he's lost Newin, and all those who mindlessly do and believe as Newin says. It now appears that someone is telling those people the one thing that is guaranteed to get them riled, that Thaksin is anti monarchy. Again, it doesn't matter a fetid dingo's kidney if me and you and a dog named Boo know it not to be true, it's what they believe that matters, and they are starting to believe it, because Newin says it's so. If this propaganda spreads, your precious red shirts will be limited to a few people from Bangkok, and they'll be fighting a lot of angry Isaan farmers. And all of you who argue that democracy is just a matter of one person, one vote, might be forced to consider a change in thinking when the shoe is on the other foot (or totally off the foot and thrown at Thaksin).

What you highlight here has been something that has worried me for a while. There could at some point be a horrible vengeance on red shirts and not by the authorities. Some very dangerous games are being played, and lets not forget red shirt Giles has planted his standard.

[Journalist]

I thought Abhisit did a terrific job at his Oxford engagement. (Much better than his BBC interview on monday)

If he practises what he preaches, and it isn't all just empty political rhetoric - then he may indeed be the last hope of Thailand to pull its socks up.

[hammered]

I thought Abhisit did a terrific job at his Oxford engagement. (Much better than his BBC interview on monday)

If he practises what he preaches, and it isn't all just empty political rhetoric - then he may indeed be the last hope of Thailand to pull its socks up.

We may never get to know. Even if he wants to do what he says the economy is going to suck up every skill and resource of any government and all governments world wide will be judged purely on this. We are entering a time internationally when little attention is going to be paid to any kind of human rights abuse and when the politcal models of command economies may appear more appealing than open democraices as command economies respond far quicker to crises and didnt lead to the world problems.

Where the economic problems leave the world politcally will be interesting as they add to the debate of crisis in democracy that had started several years ago. Ceratinly it is highly likely the free market capitalist unipolar world we know has gone but what model replaces it is still up in the air.

Where and what Abhisit or whoever succeeds him leads Thailand will be very much in this world context.

[SpoliaOpima]

well said, Koo82.

Yes .... if you share the same untruths and unsupportable generalisations.

unfortunately it is like in the bible when jesus was advised not to cast pearls before swine.

One man's pearls are another man's swine droppings.

[hammered]

Avudh has a new blog entry up at:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/topboot/2009/03/17/entry-1

It touches on a Newin-Snoh-Pracha alliance developing linking it to the decision of their oppositon parties not to support the censure. Interesting read in its entirety as it covers a lot more ground imho so I wont copy an extract.

[Siripon]

The reds are not fighting for only Khun Thaksin.

There are 3 kinds of political parties: one is to serve the rich, one is for the poor and the 3rd one changes their supports to which every party who is winning. Political games are benefit games. Who give benefits to us, they win. A party wants to be government because they want to earn, not only to serve public.

Politicians can change their minds. No reason to fight for one particular politician.

The rich has been rich for 70 years if not 700 years and the poor are still poor. We did not pay attention to politics in the past. Reason: who ever was PM, things were still the same. One day a man named Thaksin came and made a difference.

He did not lose an election. He was down because of a coup. He said if Thailand is good after he's gone, he will be happy. But Thailand did not go ahead when the Army was government. Those rich are still rich.

Then election time came. Their side won and they had Khun Samak as PM. This man was down because of the funniest reason in this century: cooking.

Then another man from the party who does good things for them, the poor, became PM. This man never has a chance to sit in his office. He has gone again. PAD thought they did their duty. In fact, Khun Somchai did not go down because of PAD.

We know if we don't have a true democracy, anyone coming up from the red side will be down for whatever reason and anyone from the yellow side will serve the rich only.

However we still did not come out from home.

Until the PAD killed people, made messes in so many occasions, and finally camped in 2 airports in Bangkok, and they are still out there until today,

Until some reds were caught for throwing stones and eggs and were charged as fast,

Until we know that those who slept in Government House for months are still setting up concerts here and there and traveling to USA,

Until we know that they only had invitation letters calling them to meet police and they bargained they will meet police 25 days later, and no one dares to deny that,

Until we know that someone's wife bought a land on the top of a mountain is ok and someone else's wife bought a land with no fault and husband must go to jail 2 years,

Until the whole system is changed after the coup 2006 and one side can do whatever and one side cannot,

Then we know we must fight for our own lives. We don't fight for a party or a person.

If we still cannot cut those behind Abhisit, we still fight.

If Khun Thaksin changes his mind and does what Abhisit is doing now, we will throw him out. We will not stick to one person. People can change.

The TRT cabinets contained some of the richest names in Thailand, ie Pracha, owner of Channel 3, Suriya, etc, I haven't seen any of them set up any foundations to help the poor.

[animatic]

24 hours after, I remembered 24 hours before.

I don't see how zipcodes can be assumed from cellphones.

A public outreach for feedback from a new government in waiting

never seemed like a negative thing to me, seemed a very positive thing.

It was done using publically allocated air waves,

it need not be seen as a billable favor,

but a public service from public concessionaires.

All it takes is a bill to appear, appropriately dated

and net 180 days terms for payment.

Case closed.

[stumonster]

How about if Isaan voters were given by parties representing the urban intelligensia various pretty things for their vote - not cash- but beads, shiny metal buttons, hand mirrors, inexpensive necklaces, silk ribbons, strong liquor, ...and for village headmen, guns with the secret of 'man's red fire'

Would that consititute buying their vote - as its not cash.

with discount cards for Siam Paragon and Posiden and some special whitening cream they might well be able to maintain a majority.

[sriracha john]

Chalerm: the rescheduling of the debate dates is good

Head of Puea Thai Party MPs, Chalerm Yoobamrung, claimed the rescheduling of the debate was good as the Opposition already had all the information against the government.

Chalerm said the proposal of the Opposition Whip’s Chairman Witthaya Buranasiri to move the debate to the original dates was reasonable as normally two weeks would be needed in formulating topics to be debated.

However, he said, the House Speaker would not reschedule the debate dates as proposed. In his view, the rescheduling of the debate to this week was good as he was ready and had adequate evidence to topple the Abhisit administration.

Chalerm also challenged the Democrat Party not to use its administrative power to intervene with state officials who gave information to the Opposition and added there would be references to other persons in the debate.

- ThaiNews / 2009-03-17

=

Edited March 21, 2009 by sbk

[sriracha john]

========================================================

Opposition wants debate delayed

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 18/03/2009 at 11:55 AM

The opposition on Wednesday asked the government to postpone and extend the no-confidence debate set for Thursday and Friday this week, but it is unlikely the request will be granted.

The Chief Whips for the opposition and government met at the parliament. The discussed the possibility of postponing the censure debate until next week, and of extending it from two to three days.

Government Chief Whip Chinavorn Boonyakait said a postponement was unlikely because House Speaker Chai Chidchob had already informed everyone of the dates. Members needed at least three-days advance notice of any change.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...ure-debate-time

[sriracha john]

PTP is redefining the definition of the word

d-i-s-a-r-r-a-y

[animatic]

PTP is redefining the definition of the word

d-i-s-a-r-r-a-y

From disaarray to dishabille!

Naked ambition,

and nothing of substance to put on the debate docket.

Stall, stall, we might find SOMETHING...

[hammered]

PTP were planning to make sure their censure debate and the red rally run one after the other and cause as many problems for the government as possible. The government not being stupid rumbled the plan and moved everything up casuing the red rally to have to be moved to an undetermined day sometime next week. Now they are desperately trying to make sure their two events still go hand in glove.

Nice politcal manouver again by the government side.

Be interesting to see if the PTP actually say anything about government performance or it is just a load of ancient history as being touted right now. I note a certain company is rumoured to have a team of lawyers ready to sue anyone who says anything factually wrong about them. Could be a good laugh. Maybe someone should give Chalerm a couple of bottles of whisky before he starts his diatribe.

The new stimulus package with a mega-tranche going to transport should ensure coalition stability for a while as well as demoralise PTP even further, or at least those parts not already having decided to join Newin as soon as the house is disolved. Could be the mega-stimulus pressages and end of year election or at least one timed for when it all impacts.

[slimdog]

24 hours after, I remembered 24 hours before.

I don't see how zipcodes can be assumed from cellphones.

A public outreach for feedback from a new government in waiting

never seemed like a negative thing to me, seemed a very positive thing.

It was done using publically allocated air waves,

it need not be seen as a billable favor,

but a public service from public concessionaires.

All it takes is a bill to appear, appropriately dated

and net 180 days terms for payment.

Case closed.

Abhisit was endorsed by the King on 17th December 2008

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7787505.stm

The SMS message was sent on the 18th December 2008

source: http://bangkokpost.com/191208_News/19Dec2008_news04.php

The Message Read:

"I am your new PM. I would like to invite you to help our country pull out of the crisis. If you are interested in receiving my messages, please send your five-digit postal code to 9191."

source:http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/12/19/coverstory/coverstory_5184.php

The Message is alleged (By PTP) to have cost concession holders B 150 Million

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/30091616.html

Anyone who responded had to pay a fee Bt 3.00, but that earnings by the phone companies was offset by a new message from Abhisit reading:

"I am Abhisit Vejjajiva. Please accept my thanks. I will be in touch with you shortly"

source:http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/12/19/coverstory/coverstory_5184.php

Whilst the airwaves belong to the Public, they are Public companies that have the legal right to utilise the different frequencies, and pay a considerable amount of money for this right. For this reason both the Office of the Prime Minister and the Democrat Party (As well as all Political parties) are legally allowed to reclaim from the Public purse the legitimate costs of Phone calls, Fax's even SMS's. Meaning, they get a bill, they pay it, then present the receipt to the relevent authority for the costs involved.

There are many laws to prevent abuse of power by government officials. To the best of my knowledge they don't say, "Give us free phone calls and then present us with a bill if anyone asks....."

[animatic]

I will conceed the timing issue.

So you figure that these spam messages we get regularly on the

phones as being billed at 150 million baht per. Highly unlikely.

These messages use minuscule bandwidth,

and small companies try them just to sell ringtones and mini-games.

This cost per is ridiculously over priced. Hyperbole.

So if earnings were also offset, then they broke even.

One person at one computer could send these messages out to a whole network

the bandwidth is minor, kids waste more than that just chatting daily on their lunch money.

Tempest in a teapot, trying to look like a tempest.

Any PM can use the public airwaves to speak to the populace if he sees a need to.

Edited March 18, 2009 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Puea Thai appears to have little firepower

By: ANUCHA CHAROENPO

Published: 19/03/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

The opposition Puea Thai Party's two-day no-confidence debate starting today raises questions about how effective it will be because of a dearth of powerful debaters.

The government brought the debate forward a week from March 26 to sidestep a demonstration by Puea Thai's red-shirted supporters. The voting will take place on Saturday.

Puea Thai MPs will perform their role as the opposition in the House for the first time after administering the country under their previous banners, the Thai Rak Thai and the People Power Parties. The two parties were banned in separate electoral fraud cases.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1358...ittle-firepower

Edited March 19, 2009 by sbk

[hammered]

Censure debates are always good for politcal drama usually well overplayed by every politcal analyst and pundit, so we should enjoy ouselves for a few days. However, censure debates rarely result in anything worse than a cabinet reshuffle even if that even when strong evidence is produced. We remain to see what Chalerm et al produce but unless they have something better than leaked, which is possible, then they wont cause much trouble for the government.

Coalition governments in Thailand collapse when it is in the politcal interests of one of the coalition members to leave for politcal advantage. It is highly unlikely that is the case right now, and short of an really irrefutable and explosive allegation with 100% proof that is credible to the person on the street, we will see the fireworks and then it will be business as usual.

[sriracha john]

Bangkok Post » Poll

Would Chalerm Yoobamrung make a better PM than Abhisit Vejjajiva?

Yes - 24.7%

No - 70.5%

http://www.bangkokpost.com/poll/1288/chalerm-yubamrung

[Insight]

The "yes" vote looks a bit high to me...

[animatic]

3-6% margin of sampling error on good professional polls.

The polls they do here tend to by 5-8% margins of error.

Total above is 95.2

so is there 4.8% of unintelligible or irrelevant answers unaccounted for?

As to the question would Chalerm be a better PM than Abhisit.

Can you imagine Hun Sen and Chalerm negotiating?

Gordon Brown and Chalerm....

Bull in a china shop, with little economic credentials.

But lots of strong arm style puyai history.

Samak two redux,

A mental health, stress test for the whole country.

Edited March 19, 2009 by animatic

[Steve2UK]

ASK THE EDITORS

Democrats will survive vote, but...

By Tulsathit Taptim

[email protected]

The Democrats should comfortably win the censure vote tomorrow, but unless they come up with convincing information to counter Chalerm Yoobamrung's allegations, that could mean they will get away with murder.

Make no mistake. This "illegal donations" scandal is rather the tip of an iceberg than a shocking exposure, and it's worth noticing that the charges of underground sponsorship were coming from Pheu Thai MPs of all people. But thanks to Chalerm's clear-cut presentation this will remain a thorn in the Democrats' side in the foreseeable future.

Article 51 of the Political Party Act prohibits reception of covert gifts, whereas Article 62 outlaws misuse of subsidised money and dishonest reports concerning political subsidies. Some of those offences can lead to party dissolution.

It's a smart move by Pheu Thai, after Samak Sundaravej was dislodged as prime minister last year for merely hosting a TV cooking show and the People Power Party was dissolved later for violations of election laws by one of its executives.

The motive was, obviously, not to sway enough government MPs and win the censure vote, but to reinforce the impression here and abroad that Thaksin Shinawatra's followers have been subjected to some kind of judicial bias.

The real game will be played out after today outside Parliament. The National Anti-Corruption Commission will be tasked with considering if the case is strong enough to seek impeachment of individual Democrats. The Election Commission will have to follow up on whatever evidence the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has found about the controversial money.

It seems this issue is Pheu Thai's "Hail Mary" shot, its only hope. Other accusations made yesterday were mostly soft blows, including questions about Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's military background that looked far less complicated than those of Chalerm's own children, and about "undeclared" earrings Abhisit's wife wore at the couple's wedding. And a lot of time was spent in the afternoon, to everyone's amusement, on a protracted Democrat protest against an opposition speaker who claimed Abhisit was not the "real leader" of the ruling party.

Abhisit looked relaxed and confident. He answered questions with total composure and even appeared playful at certain points. In fact, most Democrats were like him on the first day of the parliamentary showdown.

But the seeming harmlessness of the two-day censure could betray something that lies ahead. The roads will be quite tricky. Chalerm, who was rumoured to have met Thaksin to seek advice on the censure strategy, has managed to plant more seeds of uncertainty on the already uncertain political landscape.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/20...cs_30098429.php

[Oberkommando]

A mental health, stress test for the whole country.

If the patient is already diagnosed as terminal and is on life support, mental health is not much of an issue.

[Thai at Heart]

3-6% margin of sampling error on good professional polls.

The polls they do here tend to by 5-8% margins of error.

Total above is 95.2

so is there 4.8% of unintelligible or irrelevant answers unaccounted for?

As to the question would Chalerm be a better PM than Abhisit.

Can you imagine Hun Sen and Chalerm negotiating?

Gordon Brown and Chalerm....

Bull in a china shop, with little economic credentials.

But lots of strong arm style puyai history.

Samak two redux,

A mental health, stress test for the whole country.

Chalerm may lack economic credentials, but as for Gordon Brooon, I wouldn't be championing his performance as Chancellor or PM to loudly.

What was the gold price when he liquidated the UK's gold?