Translation Thai - English

[abadac]

Could someone please translate this into English ? thx,

ฉันไม่ค่อยเก่งด้านภาษาแต่ได้นิดหน่อย

ขอให้คุณมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะในวันปีใหม่และตลอดไป

พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่ ขอให้พี่นางน้อยมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะคะ ฝากความคิดถึง ถึง jurgen ด้วย

[the scouser]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

Is the sender from Issan? She uses the phrase "pee nang noy" to mean elder sister.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[darkedge]

ey guys i just hope that somebody could help me, i meet a girl a few minutes before i write this post and i want to know what she said cuz i dont know anything about thai languaje so if you can help to translate this

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

อืม

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เออ

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงจะเล่นอันไหนกันแน่

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

กระแดะอย่างหนัก

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ไทยยังไปไม่รอดเลย เสือกคุยอังกฤษ

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

โอย

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เฮ้ยรำคาญแล้วว่ะ

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงเป็นใคร

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

Thai ว่ะ

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ตอแหลว่ะ

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

คุยกวนตีนกูบล็อคมึงแน่

[Richard W]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

[gburns57au]

Could someone please translate this into English ? thx,

ฉันไม่ค่อยเก่งด้านภาษาแต่ได้นิดหน่อย

ขอให้คุณมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะในวันปีใหม่และตลอดไป

พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่ ขอให้พี่นางน้อยมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะคะ ฝากความคิดถึง  ถึง jurgen ด้วย

literal translation.

I not hardly expert stop language but can little bit

ask for you have happiness very much "na" inside day New Year and all time go

elder sister belong me will deliver when? ask for brother in law little have happiness very much "na ka"

commit effect think about reach Jurgen also

[Thai_dye]

well, it was such a rude conversation she made. But, I couldn't help laguhing. I wouldn't want to know if I were you. But here you go.

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

อืม (umm)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เออ (yeah..)

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงจะเล่นอันไหนกันแน่ (Which one're ya palying?) (She used "maeng" as for "you" in Thai, but considered as a rude word for "you".)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

กระแดะอย่างหนัก (f*ckin showing off..) My guess was she thought you were a Thai who showed off how good at English you were.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ไทยยังไปไม่รอดเลย เสือกคุยอังกฤษ (You coulnd't even make it in Thai, now ya're f*ckin try to talk in English)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

โอย (ooyy......) A Thai expression said when one gets bored.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เฮ้ยรำคาญแล้วว่ะ (Hey!!..I'm annoyed!)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงเป็นใคร (Who the &lt;deleted&gt;'re ya?) ==Every single word for "you" was used as "Maeng" on her conversation==Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

Thai ว่ะ (Thai waa') She was pretty sure you were Thai

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ตอแหลว่ะ (such a liar)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

คุยกวนตีนกูบล็อคมึงแน่ (If you talk obnoxiously, I'm definitely

gonna f*ckin block ya)

PS. "มึง" pronounced "Maeng" means "ya", but extremly rude. Use it when you want to picka fight!

[meadish_sweetball]

well, it was such a rude conversation she made. But, I couldn't help laguhing. I wouldn't want to know if I were you. But here you go.

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

อืม  (umm)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เออ  (yeah..)

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงจะเล่นอันไหนกันแน่  (Which one're ya palying?)    (She used "maeng" as for "you" in Thai, but considered as a rude word for "you".)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

กระแดะอย่างหนัก (f*ckin showing off..)  My guess was she thought you were a Thai who showed off how good at English you were.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ไทยยังไปไม่รอดเลย เสือกคุยอังกฤษ  (You coulnd't even make it in Thai, now ya're f*ckin try to talk in English)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

โอย  (ooyy......)  A Thai expression said when one gets bored.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เฮ้ยรำคาญแล้วว่ะ  (Hey!!..I'm annoyed!)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงเป็นใคร  (Who the &lt;deleted&gt;'re ya?)    ==Every single word for "you" was used as "Maeng" on her conversation==Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

Thai ว่ะ  (Thai waa')  She was pretty sure you were Thai

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ตอแหลว่ะ  (such a liar)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

คุยกวนตีนกูบล็อคมึงแน่  (If you talk obnoxiously, I'm definitely

gonna f*ckin block ya)

PS. "มึง" pronounced "Maeng" means "ya", but extremly rude. Use it when you want to picka fight!

Thai dye, cheers a million for the clarification of that conversation. Very interesting for me, because I am still not that good at understanding 'guan' language and most Thais are reluctant to explain it to me because it is "mai suphaab". I have no intention of using it but I want to understand what people are saying at least.

There is so much extra meaning you need to read into the few words actually used in a chat conversation in Thai.

Excellent explanation! I hope you come back to the forum often.

[meadish_sweetball]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

[gburns57au]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

in that case i would have thought the word Meua would begin the sentence...

[meadish_sweetball]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

in that case i would have thought the word Meua would begin the sentence...

Nope, not necessarily. Here are some examples from THAI REFERENCE GRAMMAR by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan:

Whenever is "meuarai gaw dai", often shortened to "meuarai" only.

You can come whenever you are free / You can come any time you're free.

Khun ja maa meuarai gaw dai thii khun waang

Meuarai (thii khun) waang, khun gaw maa dai.

Thaa khun waang meuarai, khun gaw maa (dai). / Waang meuarai gaw maa (dai).

Whenever you go, I'll go with you.

(Mai waa) meuarai thii khun pai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

(Mai waa / theung) khun pai meuarai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

Pai meuarai gaw ja pai duay. / Pai gaw pai duay.

From Chapter 10 (using gaw).

There is one thing missing from the letter above though, the "gaw" which I feel should have been there.

[gburns57au]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

in that case i would have thought the word Meua would begin the sentence...

Nope, not necessarily. Here are some examples from THAI REFERENCE GRAMMAR by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan:

Whenever is "meuarai gaw dai", often shortened to "meuarai" only.

You can come whenever you are free / You can come any time you're free.

Khun ja maa meuarai gaw dai thii khun waang

Meuarai (thii khun) waang, khun gaw maa dai.

Thaa khun waang meuarai, khun gaw maa (dai). / Waang meuarai gaw maa (dai).

Whenever you go, I'll go with you.

(Mai waa) meuarai thii khun pai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

(Mai waa / theung) khun pai meuarai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

Pai meuarai gaw ja pai duay. / Pai gaw pai duay.

From Chapter 10 (using gaw).

There is one thing missing from the letter above though, the "gaw" which I feel should have been there.

No meua rai at the end and not one a question....meua rai at the end of the sentence usually makes the statement a question.

And shame on you MS....using a reference book that has the word for "go" listed as "pai"....as you know it has a "bp" sound and is closer to "bai" than "pai"....one of the first things I look for when selecting a good reference book.

[meadish_sweetball]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

in that case i would have thought the word Meua would begin the sentence...

Nope, not necessarily. Here are some examples from THAI REFERENCE GRAMMAR by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan:

Whenever is "meuarai gaw dai", often shortened to "meuarai" only.

You can come whenever you are free / You can come any time you're free.

Khun ja maa meuarai gaw dai thii khun waang

Meuarai (thii khun) waang, khun gaw maa dai.

Thaa khun waang meuarai, khun gaw maa (dai). / Waang meuarai gaw maa (dai).

Whenever you go, I'll go with you.

(Mai waa) meuarai thii khun pai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

(Mai waa / theung) khun pai meuarai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

Pai meuarai gaw ja pai duay. / Pai gaw pai duay.

From Chapter 10 (using gaw).

There is one thing missing from the letter above though, the "gaw" which I feel should have been there.

No meua rai at the end and not one a question....meua rai at the end of the sentence usually makes the statement a question.

And shame on you MS....using a reference book that has the word for "go" listed as "pai"....as you know it has a "bp" sound and is closer to "bai" than "pai"....one of the first things I look for when selecting a good reference book.

1. I admit that it is not clear-cut how to interpret this particular passage from the letter - it may be a question as well, but since you translate Thai into English, you should know that the spaces in Thai text do not automatically denote sentence boundaries, sometimes they denote clause boundaries. If we analyse the passage from that perspective, "meuarai" is not the final word of the sentence, but the final word of a clause within a sentence, as in some of the examples I quoted from the book. If you still dont see what I mean there is really no point in continuing the discussion.

From the letter: พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่ ขอให้พี่นางน้อยมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะคะ

From the book: ว่างเเมื่อไหร่ ก็มาได้

2. The choice of symbols is irrelevant to the validity of the book. /p/ is the symbol normally used for an unaspirated "p" sound whereas /ph/ is used for the aspirated "p" sound. There are other variants such as "bp" for the unaspirated sound and "p" for the aspirated sound, which might be more intuitive for a person who is not familiar with the international phonetic alphabet.

Most professional linguists who analyse Thai grammar and phonetics, native Thais as well as foreigners, use an IPA-based transcription of Thai. Marvin Brown who prepared the AUA language courses, as well as Mary Haas who has produced the most reliable and accurate dictionary from Thai into English, both use that distinction. If you rule them out as non-trustworthy sources you should seriously consider a reality check.

It is really only a question of knowing how the symbols should be pronounced in each individual case. Apart from real Thai letters there is no "good" way of representing Thai sounds because the relation between pronunciation and spelling is different for each language that employs latin letters - Greeks, Finns, Swedes, Germans, Vietnamese, French, Dutch, Danes, Norwegians, Italians, Spaniards and Portuguese all have their own phonetic values for the letters of the Latin alphabet.

Also, if you use "b" for the initial sound of ไป instead, how will you then write ใบ "bai" = leaf?

[gburns57au]

The following may not be precise but conveys the broad meaning.

"I (female) can hardly speak language (English?), only a little bit.

I wish you a lot of happiness, not only for New Year but forever. When my elder sister gives birth I will wish her a lot of happiness ( + particle). Say hello to Jurgen too."

The Thai translated as 'When my elder sister gives birth' reads พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่. Surely เมื่อไหร่ makes it a question - 'When will my big sister give birth?'.

Richard.

Not necessarily - words like "meuarai" can also be used as adverbials - in this case

"Whenever my big sister gives birth, I will wish her lots of happiness".

in that case i would have thought the word Meua would begin the sentence...

Nope, not necessarily. Here are some examples from THAI REFERENCE GRAMMAR by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan:

Whenever is "meuarai gaw dai", often shortened to "meuarai" only.

You can come whenever you are free / You can come any time you're free.

Khun ja maa meuarai gaw dai thii khun waang

Meuarai (thii khun) waang, khun gaw maa dai.

Thaa khun waang meuarai, khun gaw maa (dai). / Waang meuarai gaw maa (dai).

Whenever you go, I'll go with you.

(Mai waa) meuarai thii khun pai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

(Mai waa / theung) khun pai meuarai, phom gaw ja pai duay.

Pai meuarai gaw ja pai duay. / Pai gaw pai duay.

From Chapter 10 (using gaw).

There is one thing missing from the letter above though, the "gaw" which I feel should have been there.

No meua rai at the end and not one a question....meua rai at the end of the sentence usually makes the statement a question.

And shame on you MS....using a reference book that has the word for "go" listed as "pai"....as you know it has a "bp" sound and is closer to "bai" than "pai"....one of the first things I look for when selecting a good reference book.

1. I admit that it is not clear-cut how to interpret this particular passage from the letter - it may be a question as well, but since you translate Thai into English, you should know that the spaces in Thai text do not automatically denote sentence boundaries, sometimes they denote clause boundaries. If we analyse the passage from that perspective, "meuarai" is not the final word of the sentence, but the final word of a clause within a sentence, as in some of the examples I quoted from the book. If you still dont see what I mean there is really no point in continuing the discussion.

From the letter: พี่สาวของฉันจะคลอดเมื่อไหร่ ขอให้พี่นางน้อยมีความสุขมาก ๆ นะคะ

From the book: ว่างเเมื่อไหร่ ก็มาได้

2. The choice of symbols is irrelevant to the validity of the book. /p/ is the symbol normally used for an unaspirated "p" sound whereas /ph/ is used for the aspirated "p" sound. There are other variants such as "bp" for the unaspirated sound and "p" for the aspirated sound, which might be more intuitive for a person who is not familiar with the international phonetic alphabet.

Most professional linguists who analyse Thai grammar and phonetics, native Thais as well as foreigners, use an IPA-based transcription of Thai. Marvin Brown who prepared the AUA language courses, as well as Mary Haas who has produced the most reliable and accurate dictionary from Thai into English, both use that distinction. If you rule them out as non-trustworthy sources you should seriously consider a reality check.

It is really only a question of knowing how the symbols should be pronounced in each individual case. Apart from real Thai letters there is no "good" way of representing Thai sounds because the relation between pronunciation and spelling is different for each language that employs latin letters - Greeks, Finns, Swedes, Germans, Vietnamese, French, Dutch, Danes, Norwegians, Italians, Spaniards and Portuguese all have their own phonetic values for the letters of the Latin alphabet.

Also, if you use "b" for the initial sound of ไป instead, how will you then write ใบ "bai" = leaf?

1.... I do see what you mean....That is why I do literal translation and not journalised translation, Most times you need to know some history to make sense of it....to do it cold is not always so easy. I usually do a literal translation then sit down and go through it with the recipient of the letter to ensure that I am not giving them the wrong idea.

2...I dont discount anybodys approach...but in a forum where people may take what you say as gospel they could well be confused by what you quote....the word "go" I have found is an excellent example. If someone without knowledge reads what you quoted, then goes to a thai person and says "ja pai duay" he will not be understood...if he says "ja Bai duay" he stands a better chance of being understood.....this did arise in my early days.....I called my ex, and her sister came to the phone....using my tourist type phrase book...I asked ..."name pai nai"...not a hope of being understood....before I mastered the Bp sound I used "bai" and was always understood. When you post in a forum like this where many people dont know Thai, you need to write it as close as possible to the way it is actually pronounced or you are inadvertantly misleading people.

Now to sling it back at you.....If you use "pai" then how would you write the word for playing cards which is also "pai", perhaps the way to write it would "Bpai". Of course the answer lies in the context of the sentence, if you were to say..."Wan ni phom bai ha maw" then the listener would know you are going to see the doctor today.

I dont hold the technical learning in great regard because I learnt the same way as the Thais are taught...I brought a similar thing up in another forum about rules in the Thai language....As my Thai qualified teacher said to me....the thai language has few rules and those that it has are meant to be broken.

My concern only is that people dont go out and use the word "pai" as quoted by you when that pronounciation is wrong.

with all due respect

Graham

[bannork]

The only way to use Thai language is to use Thai letters, it's not difficult to master the basics; Thais nationwide, some with little education, can do it.Using Western letters only causes confusion, some Thai sounds can't be replicated in Western alphabets. For instance a pianist couldn't replicate the bends, mutings, feedback, chokings of Rory Gallagher or Eric Clapton; they're both playing music but using different equipment, communication in different genres.

[gburns57au]

The only way to use Thai language is to use Thai letters, it's not difficult to master the basics; Thais nationwide, some with little education, can do it.Using Western letters only causes confusion, some Thai sounds can't be replicated in Western alphabets. For instance a pianist couldn't replicate the bends, mutings, feedback, chokings of Rory Gallagher or Eric Clapton; they're both playing music but using different equipment, communication in different genres.

Interesting analogy....

Unfortunately not everyone can write Thai letters and not everyone can play music...

But unless a pianist changes the arrangement of the Clapton guitar song then he will replicate as close to the oringinal as possible given the equipment he has available.

On this point, we all have the same equipment, our mouths, ears and brains. sure the delivery may as different as a Fender to a Gibson...but we should replicate the sound as close to the original as possible so that the song remains the same...

Bannork.....I like your analogy now.

[meadish_sweetball]

1.... I do see what you mean....That is why I do literal translation and not journalised translation, Most times you need to know some history to make sense of it....to do it cold is not always so easy. I usually do a literal translation then sit down and go through it with the recipient of the letter to ensure that I am not giving them the wrong idea.

2...I dont discount anybodys approach...but in a forum where people may take what you say as gospel they could well be confused by what you quote....the word "go" I have found is an excellent example. If someone without knowledge reads what you quoted, then goes to a thai person and says "ja pai duay" he will not be understood...if he says "ja Bai duay" he stands a better chance of being understood.....this did arise in my early days.....I called my ex, and her sister came to the phone....using my tourist type phrase book...I asked ..."name pai nai"...not a hope of being understood....before I mastered the Bp sound I used "bai" and was always understood. When you post in a forum like this where many people dont know Thai, you need to write it as close as possible to the way it is actually pronounced or you are inadvertantly misleading people.

Now to sling it back at you.....If you use "pai" then how would you write the word for playing cards which is also "pai", perhaps the way to write it would "Bpai". Of course the answer lies in the context of the sentence, if you were to say..."Wan ni phom bai ha maw" then the listener would know you are going to see the doctor today.

I dont hold the technical learning in great regard because I learnt the same way as the Thais are taught...I brought a similar thing up in another forum about rules in the Thai language....As my Thai qualified teacher said to me....the thai language has few rules and those that it has are meant to be broken.

My concern only is that people dont go out and use the word "pai" as quoted by you when that pronounciation is wrong.

with all due respect

Graham

Yes, sometimes it is all but impossible to translate Thai letters, especially when written by people who are not that used to writing, which is often the case when Thai ladies write to their male 'friends' overseas. It is often similar to my grandmother's style of writing - she only went to school for six years, which means she writes and spells very much like she speaks and without a clear structure. She writes pieces for a local magazine and I used to rewrite them for her before they went to press.

I would write the word for playing cards ไพ่ as "phai" since that "p" sound is aspirated (has a puff of air after it). Apart from that, the word also takes the falling tone, so to mark the tone I would write either phâi (standard symbol for falling tone) or phai[FallingShort] (system suggested by Richard W here in the forum). I would not write it as "bpai" since the sound is not like a "b".

People in the forum transcribe Thai in a multitude of personally derived ways. It would be good to set a common standard and stick to that so we would not be having these arguments.

Concerning technical learning, I think it depends on your personal learning style. I know that I would not speak Thai as clearly as I now do if I had not done 3 years of formal schooling in Thai. Few people I know who have learned Thai "the natural way" have achieved the same level as I have - I can think of one off the bat, but he has 10 years of living in Thailand under his belt.

Then again, some people in my class could not master the tonal system or the unique sounds no matter how hard they tried, whereas others went on to speak clearer and become even more fluent than myself. แล้วแต่ ...

With respect,

Meadish

[gburns57au]

1.... I do see what you mean....That is why I do literal translation and not journalised translation, Most times you need to know some history to make sense of it....to do it cold is not always so easy. I usually do a literal translation then sit down and go through it with the recipient of the letter to ensure that I am not giving them the wrong idea.

2...I dont discount anybodys approach...but in a forum where people may take what you say as gospel they could well be confused by what you quote....the word "go" I have found is an excellent example. If someone without knowledge reads what you quoted, then goes to a thai person and says "ja pai duay" he will not be understood...if he says "ja Bai duay" he stands a better chance of being understood.....this did arise in my early days.....I called my ex, and her sister came to the phone....using my tourist type phrase book...I asked ..."name pai nai"...not a hope of being understood....before I mastered the Bp sound I used "bai" and was always understood.  When you post in a forum like this where many people dont know Thai, you need to write it as close as possible to the way it is actually pronounced or you are inadvertantly misleading people.

Now to sling it back at you.....If you use "pai" then how would you write the word for playing cards which is also "pai", perhaps the way to write it would "Bpai". Of course the answer lies in the context of the sentence, if you were to say..."Wan ni phom bai ha maw"  then the listener would know you are going to see the doctor today.

I dont hold the technical learning in great regard because I learnt the same way as the Thais are taught...I brought a similar thing up in another forum about rules in the Thai language....As my Thai qualified teacher said to me....the thai language has few rules and those that it has are meant to be broken.

My concern only is that people dont go out and use the word "pai" as quoted by you when that pronounciation is wrong.

with all due respect

Graham

Yes, sometimes it is all but impossible to translate Thai letters, especially when written by people who are not that used to writing, which is often the case when Thai ladies write to their male 'friends' overseas. It is often similar to my grandmother's style of writing - she only went to school for six years, which means she writes and spells very much like she speaks and without a clear structure. She writes pieces for a local magazine and I used to rewrite them for her before they went to press.

I would write the word for playing cards ไพ่ as "phai" since that "p" sound is aspirated (has a puff of air after it). Apart from that, the word also takes the falling tone, so to mark the tone I would write either phâi (standard symbol for falling tone) or phai[FallingShort] (system suggested by Richard W here in the forum). I would not write it as "bpai" since the sound is not like a "b".

People in the forum transcribe Thai in a multitude of personally derived ways. It would be good to set a common standard and stick to that so we would not be having these arguments. 

Concerning technical learning, I think it depends on your personal learning style. I know that I would not speak Thai as clearly as I now do if I had not done 3 years of formal schooling in Thai. Few people I know who have learned Thai "the natural way" have achieved the same level as I have - I can think of one off the bat, but he has 10 years of living in Thailand under his belt.

Then again, some people in my class could not master the tonal system or the unique sounds no matter how hard they tried, whereas others went on to speak clearer and become even more fluent than myself. แล้วแต่ ...

With respect,

Meadish

I actually meant that the word for "go" is "bpai"

I wouldnt use the Ph sound at all even if the letter "p" is aspirated for the reason that a lot of english speaking people would pronounce "ph" as an "f" sound which would only confuse more...remember the journos who recently pronounced Phuket as Fuket..

As I said, there are people here who may take what we say here as gospel and in order to make it easy for them to understand and pronounce the words I would think it is better to write the words as closely to the way they sound as possible.

I agree a standard form would be great...the only trouble is ...whose ????... Unfortunately everyone does have a different way based on their different learnings. I just try to write it as it sounds to my ear...which maybe different to your ear...

Btw ...I am not arguing...just trying to make what I believe is a valid point

[Richard W]

I would write the word for playing cards ไพ่ as "phai" since that "p" sound is aspirated (has a puff of air after it). Apart from that, the word also takes the falling tone, so to mark the tone I would write either phâi (standard symbol for falling tone) or phai[FallingShort] (system suggested by Richard W here in the forum). I would not write it as "bpai" since the sound is not like a "b".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The length letter is all I can claim credit for. I was just fleshing out Sabaijai's excellent suggestion that we use the Royal Thai Transcription Scheme (I forget the proper name) but with its ambiguities removed by

• doubling the long vowels
  
• Using 'j' rather than 'ch' for จ (possibly tolerating 'c')
  
• Showing the tone.
  

I think we also agreed to 'tolerate' 'g' as well as the more correct 'k' for syllable-initial ก.

I think the only vowels for which we need the length letter are:

ae, oe, ue, aw/or, ia, uea, ua.

Except for 'ue', the long sound is much commoner than the short sound for these vowel pairs. Short ia, uea, ua should be followed by a glottal stop, but we follow the European tradition of not writing it. (I claim that in monosyllabic words Thai *usually* writes it using the 'vowel' letter ะ.)

าย and าว should be transliterated as 'aai' and 'aao'. The difference between /a/ and /aa/ is also one of quality.

I like the system of 'eu' for the short vowel อึ, contrasting with 'ue' for the long vowel อื, but it's not widespread enough to be immediately obvious. I've only seen this little scheme used in the Nation's TV listings.

Edited January 19, 2005 by Richard W

[Richard W]

I think the only vowels for which we need the length letter are:

ae, oe, ue, aw/or, ia, uea, ua.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forgot to mention that we only need to write the length contrast for ia, uea and ua in 'open' syllables.

[bina]

how would you write/pronounce the number '7'??

most of but not all of the guys here pronounce it somewhere between a 'g' in 'get' and and 'gj' like someone clenching their teeth and pushing their tongue behind their teeth at the same time; these are isaan guys (pu sai instead of pu chai (man), shang instead of chang (elephant) etc so my pronunciation matches their's for good or bad.....

[meadish_sweetball]

The initial sound in เจ็ด (7) contrasts with the initial sound in เช็ด (wipe, dry).

The IPA-based transcriptions write the first sound in 7 as "c" in most cases, in contast to "ch" in the other word. The sound in 7 is unaspirated and the sound in wipe is aspirated. This is of course not consistent with English spelling rules.

The official system for road signs in Thailand makes no difference between these two sounds. The name of the river that flows through Bangkok is written as Chao Phraya whereas the Thai pronunciation sounds a lot more like Jaao P-yaa.

The same 2 Latin letters are used to write Chonburi, which in fact has a different initial sound than Chao Phraya.

If we are to base a transcription on English spelling rules, I personally think "j" comes closest if you are to represent the sound in 7.

So to cut it short: "jet" or "jed" (the final sound is silent anyway, and since the sounds "d" and "t" start with the tongue at the same location in your mouth it is irrelevant which of the two letters you choose, as long as you are consistent. D is possibly better because it is softer.

To answer your question about pronunciation: pronounce it as "jed" in English, but make the initial sound even harder than in the word "jet", make your tongue "snap" off your hard palate (the ridge behind your teeth). As for the final sound (d), dont "spit it out", but stop the sound when your tongue lies in the place where you would normally pronounce the "d".

Edited January 20, 2005 by meadish_sweetball

[Richard W]

how would you write/pronounce the number '7'??

most of but not all of the guys here pronounce it  somewhere between a 'g' in 'get' and and 'gj' like someone clenching their teeth and pushing their tongue behind their teeth at the same time; these are isaan guys (pu sai instead of pu chai (man), shang instead of chang (elephant) etc  so my pronunciation matches their's for good or bad.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The transcription of the Standard Thai would be [L]jet, but the actual pronunciation is another matter. The normal SW Tai pronunication is, in X-SAMPA, [tS], like English soft 'ch' but unaspirated.

However, what Bina describes sounds like the palatal stop [c]. I became acquanted with it listening to Azerbaijani Farsi, which distinguishes [tS] (spelt chim) and [c] (kaf before front vowels). It wouldn't surprise me if what Bina is hearing were a result of Austro-Asiatic substrates, e.g. Surin Khmer, but there are plenty of minor Austro-Asiatic languages scattered about Isaan. The Austro-Asiatic languages of the region generally have [c] rather than [tS].

[zynixis]

hi. does anyone know what's this in english?

บางครั้งก็เหนื่อย หลายครั้งที่ท้อ เกือบทุกครั้งที่หลงทางมา แต่ทุกครั้งทำดีที่สุด พอใจแล้ว

thanks.

[bannork]

hi. does anyone know what's this in english?

บางครั้งก็เหนื่อย หลายครั้งที่ท้อ เกือบทุกครั้งที่หลงทางมา แต่ทุกครั้งทำดีที่สุด พอใจแล้ว

thanks.

Sometimes I'm tired, many times I feel discouraged, nearly always I feel lost, but I always do my best and that's good enough for me.

[skylar]

well, it was such a rude conversation she made. But, I couldn't help laguhing. I wouldn't want to know if I were you. But here you go.

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

อืม  (umm)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เออ  (yeah..)

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงจะเล่นอันไหนกันแน่  (Which one're ya palying?)    (She used "maeng" as for "you" in Thai, but considered as a rude word for "you".)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

กระแดะอย่างหนัก (f*ckin showing off..)  My guess was she thought you were a Thai who showed off how good at English you were.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ไทยยังไปไม่รอดเลย เสือกคุยอังกฤษ  (You coulnd't even make it in Thai, now ya're f*ckin try to talk in English)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

โอย  (ooyy......)  A Thai expression said when one gets bored.Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

เฮ้ยรำคาญแล้วว่ะ  (Hey!!..I'm annoyed!)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

มึงเป็นใคร  (Who the &lt;deleted&gt;'re ya?)    ==Every single word for "you" was used as "Maeng" on her conversation==Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

Thai ว่ะ  (Thai waa')  She was pretty sure you were Thai

Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

ตอแหลว่ะ  (such a liar)Mariah_Carey | --- '' The Emancipation of Mimi '' The New Album's Mariah Carey --- | dice:

คุยกวนตีนกูบล็อคมึงแน่  (If you talk obnoxiously, I'm definitely

gonna f*ckin block ya)

PS. "มึง" pronounced "Maeng" means "ya", but extremly rude. Use it when you want to picka fight!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai dye, cheers a million for the clarification of that conversation. Very interesting for me, because I am still not that good at understanding 'guan' language and most Thais are reluctant to explain it to me because it is "mai suphaab". I have no intention of using it but I want to understand what people are saying at least.

There is so much extra meaning you need to read into the few words actually used in a chat conversation in Thai.

Excellent explanation! I hope you come back to the forum often.

I think the female is trying to present herself as a tough person when using มึง - don't bargirls use this word? I also heard that katoeys use it but they have never used it with me when speaking with any (limited contact with either of these situations). Answers anyone?

[meadish_sweetball]

If you use this word with somebody you do not know well, it is fight talk.

"guu" and "meung" are old pronouns in Thai and in Sukhothai times they were used as everyday pronouns for "me" and "you" with no impolite connotations.

Today they are used among close male friends and among females and khatoey who like to joke around and want to sound streetsmart or tough.

In a close relation, it is a bonding pronoun, showing that "we are close enough that we can use this word without it being offensive", but in all other situations it is extremely impolite.

By Thais it can be used for comic effect, but the appropriate time is very hard to judge unless you are already completely fluent in Thai and can read situations correctly. As a learner you should avoid using it, because it will typically sound even more offensive coming from a farang than from a fellow Thai.

[skylar]

If you use this word with somebody you do not know well, it is fight talk.

"guu" and "meung" are old pronouns in Thai and in Sukhothai times they were used as everyday pronouns for "me" and "you" with no impolite connotations.

Today they are used among close male friends and among females and khatoey who like to joke around and want to sound streetsmart or tough.

In a close relation, it is a bonding pronoun, showing that "we are close enough that we can use this word without it being offensive", but in all other situations it is extremely impolite.

By Thais it can be used for comic effect, but the appropriate time is very hard to judge unless you are already completely fluent in Thai and can read situations correctly. As a learner you should avoid using it, because it will typically sound even more offensive coming from a farang than from a fellow Thai.

I know the guu meung thing already. I just wasn't sure about the chaps on the margins of society. And I'd never ever use them, fluent or not. Not my style.

[meadish_sweetball]

Some kathoeys do use it, yes, but the rules are still kind of similar - they wouldn't use it with somebody they did not know very well unless they were deliberately trying to be offensive or funny.

In other words, not with you, as I guess you are not a close friend nor part of their group.

[zynixis]

translation, please?

จิคาเนะ <3 ฮิเมโกะ สุดยอดดดดดดด ไส้ดินสอสี สุดยอดดดดดดดดดด

thanks!

Edited March 7, 2006 by zynixis

[BambinA]

translation, please?

จิคาเนะ <3 ฮิเมโกะ สุดยอดดดดดดด ไส้ดินสอสี สุดยอดดดดดดดดดด

thanks!

Jikane love(heart) ( <3) Himeko , too much /top form /funkin much , color pencil lead too much /top form /funkin much