Uk Pensions In Thailand - Petition

[Chalky]

Just been sent this petition for all of us in countries subject to a pension freeze on reaching pensionable age.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/pension-robbery/

The wording is rather naff but it's a step in the right direction - "up to you".

Mods: Apologies if I put it in the wrong forum :-)

[7by7]

I have signed the petition, not that I expect it to do much good.

These petitions are a cynical PR exercise by Labour; done to show that they are 'listening' to the people, but they achieve nothing.

I once organised a similar petition against the outrageous regime of visa fees imposed by Labour. The result? well, we all know that!

[sumrit]

I've also signed but don't expect anything from it. The UK government were taken to the European court last year on this very subject and the government won so I don't expect a petion to force them to change their minds. Still it shows people are still unhappy about it.

[Merangue]

signed but like the above i can't see it doing much.

[endure]

"It causes a great deal of bitterness when people who have paid nothing into the system are able to claim an increasing pension untill their demise, simply because they decide to live in the U.K. with its wonderfull benefit system"

Not true. You can't draw a pension unless you've contributed. It's partly a dig at immigrants and it's poorly written. Whoever wrote it should have kept the bigotry out of it and stuck to the point. I agree with the sentiment but there's no way I'm signing that.

[Chaimai]

I don't like the wording either but I will still sign any petition that seeks to reverse this iniquitous decision.

[Merangue]

"It causes a great deal of bitterness when people who have paid nothing into the system are able to claim an increasing pension untill their demise, simply because they decide to live in the U.K. with its wonderfull benefit system"

Not true. You can't draw a pension unless you've contributed. It's partly a dig at immigrants and it's poorly written. Whoever wrote it should have kept the bigotry out of it and stuck to the point. I agree with the sentiment but there's no way I'm signing that.

Not so much a dig at immigrants as a dig at people who live on benefits for all of their lives without paying into the system, then claim a pension and having chosen to stay in the UK get an increase each year. No bigotry in my opinion.

That is how i read it anyway.

[endure]

Another quote from the petition:

"It is time the U.K. Gov. started caring more about its indigenous population , in this case pensioners no matter where they choose to live."

As I said, a dig at immigrants.

Any man drawing a pension today would have to have been born in 1944 at the latest. I doubt very much whether anyone born then has lived on benefits all their lives.

[CharlieB]

Yep, the wording is xenophobic and wanders off into a general attack on other sections of the population when it should have just kept to the subject it was about. Should have been spell-checked before putting up as well.

[sumrit]

"It causes a great deal of bitterness when people who have paid nothing into the system are able to claim an increasing pension untill their demise, simply because they decide to live in the U.K. with its wonderfull benefit system"

Not true. You can't draw a pension unless you've contributed. It's partly a dig at immigrants and it's poorly written. Whoever wrote it should have kept the bigotry out of it and stuck to the point. I agree with the sentiment but there's no way I'm signing that.

Not so much a dig at immigrants as a dig at people who live on benefits for all of their lives without paying into the system, then claim a pension and having chosen to stay in the UK get an increase each year. No bigotry in my opinion.

That is how i read it anyway.

It maybe partly a dig at immigrants but I agree with Merangue it's also a dig at people on benefits.

As an example my first wife (who's neary sixty) has never contributed to the system in her life. She didn't work after she left school, then during our twenty-one years of marriage she didn't work. After we separated she claimed income support and had two more children from failed relationships and continues to claim benefits to this day.Another couple of years and she'll be able to get her state pension, half of it on the back of my contributions whilst we were married, and the other half because the state 'pays' her contributions for her while she's on benefits, and she'll be entitled to all the annual increases. But for me, who actually worked and paid those contributions for every week of my working life and never claimed a penny in state handouts will not be entitled to any annual increases because I choose to live in Thailand in a warm climate for health reasons.

[dogleg]

Signed, and sent, thanks for the opportunity Chalky.

[coventry]

I don't care if it has a dig at the Pope as long as I get what is justifiably mine by right. I signed, and I applaude the person who started the partition.

[billd766]

Another quote from the petition:

"It is time the U.K. Gov. started caring more about its indigenous population , in this case pensioners no matter where they choose to live."

As I said, a dig at immigrants.

Any man drawing a pension today would have to have been born in 1944 at the latest. I doubt very much whether anyone born then has lived on benefits all their lives.

I am due to get my pension in May and I have never claimed any benefits nor was I allowed to.

I worked for 39 years before being out of work the first time. As I was getting a military pension which I earned for 25 years service I was deemed as earning too much to claim.

THAT WAS the day I decided that I would live the rest of my life somewhere else with my long term Thai lady who I married the following year.

I have never received anything other than child benefits and I am not even entitled to that now as I live in Thailand.

[Davron]

Maybe the petition wording wanders off track a little but for gods sake he is correct in what he says.

British jobs for British workers and British pensions for British people, wherever they choose to retire to!

[Dave the Dude]

Signed & sent, I won't hold my breath as we are unfortunetly the wrong 'type' of minority group (honest,hardworking and tax-paying)

[coventry]

I have never received anything other than child benefits and I am not even entitled to that now as I live in Thailand.

Good for you billd776. I was on benefit for a few months before coming to Thailand. I informed the DSS to stop payments as I knew I wasn't entitled to them after leaving the UK. I still get paid 'Industrial Injuries Benefit', 20 quid plus a week, which is paid for life irrespective of where one lives. Why just that one ? God knows. It's not as if I need it, but they insist on paying it to me.

[PattayaParent]

The original link doesn't work.

Try this one.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/16387

[nong38]

I signed this in september, the number has gone up from 3500 to 10,800 there is a long way to go and time is running out. Everyone must look at their contact groups and ask all of them to sign and get their other contacts to pass on and sign or we will not get the numbers up.

[theoldgit]

I also signed this previously, though I think there is little or no chance of any government rolling over on this, despite any pre-election promises.

With the rate of inflation for September being 5.2% pensions and benefits should rise by that figure in April, it seems like Osbourne is trying to wriggle out of this uplift, at least for benefits, so it's pretty unlikely they will increase pensions for those who live overseas, as you know we all live in life of luxury, and for next to nothing.

[theoldgit]

^^^

I mean't to add, but coulndn't edit on phone, I do wonder what this thread is doing on the visa section.

[7by7]

The original link doesn't work.

Try this one.

http://epetitions.di...petitions/16387

Probably because that post, and the link it contains, is over two years old and that petition was closed long ago!

^^^

I mean't to add, but coulndn't edit on phone, I do wonder what this thread is doing on the visa section.

Good question, moved to General.

[nong38]

Dont ask what you can do for your country (you have already done it ) ASK WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU.

Who do you know who can sign this e petition and then forward to others to do do the same?

[Darrel]

The odds are that if any change is made at all it will merely be to freeze pensions for everyone outside the EU, no matter where they are, or indeed to stop paying pensions at all for those living outside the EU. At least that will put everyone in the same boat.

There is NO MONEY to fund future pensions. When will people understand this?

[4.real]

The welfare state has been a con on the working man ever since it was introduced.

Particularly to the most responsible worker ..The childless worker[male/female].

For starters the mandarins who drew this con up hid the real cost from the working man by dividing the [involuntary] contributions into 2 parts.

1 Employees contribution

2.Employers contribution..???

Roughly divided 50/50.

BUT...Who actually EARNS the employers contribution?

Any employer would add this cost to the cost of employing a worker.

Plus the employer would add this sum to his 'outgoings' when trade unions were seeking better salaries.

In other words the EMPLOYEE pays both contributions.

Then, for further insult, the mandarins capped the ceiling to just above what a middle manager would earn, thus making the cost to those with huge salaries quite minimal in comparison.

And now we who had to pay in for 44 years to gain full state pension are not only capped if we live in Thailand ,but the workers now need only pay for 30 years to qualify for full state pension.

BTW I read somewhere that most of the judges in the european court ruling understood little ,if any, english.and that one reason we did not get full pension rights was because they decided our pensions are a 'government benefit.

[exeter]

The welfare state has been a con on the working man ever since it was introduced.

Particularly to the most responsible worker ..The childless worker[male/female].

For starters the mandarins who drew this con up hid the real cost from the working man by dividing the [involuntary] contributions into 2 parts.

1 Employees contribution

2.Employers contribution..???

Roughly divided 50/50.

BUT...Who actually EARNS the employers contribution?

Any employer would add this cost to the cost of employing a worker.

Plus the employer would add this sum to his 'outgoings' when trade unions were seeking better salaries.

In other words the EMPLOYEE pays both contributions.

Then, for further insult, the mandarins capped the ceiling to just above what a middle manager would earn, thus making the cost to those with huge salaries quite minimal in comparison.

And now we who had to pay in for 44 years to gain full state pension are not only capped if we live in Thailand ,but the workers now need only pay for 30 years to qualify for full state pension.

BTW I read somewhere that most of the judges in the european court ruling understood little ,if any, english.and that one reason we did not get full pension rights was because they decided our pensions are a 'government benefit.

Well maybe those judges were 'advised' that if the UK had to suddenly fund these runaways there would be less availabe for the EU. HMMMMMMMMMMMM What technicality did they reject it on, anyone know? Governemnt Benefit my arse, I paid for it and they had the use of my money for years. Judges dont get goverment benefits do they? (Wages, holidays etc) Cheeky buggers.

Yes have signed it, but we do need to publicize it and get more names or we will not make the target.

[12DrinkMore]

The odds are that if any change is made at all it will merely be to freeze pensions for everyone outside the EU, no matter where they are, or indeed to stop paying pensions at all for those living outside the EU. At least that will put everyone in the same boat.

There is NO MONEY to fund future pensions. When will people understand this?

If you are referring to public sector and government pensions there are limitless supplies of money, number 11 will simply get the BoE to buy up the bonds, any interest will be paid to the BoE and then returned in a strange way back to the government account. Although this is essentially not legal it will be called something else like quantitative easing, or asset purchasing, or providing banking liquidity or some such bullshit, to add to the few hundred billions the BoE currently has on its books. Which can never, ever, be sold back to the market and might as well be written off, but that is verboten too.

If you are referring to the private sector, yes, they are in deep shit.

[cardholder]

The odds are that if any change is made at all it will merely be to freeze pensions for everyone outside the EU, no matter where they are, or indeed to stop paying pensions at all for those living outside the EU. At least that will put everyone in the same boat.

There is NO MONEY to fund future pensions. When will people understand this?

If you are referring to public sector and government pensions there are limitless supplies of money, number 11 will simply get the BoE to buy up the bonds, any interest will be paid to the BoE and then returned in a strange way back to the government account. Although this is essentially not legal it will be called something else like quantitative easing, or asset purchasing, or providing banking liquidity or some such bullshit, to add to the few hundred billions the BoE currently has on its books. Which can never, ever, be sold back to the market and might as well be written off, but that is verboten too.

If you are referring to the private sector, yes, they are in deep shit.

I don't wish to sound like the captain of the Titanic but if HSBC (who pay my pension) go down, many people will have cut their throats before I try and find a sharp knife !

[nong38]

The odds are that if any change is made at all it will merely be to freeze pensions for everyone outside the EU, no matter where they are, or indeed to stop paying pensions at all for those living outside the EU. At least that will put everyone in the same boat.

There is NO MONEY to fund future pensions. When will people understand this?

If you are referring to public sector and government pensions there are limitless supplies of money, number 11 will simply get the BoE to buy up the bonds, any interest will be paid to the BoE and then returned in a strange way back to the government account. Although this is essentially not legal it will be called something else like quantitative easing, or asset purchasing, or providing banking liquidity or some such bullshit, to add to the few hundred billions the BoE currently has on its books. Which can never, ever, be sold back to the market and might as well be written off, but that is verboten too.

If you are referring to the private sector, yes, they are in deep shit.

I don't wish to sound like the captain of the Titanic but if HSBC (who pay my pension) go down, many people will have cut their throats before I try and find a sharp knife !

Isnt it wonderful that countries dont go bankrupt, I would like to have the same arrangement. please can Jim Fix it for Me?

[Darrel]

The odds are that if any change is made at all it will merely be to freeze pensions for everyone outside the EU, no matter where they are, or indeed to stop paying pensions at all for those living outside the EU. At least that will put everyone in the same boat.

There is NO MONEY to fund future pensions. When will people understand this?

If you are referring to public sector and government pensions there are limitless supplies of money,.........

If you are referring to the private sector, yes, they are in deep shit.

I was mostly referring to the topic of the thread: the basic state pension. I seriously expect that steps will be taken in the near future to curtail the payment of these to anyone living outside the EU (they can't stop paying them inside the EU).

You are correct about the points you made.

[tw25rw]

Isnt it wonderful that countries dont go bankrupt, I would like to have the same arrangement. please can Jim Fix it for Me?

You're about a week late.