Open Gates Closed

[rdog]

IMO any existing BW parent who get narked over the school taking in opengate kids for 2 weeks need to get their head examined & show a bit of compassion & sympathy to those kids who got left hanging through no fault of their own.

Am I not entitled to an opinion?

Sorry but no one is narked over taking in children.

Sorry to rattle your cage.

[Boo]

Why would you rattle my cage & I am also confused as to where I have said you are not entitled to an opinion?

But for the record I am entitled to express mine too & it is, that I believe anyone who kicks up a fuss over these kids getting included at bluewater for 2 weeks for free is shallow & petty.

[rdog]

Why would you rattle my cage & I am also confused as to where I have said you are not entitled to an opinion?

But for the record I am entitled to express mine too & it is, that I believe anyone who kicks up a fuss over these kids getting included at bluewater for 2 weeks for free is shallow & petty.

Noted.

I have a friend moving over here from the the UK in two months who has lost his job in the city, do you think he should enrol now as well and get the free option for his two children? Just curious as to how you view that?

[Boo]

Has your friends children been attending Open Gates? From the sounds of it not so how could they gain anything from the 2 weeks free tuition that Bluewater has given those who have been let down? Those kids that Bluewater are helping out wont be getting next term for free so please try to come up with an actual relevant argument.

[rdog]

Has your friends children been attending Open Gates? From the sounds of it not so how could they gain anything from the 2 weeks free tuition that Bluewater has given those who have been let down? Those kids that Bluewater are helping out wont be getting next term for free so please try to come up with an actual relevant argument.

OK I give up before I get bashed...

Just would like to say that Jeremy has done a very nice and decent thing by offering this to the students of Open Gates and that should be acknowledged, well done.

Other discussion about this is obviously very emotional so I shall remove my oar and stick it some place useful! Suggestions I am sure are plentiful, but it won't fit there so I will just say good night and leave it at that.

[Mark Wolfe]

I'm confused here. Poster "ceed" writes as a former student in 2006-7 and writes like an adult, or a pretty amazing child. People keep mentioning "the children," and yet this is clearly not the post of a child.

Also...

...Children crying saying 'did it close because we were bad?'

I assume this is hyperbole. What sort of*** kid would think that?

Crying child: Did the school close because we were bad? (sob)

Parent: Yep, that was it. You were all such knuckleheads that the teachers threw up their hands and said, 'That's it! We quit!' So you better be super good at the next school or they'll close it down too!"

I can see rdog's point; the disruption of classes by the influx of newbies on existing students should also be grounds for compensation from the school. That seems reasonable.

As far as the "stress" from moving schools...I don't buy it. Kids complain about things but they are super resilient and changing schools isn't going to hurt them.

And look, schools are businesses too. Taking 45 new students for free is a shrewd move. It has the benefit of appearing humanitarian and will reap economic rewards when (re)enrollment time comes.

[maccaroni man]

With regards to the question of which examining body a school following the National Curriculum of England can choose from there are a number of institutions from the UK for these schools to choose from.

Open Gates was an accredited Cambridge International Centre as is Panyadee now. Bluewater has chosen to be, and is, an accredited Edexcel International Examinations Centre

each individual school to choose, each membership comes with an annual fee

These organisations are private British companies

That said none of the above organisations can 'licence' a school.

Only the Thai Ministry of Education can do that as we are in their country following a different curriculum to that of the Thai Education System.

Just to clarify, a bilingual licence is a seperate licence to that of an International licence.

We ourselves started the application process over a year ago Furthermore as I understand other schools on the Island are in the application process as well

Mr Jeremy Lees PGCE BSc (Hons)

Headmaster

Bluewater

Thank You because for once we have the truth as it should be known.

None of the schools on Samui are past the application stage for an international licence.

Cambridge International is a business that schools pay to recieve a certificate and are not in any way able to licence a shool.

There is a big difference between a bilingual licence and an international licence.

The only thing missing is the nursery licence which all the schools have and is the easiest to attain.

So with this information parents should be well enough informed that when a school admin shows them a cert from cambridge that they see it for the marketing tool that it is and nothing more.

Edited March 22, 2009 by maccaroni man

[maakeenaan]

Excellent point Maccaroni Man. I don't believe any of the schools in Samui, have or ever did have an international license. Also I don't like the way Bluewater doesn't allow you to view or even read about thier teachers on it's website. Most of the other schools' websites do. I feel as a parent in Thailand it's essential to be able see the teaching staff on the website or at least a list of names.

Regarding the closure of Open Gates, it was purely financial. Running a small private school here is not financially advisable. OG had been running a good 12 months b4 the arrival of the fresh faced Bluewater school with lots of cash to throw about. The owner of OG was doing his best to move the school forward with the development of a new campus. The global economic downturn coupled with existing financial difficulties saw the developers for the new campus pull the plug. The search for further financial backing proved fruitless understandably in today's economic climate. Open Gates was a good school and they got exam results that can't be disputed. Their Cambridge Checkpoints results last year were above average and many students have acheived respectable IGCSE grades there. Their teachers were qualified, hel_l, one just went straight into Bluewater and passed their selection criteria. Many others there had PGCE certification. So I guess the main thing is how long will it take before the recession bites even harder and another small Hansel and Gretel style 'family school' feels the pinch. If you want your child in a financially secure educational establishment, it's not here. Unless any of these cosy schools here get financial backing from a major player such as a top university in Bangkok or an established school in the West I thinks it's curtains. It's just a matter of time.

Edited March 22, 2009 by maakeenaan

[Birdman]

It's a mess.

Options are ether St.Jospeh in Nathon and later/or an internat in Bangkok.

[maccaroni man]

Excellent point Maccaroni Man. I don't believe any of the schools in Samui, have or ever did have an international license. Also I don't like the way Bluewater doesn't allow you to view or even read about thier teachers on it's website. Most of the other schools' websites do. I feel as a parent in Thailand it's essential to be able see the teaching staff on the website or at least a list of names.

Regarding the closure of Open Gates, it was purely financial. Running a small private school here is not financially advisable. OG had been running a good 12 months b4 the arrival of the fresh faced Bluewater school with lots of cash to throw about.

The owner of OG was doing his best to move the school forward with the development of a new campus. a promise for more than 24 months that never came.

The global economic downturn coupled with existing financial difficulties saw the developers for the new campus pull the plug. this is a good excuse now but what about the previous 3 school years of broken promises?

The search for further financial backing proved fruitless understandably in today's economic climate.

Open Gates was a good school and they got exam results that can't be disputed. a matter of opinion as to how important a Cambrigde exam is and if anyone would consider OG a good school.

Their Cambridge Checkpoints results last year were above average and many students have acheived respectable IGCSE grades there.

Their teachers were qualified, hel_l, one just went straight into Bluewater and passed their selection criteria. hmm that is ONE out of how many that will not be accepted at any of the other schools on the island?

Many others there had PGCE certification. So I guess the main thing is how long will it take before the recession bites even harder and another small Hansel and Gretel style 'family school' feels the pinch. If you want your child in a financially secure educational establishment, it's not here. Unless any of these cosy schools here get financial backing from a major player such as a top university in Bangkok or an established school in the West I thinks it's curtains. It's just a matter of time.

At the end of the day I think that all we can do as parents is believe what we see. If an owner says I am going to install a swimming pool, build a new campus, install an IT room etc.... and they do it within a reasonable amount of time then this demonstartes a certain amount of personal integrity and deserves a bit of faith that they will continue to do as they say. conversly when an owner continues to make promises and only raises fees and stalls without ever seeing the project come, then the parents must ask themselves is this a person I can trust. Thus far the only two schools that I know of where the owners do everything they say they are going to do, when they say they are going to do it, is BW and Lamai Center. What you say about the schools needing money to run is correct but as a parent I also want good value for money and when I compare the important issues such as Head teacher, facilitators, curriculum and economics I can not see why there is such a vast difference in the fee structure between BW where every thing is an extra lunch, pens , paper etc.. and Lamai Centre where tuition covers all school materials i.e. paper, pens, pencils, books, and school lunch. Lamai Center promised a new campus and in spite of having the lowest fees and these hard economic times they have the building 95% complete and will be ready for new classes on the new school year. So IMO it also takes a great deal of personal intergrity to have a school be able to keep it's doors open and yes money.

[Siwapong]

I’ve been reading some of the posts in this forum to follow up news from parents as an owner of one of English schools in Koh Samui.

However, there are some misunderstanding messages. I wouldn’t explain it if it’s not about Panyadee School, my school.

It’s about the Awards for the Membership of Cambridge International Primary Programme by University of Cambridge that we’ve granted. And we are also one of their Examination Centre’s.

In order to be awarded such correct one, you have to be granted the permission to open a primary school from Thailand Ministry of Education first. Otherwise, they wouldn’t accept any application.

Panyadee has been granted the Permission for Private School No. 003/2549, OBEC.SRI 1 ) from the Thai Ministry of Education for Primary Curriculum.

In order to do so, you’ll have to have all the right kinds of lands, buildings, equipments and staffs. So you wouldn’t be able to close your school so easily. It’s about going to jail.

Which I think this Permission is very important to be able to apply for other permissions or awards. Any parents decide to send their children to the next level of school system in Thailand will need their children to graduate from schools with the correct and right permission.

What we’ve been granted makes us capable of applying for further things which is useful for international students.

So we’ve been awarded for the Membership of Cambridge International Primary Programme by University of Cambridge for International Examination(CIE which is the part of The University of Cambridge and is the world’s largest provider of international examinations. We are in a process of applying for Cambridge Lower Secondary Programme for next academic year. Please visit the CIE website to find out more.

So this Cambridge membership makes us to be one of their Education Centre with their curriculum which different from what Open Gates had.

It took us 2 years to prepare and apply for this and it’s not something money can buy.

You have to be a legal school first.

Our goal is to be a small international school with a good curriculum. We don’t just do it for business. We don’t want any problems occur to our parents and children when they graduate. The truth is every parent should be able to understand the correct and true situation about education in Thailand. So they make their decisions upon true and correct informations.

That is why I hire my Principle: Phil Jenkins. He has been at Panyadee School since its opening in February 2005. He holds a Master Degree in Applied Linguistics from University of Queensland Australia, and an honours Bachelor degree in Thai literature and Language from The University of London. He has worked at all levels of education, in both government and international schools in The UK, Pakistan, Australia and Thailand. Phil has been living and teaching in Thailand for the last 18 years and has also been involved in teacher training and methodology training for the Thai Ministry of Education.

I’m trying to say that to open and run a good school is not easy. We are serious about it. I’m not trying to be nice. I’m trying to be straightforward and sincere. We are focusing only the core of education which is to have a very good curriculum with qualified teachers.

Siwapong Luenram

Panyadee School Owner

[maccaroni man]

I’ve been reading some of the posts in this forum to follow up news from parents as an owner of one of English schools in Koh Samui.

However, there are some misunderstanding messages. I wouldn’t explain it if it’s not about Panyadee School, my school.

It’s about the Awards for the Membership of Cambridge International Primary Programme by University of Cambridge that we’ve granted. And we are also one of their Examination Centre’s.

In order to be awarded such correct one, you have to be granted the permission to open a primary school from Thailand Ministry of Education first. Otherwise, they wouldn’t accept any application.

Panyadee has been granted the Permission for Private School No. 003/2549, OBEC.SRI 1 ) from the Thai Ministry of Education for Primary Curriculum. is this a bilingual school?

In order to do so, you’ll have to have all the right kinds of lands, buildings, equipments and staffs. So you wouldn’t be able to close your school so easily. It’s about going to jail.

Which I think this Permission is very important to be able to apply for other permissions or awards. Any parents decide to send their children to the next level of school system in Thailand will need their children to graduate from schools with the correct and right permission.

What we’ve been granted makes us capable of applying for further things which is useful for international students.

So we’ve been awarded for the Membership of Cambridge International Primary Programme by University of Cambridge for International Examination(CIE which is the part of The University of Cambridge and is the world’s largest provider of international examinations.

We are in a process of applying for Cambridge Lower Secondary Programme for next academic year. Please visit the CIE website to find out more. How much did this memebership cost? or was it awarded because of your good merit as a school?

So this Cambridge membership makes us to be one of their Education Centre with their curriculum which different from what Open Gates had.

It took us 2 years to prepare and apply for this and it’s not something money can buy.

You have to be a legal school first. any kind of legal school?

Our goal is to be a small international school with a good curriculum. Do you have an appication for international school licence being considered by the Thai ministry of education right now?

We don’t just do it for business. We don’t want any problems occur to our parents and children when they graduate. The truth is every parent should be able to understand the correct and true situation about education in Thailand. So they make their decisions upon true and correct informations.

That is why I hire my Principle: Phil Jenkins. He has been at Panyadee School since its opening in February 2005. He holds a Master Degree in Applied Linguistics from University of Queensland Australia, and an honours Bachelor degree in Thai literature and Language from The University of London. He has worked at all levels of education, in both government and international schools in The UK, Pakistan, Australia and Thailand. Phil has been living and teaching in Thailand for the last 18 years and has also been involved in teacher training and methodology training for the Thai Ministry of Education.

does he still spend most of his time running the tefl school and using those students to practice with the Panyadee school kids?

I’m trying to say that to open and run a good school is not easy. We are serious about it. I’m not trying to be nice. I’m trying to be straightforward and sincere. How many times have you increased your school fees over the last 24 months and what did the parents get for the extra cash? Was the swimming pool ever built?

We are focusing only the core of education which is to have a very good curriculum with qualified teachers. Is it possible to review yoru teachers credentials on line?

Siwapong Luenram

Panyadee School Owner

Edited March 23, 2009 by maccaroni man

[sbk]

maccaroni man, might I suggest for ease of reading that you do not post your questions and comments inside someone else's post? Or if you do, try not to do it in the same font size and coloring as their own post?

ideally, quote only the section you have a question on, then outside the quote box, ask the question and so on.

[maakeenaan]

SBK, being a moderator can I suggest you knock this thread on the head, it's rapidly turning into the farce the other thread on the same topic a few months ago turned into. I think the original post has been answered, Open Gates has closed, and now it's just being used as a publicity tool for the remaining schools arguing over what remains of the unfortunate school's carcass.

[Siwapong]

I've found there is some doubts according to what I've posted recently from maccaroni man.

My concern is not about being asked questions but about the way maccaroni man asked.

First of all I have to ask, maccaroni man. Do you have anything to do with any other international schools on the Island?

The way you posted all your questions, apart from being unfair questions, is not respectful whatsoever.

I'm ready to explain and never thought about being a competitor to any other schools at all.

We are only trying to do our best.

I even think Running a School shouldn't be something you compete with other school.

We are educating kids. To cooperate is somehow the ideal.

All unfair questions seem to be leading other people's understanding to the direction those questions have guided.

Which is no true.

If you really want to know about our awards from Cambridge, you can log in to their websites.

About our tuition fee, we have raised it once in the past 24 months.

But look what we've done. We bought our own land and build our own buildings trying to do the best to suit our children.

I think any sane people, if being fair enough, can see and calculate and compare.

We are an international school which granted the permission step by step starting from primary school from Thai Ministry of Education.

In order to open school like this, you have to have this permission first.

According to being such school in the system. All teachers are not part time or students. They have to be qualified teachers from the UK.

I'm not sure about the way maccaroni man have acted according to my post and using it like that.

What I feel, which doesn't have to be the fact, is that he has no respect whatsoever.

And for any further questions like those, please come to ask me at my school.

I'll be glad to answer and show all documents to proof.

But it's not fair to throw all those doubtful questions with some pessimistic directions in this public channel.

Some other members might misunderstand.

It's somehow similar to gossips and rumors. Or being discredited or some sort.

Siwapong Luenram

Panyadee Owner

[Mark Wolfe]

On a different note, I find it fascinating that this topic has pulled so many lurkers out of the woodwork. One guy says he's been here nine years and only just posted on this thread!

I mean, to some this might be the most earth-shattering topic, but frankly, it seems to me pretty much ho-hum: school closes and kids go elsewhere; schools may or may not have some sort of accreditation (shock, horror!). Big deal.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a recently former student like ceed can write with such aplomb. How old are these kids and what are they taught? I saw something about six to 12 year olds, but there must be others, unless these are some pretty intelligent kids.

And for Siwapong Luenram, remember the rule...the head of the school is your "pal," thus principal, not principle.

[bbcsamui]

I believe it is a difficult job to get a proper school up and running from scratch and certainly would not like to do it myself. It is not as easy as opening a bar or restaurant and is certainly more critical to get it right and to think long term.

I have not had any experience with Bluewater and wish them well. That is only because when I needed a school Bluewater were not around and after having my daughter go fleetingly to The International Academy, Bencaya and Dulwich, I wanted to see if we could find a school that could meet our long term needs without having to switch her again.

My daughter has been going to Panyadee for 3 years now and my son for over 2 years. They are both enjoying it and I believe getting a good education.

The private schools in Samui are in a difficult situation. There are many local Thai people looking for good education for their kids and there are many foreigners who want to ensure the education can dovetail with their home country or equivalent standard and paperwork.

I sat down with Khun Siwapong last year to discuss the direction the school was going. We talked about whether to focus on getting the Thai certification etc so that the people who wanted their children to remain in Thailand and go to Thai universities etc could do so ... or to go for International qualifications so that the (often transient) foreign component could have education certification that could be recognised at home (or where they are going next).

The conclusion Khun Siwapong came to is that he wants both and feels it will be critical to ensure long term survival for his school by ensuring the education the school delivers meets the needs of the varied community of children that attend it. To focus on one direction places limits on the suitability of the school and then the only way to attract children (and paying parents) is to focus on being cheaper. I personally do not want cheap – I want value for money. And while I feel the fees are higher than they should be, I believe that is because the market (of providing high quality private schools) is still not mature enough in Koh Samui which means there are not the economies of scale, there are not the appropriate supporting industries around it etc.

Having children that are only 5 years and 7 years old and being from Thai and New Zealand parents I was comfortable with that bi-directional approach as it gives me and my children flexibility to stay in the Thai education system or go elsewhere.

Getting qualified teachers in both directions is difficult, getting the two lots of certification is difficult (much more difficult than going to immigration and getting a visa renewal) ... doing all of this within a limited budget and depending on the support of a multicultural and demanding customer base is difficult… I certainly do not envy them.

Good luck to Bluewater and Panyadee … may you both still be around for me to argue your merits when my kids are at secondary school age. Healthy competition keeps you both on your toes.

[visionquesthai]

IMO any existing BW parent who get narked over the school taking in opengate kids for 2 weeks need to get their head examined & show a bit of compassion & sympathy to those kids who got left hanging through no fault of their own.

I'm a BW parent, have been since the beginning, and I have to agree. It sickens me to think that in times of need the island can't come together as a community and have some compassion for others! It's 2 weeks for gods sake!! The existing kids aren't suffering, I have asked plenty of them including my own. The dynamics of the school may have shifted somewhat but this needn't mean negatively. It would be great to see people showing support for each other in times of need rather than purely looking for reasons to moan, gain something or just cause grief. Jeremy should be patted on the back for his efforts to welcome the new children and their parents without getting it from all sides! We should all be so lucky to have such opportunity if needed. Think about it...if half the energy used on this forum was focused on being constructive.... people may be pleasantly surprised with the resulting effect.

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted, please do not use this forum to advertise your business.

[rysamui]

Jeremy, sorry headmaster BluewaterSamui your silence is deafening. What compensation consideration are you giving to existing school childrens parents for the sudden change in dynamics of your school whilst tapping up potentail new students?.

Charity and public service my arse, profiteering and speculating more likely.

[Boo]

I would suggest that if you are a parent at Bluewater that you contact the school directly to raise your questions.

[TonyMontana]

It took a while with the usual flaming and bickering but eventually we got some good first hand information of value.

Even though this is a very important issue for many people, especially parents and children involved in the aftermath of the Open Gates closure, I am still amazed to read many of the posts in this thread and the foul language used.

Also people that have nothing to do with this situation at all, still seams to be experts in finding a solution to the problems.

As an example a so called “Super Moderator” writes;

“IMO any existing BW parent who get narked over the school taking in opengate kids for 2 weeks need to get their head examined & show a bit of compassion & sympathy to those kids who got left hanging through no fault of their own”

Totally unbelievable…

As far as I have been informed, the solution lied within the perimeters of Panyadee, Bluewater and possibly Lamai Learning Centre.

I met both Phil Jenkins and Jeremy Lees and have only good things to say about both of them.

Still Phil came to the conclusion that Panyadee did not have the facilities and resources to accept the large group of students left stranded from Open Gates.

Jeremy came to a different conclusion and accepted, in his own words, more than 45 new students.

Does this make Jeremy to a man full of compassion, empathy and a shrewd businessman and Phil lack all these qualities?

Of course not, I am sure the question and the problem is a far more complicated than that.

Adding 45+ students to a small school is a big issue and of course the commitment doesn’t end after these two weeks as many seams to think.

These students cannot be kicked out after the end of the second term, unless there has not been a previous agreement in that matter.

Also adding such a large amount of students will of course effect everyone involved, students, teachers and parents.

Unless Jeremy got 5-6 spare classrooms and can hire the same amount of teachers, the education situation for the existing BW students will be very much effected, since the student : teacher ratio will increase.

The good thing about this whole situation is that now we got a thread with both Headmaster Jeremy Lees and Panyadee owner Khun Siwapong writing in the thread.

So my suggestion is that we use this opportunity to ask them relevant questions regarding both the schools future plans, in what direction they are headed, tuition fees etc. etc.

As a parent myself, I am very interested in getting some answers from the both above mentioned persons in the questions suggested to enable me as a parent to make the best possible choice of education for my own kids.

Please feel free to add more relevant questions – but PLEASE keep the flaming and bickering away.

Edited March 25, 2009 by TonyMontana

[Boo]

Interesting that you have chosen to focus on my post here TonyMontana but I am not sure what being a moderator has got to do with my personal opinion on this subject as there is no flaming or bickering in the post you have chosen to quote, so I have to conclude that you have some other motive in bothering to quote it.

Whatever your reason, I like many others have a personal interest in the development of the education structure on Samui & am pleased to see that there are schools able to adapt to the changing environment & that they are not solely focused on money making & have some interest in student welfare too.

[visionquesthai]

Jeremy, sorry headmaster BluewaterSamui your silence is deafening. What compensation consideration are you giving to existing school childrens parents for the sudden change in dynamics of your school whilst tapping up potentail new students?.

Charity and public service my arse, profiteering and speculating more likely.

As in previous post...I'm a parent at BW, have been since the beginning. Very sad you behave like this. It's two bloody weeks and a help to others. Give it a rest!!!!!! Don't speak for others, thank you.

[sbk]

Unsubstantiated defamatory gossip has been removed. Please do not post in this manner again.

[Pilchard]

Jeremy, sorry headmaster BluewaterSamui your silence is deafening. What compensation consideration are you giving to existing school childrens parents for the sudden change in dynamics of your school whilst tapping up potentail new students?.

Charity and public service my arse, profiteering and speculating more likely.

Why does it have to be one or the other , 10 days of minor disruption to help some people out and with an eye to the future.

I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if BW had to close due to lack of students and prob blame the HM for not running the place right.

[concerned]

May I take this opportunity to try and answer some posts with regards to events that happened this week.

I was informed of the imminent closure of the Open Gates Primary School at the same time as the parents of the children at Open Gates on the afternoon of Friday 13th March.

Immediately following this my staff started to be contacted by a number of concerned parents from Open Gates. After numerous calls and requests from parents I informed all concerned that Bluewater would enrol children affected by the closure of Open Gates from Wednesday. This decision was made to allow my office staff, my teachers and me the time to plan for the new enrollment of children as well as discuss the options available to the parents from Open Gates and to ensure the smoothest of possible transitions given the circumstances for the children affected.

I have spoken with the majority of parents who have been affected and they have informed me that they have paid for either the current term or the year unsure if they will be able to gain a refund, I must stress that this is only what I have been informed. At the same time a number of the children have been very upset, understandably.

For this reason I made the decision to allow all of the children at Open Gates affected by the closure the opportunity to finish their term at Bluewater at no extra charge other than for uniform and lunch fees. I made this decision because I believe that the stress for the parents concerned with having to find a new school for their children at such short notice was more than enough in itself without the financial burden of having to find more money to pay for more school fees which as I understood had already been paid.

I was then informed on Tuesday 17th March that the Open Gates Secondary school had closed with immediate effect. My office staff were again inundated with calls from concerned parents, especially with parents of children currently studying for their IGCSE examinations.

My staff have as of today - Friday 20th March - enrolled over 45 students following the closure of Open Gates. They have worked late into the night for most of the week to ensure the process for the children has been as smooth as feasibly possible given the circumstances.

I do hope that now that the dust has settled, the children can now at least concentrate on the final two weeks of their term in a school environment where they can continue to learn. In the mean time I hope that the parents involved can visit all the schools on the Island to make an informed decision with regards to which school they will feel comfortable with for their children from next term onwards, whether it be Bluewater, Panyadee, Samui Centre of Learning, Oonrak, St Josephs or another school either on Samui or further afield.

I believe that Koh Samui needs a rich choice of schools to cater for the ever expanding and diverse international and local community on the Island. Each school on Samui currently offers its own personal touch and style which will attract some parents and not others. This is the same in any community around the world and we are lucky that Samui has this choice for parents.

At the same time I hope that the football matches that we are playing between each other continue, incidentally we were asked to join the football match mentioned in a previous post but due to prior commitments we were unable to, although we were able to join in another such event in December of last year in Lipa Noi which was a very enjoyable and rewarding experience for all the students involved.

With regards to the question of which examining body a school following the National Curriculum of England can choose from there are a number of institutions from the UK for these schools to choose from. Open Gates was an accredited Cambridge International Centre as is Panyadee now. Bluewater has chosen to be, and is, an accredited Edexcel International Examinations Centre as is Bangkok Patana and Regents to name a few known schools in Thailand as well as Dulwich College in China, again it is for each individual school to choose, each membership comes with an annual fee and ongoing fees depending on the organisation, payable by the school.

These organisations are private British companies but are regulated by the British Government via the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA). They give schools outside of the UK the opportunity for their students to sit examinations and follow a curriculum that is designed along the lines of the National Curriculum of England and in the case of Secondary schools such as Bluewater they give the students the opportunity to sit examinations such as the IGCSE and GCE (more commonly known as A Levels - for University entrance).

As an example of other roles these organisations play Edexcel has recently been awarded the contract to run the UK annual SAT's tests by the British government and Cambridge Examinations itself has been developing a new type of A Level examination called the Pre-U under the sponsorship of the British Government which is currently being trialed by a number of private and state schools in the UK.

That said none of the above organisations can 'licence' a school. Only the Thai Ministry of Education can do that as we are in their country following a different curriculum to that of the Thai Education System. I know there is an ongoing debate about such licensing requirements, especially on Samui. Just to clarify, a bilingual licence is a seperate licence to that of an International licence. The International licence issued by the Thai Ministry of Education formally allows a school to follow a different curriculum (ie another countries curriculum such as England or the USA or Sweden for example) than that of the curriculum of the Kingdom of Thailand along with alot of other requirements.

I hope that all of the current schools on Samui that are following the National Curriculum of England (It is the curriculum of choice of the majority of English speaking International schools around the world) can achieve this status in the near future. It can only be good for the Island. I know the process is very long and detailed, which is an extremely good thing. We ourselves started the application process over a year ago and I will not comment any further as it is for the Thai Ministry of Education to make their decision in the coming months. Furthermore as I understand other schools on the Island are in the application process as well which I believe can only be a good thing for the community as a whole.

I am sorry for the length of this post, I do not normally like to post but given the exceptional circumstances I feel that it is neccessary and I hope also informative.

Mr Jeremy Lees PGCE BSc (Hons)

Headmaster

Bluewater

While I heartily applaud you helping out the students from Open Gates and your astute business sense in doing so, don't you think it would be better to be more honest about your chances of becoming an "International" school. Your website somewhat misleadingly describes you as an "International School" whereas, as you say you have no licence to be described as such. Furthermore you say that you have an application pending to obtain one. Would it not have been better to be more open and realistic about your chances of achieving this goal, when I think you must know that in order to obtain such a licence you are unable to comply with certain criteria under current Thai Education Ministry regulations. Amongst other things, you do not sit on a big enough plot of land to comply. Your vicinity to night entertainment venues would preclude you from complying and you would need to have a Thai Headmaster, which you currently do not have.

I fully appreciate that not having this licence does in no way mean that you are not an excellent school. However, your lack of transparency on this issue does little to increase your credence on other issues that you discuss.

[HeadmasterOnSamui]

I am sorry if my silence is deafening for some forum posters. Although I am alerted by many people about postings that appear on Thai Visa, as rule I try not to get involved. I think in the long run it is counter productive if the Headmaster or Owner or even Teacher of any school be it in on Samui or further afield becomes embroiled in forums trying to argue for or against some or other issue.

The first time I replied to Thai Visa was when my qualifications - BSc (Hons) in Laser Physics and Optoelectronics from St Andrews University and subsequent PGCE were questioned by a post. I felt this was a slur on my qualifications and as such I felt it neccessary to reply.

The second reply was last week following on from the closure of Open Gates and the strife it caused all concerned.

I have since read the continued arguements for and against my decision as well as the other issues that have been raised.

I am worried that again this forum is becoming a slanging match between concerned parents, individuals and alike who quite rightly are concerned about the goings on with regards to education on Samui and the merits of each establishment. I hope this post can manage to finish soon before it gets out of hand and causes offence to some or all concerned.

Bluewater has chosen to apply for the International School licence rather than the Bilingual licence, which as a previous poster has quite rightly stated has its own number of strict regulations that need to be adhered to. Land, class sizes, curriculum documentation, structural regulations... the list is very exhaustive.

Although you may feel I am ducking the issue I do not want to start having to justify our licence application and the regulations that we appear to fulfill or not as the case may be. They are legal requirements as set down by the Ministy of Education and they alone are the deciding authority.

I think now everyone knows Bluewater applied for the International Licence a year ago so when the decision comes out in the near future from the Thai Ministry of Education we will all know if Bluewater has been successful or not, until then I hope you understand that I really cannot comment on it further.

As to the question of the sudden influx of children to Bluewater following on from the sudden closure of Open Gates, my decision to accept them was based on my knowledge of Bluewater's capacity with its current teachers and classrooms and the number of children that had been left without out a school from Open Gates.

Without being perceived to be advertising, over the last year Bluewater has put in place a great deal of investment in order to have single year group classes from Kindergarten all the way to Senior school level which allows it to have a current capacity for 260 students (currently only our Year 5 and 6 class is together although this will split in Sep 09). We are now currently at 195 students which is still well short of the schools capacity.

The school does not allow its class sizes to go above 20 students and this remains the case. The largest influx of children in one Year group from Open Gates was 6 children, with some year groups only increasing by 1 child.

That said we have had to open a Fourth Kindergarten class and we may even have to open a fifth class in September judging by enquiries for next year. However we have always planned for this and already have the classrooms ready for this expansion. We had a waiting list of approx 7 children last week for the Kindergarten hence I believe the decision to open the new class now and allow the children to integrate with the other classes was the correct one.

I have had a meeting with a number of Bluewater parents who are rightly concerned about the sudden influx. They are quite justified in their concerns both with me offering the last two weeks of term for free to affected parents and the sudden increase in numbers and I only hope that the continued hard work and professionalism from my staff and teachers can allay these fears for them in the long term.

I can only urge all who have a concern or query with regards to any issues raised on this forum to visit the schools in question and make an informed decision based on that visit.

Mr Jeremy Lees BSc (Hons) PGCE

Headmaster

Bluewater

[sbk]

Thank you very much for your comprehensive response.

And that, I think, is enough of that. If anyone has any further questions feel free to PM the poster, call or email the school directly.

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