Uk Settlement

[Bukseeda]

Bad news I'm afraid

My Wife got visa granted but her 15 year old daughter didn't. They say didn't show Sole responsibility and no reason for her to go...........which is rubbish based on the info we provided stating that there is no one if Thailand to look after her if her Mother is in the UK. Appeal papers being faxed today and more papers and letters from family will be at the Embassy this week.

To say we are gutted would be an understatement, we wish to go to the UK for me to develop my business but we can't leave my step daughter here so basically stalemate

Will post more when finished getting docs together for Embassy

GOOD LUCK to those waiting

what a nightmare. good luck mate - there has been success with appeals and i think you can take comfort from the fact that you know the application was legitimate so it's only a matter of time.

[idmilla]

Bad news I'm afraid

My Wife got visa granted but her 15 year old daughter didn't. They say didn't show Sole responsibility and no reason for her to go...........which is rubbish based on the info we provided stating that there is no one if Thailand to look after her if her Mother is in the UK. Appeal papers being faxed today and more papers and letters from family will be at the Embassy this week.

To say we are gutted would be an understatement, we wish to go to the UK for me to develop my business but we can't leave my step daughter here so basically stalemate

Will post more when finished getting docs together for Embassy

GOOD LUCK to those waiting

Hi tjthai, seems a crazy decision, best of luck with the appeal and please keep us informed.

[idmilla]

Bad news I'm afraid

My Wife got visa granted but her 15 year old daughter didn't. They say didn't show Sole responsibility and no reason for her to go...........which is rubbish based on the info we provided stating that there is no one if Thailand to look after her if her Mother is in the UK. Appeal papers being faxed today and more papers and letters from family will be at the Embassy this week.

To say we are gutted would be an understatement, we wish to go to the UK for me to develop my business but we can't leave my step daughter here so basically stalemate

Will post more when finished getting docs together for Embassy

GOOD LUCK to those waiting

Can I ask if the Thai Father is still around? I have a friend in a very similar situation with a 15 year old step son applying who I am sure would be very interested in your situation, in that case the Thai father died several years ago so I am assuming that deals with the sole responsibility issue.

[tjthai]

Thanks Idmilla

Yes the Thai Father is around but has not had any dealings for the majority of his Daughter's life. I do believe with regards your friend that if one of the parents is deceased it should make sole responsibility easy to show.

Trying not to pin our hopes on a speedy decision but feel that with further documents from family that we can 'prove' that there are serious and compelling reasons why my Wife's daughter has to remain with us.

It's all so draining. Over 11 weeks wait and then no interview or request for extra documents and then a refusal which seems to completely ignore the facts!

I will collect my thoughts and update asap.

[bobrussell]

Sorry to hear the news - we are waiting for results of applications for my wife and step-daughter (9yrs) - her father died (on a motorbike) before she was born - he is obviously not on the birth certificate so I hope this will be enough. I do not know how death certificates work in Thailand but my concern is that the ECO may use this as an excuse for rejection. It shows just how little confidence there is in the system that common sense is replaced by pettyness and disbelief - they seem to assume that most people are trying to pull a fast one.

Contact your MP - explain what has happened. Get the appeal in but sometimes contact from a supportive MP to the MP UKBA hotline can get them to take a closer look at an application at the first review by the ECM in Bangkok.

The system is so family unfriendly and needs to be changed. We are lucky that we have an MP who is very unhappy with the actions of the UKBA and he has been very supportive.

Good luck!

[tjthai]

Hi bob

I would think regarding the birth certificate your Wife should be fine but I hesitate to say anything anymore given this worst case scenario!

I wish you the best of luck. I will update with info soon......soonish!

[tjthai]

Hi all

Just wondered if anyone here, after a settlement refusal, had actually handed in their additional paperwork at the embassy or whether emailed/posted?

Planning on doing this Thursday or Friday but don't trust email, postmen but do trust ourselves - and we're only down in Hua Hin

Cheers

[potter09]

Sorry to hear the news - we are waiting for results of applications for my wife and step-daughter (9yrs) - her father died (on a motorbike) before she was born - he is obviously not on the birth certificate so I hope this will be enough. I do not know how death certificates work in Thailand but my concern is that the ECO may use this as an excuse for rejection. It shows just how little confidence there is in the system that common sense is replaced by pettyness and disbelief - they seem to assume that most people are trying to pull a fast one.

Contact your MP - explain what has happened. Get the appeal in but sometimes contact from a supportive MP to the MP UKBA hotline can get them to take a closer look at an application at the first review by the ECM in Bangkok.

The system is so family unfriendly and needs to be changed. We are lucky that we have an MP who is very unhappy with the actions of the UKBA and he has been very supportive.

Good luck!

As far as I understand it,when ones dies in a hospital (eg.following an accident),the relevant hospital issues a death certificate which should then be taken to the Amphur where they certify & stamp the same on the deceased person's Census book. Further, even if the natural father is not alive at the time of a child's birth, his name could be entered on the birth certificate as the deceased father. Trust,the ECO will have to be satisfied that the deceased person was the child's natural father based on the documentary evidence available to him/her,so there will not be any custody issue in the future. However, your generalisation that "they seem to assume that most people are trying to pull a fast one" lacks a strong evidentiary basis especially given the fact that overwhelming majority(>90%) of settlement visa applications are succesful at first attempt. I wish you all the best with your applications.

[paulyturner]

Hi Room

WEll its been a loooong time since I posted on the site, and in that time I've had a beautiful baby son born who is now 9 months old and also have been married to my darling wife for a whole month now!!

We have just begun our settlement visa application and I have been with my darling girl since i met her in uk in 2007, she voluntarily went home early 2008 and since then of course we have contant contact and ive visited thailand a total of 5 times since she returned home, I've got a lawyer in UK involved who rates my chances of her returning on first time of application at 50/50 raising to a 90% probability upon appeal. I'm a solvent individual with a good job and my lad has a UK and Thai passport. I guess the anxieties will lay in how they view the evidence I have submitted, of which I have absolutley masses.

My concern is what extra evidence I would have to obtain upon appeal, as I have literally covered every conceivable angle, My case is complicated for several reasons, really I'm wondering what the appeals process goes into? maybe I shouldnt be negative but im just thinking of worst case scenario, no-one will be more elated than I if she gets accepted in 4 months or so, hope the post doesnt sound too negative as I'm a very positive person, just realistic maybe? Its really a case of needing to know other peoples experiences of more complicated cases, please feel free to private message me if you would rather not speak in the public forum.

Thanks guys i'll post the application date as soon as that parts done.

[simiUK]

Hi all

Just wondered if anyone here, after a settlement refusal, had actually handed in their additional paperwork at the embassy or whether emailed/posted?

Planning on doing this Thursday or Friday but don't trust email, postmen but do trust ourselves - and we're only down in Hua Hin

Cheers

gutted for you TJ looks like the July folks are hitting hurdles after all last months successes. Suggest if you can submit additional papers and your appeal in person do so. ive been trying to fax stuff in advance of my misses' interview last couple of days from the UK without success. have they given you all the relevant AIT appeal papers with the correct supplementary notes? for settlement applications in or out of country you have full rights of appeal including the Human Rights convention clauses applying to the Right to family life. having been through the AIT beaurocracy in the UK i can testify to their competence issues - the papers they sent to us got returned to their office in Leicester "undelivered" as someone there contrived to input my address on their system as an "Immigration Detention Centre"!!! which further protracted the process for us. also; the timeframes they work to for "out of UK" appeals are significantly longer than those they apply to "in UK" appeals where the system has been truncated primarily to accelerate deportation of hopeless asylum appeals...i.e. they'll fast track you if youre in england but if you're not its going to take at least 6 months im afraid... best bet is to focus your efforts on getting the ECM to review your case and overturn the decision... best of luck mate and keep your chin up!

[enquirer]

It is so sad that everyone here has a much loved "applicant", in my case my beloved daughter-in-law who has transformed my disabled son's life............... but it may not happen easily.

She is strong, loving, employable, has UK degrees and diplomas, but it may not happen without endless expense and lengthy appeals.

Just a brief complaint.

[sumrit]

Thanks Idmilla

Yes the Thai Father is around but has not had any dealings for the majority of his Daughter's life. I do believe with regards your friend that if one of the parents is deceased it should make sole responsibility easy to show.

Trying not to pin our hopes on a speedy decision but feel that with further documents from family that we can 'prove' that there are serious and compelling reasons why my Wife's daughter has to remain with us.

It's all so draining. Over 11 weeks wait and then no interview or request for extra documents and then a refusal which seems to completely ignore the facts!

I will collect my thoughts and update asap.

I think you might be confusing responsibility with custody. In Thailand although a parent may have sole custody of their child in practise many children live with the grandparents with the parent living somewhere else and it's actually the grandparents who have 'day to day' responsibilty for the upbringing of that child with the parent having very little, if any, imput.

When somebody is applying for a visa for their child the British Embassy are asking for evidence that not only do they have custody but also that they have day to day responsibility for that childs upbringing.

When we applied for my wife and daughters visas we provided details that she lived permanently with us in Thailand, provided details of our financial commitment, supplying things like school fee/school bus receipts and details of family holidays etc we'd had together. We also got a document from the Amphur where my wife, family members and a prominent member of her village all made a statement that my wife had always had day to day responsibility for her daughters upbringing. I believe that the Embassy have actually asked for this Amphur document from several applicants over the last few months when it hasn't been supplied originally. Even if the child lives with the grandparents, for example, you still have to show that as a parent you constantly in contact with your child and are responsible for finance, schooling etc and the day to day decision making.

[tjthai]

Ooops, yes, sorry

My mind is a little frazzled at the moment

[bobrussell]

My wife had phone call from Embassy telling her that they were processing her (and daughters Visa). Questioned about refusal to enter at Heathrow because of 'wrong type of visa' earlier in summer, told they would phone H'row. Further phone call later saying visas GRANTED!!!!!!!!! but warned may be delayed on returning to UK for further investigation!!!

As far as comment about ECO/ECM's not trusting peoples answers look at the comments on this forum. I appreciate there are people trying it on and paperwork is often not complete also the comments are probably one sided. I also accept that 90% are passed first time - this is only what is expected as the majority of people will be married and that is hard to argue with!

[idmilla]

My wife had phone call from Embassy telling her that they were processing her (and daughters Visa). Questioned about refusal to enter at Heathrow because of 'wrong type of visa' earlier in summer, told they would phone H'row. Further phone call later saying visas GRANTED!!!!!!!!! but warned may be delayed on returning to UK for further investigation!!!

As far as comment about ECO/ECM's not trusting peoples answers look at the comments on this forum. I appreciate there are people trying it on and paperwork is often not complete also the comments are probably one sided. I also accept that 90% are passed first time - this is only what is expected as the majority of people will be married and that is hard to argue with!

Congratulations Bob and good luck for you and your wife.

[tjthai]

Hi all

Just wondered if anyone here, after a settlement refusal, had actually handed in their additional paperwork at the embassy or whether emailed/posted?

Planning on doing this Thursday or Friday but don't trust email, postmen but do trust ourselves - and we're only down in Hua Hin

Cheers

gutted for you TJ looks like the July folks are hitting hurdles after all last months successes. Suggest if you can submit additional papers and your appeal in person do so. ive been trying to fax stuff in advance of my misses' interview last couple of days from the UK without success. have they given you all the relevant AIT appeal papers with the correct supplementary notes? for settlement applications in or out of country you have full rights of appeal including the Human Rights convention clauses applying to the Right to family life. having been through the AIT beaurocracy in the UK i can testify to their competence issues - the papers they sent to us got returned to their office in Leicester "undelivered" as someone there contrived to input my address on their system as an "Immigration Detention Centre"!!! which further protracted the process for us. also; the timeframes they work to for "out of UK" appeals are significantly longer than those they apply to "in UK" appeals where the system has been truncated primarily to accelerate deportation of hopeless asylum appeals...i.e. they'll fast track you if youre in england but if you're not its going to take at least 6 months im afraid... best bet is to focus your efforts on getting the ECM to review your case and overturn the decision... best of luck mate and keep your chin up!

Thanks Simi, we have extra papers now and feel that perhaps we should have provided more 'evidence' of sole responsibility than we did. However we did, I think, provide such for "serious and compelling reasons" for my Stepdaughter to travel with her Mother. Anyway I think we have everything covered now and going to get the docs emailed to the Embassy tomorrow and delivered by hand next week!

I wish you and your missus good luck with the interview.

Will keep you updated

[bobrussell]

Good luck!

[potter09]

As far as comment about ECO/ECM's not trusting peoples answers look at the comments on this forum. I appreciate there are people trying it on and paperwork is often not complete also the comments are probably one sided. I also accept that 90% are passed first time - this is only what is expected as the majority of people will be married and that is hard to argue with!

Evidence of marriage per se is insufficient to grant a SV visa;probably you know, all of the other criteria(eg.maintenance, accomodation etc) too need to be satisfied. So >90% success rate at first attempt cannot merely be due to the fact that majority of applicants are married;nor can it be "expected" that >90% success rate is due to the fact majority of people are married,thus other relevant criteria are given less weight. However, if your previous notion "they seem to assume that most people are trying to pull a fast one" has any validity,then it is most unlikely that >90% success rate could be achieved. However, I note you now acknowledge that some views expressed in this forum can be biased and possibly unsubstantiated. Some also continue to vent their frustrations by villifying the ECOs without showing us the true picture.

[bobrussell]

I have a very 'jaundiced' view of the UKBA and how it functions - in the last year despite a good immigration record, good housing, good income and a well documented long-standing relationship my wife and daughter were refused entry at Heathrow and held for many hours because a member of staff there decided that the purpose of the visa had changed. In effect it was decided she was lying (not something I have known her do in all the years we have been together), their visas were cancelled and only with major pressure was a compromise arrived at to allow her stay to go ahead as planned.

Do I trust their judgement? Within reason but with limited confidence. Do I believe family applications should sit around in a pile waiting as long as they can within the target 90 working days? No I do not especially if young children are affected.

Do you work for the Embassy?

Impressed? Not at all!

Edited September 25, 2009 by bobrussell

[7by7]

Do I believe family applications should sit around in a pile waiting as long as they can within the target 90 working days? No I do not especially if young children are affected.

Until early this year the usual turnaround for settlement visas was 5 to 10 working days. For reasons unknown to members here (but speculated on in this thread and others) there was a sudden upsurge in all types of applications leading to longer processing times.

Generally, settlement applications are dealt with in the order they are received; the obvious exception being extreme compassionate circumstances. Other than that, who else do you think should jump the queue?

To suggest that the visa section is deliberately ignoring and delaying processing applications for as long as possible is ridiculous nonsense.

[uaelaelil]

Got our first appeal letter through today, with instructions for the ECO/ECM to reconsider and if not to pass the pack/bundle to the AIT.

This can take 4 months =/ then a additional 2 months to set a date once the AIT have the bundle. looking at the rough dates/lead times given in the letter =/

But lets hope the ECO / ECM do reconsider with the additional paperwork we have added.

[tjthai]

Hi uaelaelil

Did the letter come from Bangkok or the AIT?

How did you send in your appeal to the embassy?

We faxed the appeal papers over and tried to email the embassy on Friday but got delivery error stating the spam was too big at 4mb........even though it was 'only' 3.3mb....and obviously accusing my appeal email, with conclusive evidence, of being spam hasn't exactly lightened my mood

We are taking the papers to the embassy on Monday so hope to be able to give them in so fingers crossed.

Good luck to you both with the whole process. It is just so demoralizing having waited so long only to have to join another waiting game

[Jaggg88]

Do I believe family applications should sit around in a pile waiting as long as they can within the target 90 working days? No I do not especially if young children are affected.

Until early this year the usual turnaround for settlement visas was 5 to 10 working days. For reasons unknown to members here (but speculated on in this thread and others) there was a sudden upsurge in all types of applications leading to longer processing times.

Generally, settlement applications are dealt with in the order they are received; the obvious exception being extreme compassionate circumstances. Other than that, who else do you think should jump the queue?

To suggest that the visa section is deliberately ignoring and delaying processing applications for as long as possible is ridiculous nonsense.

When do you think they'll get back to 5 - 10 working days as according to posts on here the surge in settlement visas died off around June but applications are still taking the best part of 90 days?

[7by7]

No idea, I'm afraid.

Three things to remember, though.

1) It was a surge in all types of applications, not just settlement. I read that one of the problems was the change in the rules for students which resulted in many student applications having to be resubmitted (I think that was theoldgit who posted that).

2) The members who have posted here represent a very small percentage of the total number of applications. Even if the number of applications have dropped, there is still a backlog to clear.

3) The official advice is, and has been for at least the last 9 years that I've been taking an interest, to allow three months for a settlement application to be processed. As can be seen from this thread they have not been able to hit hat target in some instances, but seem to have done so in most cases.

[simiUK]

No idea, I'm afraid.

Three things to remember, though.

1) It was a surge in all types of applications, not just settlement. I read that one of the problems was the change in the rules for students which resulted in many student applications having to be resubmitted (I think that was theoldgit who posted that).

2) The members who have posted here represent a very small percentage of the total number of applications. Even if the number of applications have dropped, there is still a backlog to clear.

3) The official advice is, and has been for at least the last 9 years that I've been taking an interest, to allow three months for a settlement application to be processed. As can be seen from this thread they have not been able to hit hat target in some instances, but seem to have done so in most cases.

yeah... they must have been snowed under with student applications... they processed a total of 4 during the whole of august!? just been reading through the last internal audit report of the bangkok embassy visa services department (will post the link if anyones interseted). its very damning about refusal notices not complying with immigration rules and significant discrepancies in %referals/refusals between different ECO's... the report identifies bangkok as one of the worst performing visa services units with regards to these points stating it must do "much, much better"... there's a surprise

[tjthai]

Hi simiuk

Would be interested in anything that can help us. Our ECO said that he was satisfied that my 15 year old stepdaughter would be cared for in Thailand even though we categorically said that there was no one here that could look after her. He did not even explain how or why he came to that conclusion but simply said he was satisfied so therefore refused. My Wife and I will not/cannot leave her behind so what can we do?

As stated in the refusal no interview was necessary but how about if we want one? How do we get an appointment with someone at the visa section? Anyone know?

My blood seems to boil more and more each day

[theoldgit]

yeah... they must have been snowed under with student applications... they processed a total of 4 during the whole of august!? just been reading through the last internal audit report of the bangkok embassy visa services department (will post the link if anyones interseted).

Yes, please.

[7by7]

yeah... they must have been snowed under with student applications... they processed a total of 4 during the whole of august!?

I did say that I had read it here, not anywhere official. Also, any such applications would be earlier in the year than August.

Personally, I think that if one is quoting any sort of official figures it is always a good idea to provide a link to those figures; so I echo OG's request.

[7by7]

Our ECO said that he was satisfied that my 15 year old stepdaughter would be cared for in Thailand even though we categorically said that there was no one here that could look after her.

Very difficult to provide specific advice without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says. Can you post it? (If you have already posted it elsewhere, my apologies; can you direct me to it?)

Who has the child been living with?

Who has taken the major decisions regarding her upbringing?

Who has custody of her?

What evidence did you supply to show that your wife has been exercising sole responsibility?

See SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

I'm afraid that you cannot ask for an interview, either before or after the decision has been made. Your only option now is the submit the appeal and hope that the refusal is overturned. If not, then you will be able to put your case to the appeal tribunal.

[uaelaelil]

Hi uaelaelil

Did the letter come from Bangkok or the AIT?

How did you send in your appeal to the embassy?

Our letter came from the AIT as we had submitted our appeal in the UK via mail.

So for us were looking at almost a 6 month wait now =/

Good Luck for Monday tjthai, Crazy for the ECO to even consider splitting up a family.