2009 Formula One Season

[Mosha]

One thing that I want to know. While watching the GPs. They keep plugging a competition, and the prize is a holiday to Samwi. Where is Samwi?

[rixalex]

Today Mosley is saying, or at least implying, that he may reconsider his earlier pledge to stand down, based on the fact that he is unhappy with the way FOTA has spoken to the media about the deal they brokered this week. He thinks they misrepresented the outcome.

My goodness me! Just what is wrong with this man? Is he so he1l bent on destroying the sport for the sake of his own ego? Hasn't he done enough damage already? Quit when you are ahead man! OK, correction, quit when you are behind - just quit <deleted>!!!

[Mosha]

I saw that and I thought exactly the same.

[Mosha]

Oh boy another story from Plant F1. Max must be hearing voices. He claims people from around the world are asking him to stay on, and he calls the FOTA guys loonies.

[Mosha]

The F1 rumour mill has it the Ferrari are going to announce that Alonso has signed a 5 year deal at the Monza GP. If that's correct who is out?

[bangkokrick]

Oh boy another story from Plant F1. Max must be hearing voices. He claims people from around the world are asking him to stay on, and he calls the FOTA guys loonies.

Scary stuff!

Motor racing chief Max Mosley claims he is under pressure to stay on as head of Formula One's governing body after opponents rushed to write his obituary following a peace deal last week.

They made the mistake of dancing on my grave before I was buried," the 69-year-old told the Mail on Sunday.

The International Automobile Federation president suggested the Formula One Teams Association, led by Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, had made a serious miscalculation.

"It's no good the teams getting a PR agency to claim I am dead and buried when I am standing here as large as life. I am under pressure now from all over the world to stand for re-election," he said.

"I do genuinely want to stop. But if there is going to be a big conflict with the car industry, for example, with the FOTA teams, then I won't stop," he added.

"I will do whatever I have to do. It's not in my nature to walk away from a fight.

Cheers, Rick

[Mosha]

I'm hearing Toyota may pull the plug on the Fuja Speedway, good back to Suzaka (I hope I got that right). The weather spoils the race at the speedway. I don't mind a wet race, but there's wet , and there's wet.

[F1fanatic]

The F1 rumour mill has it the Ferrari are going to announce that Alonso has signed a 5 year deal at the Monza GP. If that's correct who is out?

I hope not.

Alonso is absolutely the wrong fit for Ferrari. Yes, he is a great racer and I've utmost respect for his talents - but he is far too ready to disown his team (and throw his toys out of his pram) when things go wrong.

Having said that, I suppose Ferrari has changed so much since the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt days that presumably (and sadly) it is no longer the 100% 'one for all and all for one' team it used to be.

If they have lost the wonderful team spirit that they used to share, I think its a tremendous shame as I've no doubt its a large part of the reason for their incredible success from 2000 - 2004.

As for whether Massa or Kimi will leave first - its anyone's guess.

Kimi is still the 'big name' with a large fan base (even though he's performed so badly recently) and, lucky or not (depending on your point of view) he won the championship in 2007. And, let's not forget that he was Luca's choice when he replaced Schumi! Luca would look v stupid if he admitted that his choice was a VERY expensive mistake!!

On the other hand, Massa is a lot cheaper and is performing a lot better most of the time, but incredibly badly in the odd few races.

Both are v inconsistent and, IMO, there's not a lot to choose between them.

Edited July 1, 2009 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

The F1 rumour mill has it the Ferrari are going to announce that Alonso has signed a 5 year deal at the Monza GP. If that's correct who is out?

I hope not.

Alonso is absolutely the wrong fit for Ferrari. Yes, he is a great racer and I've utmost respect for his talents - but he is far too ready to disown his team (and throw his toys out of his pram) when things go wrong.

Having said that, I suppose Ferrari has changed so much since the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt days that presumably (and sadly) it is no longer the 100% 'one for all and all for one' team it used to be.

If they have lost the wonderful team spirit that they used to share, I think its a tremendous shame as I've no doubt its a large part of the reason for their incredible success from 2000 - 2004.

As for whether Massa or Kimi will leave first - its anyone's guess.

Kimi is still the 'big name' with a large fan base (even though he's performed so badly recently) and, lucky or not (depending on your point of view) he won the championship in 2007. And, let's not forget that he was Luca's choice when he replaced Schumi! Luca would look v stupid if he admitted that his choice was a VERY expensive mistake!!

On the other hand, Massa is a lot cheaper and is performing a lot better most of the time, but incredibly badly in the odd few races.

Both are v inconsistent and, IMO, there's not a lot to choose between them.

Can't disagree with any of that.

If i were Luca i would get rid of both drivers. Kimi is great but too tempermental and inconsistent - plus his heart just isn't in it - hasn't been for a few seasons. Massa is pretty average and also inconsistent. Just a number two driver really and if it weren't for Kimi having all the bad luck and not really giving a toss, you can guarantee that's all he would be.

They should look to the future and target drivers like Vettel. He would be a good fit for them.

[F1fanatic]

The F1 rumour mill has it the Ferrari are going to announce that Alonso has signed a 5 year deal at the Monza GP. If that's correct who is out?

I hope not.

Alonso is absolutely the wrong fit for Ferrari. Yes, he is a great racer and I've utmost respect for his talents - but he is far too ready to disown his team (and throw his toys out of his pram) when things go wrong.

Having said that, I suppose Ferrari has changed so much since the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt days that presumably (and sadly) it is no longer the 100% 'one for all and all for one' team it used to be.

If they have lost the wonderful team spirit that they used to share, I think its a tremendous shame as I've no doubt its a large part of the reason for their incredible success from 2000 - 2004.

As for whether Massa or Kimi will leave first - its anyone's guess.

Kimi is still the 'big name' with a large fan base (even though he's performed so badly recently) and, lucky or not (depending on your point of view) he won the championship in 2007. And, let's not forget that he was Luca's choice when he replaced Schumi! Luca would look v stupid if he admitted that his choice was a VERY expensive mistake!!

On the other hand, Massa is a lot cheaper and is performing a lot better most of the time, but incredibly badly in the odd few races.

Both are v inconsistent and, IMO, there's not a lot to choose between them.

Can't disagree with any of that.

If i were Luca i would get rid of both drivers. Kimi is great but too tempermental and inconsistent - plus his heart just isn't in it - hasn't been for a few seasons. Massa is pretty average and also inconsistent. Just a number two driver really and if it weren't for Kimi having all the bad luck and not really giving a toss, you can guarantee that's all he would be.

They should look to the future and target drivers like Vettel. He would be a good fit for them.

Agree entirely that Vettel would probably be a good fit - its early days, but he looks v promising. But if you get rid of both drivers (and I agree that there is a good argument for doing exactly that), who would be a good choice for the other driver?

Then again as I said in my last post, I think the 100% TEAM focused days of Ferrari's past are probably over, and if so Alonso would (much as I hate to admit it) be a good choice as he is the best driver on the grid and (I suspect), he would be v happy to move to Ferrari.

[wackysleet]

Vettel is the best prospect out there at the moment and although it may prove to be a temptation too far if he was offered the Ferrari drive I think he would be a fool to accept it at this stage in his career, certainly Ferrari have done nothing this year to entice anyone there and there is no proof that the car will be any better for next year so if the Red Bull is competitive for the rest of this season then hopefully he will stay.

F1fanatic. I would have to disagree about Alonso throwing his toys out of the pram when he moved to Maclaren, I believe it was obvious from the start that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton, I agree with you that Alonso is the best driver on the grid at the moment but Hamilton beat him when they were together so I think he was getting a little extra help that really annoyed Alonso as the No 1 driver, Alonso is my favourite driver and the best but in a years time Vettel will outdrive everyone given a competitive car again, I have said all along that he is the one to watch.

F1, you also said about the 100% team work at Ferrari, which by the way is my favourite team, I would have to disagree that they were "all for one and one for all" Michael was totally for himself even at the expense of his team mates over the years, Ferrari like Maclaren have been guilty of imposing team orders on the No 2 driver on several occasions, and yes I accept that it is important for the team to get as many points as possible but it is wrong when it is so blatant as has happened in the past.

The sooner Ferrari get get rid of Kimi the better, he is far from the best driver out there along with his No 2, although he has out performed Kimi several times recently, Kimi is a very very expensive mistake and Ferrari would do well to look at the up and coming youngsters and get in quick.

[ignis]

Kimi Raikkonen is to make his debut in the Wold Rally Championship at the end of next month when he competes in his native Finland.

Kimi Raikkonen has previously indicated he could consider a future career in the category once he leaves F1.

[rixalex]

F1fanatic. I would have to disagree about Alonso throwing his toys out of the pram when he moved to Maclaren, I believe it was obvious from the start that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton, I agree with you that Alonso is the best driver on the grid at the moment but Hamilton beat him when they were together so I think he was getting a little extra help that really annoyed Alonso as the No 1 driver, Alonso is my favourite driver and the best but in a years time Vettel will outdrive everyone given a competitive car again, I have said all along that he is the one to watch.

Completely disagree with most of this. I don't know how you saw it as obvious that Dennis favoured Hamilton right from the off-set. My feeling was that when they signed Alonso they were 100% convinced that he was their man to deliver many years of championships. They spent quite some time after they had signed Alonso looking for a driver that would compliment and help back up their new star signing. It was by no means a given that Hamilton would have got the seat. They had a number of drivers test for them until ultimately they decided to give the drive to Lewis. I think they did so thinking that Lewis would be like an understudy to Alonso. As i a rookie i think they expected Lewis to make quite a few mistakes in his first season or two but they were prepared to take a punt on the basis that they also had the best driver in the world now with the team.

That's how i think things started. Things only went sour when Lewis started to upstage Alonso. Alonso's complaints at that early time weren't that Lewis was getting preferential treatment, but that as World Champion Alonso expected to not be treated as an equal with Hamilton as was the case, but that he should be getting the benefits of being a number one. In other words, if you give us both equal treatment i can't beat this young dude. When McClaren wouldn't bend to his demands that's when Alonso got the grumps and started doing things like trying to blackmail the team and delaying pit stops during qualifying to prevent Lewis from out-qualifying him. It was around this time that the team did switch the focus to Lewis - they knew that Alonso was history with the team - and besides which Lewis was the one with the best shot of the Championship at that time so it was only natural to get behind him more.

[wackysleet]

F1fanatic. I would have to disagree about Alonso throwing his toys out of the pram when he moved to Maclaren, I believe it was obvious from the start that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton, I agree with you that Alonso is the best driver on the grid at the moment but Hamilton beat him when they were together so I think he was getting a little extra help that really annoyed Alonso as the No 1 driver, Alonso is my favourite driver and the best but in a years time Vettel will outdrive everyone given a competitive car again, I have said all along that he is the one to watch.

Completely disagree with most of this. I don't know how you saw it as obvious that Dennis favoured Hamilton right from the off-set. My feeling was that when they signed Alonso they were 100% convinced that he was their man to deliver many years of championships. They spent quite some time after they had signed Alonso looking for a driver that would compliment and help back up their new star signing. It was by no means a given that Hamilton would have got the seat. They had a number of drivers test for them until ultimately they decided to give the drive to Lewis. I think they did so thinking that Lewis would be like an understudy to Alonso. As i a rookie i think they expected Lewis to make quite a few mistakes in his first season or two but they were prepared to take a punt on the basis that they also had the best driver in the world now with the team.

That's how i think things started. Things only went sour when Lewis started to upstage Alonso. Alonso's complaints at that early time weren't that Lewis was getting preferential treatment, but that as World Champion Alonso expected to not be treated as an equal with Hamilton as was the case, but that he should be getting the benefits of being a number one. In other words, if you give us both equal treatment i can't beat this young dude. When McClaren wouldn't bend to his demands that's when Alonso got the grumps and started doing things like trying to blackmail the team and delaying pit stops during qualifying to prevent Lewis from out-qualifying him. It was around this time that the team did switch the focus to Lewis - they knew that Alonso was history with the team - and besides which Lewis was the one with the best shot of the Championship at that time so it was only natural to get behind him more.

rixalex we will have to beg to differ on this one, when people talk about what Hamilton did in his rookie year is not looking at the whole picture, he has been wholly sponsored by Ron Dennis for years and if you think that Maclaren were ever seriously looking for anyone else to drive the 2nd car then I think your mistaken, I believe that Alonso is a better driver than Hamilton and if I'm right then in equal cars Hamilton would not beat him, numerous drivers have commented on Lewis driving and that he is in his own words disliked by most other drivers, even a couple of weeks ago he said that he was working on his attitude to other drivers.

Most drivers out there know in their hearts that they have no chance of ever winning the WDC but they still take part and most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had, but I would bet that if next year Lewis doesn't have a competitive Maclaren under him he will go, he has too much ego after two good years and now one crap year to put up with it for long.

[rixalex]

rixalex we will have to beg to differ on this one, when people talk about what Hamilton did in his rookie year is not looking at the whole picture, he has been wholly sponsored by Ron Dennis for years and if you think that Maclaren were ever seriously looking for anyone else to drive the 2nd car then I think your mistaken, I believe that Alonso is a better driver than Hamilton and if I'm right then in equal cars Hamilton would not beat him, numerous drivers have commented on Lewis driving and that he is in his own words disliked by most other drivers, even a couple of weeks ago he said that he was working on his attitude to other drivers.

Most drivers out there know in their hearts that they have no chance of ever winning the WDC but they still take part and most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had, but I would bet that if next year Lewis doesn't have a competitive Maclaren under him he will go, he has too much ego after two good years and now one crap year to put up with it for long.

The majority of that post you were commenting on Lewis's character rather than his racing. I appreciate that you don't like the guy and understand your reasons, but i think all of that is clouding your judgement.

You seem to think that sentimentality plays some sort of a part in the decisions teams make. Like the fact that Ron Dennis had played a part in Lewis's early development would somehow mean that Ron would not only give him a seat but would give him better treatment than the World Champion he had just signed. This is nonsense. Teams don't give a crap about doing people a favour. There's too much money at stake. Too many big businesses involved in bank-rolling it all. The only thing they care about is getting the fastest driver and giving him the best car they can.

Alonso absolutely was given at least as much of a chance as Lewis was but he blew it and the pressure and frustration got to him. If you want to talk about egos, look no further than him. He's a driver who is used to being number one and can't handle competition. He must really enjoy his current situation!

Also, you talk about how honourable and decent Jenson is for sticking by his team even through the dark days - urm, have you completely forgotten the whole saga with Williams and BAR? Whilst driving for BAR Jenson signed a two year contract to drive at Williams. BAR however thought he was contracted to drive for them and they fought to keep him despite Jenson publicly saying he wanted to leave. Then would you know it, the BAR team start giving Jenson a better car and at the same time the Williams team looks to be on a downward slide. Low and behold, Jenson changes his mind and decides in fact he'd really rather stay where he is.

Don't get me wrong - i'm not saying i think any other driver would have done differently. The drivers have to take care of themselves at the end of the day and they naturally want to be in the fastest car they can. The drivers are no more sentimental than the teams, and unlike fans, they don't remain loyal to teams - not unless it's to their advantage of course.

[wackysleet]

rixalex we will have to beg to differ on this one, when people talk about what Hamilton did in his rookie year is not looking at the whole picture, he has been wholly sponsored by Ron Dennis for years and if you think that Maclaren were ever seriously looking for anyone else to drive the 2nd car then I think your mistaken, I believe that Alonso is a better driver than Hamilton and if I'm right then in equal cars Hamilton would not beat him, numerous drivers have commented on Lewis driving and that he is in his own words disliked by most other drivers, even a couple of weeks ago he said that he was working on his attitude to other drivers.

Most drivers out there know in their hearts that they have no chance of ever winning the WDC but they still take part and most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had, but I would bet that if next year Lewis doesn't have a competitive Maclaren under him he will go, he has too much ego after two good years and now one crap year to put up with it for long.

The majority of that post you were commenting on Lewis's character rather than his racing. I appreciate that you don't like the guy and understand your reasons, but i think all of that is clouding your judgement.

You seem to think that sentimentality plays some sort of a part in the decisions teams make. Like the fact that Ron Dennis had played a part in Lewis's early development would somehow mean that Ron would not only give him a seat but would give him better treatment than the World Champion he had just signed. This is nonsense. Teams don't give a crap about doing people a favour. There's too much money at stake. Too many big businesses involved in bank-rolling it all. The only thing they care about is getting the fastest driver and giving him the best car they can.

Alonso absolutely was given at least as much of a chance as Lewis was but he blew it and the pressure and frustration got to him. If you want to talk about egos, look no further than him. He's a driver who is used to being number one and can't handle competition. He must really enjoy his current situation!

Also, you talk about how honourable and decent Jenson is for sticking by his team even through the dark days - urm, have you completely forgotten the whole saga with Williams and BAR? Whilst driving for BAR Jenson signed a two year contract to drive at Williams. BAR however thought he was contracted to drive for them and they fought to keep him despite Jenson publicly saying he wanted to leave. Then would you know it, the BAR team start giving Jenson a better car and at the same time the Williams team looks to be on a downward slide. Low and behold, Jenson changes his mind and decides in fact he'd really rather stay where he is.

Don't get me wrong - i'm not saying i think any other driver would have done differently. The drivers have to take care of themselves at the end of the day and they naturally want to be in the fastest car they can. The drivers are no more sentimental than the teams, and unlike fans, they don't remain loyal to teams - not unless it's to their advantage of course.

rixalex perhaps you should look at Jensons career start, he was contracted to Williams and actually drove in, I think 17 races, he was effectively loaned out by Williams at the end of the season to Benetton later renamed Renault where he stayed for a couple of years until Briattore replaced him with Alonso and stated that there were too many contract problems amongst other things and as he was technically still contracted to Williams but was not given a ride by them he went to Bar, Bar/Honda, Honda where he has remained.

The point being that most sports have contracts that seem to allow teams to get rid of team members and players whenever they want, and vica versa, I maybe wrong here but didn't the FIA hold a meeting to discuss Buttons contract for 2005 and said he was contracted to Bar, now I am prepared to be corrected here but didn't Williams lose the BMW engine at the end of 2004 and the start of season 2005 when BMW bought out the Sauber team, but what I don't remember is that Williams actually cancelled Jensons contract and if they did I cannot find any evidence of it, but if they are saying he signed for them for 2005 then presumably they must have done, I know Button eventually bought out his contract for something like $35 million, but I think he was involved with a contract within a contract but if I'm wrong then I expect someone will put me right, other than that peoples opinions are just that.

[MJo]

Kimi and Massa both have contract until end of next season and Ferrari has commented that these rumours are not worth of a reply. Alonso is rumoured to move to Ferrari if the teams start racing 3 cars per team and this speculation comes again from Spanish media. Nothing new, Spanish papers have been sending Alonso to Ferrari for couple of years now.

Then again there might be something on this and maybe Alonso has made pre deal that he will go to Ferrari after Kimi or Massa is not extended...

Bernie has said he want's Vettel to Ferrari and in my opinion Ferrari might consider Vettel over Alonso as he is young rising star and fast one and potential to be the new Schumi. Alonso then again don't have that many years left in the sport and is propably more expensive to get.

Time will tell...

[rixalex]

rixalex perhaps you should look at Jensons career start, he was contracted to Williams and actually drove in, I think 17 races, he was effectively loaned out by Williams at the end of the season to Benetton later renamed Renault where he stayed for a couple of years until Briattore replaced him with Alonso and stated that there were too many contract problems amongst other things and as he was technically still contracted to Williams but was not given a ride by them he went to Bar, Bar/Honda, Honda where he has remained.

The point being that most sports have contracts that seem to allow teams to get rid of team members and players whenever they want, and vica versa, I maybe wrong here but didn't the FIA hold a meeting to discuss Buttons contract for 2005 and said he was contracted to Bar, now I am prepared to be corrected here but didn't Williams lose the BMW engine at the end of 2004 and the start of season 2005 when BMW bought out the Sauber team, but what I don't remember is that Williams actually cancelled Jensons contract and if they did I cannot find any evidence of it, but if they are saying he signed for them for 2005 then presumably they must have done, I know Button eventually bought out his contract for something like $35 million, but I think he was involved with a contract within a contract but if I'm wrong then I expect someone will put me right, other than that peoples opinions are just that.

Hey wacksleet,

Don't want to get too bogged down in all the nitty gritty of Jenson's past contract business - my memory might not be up to the challenge! - what i do remember and the simple point i was trying to make in all of this was that at one stage we had Jenson fighting to get out of a contract and leave a team (BAR) - doing so all the whilst still actually racing for that team - and then when the prospects at that team improved he did a 360 and fought against the other team (Williams) from making him leave.

Jenson, like all the other drivers, only cares about being in a team that can give him the fastest car possible. Team loyalties don't come into it. To suggest that Jenson is some sort of a noble gentleman in standing by Honda through the dark years without complaining is daft. The truth is there was very little option for Jenson during those years. It's not like he was a World Champion and able to attract the interest of all the big teams. Had Jenson left Honda it probably at best would have been a sideways move. Jenson knew that whilst things were dire, at least the team was backed by a giant of the automotive industry and there was always hope of things coming good. And of course he was also being very well paid which helped cushion the blow!

And as far as him not complaining is concerned, i certainly do recall him commenting on how much of a pig the car was to drive, but the difference was that he wasn't the reigning World Champion and didn't have cameras in his face 24/7 asking him his thoughts. He was largely forgotten about at the back of the pack and media attention was fairly minimal.

What Lewis has been saying about his car is i think what any driver would be saying. All drivers moan about their cars. How many drivers when asked why the car hasn't been performing say "it's not the car, it's me - i'm driving really badly"? I've never heard a driver say that, it's always something like "there's just no grip in the corners" or "we lack top-end speed" i.e. it's the car it's not me! Perhaps Lewis has been more direct and forceful with his comments than others, but let's not forget that the turnaround in the car that McClaren put together from one year to the next is pretty amazing and unusual. To go from being a World Championship winning machine to not just being a bit off the pace, but right at the back of the field is a pretty staggering fall from grace and one that would have any driver feeling frustrated.

Lewis has always been good at giving the team input and encouragement, even down on the factory floor level, with him paying regular visits to Woking and speaking with the staff there. I think he's much more hands-on and of-the-people than a good number of other drivers who just turn up to race the car and then sail off in a luxury yacht. But right now the team has done a bad job with the car and Lewis putting pressure on people to turn things around is no bad thing. There's definitely an element of complacency that creeps in with successful teams and they need to be constantly reminded that without 110% effort from every element of the team, including the driver of course, they won't win anything.

[Mosha]

Oh Bernie, Bernie Bernie. Looks like dementia is setting in.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5414428,00.html

[Mosha]

There is an hilarious video on You Tube where Hitler learns that Hamilton won the WDC.

, caution a lot of swearing. Edited July 5, 2009 by Mosha

[F1fanatic]

Vettel is the best prospect out there at the moment and although it may prove to be a temptation too far if he was offered the Ferrari drive I think he would be a fool to accept it at this stage in his career, certainly Ferrari have done nothing this year to entice anyone there and there is no proof that the car will be any better for next year so if the Red Bull is competitive for the rest of this season then hopefully he will stay.

F1fanatic. I would have to disagree about Alonso throwing his toys out of the pram when he moved to Maclaren, I believe it was obvious from the start that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton, I agree with you that Alonso is the best driver on the grid at the moment but Hamilton beat him when they were together so I think he was getting a little extra help that really annoyed Alonso as the No 1 driver, Alonso is my favourite driver and the best but in a years time Vettel will outdrive everyone given a competitive car again, I have said all along that he is the one to watch.

F1, you also said about the 100% team work at Ferrari, which by the way is my favourite team, I would have to disagree that they were "all for one and one for all" Michael was totally for himself even at the expense of his team mates over the years, Ferrari like Maclaren have been guilty of imposing team orders on the No 2 driver on several occasions, and yes I accept that it is important for the team to get as many points as possible but it is wrong when it is so blatant as has happened in the past.

The sooner Ferrari get get rid of Kimi the better, he is far from the best driver out there along with his No 2, although he has out performed Kimi several times recently, Kimi is a very very expensive mistake and Ferrari would do well to look at the up and coming youngsters and get in quick.

I agree partially with both you and Rivalex on this one.

IMO (for what its worth! ), Alonso and Hamilton were treated equally at the beginning of 2007. Alonso took some time to get used to the car whereas Hamilton, who had been nurtured by Mclaren for a long time, was used to the car from the get-go. Unfortunately in Hungary (I think!), Hamilton ignored team orders during Qualifying and Alonso retaliated by holding him up, denying him the 'final run'. At this point things got nasty and, if rumours are to be believed, Hamilton got stroppy with Ron Dennis and the two sides (Alonso and Hamilton) fell out. At this point Alonso threw his toys out of the pram 'cos he expected (understandably) to be treated as the number 1 driver. (Who can blame him, he joined the team as the reigning world champion!).

IIRC it was around then that Alonso threatened Ron Dennis that he would 'reveal all' about the Ferrari documents unless he was given no. 1 driver status. At this point Ron Dennis decided to 'throw all' behind Hamilton - hence the 'we're racing Alonso - not Ferrari' comment!

Recently, I think Alonso and Hamilton are v similar in so far as they are both more than happy to blame the team when things go wrong. Alonso has been a bit quieter on this subject since the Mclaren debacle, but he was v vocal on this point at Renault previously! Hamilton has also finally realised that blaming the team is not the way to go when every driver needs the team's support to succeed.

As for Ferrari, I disagree with you that Schumi was not 100% a team player with Ferrari. He never blamed the team, and went out of his way to support them in any way possible. Admittedly he demanded to be the no. 1 driver, but let's be honest, his team mates stood no chance against him - he was by far the better driver! The number of times when team orders were called in to ensure Schumi a win can be counted on one hand (and he was with them for 11 years!).

[F1fanatic]

Lewis has always been good at giving the team input and encouragement, even down on the factory floor level, with him paying regular visits to Woking and speaking with the staff there. I think he's much more hands-on and of-the-people than a good number of other drivers who just turn up to race the car and then sail off in a luxury yacht. But right now the team has done a bad job with the car and Lewis putting pressure on people to turn things around is no bad thing. There's definitely an element of complacency that creeps in with successful teams and they need to be constantly reminded that without 110% effort from every element of the team, including the driver of course, they won't win anything.

Have to disagree with you on this, if the rumour mill is to be believed the team aren't v happy with Hamilton (or at least werent. Perhaps they've forgiven him by now) over the 'Liargate' fiasco. They were not at all impressed that Ryan was sacked and Hamilton contributed to this by blaming him entirely.

As for this year, admittedly the car is a dog (compared to the last couple of years) - but embarrasingly Heikki has out-performed Lewis recently! Monaco (IIRC), Heikki qualifed extremely well. I have a suspicion that the car is low midfield, but being raced badly (purely based on what Heikki has acheived).

At the moment I believe Lewis has proved his critics right, he's great in a great car (like Button), but no better than the rest in a poor car.

However, its early days yet in his career and he may well learn a much needed lesson from this experience. If so, he may yet become a 'great' driver.

[Mosha]

As for Ferrari and Schumi. Remember a certain Eddie Irvine and his comment when he left Ferrari? "I wish my replacement luck, because you'll need it."

[rixalex]

I agree partially with both you and Rivalex on this one.

IMO (for what its worth! ), Alonso and Hamilton were treated equally at the beginning of 2007. Alonso took some time to get used to the car whereas Hamilton, who had been nurtured by Mclaren for a long time, was used to the car from the get-go. Unfortunately in Hungary (I think!), Hamilton ignored team orders during Qualifying and Alonso retaliated by holding him up, denying him the 'final run'. At this point things got nasty and, if rumours are to be believed, Hamilton got stroppy with Ron Dennis and the two sides (Alonso and Hamilton) fell out. At this point Alonso threw his toys out of the pram 'cos he expected (understandably) to be treated as the number 1 driver. (Who can blame him, he joined the team as the reigning world champion!).

IIRC it was around then that Alonso threatened Ron Dennis that he would 'reveal all' about the Ferrari documents unless he was given no. 1 driver status. At this point Ron Dennis decided to 'throw all' behind Hamilton - hence the 'we're racing Alonso - not Ferrari' comment!

Recently, I think Alonso and Hamilton are v similar in so far as they are both more than happy to blame the team when things go wrong. Alonso has been a bit quieter on this subject since the Mclaren debacle, but he was v vocal on this point at Renault previously! Hamilton has also finally realised that blaming the team is not the way to go when every driver needs the team's support to succeed.

As for Ferrari, I disagree with you that Schumi was not 100% a team player with Ferrari. He never blamed the team, and went out of his way to support them in any way possible. Admittedly he demanded to be the no. 1 driver, but let's be honest, his team mates stood no chance against him - he was by far the better driver! The number of times when team orders were called in to ensure Schumi a win can be counted on one hand (and he was with them for 11 years!).

A very good summation there F1Fanatic - can't disagree with any of it - including the stuff about Schumi.

[rixalex]

As for this year, admittedly the car is a dog (compared to the last couple of years) - but embarrasingly Heikki has out-performed Lewis recently! Monaco (IIRC), Heikki qualifed extremely well.

I might be wrong but i only recall one race this season in which Heikki has out-performed Lewis in qualifying without extenuating circumstances being involved (not that i'm suggesting Lewis wasn't to blame for those extenuating circumstances btw).

[TBWG]

Would you believe it ~~~~ back to square 1

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=38357

TBWG

[Mosha]

OK can someone explain? Ferrari and Redbull (I believe) are threatened with legal action if they didn't sign up for 2010. Now the FOTA 8 are being told they are not necessarily on the grid for 2010. <deleted> is going on. This weekends will be yet another race in the headlines for the wrong reasons.

[rixalex]

Yep, the sport is in a right royal mess. Needs whipping into shape - surely Max knows someone good at whipping?

[wackysleet]

Yep, the sport is in a right royal mess. Needs whipping into shape - surely Max knows someone good at whipping?

Perhaps Max has a spare nazi uniform that Bernie could borrow.

[Mosha]

Given some of Max Whiting strange decisions, perhaps a uniform for him too. Oh and this

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=38359

Edited July 10, 2009 by Mosha