2009 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

^^

Seems the story is gathering traction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8229787.stm

I must admit i dismissed the specualtion initally as being far-fetched. Despite regarding Alonso as being unsportsmanly and egotistical, i would never have thought him and his team capable of sinking low enough to order his team mate to crash to help him win the race.

Maybe i was wrong.

[wackysleet]

^^

Seems the story is gathering traction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8229787.stm

I must admit i dismissed the specualtion initally as being far-fetched. Despite regarding Alonso as being unsportsmanly and egotistical, i would never have thought him and his team capable of sinking low enough to order his team mate to crash to help him win the race.

Maybe i was wrong.

I've been reading everything I can about this race and I have to say that no one has even hinted that Alonso was involved {so far} although he started way down the grid at 15th spot I think, having missed part of the qualifiers it seems that if he was involved then his team mate would also have been in on it along with the whole team members before the race had even started as it's a pound to a penny this was not concocted during the race over an open radio circuit which virtually anyone could monitor, it would be the conspiracy of the year, even better than Shumacher breaking down on that notorious corner.

[Mosha]

Reading reports that Piquet's carreer is over for blowing the whistle. If that's so why is Alonso ( a whistle blower) still driving? Renault have McLaren blue prints? H''mmm common factor . Alonso.

[wackysleet]

Reading reports that Piquet's carreer is over for blowing the whistle. If that's so why is Alonso ( a whistle blower) still driving? Renault have McLaren blue prints? H''mmm common factor . Alonso.

The alleged blueprints Renault have of the Maclaren apparently are not current, as the Maclaren has hardly covered itself with glory this year and Renault have achieved sod all so far so it appears they have not benefitted at all and Piquets career was over long before he blew the whistle on Briatorres little schemes {yet to be proven} but with his past history it could well have a grain of truth.

Please lets not be like the rest of TV and condemn people without hearing all of the evidence, I don't believe with the exception of Shumacher that any drivers input on race strategy counts for a dam_n, Frank Williams is surely proof of that, with him it's ' my way or the highway' but then others will have different views I'm sure.

[MJo]

Mjo. I've always said that most F1 drivers could win a GP event given a good car, even Kimi but in six races as TBWG says we have had six different winners, personally I don't think his heart is in it, I don't doubt that he's very talented but so are all the others on the grid, yes even Badoer and my opinion is that Vettel will yet drive for Ferrari in the near future and if Shumacher does return in the 2nd or 3rd car {if that happens} then that will hasten Kimi's departure.

Would be nice to see Schumi back, however i do not believe it will happen. From present drivers only Alonso and Kimi have proven they can match his speed but difficult to say if he's gonna be fast again after so long break.

If you follow also other countries media than UK you are soon to find there is something going on with reports of UK media regarding Kimi and how he's not there and not doing his best and all that. Kimi actually gave them a small slap in the cheek regarding the rumors telling them that he can find also other fast cars from the pit lane if there Ferrari can not or will not provide... For me it's the same thing as with Barrichello. Everyone agreed last year that he's way too slow and should retire. And now he's winning races with Brawn. Same goes with Button.

Vettel i fully agree with you, he's one of the best prospects to be the "next schumi" that everyone is looking for.

But what a great season, different teams winning and championships seem to be opening up again as Jenson is not performing with his problems to get tires up to temp.

[rixalex]

From present drivers only Alonso and Kimi have proven they can match his speed but difficult to say if he's gonna be fast again after so long break.

Don't believe this. In my opinion there are many drivers who can match Schumi's speed. It's other attributes where his advantage lies, like consistency, strategy - knowing when to push, knowing when to hold back, being able to intimidate other drivers, getting the entire team focused on him - knowing how to "bend " the rules and get away with it. Those are all the things that he excelled in and made him the succcessful driver he was. Speed alone doesn't get you that far.

[wackysleet]

From present drivers only Alonso and Kimi have proven they can match his speed but difficult to say if he's gonna be fast again after so long break.

Don't believe this. In my opinion there are many drivers who can match Schumi's speed. It's other attributes where his advantage lies, like consistency, strategy - knowing when to push, knowing when to hold back, being able to intimidate other drivers, getting the entire team focused on him - knowing how to "bend " the rules and get away with it. Those are all the things that he excelled in and made him the succcessful driver he was. Speed alone doesn't get you that far.

rixalex, I would have to agree with you for the most part, I've always thought that any driver with the right car can win, but not consistantly unlike Shumacher, Senna was in my opinion cast from the same mould wasn't adverse to a bit of shall we say unsportsman like behaviour, and I believe that Hamilton has the same drive and could well dominate the sport in the same way or at the very least be a presence in the sport but my money will be on Vettel becoming the top man in the future.

[rixalex]

rixalex, I would have to agree with you for the most part, I've always thought that any driver with the right car can win, but not consistantly unlike Shumacher, Senna was in my opinion cast from the same mould wasn't adverse to a bit of shall we say unsportsman like behaviour, and I believe that Hamilton has the same drive and could well dominate the sport in the same way or at the very least be a presence in the sport but my money will be on Vettel becoming the top man in the future.

Can't disagree with any of that, just hope you are wrong about Vettel.

People were saying the same thing about Kubica a season or two back, and for whatever reasons, it hasn't happened for him. I guess if Vettel gets the Ferrari drive it could happen, but at the moment it's all "ifs" and "maybes".

Someone who i would like to see do well is Rosberg. If he goes to McClaren i can see some exciting duels with him and Lewis.

[TBWG]

Hi

Well it seems dreams can come true!

Fisi to pilot second Ferrari for rest of 2009 season. .... See http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46785

TBWG

[rixalex]

Hi

Well it seems dreams can come true!

Fisi to pilot second Ferrari for rest of 2009 season. .... See http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46785

TBWG

Dream come true? Believe that's what Badoer said when he got the drive. Didn't turn out to be much of a dream though....

[wackysleet]

At this stage in the season just how many drivers are available to fill the Ferrari second seat as surely most will be under contract and any really promising prospect surely will not be released to drive for a competitor, it will still be interesting though to see who will get next seasons drive.

Shumacher and Senna both jumped ship for a better team so maybe just maybe, Fisi is surely going to be in the same boat as {allegedly} Shumacher with the rules not allowing any practise in the Ferrari unless I'm wrong {probably} .

[wackysleet]

It seems that on Monday just hours after Spa Ian Phillips he of Force India gave a press conference stating that Fisi would be going to Ferrari within 24 hours, later strongly denied in a further statement by team owner Vijay Mallya saying Phillips does not speak for Force India and that Fisi would be staying and yet on Thursday comes news of the move, well they do say 3 days in F1 is a long time. I suspect we will hear more very soon. .

[TBWG]

Hi

Well it seems dreams can come true!

Fisi to pilot second Ferrari for rest of 2009 season. .... See http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46785

TBWG

Dream come true? Believe that's what Badoer said when he got the drive. Didn't turn out to be much of a dream though....

On his day Fisi can be blindingly quick.. if he is going to rise to the occasion anywhere surely it will be Monza in a Ferrari.

Badoers problem was that he had not competed in a race in yonks.

TBWG

[Mosha]

Interesting that Force India are saying no money was involved, considering how much they owe Ferrari. As TBWG says Badoer hasn't raced in yonks, Fisi has the competitive experience. I hope for his sake he does well. I think it was the w/end of Badoer's first race for Ferrari when one of the presenters said Ferrari tend to shy away from Italian drivers because they under perform when driving an Italian racing car.

[wackysleet]

Interesting that Force India are saying no money was involved, considering how much they owe Ferrari. As TBWG says Badoer hasn't raced in yonks, Fisi has the competitive experience. I hope for his sake he does well. I think it was the w/end of Badoer's first race for Ferrari when one of the presenters said Ferrari tend to shy away from Italian drivers because they under perform when driving an Italian racing car.

I believe there's a lot more been going on behind the scenes than either party is letting on, Spa's result for Force India was their best so far and to let their number 1 driver go at this stage in the season, seems very strange to me and Vijays statement that any Italian driver would love to race a Ferrari at Monsa and he would not stand in his way, sounds to me something out of Alice in Wonderland and surely would be a first for team owners/managers to put the driver first. .

[Mosha]

Renault facing charges over race fixing.

http://msnsport.skysports.com/story/0,1952...5538039,00.html

[TBWG]

Interesting that Force India are saying no money was involved, considering how much they owe Ferrari. As TBWG says Badoer hasn't raced in yonks, Fisi has the competitive experience. I hope for his sake he does well. I think it was the w/end of Badoer's first race for Ferrari when one of the presenters said Ferrari tend to shy away from Italian drivers because they under perform when driving an Italian racing car.

Hi

Didn't Force India use Ferrari engines prior to the Mercs and I read somewhere that they still owed them some cash ~~~ suspect slate is now clean! So all in all a profitable few days for the Force India balance sheet! Outstanding liabilities disappear, a cut from Bernie's squillions for next year and replacement driver already on payroll, nice one!

Didn't "Il Commendatore" have a policy of not employing Italian drivers? fearing a backlash from the press if one was killed whilst driving a Ferrari. Must admit only one I can think of in my era is Michele Albereto.

TBWG

[Mosha]

From searching around, Renault are being investigated for more than the Singapore incident. They could end up being kicked out of F1 from some of the things I've read. Googled Renault F1.

[TBWG]

From searching around, Renault are being investigated for more than the Singapore incident. They could end up being kicked out of F1 from some of the things I've read. Googled Renault F1.

Hi

I can't help thinking that this has all been bubbling away under the surface for some time and that the powers that be knew that the lid would come off at some stage, Piquet has been the catalyst to bring it to a head. Max/Bernie have known that in all likelihood Renault are on their way out..........Consequently these 3rd car rumours that won't go away are their way out when a slot appears and it is to late for additional new boy's to plug the gap.

Incidentally I am still skeptical that all of the 3 new teams will be on the 2010 grid.

TBWG

[wackysleet]

From searching around, Renault are being investigated for more than the Singapore incident. They could end up being kicked out of F1 from some of the things I've read. Googled Renault F1.

Hi

I can't help thinking that this has all been bubbling away under the surface for some time and that the powers that be knew that the lid would come off at some stage, Piquet has been the catalyst to bring it to a head. Max/Bernie have known that in all likelihood Renault are on their way out..........Consequently these 3rd car rumours that won't go away are their way out when a slot appears and it is to late for additional new boy's to plug the gap.

Incidentally I am still skeptical that all of the 3 new teams will be on the 2010 grid.

TBWG

I tend to agree with you but on the day and just after the race Massa was seen to go up to Renault and accuse them of trying to fix the race by having Piquet crash out, with or without orders. I would not be at all surprised if it was Piquet or his father that made the accusation in the first place after having been kicked in the nuts by he of the thong and If there is no loyalty from the management then you cannot in reality expect it from a team player, it appears in a lot of sports now that it's a case of " shaft or be shafted". .

[TBWG]

From searching around, Renault are being investigated for more than the Singapore incident. They could end up being kicked out of F1 from some of the things I've read. Googled Renault F1.

Should Renault be proven to have been "naughty boys" It could turn out to be a big dilemma for the FIA, really a complete banning would more than likely be appropriate ... but once again it would be the fans who suffer not to mention anyone who runs or was planning on running Renault engines.

Bearing in mind McLaren were fined £50,000,000 for employing someone who had documents he should not have had, surely there are not enough Euros in France to meet a proportionally representative fine for this offence!

Maybe Spanker will rue the day he overdid it with Macca! Some things have a way of coming back and biting you on the a*se when you get personal! (Pun not intended)

TBWG

[wackysleet]

From searching around, Renault are being investigated for more than the Singapore incident. They could end up being kicked out of F1 from some of the things I've read. Googled Renault F1.

Should Renault be proven to have been "naughty boys" It could turn out to be a big dilemma for the FIA, really a complete banning would more than likely be appropriate ... but once again it would be the fans who suffer not to mention anyone who runs or was planning on running Renault engines.

Bearing in mind McLaren were fined £50,000,000 for employing someone who had documents he should not have had, surely there are not enough Euros in France to meet a proportionally representative fine for this offence!

Maybe Spanker will rue the day he overdid it with Macca! Some things have a way of coming back and biting you on the a*se when you get personal! (Pun not intended)

TBWG

Spanker may like biting <deleted> for all we know. .

[TBWG]

Hi

So now we know ~~~ Hows the Flav going to wriggle out of this?

Nelson Piquet's FIA statement revealed

The legal statement made to the FIA by Nelson Piquet Jr has been leaked to the F1SA website. It is not clear how this has happened but we believe that the World Council dossier has been sent out and the leak must come from one of the members.

The statement made is as follows:

I, Nelson Angelo Piquet, born July 25, 1985 in Heidelberg, Germany...say as follows:

1. Except as otherwise stated, the facts and statements contained in this Statement are based on facts and matters within my knowledge. I believe such facts and statements contained in this Statement to be true and correct. Where any facts or statements are not within my own knowledge, they are true to the best of my knowledge and belief and, where appropriate, I indicate the source of that knowledge and belief.

2. I make this Statement voluntarily to the FIA and for the purposes of allowing the FIA to exercise its supervisory and regulatory functions with regard to the FIA Formula One World Championship.

3. I am aware that there is a duty upon all participants in the FIA Formula One World Championship and all Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Championship and I am aware that serious consequences could follow if I were to provide the FIA with any false or misleading statement.

4. I understand that my complete statement has been recorded on audio tape and that a full transcript of my audio recording will be made available to me and the FIA. The present document constitutes a summary of the main points made during my full oral statement.

5. I wish to bring the following facts to the FIA’s attention.

6. During the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore, held on 28 September 2008 and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, I was asked by Mr. Flavio Briatore, who is both my manager and the Team Principal of the ING Renault F1 Team, and by Mr. Pat Symonds, the Technical Director of the Renault F1 Team, to deliberately crash my car in order to positively influence the performance of the ING Renault F1 Team at the event in question. I agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap thirteen/fourteen of the race.

7. The proposal to deliberately cause an accident was made to me shortly before the race took place, when I was summoned by Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds in Mr. Briatore’s office. Mr. Symonds, in the presence of Mr. Briatore, asked me if I would be willing to sacrifice my race for the team by “causing a safety car”. Every F1 race driver knows that the safety car is deployed on a track when there is an accident which leads to the track being blocked either by debris or a stationary car, and where it is difficult to recover a damaged car, as was the case here.

8. At the time of this conversation I was in a very fragile and emotional state of mind. This state of mind was brought about by intense stress due to the fact that Mr. Briatore had refused to inform me of whether or not my driver’s contract would be renewed for the next racing year (2009), as is customarily the case in the middle of the year (around July or August). Instead, Mr. Briatore repeatedly requested me to sign an “option”, which meant that I was not allowed to negotiate with any other teams in the meantime. He would repeatedly put pressure on me to prolong the option I had signed, and would regularly summon me into his office to discuss these renewals, even on racing days – a moment which should be a moment of concentration and relaxation before the race. This stress was accentuated by the fact that during the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore I had qualified sixteenth on the grid, so I was very insecure about my future at the Renault team. When I was asked to crash my car and cause a safety car incident in order to help the team, I accepted because I hoped that it could improve my position within the team at this critical time in the race season. At no point was I told by anyone that by agreeing to cause an incident, I would be guaranteed a renewal of my contract or any other advantage. However, in the context, I thought that it would be helpful in achieving this goal. I therefore agreed to cause the incident.

9. After the meeting with Mr. Symonds and Mr. Briatore, Mr. Symonds took me aside to a quiet corner and, using a map, pointed me to the exact corner of the track where I should crash. This corner was selected because the specific location of the track did not have any cranes that would allow a damaged car to be swiftly lifted off the track, nor did it have any side entrances to the track, which would allow a Safety Marshall to quickly move the damaged car away from the track. Therefore, it was felt that a crash in this specific position would be nearly certain to cause an obstruction on the track which would thus necessitate the deployment of a safety car in order to allow the track to be cleared and to ensure the safe continuation of the race.

10. Mr. Symonds also told me which exact lap to cause the incident upon, so that a strategy could deployed for my team-mate Mr. Fernando Alonso to refuel at the pit shortly before the deployment of the safety car, which he indeed did during lap twelve. The key to this strategy resided in the fact that the near-knowledge that the safety car would be deployed in lap thirteen/fourteen allowed the Team to start Mr. Alonso’s car with an aggressive fuel strategy using a light car containing enough fuel to arrive at lap twelve, but not much more. This would allow Mr. Alonso to overtake as many (heavier) cars as possible, knowing that those cars would have difficulty catching up with him later in the race due to the later deployment of the safety car. This strategy was successful and Mr. Alonso won the 2008 Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore.

11. During these discussions, no mention was made of any concerns with respect to the security implications of this strategy, either for myself, the public or other drivers. The only comment made in this context was one by Mr. Pat Symonds who warned me to “be careful”, which I took to mean that I should not injure myself.

12. I intentionally caused the crash by letting go of control of the car just before the relevant corner. In order to make sure I would cause the incident during the correct lap, I asked my team several times via the radio to confirm the lap number, which I would not normally do. I was not injured during the accident, nor was anyone else.

13. After the discussions with Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds discussed above, the ‘accident strategy’ was never discussed again with either of them. Mr. Briatore discreetly said “thank you” after the end of the race, without mentioning anything further. I do not know if anyone else was aware of this strategy at the start of the race.

14. After the race I informed Mr. Felipe Vargas, a family friend and advisor, of the fact that the incident had been deliberate. Mr. Vargas further infirmed my father, Mr. Nelson Piquet, some time later.

15. After the race several journalists asked questions about the accident and asked me whether I had caused it on purpose, because they felt it was ‘suspicious’.

16. In my own team, the engineer of my car questioned the nature of the incident because he found it unusual, and I replied that I had lost control of the car. I believe that a clever engineer would notice from the car’s telemetry that I caused the incident on purpose as I continued accelerating , whereas a “normal” reaction would be to brake as soon as possible.

Statement of Truth

I believe and swear that the facts set out in this statement are true.

This statement was made at the FIA Headquarters in Paris on 30 July 2009 in presence of Mr. Alan Donnelly (FIA Chairman of the Stewards), Mr. Martin Smith and Mr. Jacob Marsh (both of investigations firm Quest, retained by the FIA to assist with its investigation). Notes were taken by Ms. Domenique Costesec (Sidley Austin LLP).

Signed:

Nelson Piquet Jr.

TBWG

[rixalex]

^^ Reading that, the feeling i get is that if this can in any way be corroborated, that is it for the Renault team. Flav will be history. Good riddance.

Piquet's future looks uncertain too. Shame he didn't stand up to Flav, but as a young driver struggling to make it, i can understand the corner he must have felt he was placed in. Flav knew he was low in confidence and vunerable and used this to his/Alonso's advantage.

And as to Alonso himself, i don't think he had anything to do with hatching this plan. As to whether he knew anything about it or not though, i'm not so sure. His statement today reads:

"I cannot imagine these things, these situations. It's something that never entered my mind."

Never entered his mind? Really Alonso?

[wackysleet]

^^ Reading that, the feeling i get is that if this can in any way be corroborated, that is it for the Renault team. Flav will be history. Good riddance.

Piquet's future looks uncertain too. Shame he didn't stand up to Flav, but as a young driver struggling to make it, i can understand the corner he must have felt he was placed in. Flav knew he was low in confidence and vunerable and used this to his/Alonso's advantage.

And as to Alonso himself, i don't think he had anything to do with hatching this plan. As to whether he knew anything about it or not though, i'm not so sure. His statement today reads:

"I cannot imagine these things, these situations. It's something that never entered my mind."

Never entered his mind? Really Alonso?

I really think Piquets cooked his chances for the future with any team now, but we will have to wait and see. We all know this is not Briatorres first brush with controversy, let's hope it's his last although it would be a pity to lose Renault from the start line.

rixalex, don't let us jump the gun as far as Alonso is concerned, at the moment there appears to be no evidence to suggest he was party to any of this skulduggery, even though I support him and always have if he is guilty along with the pair from management and of course Piquet then all should receive a lifetime ban with no exceptions.

What I find quite interesting is Nelsons comments concerning his engineer and the telemetry and suggesting that he would have known exactly what went on during the crash even though he was'nt part of the plot.

[rixalex]

rixalex, don't let us jump the gun as far as Alonso is concerned, at the moment there appears to be no evidence to suggest he was party to any of this skulduggery,

Mate, i wasn't suggesting that he was part of it. I don't think he was.

Did he know something about it? Now that's a different question. I find it hard to believe he didn't, if not before the race, then certainly after. At least have some suspicions. Did all the winking and nudging that Flav was doing as he congratulated him on the win not register at all? Is the man who attempted blackmail so innocent-minded?

[wackysleet]

rixalex, don't let us jump the gun as far as Alonso is concerned, at the moment there appears to be no evidence to suggest he was party to any of this skulduggery,

Mate, i wasn't suggesting that he was part of it. I don't think he was.

Did he know something about it? Now that's a different question. I find it hard to believe he didn't, if not before the race, then certainly after. At least have some suspicions. Did all the winking and nudging that Flav was doing as he congratulated him on the win not register at all? Is the man who attempted blackmail so innocent-minded?

The short answer is that I don't know and I'm not going to speculate one way or the other, my stance is that anyone having knowledge of it should be kicked out and that includes mechanics but lets face it we live in the real world.

I think that there are enough questionable actions from a lot of drivers and teams that could bear scrutiny, I certainly do not think the sport is squeeky clean. .

[rixalex]

The short answer is that I don't know and I'm not going to speculate one way or the other

Oh, go on! It'll be fun!

I certainly do not think the sport is squeeky clean. .

Agreed. The last few years have provided irrevocable proof of that. This is what happens when you have a president who messes about with Nazi get-up, sexual role-play in his spare time.

[wackysleet]

The short answer is that I don't know and I'm not going to speculate one way or the other

Oh, go on! It'll be fun!

I certainly do not think the sport is squeeky clean. .

Agreed. The last few years have provided irrevocable proof of that. This is what happens when you have a president who messes about with Nazi get-up, sexual role-play in his spare time.

I guess my gut feeling is that he knew after the event along with the race engineer, as Massa made a point of going upto Renault and saying that it was a fix.

I would certainly not condone it but what a difficult position one would be in, your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The outcome of any investigation is likely to be " insufficient evidence to conclusively proove any wrong doing" lets face it Renault is a big player so who is the most expendible, Renault or Nelson Piquet, no prize for guessing correctly. .

[Maejo Man]

Then today's little twist.....

Renault launch criminal proceedings against Piquets

Friday 11th September 2009

Renault have announced they have begun criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet junior and Nelson Piquet senior over "the making of false allegations and a related attempt to blackmail the team into allowing Piquet Jr to drive for the remainder of the 2009 season."

The allegations referred to by Renault relate to last year's Singapore Grand Prix and Piquet Jr's lap 14 crash, which he claims was upon the instruction of Renault.

However, in a statement, the team have responded:

"The ING Renault F1 Team had not commented publicly during the FIA's initial investigation into this matter," the team said in a statement.

"However, today the ING Renault F1 Team and its Managing Director Flavio Briatore personally, wish to state that they have commenced criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior in France concerning the making of false allegations and a related attempt to blackmail the team into allowing Mr Piquet Jnr to drive for the remainder of the 2009 season. The matter will also be referred to the Police in the UK."

Earlier this week, a transcript of Piquet Jr's statement to investigators was leaked to the media in which the Brazilian states that he was asked by team boss Flavio Briatore and technical director Pat Symonds to "deliberately crash" his car to help his team-mate Fernando Alonso to the victory.

Piquet Jr even went as far as to say that "Mr. Briatore, Mr. Symonds took me aside to a quiet corner and, using a map, pointed me to the exact corner of the track where I should crash."

"This corner was selected because the specific location of the track did not have any cranes that would allow a damaged car to be swiftly lifted off the track, nor did it have any side entrances to the track, which would allow a Safety Marshall to quickly move the damaged car away from the track."

Planet-f1

Edited September 11, 2009 by Maejo Man