2009 Formula One Season

[MJo]

Trouble is with widening the track, the racing line will always dictate the fastest way around a lap. As an aside in the current system, does anyone know what the lowest ponts attained by a F1 champ?

1950, drivers name Nino Farina total points 30, but the number of races over the years has increased a lot, 1982 Keke Rosberg won with 44 points.

It would be nice to watch those -80's races again, sure there is footage around the internet nowdays. Maybe even as far as -50's. Anyone come across these races in the net? Not that familiar with downloading shows and recordings myself...

[F1fanatic]

When his car was 1st or 2nd best (2000-2003), he won the championship, but that's not really the point. He did unbelievably well in a poor car too (the Ferrari when he joined the team).

F1, Shumacher moved to Ferrari in 1996 and won three races and didn't become W.C. again until 2000 where he won five consecutive W.C.s with the best car and he may be the best driver the sport has ever seen but it's difficult to make your comparisons with Jenson and Lewis, apart from the Jordan, Shumacher has never had a car as bad as last years Honda or this years Mclaren.

The Ferrari from 2000 - 2004 was not the undeniably best car on the grid until 2004, when it was absolutely unbeatable - a bit like the Brawn so far this season. In 2005 the Ferrari was rubbish, not as bad as last year's Honda, but not much better than this year's Mclaren. Despite that Schumi never gave up and out-drove the car.

Can't be bothered to look it up, but didn't he finish 3rd in the WDC or something close?

Jenson on the other hand, was beaten (in a poor car) by Rubens last year, and Hamilton has performed in a mediocre fashion in the poor Mclaren this year. As I said in a previous post, Kovi quailifed 7th in Monaco! If Kovi (an underperforming racer by anyones standards) could get the car to that position, then it deserved better!

In Turkey, Kovi out-qualified Hamilton again. Hamilton was one position ahead of him at the race end (no idea how - I missed that), but it was 14th and 15th(?) or something similar, and reflected no credit on either driver.

[F1fanatic]

Well F1 we will have to beg to differ but as for him joining Benetton from Jordan, Jordan went to court over the contract and as for Benettons car not being too good I think history shows your wrong on that, but although you admit Shumacher pulled more than his fair share of stunts you seem to dismiss that and hold him up as a beacon of light, sorry but a cheat is a cheat however many times he wins the WDC.

O.K., Schumi jumped ship to Benetton and a better car than the Jordan. (Jordan weren't happy to lose someone who looked to be -even at that point - unbelievably good, and sued)

I'm not saying the Benetton wasn't a good car, it just wasn't the best on the grid.

Yes, I admit Schumi pulled a few stunts, but I don't think it detracts from the way in other races he performed in a way that left everyone stunned.

Its unfortunate (IMO) that the few races (and you can count them on less than one hand) that were questionable provide some people with the ammunition to claim that he didn't deserve his legacy.

Personally, I think the current grid misses him, someone who will (nearly) always give more than the car deserves. The current driver line-up aren't in the same bracket - apart, perhaps, from Alonso, but given time, Hamilton, Vettel and a couple of others may get there.

[MJo]

The Ferrari from 2000 - 2004 was not the undeniably best car on the grid until 2004, when it was absolutely unbeatable - a bit like the Brawn so far this season. In 2005 the Ferrari was rubbish, not as bad as last year's Honda, but not much better than this year's Mclaren. Despite that Schumi never gave up and out-drove the car.

Can't be bothered to look it up, but didn't he finish 3rd in the WDC or something close?

Jenson on the other hand, was beaten (in a poor car) by Rubens last year, and Hamilton has performed in a mediocre fashion in the poor Mclaren this year. As I said in a previous post, Kovi quailifed 7th in Monaco! If Kovi (an underperforming racer by anyones standards) could get the car to that position, then it deserved better!

In Turkey, Kovi out-qualified Hamilton again. Hamilton was one position ahead of him at the race end (no idea how - I missed that), but it was 14th and 15th(?) or something similar, and reflected no credit on either driver.

Spot on, at the moment (based on last two races) it looks that Hamilton has lost the plot and indeed is not able to take the car to the limits or get those extra tenths out as great drivers do. And it can still go both ways but in any case this season will show if he's able to get it together and show he is one of the greats.

I regard their doctors statements quite high, he has been behind most of finnish winter sport stars, consults guys like Haile Gebreselassie and the rest Ethiopian world champions and worked also with Mika Hakkinen during his years in McLaren. So take heed, it can be a fantastic success story or rather sad failure in terms of developing to be "one of the greats" internationally not just with UK fan base.

You may dismiss my comments based on my previous posts being supportive of Kovi but we will see in few months time.

[wackysleet]

O.K., Schumi jumped ship to Benetton and a better car than the Jordan. (Jordan weren't happy to lose someone who looked to be -even at that point - unbelievably good, and sued)

I'm not saying the Benetton wasn't a good car, it just wasn't the best on the grid.

Yes, I admit Schumi pulled a few stunts, but I don't think it detracts from the way in other races he performed in a way that left everyone stunned.

Its unfortunate (IMO) that the few races (and you can count them on less than one hand) that were questionable provide some people with the ammunition to claim that he didn't deserve his legacy.

Personally, I think the current grid misses him, someone who will (nearly) always give more than the car deserves. The current driver line-up aren't in the same bracket - apart, perhaps, from Alonso, but given time, Hamilton, Vettel and a couple of others may get there.

[/quot

F1, I have never said that he was not the best driver of all time or that he didn't deserve most of his titles, I have told you frequently why I dislike him so and it's not about to change real soon.

By the way the hun was 3rd in 1995, Alonso 1st 133 points Raikkonen 2nd with 112 points and Shumacher 3rd with 62 points.

1995 was the year of the debacle at the USA grand prix when the field consisted of just 6 drivers the other 14 withdrew before the start, Shumacher won and got his 10 points giving him the 3rd position in the WDC, Montoya who finished with sixty points and 4th place refused to start along with Fisichella who finished in 5th place with 58 points, the only reason I point this last bit out is that if the race had consisted of all the drivers {20} then the chances of Shumacher finishing in 3rd place would have been very slim, not impossible just slim. .

[F1fanatic]

O.K., Schumi jumped ship to Benetton and a better car than the Jordan. (Jordan weren't happy to lose someone who looked to be -even at that point - unbelievably good, and sued)

I'm not saying the Benetton wasn't a good car, it just wasn't the best on the grid.

Yes, I admit Schumi pulled a few stunts, but I don't think it detracts from the way in other races he performed in a way that left everyone stunned.

Its unfortunate (IMO) that the few races (and you can count them on less than one hand) that were questionable provide some people with the ammunition to claim that he didn't deserve his legacy.

Personally, I think the current grid misses him, someone who will (nearly) always give more than the car deserves. The current driver line-up aren't in the same bracket - apart, perhaps, from Alonso, but given time, Hamilton, Vettel and a couple of others may get there.

[/quot

F1, I have never said that he was not the best driver of all time or that he didn't deserve most of his titles, I have told you frequently why I dislike him so and it's not about to change real soon.

By the way the hun was 3rd in 1995, Alonso 1st 133 points Raikkonen 2nd with 112 points and Shumacher 3rd with 62 points.

1995 was the year of the debacle at the USA grand prix when the field consisted of just 6 drivers the other 14 withdrew before the start, Shumacher won and got his 10 points giving him the 3rd position in the WDC, Montoya who finished with sixty points and 4th place refused to start along with Fisichella who finished in 5th place with 58 points, the only reason I point this last bit out is that if the race had consisted of all the drivers {20} then the chances of Shumacher finishing in 3rd place would have been very slim, not impossible just slim. .

Good point, I'd never bothered to work it out but from what you're saying its obvious the US Grand Prix (I remember it well!) seriously affected the final order in the WDC.

Having said that, the only reason the other teams pulled out was 'cos they couldn't compete on the track as it stood with the tyres they had (the tyres were downright dangerous on that track after a few laps). They were demanding the track be changed and the FIA refused.

Bearing this in mind I think that even though the Ferrari was well down the normal order, with their Bridgestone tyres (that could cope with the track), MS probably would have finished in 3rd at the v least.

p.s. perhaps we should start a separate topic on this!

Edited June 9, 2009 by F1fanatic

[ignis]

Forgive me, but you're totally off your head!!

Schumi was the best driver no question about that, I was trying to point out that Rubens was asked a few times to let Schumi pass when he was at the front... Rubens went to Honda on the understanding there would be NO team orders, and again under Brawn he said he would retire if there were team orders, so I was trying to say that JB is a ? better driver than Rubens.?

Likewise the present day best driver is Alonso being followed very closely by Vettal

[rixalex]

Likewise the present day best driver is Alonso being followed very closely by Vettal

Vettel has been in the sport 5 minutes - you can't possibly compare him with Alonso or say that he is of the same talent - at least, not yet. All we are seeing now is potential, and if you've watched the sport long enough you'd know that potential isn't always fulfilled.

[rixalex]

You may dismiss my comments based on my previous posts being supportive of Kovi but we will see in few months time.

I don't think your opinion will be affected whatever happens in a few months time. If Lewis ends the season with more points than Kovi (as he does now), you will just reel off excuses about how Lewis got preferential treatment from the team. If Kovi finishes above Lewis (i'll take my hat off and eat it if that comes true!), you'll say that's proof of who is the best driver. Tails Kovi wins, heads Lewis loses type of thing.

I mean, if the outcome of last season didn't tell you a thing or two about these drivers, nothing will - you must be blind - take those Finnish underpants off your head!

[MJo]

You may dismiss my comments based on my previous posts being supportive of Kovi but we will see in few months time.

I don't think your opinion will be affected whatever happens in a few months time. If Lewis ends the season with more points than Kovi (as he does now), you will just reel off excuses about how Lewis got preferential treatment from the team. If Kovi finishes above Lewis (i'll take my hat off and eat it if that comes true!), you'll say that's proof of who is the best driver. Tails Kovi wins, heads Lewis loses type of thing.

I mean, if the outcome of last season didn't tell you a thing or two about these drivers, nothing will - you must be blind - take those Finnish underpants off your head!

You are still not getting it so let me try once more...

I'm talking about Hamilton here, not Kovi. And what i wrote has nothing to do with Kovi. If you read my last post you find that i was not comparing or claiming in any way Kovi will beat Hamilton in points or otherwise this season.

What i'm saying is that this season will prove if Hamilton is just another driver or does he have the rare skills and qualities needed to become one of the greats. As his team doctor said in his interview, "this year is the most important season for Hamilton. This season will show if he is mentally strong enough to be one of the greats". He also admitted that he has no idea which way it is gonna go but he and the team are trying to support as much as they can.

Early on in the season he was doing ok considering how bad the car is but has IMO lost the plot in last two races. So is he in the breaking point already and simply can handle the pressure that comes being champ and not winning or can he learn his lessons and become stronger driver due these difficulties this year. That is the question here and this we will see during this season.

If you still fail to see it or are unable to give anything more than your mantra what i said or may have said in the past, then do not bother to reply. You have made it very clear where you stand with both McLaren drivers and we do not agree on what happened last season and this season regarding the team support for it's drivers.

[rixalex]

If you still fail to see it or are unable to give anything more than your mantra what i said or may have said in the past, then do not bother to reply.

Whether i reply or not is entirely my prerogative. If you don't like my replies, don't read them.

I don't agree with your replies but respect your right to an opinion.

Your opinion seems bent on ignoring the facts that we have in front of us like number of races won, number of points scored, number of championships, number of poles - all of these statistics prove a driver's worth. One point away from winning the Championship on debut season also speaks volumes.

Instead you concentrate on quoting irrelevant sources, like team doctors - he has suggested that Lewis might fail this season and you jump on that and hold it up as some sort of proof that perhaps he's not such a good driver. For one thing, in the general scheme of things, a team doctor's opinion doesn't mean very much, and for the other, it's simply speculation about what might happen in the future.

Saying that Lewis might fail and crumble is no different from peole saying that Vettel is almost as good as Alonso. It's pure speculation - just hypothesizing. Means nothing and more often is influenced by what they want to see happen.

[MJo]

If you still fail to see it or are unable to give anything more than your mantra what i said or may have said in the past, then do not bother to reply.

Whether i reply or not is entirely my prerogative. If you don't like my replies, don't read them.

I don't agree with your replies but respect your right to an opinion.

Your opinion seems bent on ignoring the facts that we have in front of us like number of races won, number of points scored, number of championships, number of poles - all of these statistics prove a driver's worth. One point away from winning the Championship on debut season also speaks volumes.

Instead you concentrate on quoting irrelevant sources, like team doctors - he has suggested that Lewis might fail this season and you jump on that and hold it up as some sort of proof that perhaps he's not such a good driver. For one thing, in the general scheme of things, a team doctor's opinion doesn't mean very much, and for the other, it's simply speculation about what might happen in the future.

Saying that Lewis might fail and crumble is no different from peole saying that Vettel is almost as good as Alonso. It's pure speculation - just hypothesizing. Means nothing and more often is influenced by what they want to see happen.

Yes i was speculating but saying Hamilton will not crumble or is already one of the greats (in the same league with Schumi and Senna) is also pure speculation and denying the very facts you refer above. As you said Vettel has been in the sport 5 minutes, started mid 2007 in indy. Hamilton started 2007 melbourne so he's been there for 5 minutes 30 seconds. The "greats" we are talking about were there for several years each and achieved multiple championships and were integral part of at least one team that got to the top from same situation as McLaren and Ferrari are now. So we need to wait and see how it goes.

What comes to their team doc you obviously have limited knowledge of his role in McLaren and how the team works in this regard. He's one of the insiders in the team and inside these guys heads. Not sitting in his office back in UK writing painkillers. And if he's not sure which way it will go with Lewis then no one really can be with the exception of his dad and one out of 24 pussycat dolls I was actually surprised he talk so freely in the interview, usually all McLaren guys keep these comments out from media. Maybe he talked too much as it was Finnish media with little risk of being quoted in UK media.

As a Lewis fan you can always claim that he has already proven himself and is par with Scumi and others but unfortunately i do not agree on this. As i said i'm die hard Kimi fan, sure i do suport Kovi as he is a fellow finn, and i would rank Lewis at the same level as Kimi at the moment. Both won one championship and now we have to wait and see how they manage with cars that are not in first row in every qualification. Honestly i could not care less if Hamilton makes it or remains as one season wonder, what i'm more keen to see is Kimi back in front row after last season hang over and this season slow car.

[wackysleet]

Saying that Lewis might fail and crumble is no different from peole saying that Vettel is almost as good as Alonso. It's pure speculation - just hypothesizing. Means nothing and more often is influenced by what they want to see happen.

I have never liked Hamilton as a person, but have a lot of respect for him and everyone in the fortunate position to have the necessary skill to be able to drive an F1 car, I wonder if Maclarens problems this year have anything to do with Ron Dennis leaving, he was Lewis mentor for 10 yrs or so.

[MJo]

I have never liked Hamilton as a person, but have a lot of respect for him and everyone in the fortunate position to have the necessary skill to be able to drive an F1 car, I wonder if Maclarens problems this year have anything to do with Ron Dennis leaving, he was Lewis mentor for 10 yrs or so.

Yes, we are talking and arguing here who is faster and who is slower when actually all the guys are within a couple of seconds in several kilometer long track. They all are exceptionally skilled and talented guys to be able to drive the cars in first place. And as this season proves, driver previously regarded as "milepost" or slow and underperforming etc etc is now leading the championships and seems that nothing can stop him winning this year.

IMHO all the drivers can win the championship and beat the others when everything falls in right place for them. I mean fast enough car to the liking of the driver style, correct support from team and correct level of confidence from the driver + bit of luck and so on.

I'm sure RD's departure had some effect as he was Lewis main supporter and mentor, add to that the lying scandal when it was reported that not all in the team liked the way long term employee was made to take the heat and resign (to free Lewis from personal penalties). It was also reported that same scandal effected his dad's relationship with the team management. Combine that with the pressure he himself and the press in UK are piling up on him as he is not competing for the championship after two good years. Not to mention the other drivers taking a piss on his comments on backmarkers in the past.

It aint easy to keep focus and cool head in the middle of all this. He's been giving some interviews lately openly calling the car too slow and handling bad and questioned decisions done with the development of the car. This usually does not bode well with the team management.

[MJo]

Well now Hamilton himself has admitted how tough it is for him this season.

Read translation from his interview with Bild magazine HERE

"Your expectations are so high and yet no matter what you do you cannot fulfil them. The disappointment was enormous; I could have exploded, like a volcano, but I had to leave it inside and it ate away at me,"

Hamilton said he let his expectations drop at the Spanish Grand Prix and "since then I have relaxed a bit."

Confirms what we have been speculating here on the forum. Extremely stressfull and effecting him a lot.

He also said that if he would be to design his own car he would take Brawn with the Mercedes engine already in it. Add KERS from McLaren and pait it silver...

[rixalex]

What comes to their team doc you obviously have limited knowledge of his role in McLaren and how the team works in this regard. He's one of the insiders in the team and inside these guys heads. Not sitting in his office back in UK writing painkillers. And if he's not sure which way it will go with Lewis then no one really can be with the exception of his dad and one out of 24 pussycat dolls I was actually surprised he talk so freely in the interview, usually all McLaren guys keep these comments out from media. Maybe he talked too much as it was Finnish media with little risk of being quoted in UK media.

Thanks for the patronising explanation. I was fully aware of the important role played by the team doctor, but i disagree that his opinion on matters of racing counts for very much at all. He's a medical man and just the fact that he has a close relationship with the drivers doesn't all of a sudden make him an expert on anything other than medicine.

Perhaps the fact that you hold his opinion in such high regard has something to do with the fact that you agree with what he said.

Anyway, all this talk of Hamilton's demise and lack of ability to cope with driving a crap car, got me wondering how you, as an Ice Man fan, feel that he has faired in driving a car off the pace. It seems to be a widely held belief, rightly or wrongly, that when his car isn't fast enough to fight for a race win, he just gives up trying and lacks motivation. What do you think?

[MJo]

Anyway, all this talk of Hamilton's demise and lack of ability to cope with driving a crap car, got me wondering how you, as an Ice Man fan, feel that he has faired in driving a car off the pace. It seems to be a widely held belief, rightly or wrongly, that when his car isn't fast enough to fight for a race win, he just gives up trying and lacks motivation. What do you think?

You are right here, IMO Kimi lost his concentration and had some motivation issues last season after the championship win. Too much partying and propably overconfidence played a part. One problem for Kimi was that he basicly stopped testing after winning the champs which was just plain stupid. Instead of doing pr of hanging out with the mates he could and should have been testing and keeping fit.

While preparing to this season he was a different man though, gave up booze (temporarily i believe ) to get back in shape and was extremely motivated. This was even noticed and commented by Ferrari team bosses during pre-season testing. Had some not so good races and made few mistakes but that happens when you take more risks to compensate the poor grid position due slowish car. He propably lost some of his motivation in the beginning of the season as they were not quick enough but last couple of races he has done better and the motivation seems to be back as the car improves. He has been constantly saying it's not over yet and he wants to give it a go if not against Brawn but certainly against Red Bull and others. I just read that Ferrari tries to get results in next 3 races and if situation has not improved they start to develop only next years car. I believe McLaren gave up on this years car already after last race. So when this happens they will take a step back again compared to others.

Anyways i believe all the drivers drive as fast as possible but naturally if you are totally out of the championship race and competing for the last points you tend to take more risks and do more mistakes especially if you are the last year champion with expectations to perform. That's why i compared Kimi and Lewis earlier. I believe Lewis is now facing the same pressures Kimi had last season.

Overall it's interesting, to see if Ferrari and McLaren are able to close the gap to others and how the drivers deal with it. I do feel it's good to see independent teams doing well after several years of car manufacturers domination. But then again Brawn seems to be so fast that there is no real fight for the championship this year and that's just plain boring if Button takes the championship after half of the season is still left.

[bangkokrick]

Button is a fantastic driver and in the past he just has not had a good enough car to show his talents. Now that he has and he is winning just about every race don't decry him of his success. It's interesting to note that if they had changed the scoring system to only include Gold, Silver and Bronze, Button would be the champion already. Wasn't that a stupid idea?

Cheers, Rick

[MJo]

Button is a fantastic driver and in the past he just has not had a good enough car to show his talents. Now that he has and he is winning just about every race don't decry him of his success. It's interesting to note that if they had changed the scoring system to only include Gold, Silver and Bronze, Button would be the champion already. Wasn't that a stupid idea?

Cheers, Rick

I do agree with you, he is fast driver given a good car and has shown this year that he's not doing many mistakes either.

It just would be so much more interesting if there would be proper fight for the championship until the last race. I was counting on Rubens to take care of it but it seems he already dropped out with couple of bad races. Who knows, maybe Red Bull will find some extra speed and we still can have exiting end for the season with Vettel pursuing JB until the end.

[bangkokrick]

Button is a fantastic driver and in the past he just has not had a good enough car to show his talents. Now that he has and he is winning just about every race don't decry him of his success. It's interesting to note that if they had changed the scoring system to only include Gold, Silver and Bronze, Button would be the champion already. Wasn't that a stupid idea?

Cheers, Rick

I do agree with you, he is fast driver given a good car and has shown this year that he's not doing many mistakes either.

It just would be so much more interesting if there would be proper fight for the championship until the last race. I was counting on Rubens to take care of it but it seems he already dropped out with couple of bad races. Who knows, maybe Red Bull will find some extra speed and we still can have exiting end for the season with Vettel pursuing JB until the end.

For me it's a breath of fresh air to watch the underdog teams fighting out and the big two struggling to compete. Ferrari have controlled and dominated the sport for far too long and they always want to play by their rules. They are far from happy with the current situation because it proves that on a more equal footing that they are not the best.

I really enjoyed the Istanbul GP and even though Button won it, Vettel could have got closer had it not been for a lousy 3 stop strategy. You could see in the post race interviews that he was really pissed off and quite rightly so. The team did seem to be favouring Webber what do you think?

Cheers, Rick

[bangkokrick]

Interesting quote from Bernie on Yahoo sport Ecclestone: Button dominance 'very bad'

He was not saying that when Ferrari and Schumacher dominated.

Cheers, Rick

[rixalex]

It's interesting to note that if they had changed the scoring system to only include Gold, Silver and Bronze, Button would be the champion already. Wasn't that a stupid idea?

I agree about it being a stupid idea but how do you work out that Button would already be World Champion? He has won six races so he would have six golds. There are ten races left, so there would be ten gold medals still available.

In fact, even with the scoring the way it is now - there only being 2 point difference between 1st and 2nd - i think realistically the season is all but over anyway.

To open things up more and make it more interesting, i'd like to see an extra point given for the pole-sitter and another point given for fastest lap of the race.

And going back to the earlier discussion about widening the tracks to provide more over-taking, i'd like to see street circuits abandoned - with the exception of Monaco for sentimental reasons. Last year the races at Valencia and Singapore were awful as it was impossible for people to pass.

[wackysleet]

I do agree with you, he is fast driver given a good car and has shown this year that he's not doing many mistakes either.

It just would be so much more interesting if there would be proper fight for the championship until the last race. I was counting on Rubens to take care of it but it seems he already dropped out with couple of bad races. Who knows, maybe Red Bull will find some extra speed and we still can have exiting end for the season with Vettel pursuing JB until the end.

For me it's a breath of fresh air to watch the underdog teams fighting out and the big two struggling to compete. Ferrari have controlled and dominated the sport for far too long and they always want to play by their rules. They are far from happy with the current situation because it proves that on a more equal footing that they are not the best.

I really enjoyed the Istanbul GP and even though Button won it, Vettel could have got closer had it not been for a lousy 3 stop strategy. You could see in the post race interviews that he was really pissed off and quite rightly so. The team did seem to be favouring Webber what do you think?

Cheers, Rick

Mark Webber has been around awhile now, not always having a competative ride, well he has now, last year Sebastien drove for Red Bulls sister team and did very well with a win in the wet, I don't think anyone believed the Red Bull team would do so well this year

{what happened to Torro Rosso this year?} but with Vettel looking good and performing well I don't think it will be long before the top teams approach him to drive......whoever they are, and having such a good start to his career will see him secure very good drives in the future, he has a lot of years ahead of him unlike some other drivers.

[MJo]

For me it's a breath of fresh air to watch the underdog teams fighting out and the big two struggling to compete. Ferrari have controlled and dominated the sport for far too long and they always want to play by their rules. They are far from happy with the current situation because it proves that on a more equal footing that they are not the best.

I really enjoyed the Istanbul GP and even though Button won it, Vettel could have got closer had it not been for a lousy 3 stop strategy. You could see in the post race interviews that he was really pissed off and quite rightly so. The team did seem to be favouring Webber what do you think?

Cheers, Rick

Again i have to agree, better for the racing the more there is teams capable of winning and now when we have two top teams from independents it is great for the sport overall. Also what i kind of miss is the lack of engines blowing. The cars are just too reliable nowdays, good old times they took the cars to absolute limits and occasionally blew up engines in the process. No more the thrilling drama having the leading car to blow up in the last lap

[rixalex]

Also what i kind of miss is the lack of engines blowing. The cars are just too reliable nowdays, good old times they took the cars to absolute limits and occasionally blew up engines in the process. No more the thrilling drama having the leading car to blow up in the last lap

Nah. Sorry to always disagree with you, but for me one of the good advances in the sport has been better reliability.

Even when it was a driver i didn't like, i never liked seeing someone leading a race have the engine blow on the last lap - seemed so cruel! The other aspect is that before with the poor reliability, some races near the end were down to just a handful of cars, which made things very boring. Much better to have as many cars still on the track for the last lap.

[wackysleet]

As far as I'm concerned F1 is entertainment financed in one way or another by the viewing public, hence the tv and sponsorship logos etc; and as such drivers should be prepared to give interviews and at least smile occasionally {unlike some}.

Kimi Raikkonen I know is a favourite of a poster here, but the reality of it is he came into Formula 1 in 2001 driving for Sauber/Petronas and actually got his super licence on the word of Peter Sauber, having not really competed at anything other than junior level, 2002 he joined Maclaren, a top team, stayed awhile then left and joined Ferrari for the highest cash reward ever paid to any driver before and since, having driven for the top two teams in virtually the whole of his career and achieving the WDC only once in that time leads me to think that perhaps he isn't as good as people think and I suspect his drive will go to an up and coming driver when his contract expires or he is replaced, the bottom line is that for a driver in his position under performs too often, sorry it's just my opinion for what it's worth.

[bangkokrick]

It's interesting to note that if they had changed the scoring system to only include Gold, Silver and Bronze, Button would be the champion already. Wasn't that a stupid idea?

I agree about it being a stupid idea but how do you work out that Button would already be World Champion? He has won six races so he would have six golds. There are ten races left, so there would be ten gold medals still available.

In fact, even with the scoring the way it is now - there only being 2 point difference between 1st and 2nd - i think realistically the season is all but over anyway.

To open things up more and make it more interesting, i'd like to see an extra point given for the pole-sitter and another point given for fastest lap of the race.

And going back to the earlier discussion about widening the tracks to provide more over-taking, i'd like to see street circuits abandoned - with the exception of Monaco for sentimental reasons. Last year the races at Valencia and Singapore were awful as it was impossible for people to pass.

Figuratively speaking! I can't see Button's season falling apart any time soon. So in my opinion he would have already won it under the proposed scoring system. Interesting comments about the extra points, maybe would be more competative.

Cheers, Rick

[rixalex]

Figuratively speaking! I can't see Button's season falling apart any time soon. So in my opinion he would have already won it under the proposed scoring system.

OK, i get your point.

My point though was that whether it be the silly medal points system, or the points system we have now, the season is effectively over in terms on the driver's title. Even if Button wins no more races, providing he finishes each race in or around the top 3 or 4 places, nobody will catch him, with the possible exception of his team mate, but even that seems highly unlikely. Not that i'm saying that's a bad thing. Button has driven brilliantly and deserves his unassailable lead.

Two English driver's champions in successive years - who would have thought?!!!

[rixalex]

joined Ferrari for the highest cash reward ever paid to any driver before and since,

I've always been a big admirer of Kimi and on his day think he's one of the fastest out there, but could never quite understand the massive pay he commands. Much like the case with Jacques Villeneuve. I think in the end it doesn't help the driver as it puts them under even greater pressure - as if the pressure isn't already enough!

Still i guess he'll retire soon and enjoy never having to work again - could be worse i suppose!

[MJo]

Kimi's pay is high mainly because of his good manager. He's on good commission

I believe he will get good results as soon as the car has the pace to win races. He lost last year to Massa so he is eager to show that he's still fast. But he's kinda guy you never know what he's gonna do. He does not give a s..t, as you can see in his interviews. He could not care less and actually hates the interviews and attention he's getting.

So i would not be surprised if he decides to retire and hang out in his boat wearing the famous gorilla outfit instead of having another season with Ferrari knowing he does not have car capable of winning races. I doubt he will go elsewhere, he has said many times that Ferrari is his last team.