Western Ideals In Regards To Relationships In Thailand

[Jingthing]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

[473geo]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing.....I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

[Jingthing]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing.....I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

You cheapen the word heroes.

[473geo]

Mute point - the description is mine you take offence at a word - not the principal statement.

[CarlBkk]

"The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do?"

Yes I do. I look down on poor girls (who may have the looks advantage) to sell their bodies and/or go for older men who buy them gifts. I look down on financially comfortable girls who do the same even more.

I respect immensely the poor girls who make a choice to study and work at the same time whilst maintaining good Thai morals. Plenty of them who wouldn't dream of taking up offers of materialsm in exchange for a fake relationship.

I have total admiration for any young girl, anywhere in the world, who when faced with the impossible choices to earn a living, put aside their own preferences, to provide for their families and children. They accept scorn and ridicule from people like youself. Yet they are prepared to suffer for the greater good, sometimes in loveless marriages far from the families they support. They are heroes.

There's a saying in Thailand that people do not starve in this country. Quite true I'm sure. Choices are still available...do you want to enough or do you want more? The girls selling themselves are quite able to be like the student in MK or 7-11 making a pittance, sharing their room and possibly sending a small amount home if it's needed. If you think the girl selling herself is doing a fine job of bettering her life financially, and helping out her family then we have very different views.

[473geo]

"The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do?"

Yes I do. I look down on poor girls (who may have the looks advantage) to sell their bodies and/or go for older men who buy them gifts. I look down on financially comfortable girls who do the same even more.

I respect immensely the poor girls who make a choice to study and work at the same time whilst maintaining good Thai morals. Plenty of them who wouldn't dream of taking up offers of materialsm in exchange for a fake relationship.

I have total admiration for any young girl, anywhere in the world, who when faced with the impossible choices to earn a living, put aside their own preferences, to provide for their families and children. They accept scorn and ridicule from people like youself. Yet they are prepared to suffer for the greater good, sometimes in loveless marriages far from the families they support. They are heroes.

There's a saying in Thailand that people do not starve in this country. Quite true I'm sure. Choices are still available...do you want to enough or do you want more? The girls selling themselves are quite able to be like the student in MK or 7-11 making a pittance, sharing their room and possibly sending a small amount home if it's needed. If you think the girl selling herself is doing a fine job of bettering her life financially, and helping out her family then we have very different views.

We do have differing views.......you assume there is a choice...my comments arise from a situation where there is none....then these girls go out into the world....some make it as 'regular' lifestyle people......others do not.....but why look down on these people....who are prepared to do things and suffer things not experienced in 'normal lifestyles', because of their belief that family must be protected and provided for.

[Geekfreaklover]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing.....I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

You cheapen the word heroes.

The word is heroine. Sorry to be obtuse.

Hero is used for a man., heroine for a lady. Or for one that assumes the role of a lady.

[473geo]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing.....I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

You cheapen the word heroes.

The word is heroine. Sorry to be obtuse.

Hero is used for a man., heroine for a lady. Or for one that assumes the role of a lady.

hel_l geek...I can't be right ALL the time!!!.......

[CarlBkk]

If it's a case of starve/homeless/family can't survive then fair enough, but I've never actually come across a case where other work options are unavailable. Of course the exception to this is the smuggling gangs/traffickers against debt which is a different matter - it's forced.

[Jingthing]

I don't buy that most prostitutes have no choice. Most are low skilled and have no other realistic option to make "easy quick money" but that is not the same thing as no choice. I also reject the myth that most are especially generous to their families back home. In my view, most squander their earnings of "sin"easy come easy go. They can do what they want but I won't let this heroine thing go. If some hooker is a hero what do we call a REAL hero?

[473geo]

I don't buy that most prostitutes have no choice. Most are low skilled and have no other realistic option to make "easy quick money" but that is not the same thing as no choice. I also reject the myth that most are especially generous to their families back home. In my view, most squander their earnings of "sin"easy come easy go. They can do what they want but I won't let this heroine thing go. If some hooker is a hero what do we call a REAL hero?

I do not think this discussion hinges on the context or meaning of one word.....I think a desperate attempt to disguise the deplorable act of 'looking down on somebody' due to their circumstances. I hope those of you who wish to follow this route feel better for your 'looking down'....

[CarlBkk]

I don't buy that most prostitutes have no choice. Most are low skilled and have no other realistic option to make "easy quick money" but that is not the same thing as no choice. I also reject the myth that most are especially generous to their families back home. In my view, most squander their earnings of "sin"easy come easy go. They can do what they want but I won't let this heroine thing go. If some hooker is a hero what do we call a REAL hero?

Yep, agree with all that. Easy money is so tempting.

I'm sure he must have intentionally been using the term "heroes" very loosely.

[Jingthing]

You got the wrong person. I don't look down. I just don't see whores as heroes or as especially moral individuals. There is more to life than sexual morality and there are different degrees of immorality. Bernie Madoff has them all beat in the immorality department.

[473geo]

You got the wrong person. I don't look down. I just don't see whores as heroes or as especially moral individuals. There is more to life than sexual morality and there are different degrees of immorality. Bernie Madoff has them all beat in the immorality department.

So if you were getting the life kicked out of you by a couple of guys.....and a group of BGs fought them off sustaining injury.....

In your book they would not be heroines......because you 'just don't see whores as heroes or especially moral individuals'

Let's just hope the occasion doesn't arise then......

[SoiGirlHunter]

I have been married 12 years now to a thai girl, so far so good. But as i mentioned before i think it was just blind luck i didnt

tie the knot with a gold digger. Its pretty bad out there, seen alot of farang get REAMED.

If my marriage ever ends - knowing what i know now - i will get young mint GFs (so easy) and change them out when any marriage pressure

came. Not worth the risk.

BTW in America the divorce rate in 60% in 5 years right now, and the guy gets absolutely fleeced in court !!

PSS A wise tuk tuk driver once told me "You are only as old as the girl u sleep with"

[Ulysses G.]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Some of them send most of their cash to their families and try to bring as much happiness as they can to their customers for relatively small amounts of money. They are not all like that, but the ones that are, are heroes as far as I'm concerned!

Edited March 22, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[jetjock]

PSS A wise tuk tuk driver once told me "You are only as old as the girl u sleep with"

I don't think that statement is correct because I am 67 and my wife is 32 however I feel like I am at least 35. After reading some of the posts and using the rule of 1/2 my age plus 7,my wife should be about 40 so it is now becoming obvious that I should divorce my wife as I am too old for her. The only problem with that idea is that if I do, I will lose the woman that now supports me .

[runner]

I think the OP is confused. I have been with women much older than I am. I was 25 and had a 40 year old girlfriend. Guess what? She still wanted my money. Age wasn't an issue. Perhaps it is because a lot of these guys just don't take care of themselves that they find themselves so desperate in their condition. Do you think anybody would want to sleep with a guy who had a giant beer belly, unshaved, and smelled like death? Comeon. I see these guys all over the place here.

[sgunn65]

Whenever people start making moral judgements over others I cannot help but look at history. It is littered with the bodies of those who were found to be judged as lower than others. The easiest way to make people feel superior is to have an identifiable target whom we can point to as lower than us. It happens everywhere.

Why are Eastern European immigrants not as prone to racism in the west as Africans? Is it because they are not so easily identifiable?

In Thailand whitening cream is everywhere. Why?

So when so of the posters here say they look down on the BG with the older farang they are looking to feel better about themselves.

But here is the rub. Looking down on people doesn't make you feel better about yourself. It is only a cover for your own insecurities. Maybe you would be better recognising that, for right or wrong, these girls have made choices. Whether you agree with their choice is immaterial.

I, for one, recognise that their job is a tough one, certainly tougher than they might think. And the damage they do to themselves may last alot longer than the money. But where there is a market there will be buyers and sellers.

Our Western sensibilities are redundant here. Whatever we might think is right and proper in the West is moot. This is Thailand and it is the Thai who must decide what is right or wrong for them. I do hold my Western morality and, frustrating though it is sometimes, I have to accept that there are things that happen in this country that I dislike. It is no good moralising about it. As someone once told me " There are 100 planes a day leaving Thailand". I don't get on them as there is more here I like than dislike.

[Dakhar]

I read a post once on a young Thai girl's blog where she criticized a Thai girl she saw shopping with a much older man. She said that although the cashier might not be able to buy the stuff that this Thai girl can because of her much older partner, the cashier can take pride in the fact that she has not stooped to this girl's level.

In Western culture, women who marry for money are looked upon badly. Many children movies contain caricatures of this type of female character and its looked upon negatively.

On this board, many go out of their way to clarify that they married a girl from a good family, a virgin, and not a girl from a bar.

The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do? Or do you views these girls as dumb for not taking the easy money?

Now many will say, that everyone make's their own choice and neither is good or bad, but I think in the back of those people's heads they make a judgment, they just choose not to share it publicly, which is fine, but this is just the internet, so share away.

What I fail to understand is the relation between the age difference and calling the girl a prostitute. Rupert Murdoch is almost 40 years older than Wendi Deng, would you call her a prostitute? She was a vice president at Star TV when they met.

Then what's wrong with a girl who chose a financially secure man that will provide a safe home and a good education to her kids? Don't you find someone who chose a mate only on his good look a bit shallow?

Now a prostitute is a prostitute, we all know what a prostitute is, and I can honestly say, and I'm talking for our friends and family, we will always be polite and respectful if one of our friend marries a prostitute but he can't expect to be invited for Christmas ...

Interesting....

I am not a Bible thumper, but apparently you really don't know what Christmas is about.

[Heng]

There most definitely is a choice. At some point for these gals (and guys), someone in their families most likely made the decision to live beyond their means... whether in terms of alcohol, motorcycle, television, cell phone, automobile, or real estate purchase. All without a care and without absolute common sense logic (no formal education required as it's simple addition and subtraction) that they would come up short at some point in the future. All without a care that someone would have to pay the bill.

Given, there is a cultural difference here in that many westerners will draw the line between self and family. If your folks screw up and put the farm in hock, you are less likely to break your back to save the farm (because it's their problem, not yours). Hence, there will be some disagreement between those who feel there is a "choice" or not.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Heng

[Dakhar]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Some of them send most of their cash to their families and try to bring as much happiness as they can to their customers for relatively small amounts of money. They are not all like that, but the ones that are, are heroes as far as I'm concerned!

.... and some of them dye in the process. Heroes or ignorant, it is hard to say.... but I pitty them, and I love them too. It is too strange and complex for me to wrap my head around. I wonder how they end up in thier older years? I'd read a book about the subject, but I know my wife would go NUTS if she saw me reading such material. I knew a bg once, and she was one of the most honest women I have ever gotten to know. Honest to the point of pain, but at least she was honest.

[henryalleman]

There is no Western or eastern style of relationships. Each individual couple form their own kind of relationship or marriage.

Different culture could cause some problems, but this is also the case in any relationship between 2 people of different upbringing, background and family;

Starting an relationship is always a lottery, because its involved 2 different people with their own character, expectations and lifestyle. Take for instance the difference between a woman and man who are from the same country, but the man is from upcountry and she is used to live in a big city. Don't you think they will not have some problems to adjust their lifestyle to each other.

So don't blame the failure of an relationship to the difference between Thai and Western culture.

Simply because something like an homogeneous Western culture don't exist.

Not yet to mention that women come from Venus and men from Mars.

[Jingthing]

Our Western sensibilities are redundant here. Whatever we might think is right and proper in the West is moot. This is Thailand and it is the Thai who must decide what is right or wrong for them.

That's ridiculous. Respectable Thais DO look down on Thai prostitutes. The percentage of Thai people who are sex workers is TINY.

[henryalleman]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing....

You cheapen the word heroes.

Correct Jingthing in your worldview you can only be a hero when you kill a few hundred enemies at the battle field.

But I rather agree with

.I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

[Jingthing]

Some perspective here. Prostitutes are human beings like any one else. However, they are rarely heroes. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Each to their own jing....

You cheapen the word heroes.

Correct Jingthing in your worldview you can only be a hero when you kill a few hundred enemies at the battle field.

But I rather agree with

.I happen to see some of the clients.....these girls are heroes!!!

You have a point, unlike you the Hitler-admiring Continental I would consider someone who had succeeded to assassinate Hitler to be a hero, too bad that didn't happen.

OK, if to you the sex worker who supports his family is a hero, then so is a coal miner who gets black lung disease to support her family. I don't think either are heroes but if one is a hero so is ANY worker who sacrifices for his family, that would make most of the planet heroes, how absurd. Both are just everyday complex human beings who do both good and bad things. If we call all such workers heroes, then what do we call someone who could have killed Hitler? What do we call a fireman who rushed into the World Trade Center to face almost certain death to try to save STRANGERS? I hope you see my point.

Show me a Thai prostitute who turns tricks to support an orphanage of kids that are NOT her relatives and I will also call her a heroine. Sacrificing to support one's own family is standard human behavior that is wired into most of us.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[henryalleman]

Whenever people start making moral judgements over others I cannot help but look at history. It is littered with the bodies of those who were found to be judged as lower than others. The easiest way to make people feel superior is to have an identifiable target whom we can point to as lower than us. It happens everywhere.

Why are Eastern European immigrants not as prone to racism in the west as Africans? Is it because they are not so easily identifiable?

In Thailand whitening cream is everywhere. Why?

So when so of the posters here say they look down on the BG with the older farang they are looking to feel better about themselves.

But here is the rub. Looking down on people doesn't make you feel better about yourself. It is only a cover for your own insecurities. Maybe you would be better recognising that, for right or wrong, these girls have made choices. Whether you agree with their choice is immaterial.

I, for one, recognise that their job is a tough one, certainly tougher than they might think. And the damage they do to themselves may last alot longer than the money. But where there is a market there will be buyers and sellers.

Our Western sensibilities are redundant here. Whatever we might think is right and proper in the West is moot. This is Thailand and it is the Thai who must decide what is right or wrong for them. I do hold my Western morality and, frustrating though it is sometimes, I have to accept that there are things that happen in this country that I dislike. It is no good moralising about it. As someone once told me " There are 100 planes a day leaving Thailand". I don't get on them as there is more here I like than dislike.

At last a man who is not feeling moral superior by unlimited self-righteousness.

[Jingthing]

At last a man who is not feeling moral superior by unlimited self-righteousness.

Yes, I was just talking to my Thai dentist the other day and she told me how very PROUD she is that her son is going to be a prostitute! She also said she was working extra hours to pay for her husband's everyday visits to the brothels, isn't a good thing that her husband has such an active social life! Musn't judge!

Edited March 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[henryalleman]

You have a point, unlike you the Hitler-admiring Continental I would consider someone who had succeeded to assassinate Hitler to be a hero, too bad that didn't happen.

OK, if to you the whore who supports his family is a hero, then so is a coal miner who gets black lung disease to support her family. I don't think either are heroes. Both are just everyday complex human beings who do both good and bad things.

Of course the coal miner you mentioned is a hero, just like my father who slaved all his life for a meagre salary to support his family and I never heard one word of complaining or self-pitty came over his lips.

He died at the age of 60 after ten year of sickness because his body was just broken by hard labour. He was a very modest man who never went out to any pub. But at his funeral the church was packed, because all people who knew him respected him, my family was very surprised and never expected it. In short he was an genuine hero in my eyes, and is still an example to follow for me, even he died 35 years ago.

If we call all such workers heroes,then what do we call someone who could have killed Hitler?

A patriot.

[Jingthing]

OK, so most everyone is a hero. Let's give every student an A every time also and pay clerks at 7-11 the same as executives. La de da ...

BTW, was it your Dad who taught you all the good things Adolph Hitler did? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...

Edited March 22, 2009 by Jingthing