Fleeing The Scene....

[chonabot]

Before I start , this isn't me having a pop at Thai people , just an observation of an incident I witnessed yesterday. Also I would be interested in your thoughts and any experiences you may have on this topic.

I went for a bike ride in Oxford with my 14 year old Thai stepson yesterday afternoon. he has been in the UK for sometime now , but still has a lot of Thai ways that will be part of his make up forever I guess.

After a few miles we decided to head back home , as it was raining a bit etc.

At one point we were riding on the pavement , no pedestrians about and still daylight. He was about 20 yards ahead of me , a parked car opened a door onto the pavement about a few seconds before he approached it , he tried to slow down but still managed to clip the door. I fully expected him to stop and at least wait for me to check everything was ok.

Instead he sped off and disappeared , as I approached the car , an irate driver climbed out and shouted a few swear words to the direction of my stepson.

I got off the bike and explained that it was also his fault for opening the door without checking anyone was passing , even though technically we should not have been riding on the pavement. He then called me a few choice words , in return I offered to close the door on his head , he declined this offer and I rode off.

Anyway when I got home Andrew ( stepson) was in the house, already sat down watching TV.

I waited about 10 minutes before asking him what he thought about the incident and why hadn't he waited for me before scarpering etc.

"I was scared" was the textbook reply.

No apologies , no interest in learning the responsible way of doing things.

" Is that it?" I asked , "Yes Dad"

Is this teenage rebellion Thai style , or has anyone had similar experiences , particularly with their Thai Step-kids ?

I have tried asking my wife about this way of behaviour , but she agrees fleeing the scene thus Saving face is the decent thing to do , even though it could place your family in harms way.

I now worry about when he and our 6 year old son Tom go out together , will he do a runner at any opportunity and leave Tom to a worse fate I wonder ?

Edited January 19, 2005 by chonabot

[Bluffer]

Its a standard response to anything threatening to their state of inner calm or being caught - run away.

Look back at newspapers reports of accidents, how many contain the phrase " and the driver fled the scene"? Lots. And if they cant run away, they will blame someone else.

In the west we mostly grow out of it, but here it continues into adulthood.

Would he leave the younger brother? Probably, unless you drill into him a sense of western responsibility.

[Thaiboxer]

Chonabot...there are a lot of revenge killings in Thailand and I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are based on somebody fleeing an accident scene leaving the victim's family with nothing. It's been said that a lot of Thais flee the scene over here, however in the West this crime is often dealt with severely as we know from growing up there. Tell your stepson that besides the damage to his conscience he'll have to face the possiblity of being somebody's sex toy in the big house for a number of years. If you flee, you may escape the law enforcement guys but could very easily end up getting into trouble with either the victim or his/her family later on.

[cdnvic]

What has he been like with his brother before? Protective, or stand-offish? It's difficult to imagine what exactly he'd do without some kind of test (hard to do), so I think you'll have to look back at how well he's taken care of your other son in the past. If he's always been very protective of him I don't think you'll have to worry. He sees you as his protector, so I doubt leaving you behind caused him any concern. His reaction should it be a little brother would probably be different.

How old was he when he left Thailand?

cv

[chuchok]

Time and environment should sort it out. The Thai way is certainly different from ours. I have watched with great enjoyment the change in many attitudes that my wife has shown over the years. Nothing forced on her either. From saying nothing when she has made a cock up and admitting nothing, to now being the first to say sorry. This has been over the last 5 years.

I also believe that in most loving Thai families, the ties between siblings is very strong. While the initial reaction is to run, the nurturing side should take over.

That’s been my experience.

[chonabot]

What has he been like with his brother before? Protective, or stand-offish? It's difficult to imagine what exactly he'd do without some kind of test (hard to do), so I think you'll have to look back at how well he's taken care of your other son in the past. If he's always been very protective of him I don't think you'll have to worry. He sees you as his protector, so I doubt leaving you behind caused him any concern. His reaction should it be a little brother would probably be different.

How old was he when he left Thailand?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was 10 , for various reasons he stayed with my wifes family for the first few years of our marriage , my wife's sisters helped to bring him up. In hindsight we should have brought him here when my wife got her visa , then Tom was born. You know how life is , it's what happens around us while we're making plans.

I think he's a good kid , but there is a distance between him and my wife , for obvious reasons , that I can't seem to bridge.

[chonabot]

Hi chonabot... a very difficult one here... I'm afraid you have a lotof 'teaching' to do... if you are going to stay in England. You will have to make your kids understand the English 'way'. He did not do wrong in his mind by running away... and his reason in his mind was legitimate. You are going to have to change the 'mind set'.

My third ex-wife phoned me in Turkey, telling me that she could not control our youngest son. He was 13 at the time and expelled from two schools already... for dealing dope. We had divorced when our son was 8. I had no idea of any of these problems, it had all been kept from me. I told her to send him to me in Turkey.

When he arrived we sat and had a chat. When I asked him what he had been doing dealing drugs. (weed) He replied quite innocently, "Oh, it is not costing me anything, I buy a fiver's worth and smoke what I want and sell the rest for a fiver." 13 years old. I did not react, but was shocked by his nievity. It was obvious to me that I had completely lost touch with life in Bournemouth... He went on to tell me how easy it all was to get grass and tablets etc etc etc...

I then set out to tell him what the Turkish police would do to him in no uncertain terms if he was found even smoking pot, let alone selling it! And I told him that I would not be able to help him one iota. (This was a fib, because I had a good Mafia friend who could have gotten us out of the &lt;deleted&gt;.)

It took a long time and a lot of patience to get his head thinking in the right direction... It will not be easy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christ! I hope that's not a scenario to come for me.

The poor lad saw his Dad die in front of him , blind drunk and walked in front of speeding Lorry , so far he hasn't shown an interest in alcohol.

I was already drinking Cider at his age.

[cdnvic]

He was 10 , for various reasons he stayed with my wifes family for the first few years of our marriage , my wife's sisters helped to bring him up. In hindsight we should have brought him here when my wife got her visa , then Tom was born. You know how life is , it's what happens around us while we're making plans.

I think he's a good kid , but there is a distance between him and my wife , for obvious reasons , that I can't seem to bridge.

Sounds similar to what happens with kids during a divorce, and the only real cure for it seems to be time. He might just need time to learn to trust that you are there to stay and he won't be alone again. Once he's willing to trust more, he'll be easier to teach by example.

We studied "fight or flight" alot in school and if you need some good news then here it is. He's unlikely to go looking for trouble, or to take silly risks and put himself in harms way. In that respect, he has the right instincts to survive, he just needs to learn to apply some boundries to it. On the other hand, he'll have trouble learning to take responsibility, but you've seen that.

Just some amature first year uni psych, but I hope it helps. A school cousellor might give you better advice as they both finished school, and probably deal with similar situations everyday.

cv

[Insight]

I think the fact that it was material damage and nobody was hurt during the incident comes into play a bit here. After all, if he did stop to apologise, what (in his view) would come out of it? A demand to cover the cost of damages perhaps?

Just trying to put myself in his shoes here. The big factor for me here was that he was with you, and owing to you lagging behind, you ended up taking the blame. I think this simple issue went unconsidered by your son owing to the initial panic...

If I was a 10 year old kid out on the streets, either by myself or with friends, and a similar incident occured, afraid to say there's every chance I would of done the same thing.

If my Dad was with me, however, I would of had to slow down, otherwise the treatment I got afterwards would of been far more difficult to deal with compared to whatever the driver of the car could threaten.

Edited January 19, 2005 by Insight

[chonabot]

Thanks for the replies so far chaps , I think you're right cdnvic , hopefully he won't be causing trouble.

Needless to say I beat the living daylights out of him after this incident.

j/k

[chonabot]

He is probably also ‘blaming’ his mother in some ways… and you must explore this too… and eradicate these feelings… If you cannot handle this yourself, perhaps some therapy is in order. Did he receive any professional help after the shock of seeing his father killed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No professional help , he was about 2 at the time , in a fairly poor family in Isaan. I don't think that would have been one of their priorities unfortunately. But I feel closer to him than his Mother does , I think I've opened a can of worms here , these things are not easily discussed with my wife , a shame because we have a very honest relationship in most areas.

Edited January 19, 2005 by chonabot

[maerim]

When my Thai step daughter rear ended a 3 week old car in Chiang Mai driven by a guy in a uniform with loads of gold braid she did not flee the scene as her car was embedded in the one in front.

Of course she was not checking her make up in the mirror and carrying on a conversation about rubbish to one of her mates on her mobile phone ( well she says she was not) at the time.

If she had it would have saved me 35,000 baht in repairs to his car plus the repairs to her motor.

The first thing I noticed when we arrived on the scene was the lack of anger, all smiles really, not sure if the smiling would have stopped if I didn't have any money to pay for the damage but contrast this to an accident in the UK people are getting shot now in road rage incidents let alone an accident.

Where there is usually not a problem with who will pay for the repairs as most people have insurance I hope.

[chonabot]

More good points chaps , yes I feel the Thai way is the opposite of Road rage Maerim , but when the 2 cultures collide.....

Rav , it seems a simple post about the incident has awakened a few other home truths. I'm known as a one-liner merchant on TV primarily. This ( self imposed) inner thought style confessions is a bit of a shock to ones system.

I'm just finishing a night shift now , I'll probably reurn to my quip happy self when i wake up!

Chon

[cdnvic]

A can of worms is right... this is a huge and important subject!

But you're doing the right thing by getting advice, and talking about it. Many others wouldn't At least we know he's got a good dad.

ps.. good advice from Ravisher.

cv