10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[Thai at Heart]

Just read the following in the Bangkok Post...

Thaksin rejects talks offer

By: AFP

Published: 3/04/2009 at 10:38 PM Fugitive former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra Friday dismissed an offer by the government to hold talks, saying it was "nonsense'' and calling for an escalation of nine-day old protests.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said earlier that he was ready to negotiate with Thaksin, who was toppled in a coup in 2006, in a bid to end a blockade of the seat of government in Bangkok by Thaksin's supporters.

But Thaksin hit back by urging his loyalists to come from all over the country to a mass rally on April 8, which the so-called "Red Shirts'' say they expect hundreds of thousands of people to attend.

"The government said they want to talk. They are just talking nonsense,'' Thaksin told the protesters camped outside Government House in a video link from an undisclosed foreign location.

"I will join with the people in calling for true democracy and solving our problems once and for all. On April 8 we will repeat the people's revolution,'' he said.

He called for "as many people as possible'' to rally on the day in Bangkok or else in provincial centres if they were unable to reach the capital.

The former premier also hit out at the privy council, having accused two of its senior members last week of masterminding the coup against him.

"I ask the people... to come out en masse, to show that we really want to share a good future, otherwise the privy councillors will drag our country backwards,'' he said.

"In a few days there will be a historic change for Thailand,'' he added.

Thousands of demonstrators have gathered outside the premier's offices in the capital since March 26, demanding that Abhisit step down and call fresh elections, and forcing the cabinet to cancel its weekly meeting on Monday.

Police said about 1,500 anti-government activists remain outside the complex in the biggest rally since the prime minister took office in December on the back of a court decision that removed Thaksin's allies from power.

They said nearly 1,000 had also staged a secondary protest outside a Bangkok duty-free shop owned by a man accused of supporting their opponents.

On his return from the G20 summit in London, Abhisit echoed his deputy's earlier call for discussions with Thaksin, but ruled out an amnesty for the exiled leader who faces a jail term for corruption.

"I will tell (Thaksin) only that the government will reassure him of a fair trial but everything must proceed under the law,'' he told reporters.

"The government's standpoint is not to bargain in order to avoid future problems,'' he said.

Yes, Thaksin is getting a little boring, but still has some entertainment value. lol

He has 1500 People in front of Government house and another 1000 in front of the duty free shop, but has grandious dillusions about hundreds of thousands of followers rushing to Bangkok to overthrow the Government. Quite comical, I must say :-)

Better get his wallet out, if he wants that many people to show up.

There are some genuine Thaksin supporters around. Some of my Thai friends support him, but none of them are going to Bangkok. They are all saying that they had enough of all the red shirt yellow shirt bull&^%$. Nobody, I know personally, is wearing a red shirt either, which leads me to believe, that the general population had enough of all this and just wants things to settle down and for the government to get a chance to do it's job.

Personally, I say, let this Government finish the current term and let the people decide in the next election, who they want. What's the hurry, poor people have their free electricity and water, the 30 Baht program is working a little more efficiently there have been some 2000 Baht stimulus handouts, with promises of more to come and infastructure projects have gotten on their way (The Chiang Mai - Chiang Dao highway finally has pavement all the way and is getting continued daily improvement and I've seen a lot of active road construction, when I drove back from Rayon a couple of weeks ago, too)

So what does the average rice farmer or poor worker in the North or Isaan have to gain from supporting Thaksin right now? Nothing, I say. He wants the billions back, let him get them by himself. I have a hard time feeling sorry for corrupt billionaires, who get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

My poor, hard working father in law, got 2000 Baht the other day and some poor neighbors have gotten free electricity for a long time now. My niece has been in the hospital under the 30 Baht program for three days this week and my mother in law was hospitalized under the 30 Baht Program last month. (When Thaksin was still running it, she got turned away several times, later passed out on the way home, with stomach pain, brought back to the hospital and they turned her away again :-(

Actions speak louder than words and people will follow whoever will help them the most.

BTW, I'm still waiting for Koo to send me a recent photo of 300,000 Reds in front of Government House. Maybe she is still counting ;-) When you show me 300,000 or more reds in Bangkok, between now and April 9th, maybe you will make a believer out of me ;-)

Anyways, it's only another 5 days to see what happens. I don't expect anything to happen, but who knows. I'll get the popcorn ready just in case.

Don't underestimate the angst of the reds.

Do you think these pieces appear in the press here by accident. I reckon there is something coming if a deal isn't done. The Dems and the PAD can't close the ears and eyes of everyone some of the time, so forget about all of the time.

Do you really believe that the crap going on on the border is just mere co-incidence. This is the army showing the Dems that they control the power. Meanwhile, the Dems are about to negotiate with their nemesis. This negotiation could not even be contemplated without someone realising that to not calm the situation down once and for all, the consequences could divide the country asunder. The mouthpiece Sondhi is champing at the bit to throw his hand back into the game. Maybe Abhisit will be the ultimate political fall guy to try to reunite the country?

It would appear to me, that someone is (rightly or wrongly)trying to do something in their belief for the long term benefit of the country and certain parts of the establishment are sabre rattling.

Shortcutting a possible irrevocable split in the country is better than letting this continue to run for 6 months more. Thank god someone cares.

[Koo82]

Not wise to make an enemy of the Privy council

You are wrong. We have no issue with Privy Council. We have a big problem with Prem only.

ONLY Prem, eh???

Are you guys putting out so much dis-information that you can't keep it straight from one week to the next?

In his speech yesterday, Thaksin accused Privy Councillor General Surayut Chulanon of leading the plan against him. Also involved in planning his ouster, according to Thaksin, were < list snipped >, and Privy Councillor Chanchai Likitchitta.

Thaksin claimed the group planned to assassinate him with a car bomb and to launch a military coup against him if that failed.

The yellows like to say we want to burn a house when we only want to kill the rats.

[sriracha john]

You are wrong. We have no issue with Privy Council. We have a big problem with Prem only.

ONLY Prem, eh???

Are you guys putting out so much dis-information that you can't keep it straight from one week to the next?

In his speech yesterday, Thaksin accused Privy Councillor General Surayut Chulanon of leading the plan against him. Also involved in planning his ouster, according to Thaksin, were < list snipped >, and Privy Councillor Chanchai Likitchitta.

Thaksin claimed the group planned to assassinate him with a car bomb and to launch a military coup against him if that failed.

The yellows like to say we want to burn a house when we only want to kill the rats.

Well, that's certainly a different sort of non-answer to my questions about the inconsistencies between what you and the Reds are saying, but uhmm... thanks, anyway.

[Koo82]

BTW, I'm still waiting for Koo to send me a recent photo of 300,000 Reds in front of Government House. Maybe she is still counting ;-) When you show me 300,000 or more reds in Bangkok, between now and April 9th, maybe you will make a believer out of me ;-)

Don't wait for me. Just go there on the 8th and count or watch Dtv online.

If you want to calm yourself down, watch them early in the morning. They all sleep somewhere and will not gather in front of the main stage.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Koo82

[Old Man River]

The leaders of the Red Shirts have made public statements many times, that there issue is not just Thaksin, but profound changes. In case that Thaksin compromises to safe his fortune alone, no doubt some of the red shirt leaders will desert the movement. Nevertheless, others will stay, and expectations have been raised under far too many Thais that these aspirations can simply be ignored.

In the end change will come, either by the present Red Shirt leadership or under a new group, with or without Thaksin. Changes have been long overdue, and are a historical inevitability.

The question is only, if there will be minimal amount of violence with the elites being open to a compromise, or if somewhere down the line there will be massive upheavals. Right now, i fear the latter will be the case, and that maybe sooner than most people think.

So, the only question you have is whether there will be a minimal amount of violence with the elites being open to a compromise or whether there will be a massive upheaval.

This is a bit limiting on thoughts isn't it? Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

[jbowman1993]

BTW, I'm still waiting for Koo to send me a recent photo of 300,000 Reds in front of Government House. Maybe she is still counting ;-) When you show me 300,000 or more reds in Bangkok, between now and April 9th, maybe you will make a believer out of me ;-)

Don't wait for me. Just go there on the 8th and count or watch Dtv online.

If you want to calm yourself down, watch them early in the morning. They all sleep somewhere and will not gather in front of the main stage.

LOL so desperate to boost the numbers that they are now "inviting" people to the rally to "Count". lol

Nothing will happen on the 8th. The reds said that on the 8th, they will "Declare victory". In reality, its probably the day they run out of money. No rally will go on through Songkran, because even the reds don't care enough about their cause to disrupt a good party and water soaking.

Koo is a true believer, and I respect that, but she is in the vast vast minority. Numbers have been small, and they might swell to 50,000 on the 8th, but 50,000 isn't that much, especially when they are being (oh wait i just saw this being phrased in a new, delightful way) "Compensated for lost opportunity".

:D

[cmsally]

Whatever the deal is it has to provide a way forward. I would presume there might be an iota of intelligence somewhere that sees this. If a forward momentum is to be achieved the possible leaders of a retribution movement have to be quelled.

If the PAD have turned on the army then they could be part of the deal. The army saw it as impossible to come out with an all out coup before and therefore used the PAD as their front, without their front guys they are back to raw power taking which won't be accepted and I think they see this.

My original question still remains as to how much the army is split, this will be a decisive factor in what happens next.

[hammered]

The leaders of the Red Shirts have made public statements many times, that there issue is not just Thaksin, but profound changes. In case that Thaksin compromises to safe his fortune alone, no doubt some of the red shirt leaders will desert the movement. Nevertheless, others will stay, and expectations have been raised under far too many Thais that these aspirations can simply be ignored.

In the end change will come, either by the present Red Shirt leadership or under a new group, with or without Thaksin. Changes have been long overdue, and are a historical inevitability.

The question is only, if there will be minimal amount of violence with the elites being open to a compromise, or if somewhere down the line there will be massive upheavals. Right now, i fear the latter will be the case, and that maybe sooner than most people think.

So, the only question you have is whether there will be a minimal amount of violence with the elites being open to a compromise or whether there will be a massive upheaval.

This is a bit limiting on thoughts isn't it? Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

This is a possibility if the military are not divided, if there intelligence tells them the reds havent got the numbers they claim or if they want to prempt the Oct 8 demo and send a message to those thinking of joining. There are a number of "ifs".

The red side will certainly pull out all the stops to mobilise for Oct 8 and a big march on Prem's house will be a tinderbox.

Many people still talk of the silent majority but if they remain silent a minority will win and then the silent majority inevitably side with the winner. Quite how both sides factor in the ilent majority and what they can get away in terms of them is also critical.

[Old Man River]

Whatever the deal is it has to provide a way forward. I would presume there might be an iota of intelligence somewhere that sees this. If a forward momentum is to be achieved the possible leaders of a retribution movement have to be quelled.

If the PAD have turned on the army then they could be part of the deal. The army saw it as impossible to come out with an all out coup before and therefore used the PAD as their front, without their front guys they are back to raw power taking which won't be accepted and I think they see this.

My original question still remains as to how much the army is split, this will be a decisive factor in what happens next.

I don't think, given what is involved, we will see a split in the military other than some want to end it now and some want a better excuse to end it. It is more a split on timing than on ideology. The Reds are now going in a different direction than Thaksin (who just wants his money back) and for the military this is a non starter.

Given Thaksin's penchant for control (CEO government), I highly doubt that even if he got his money back he would go in the same direction the Reds want to go in. No matter which side wins (Thaksin or the powers that be), the Reds will ultimately find themselves back where they started.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin: No negotiation

Tells red shirts to come out in force on April 8

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has crushed the government's hopes of ending the political impasse, rejecting outright its offer to hold talks.

In last night's video broadcast to supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Thaksin said he would not negotiate and called on red-shirt protesters to come out in force for a mass rally on April 8.

He also urged red shirts upcountry to gather at provincial halls on that day, saying they should put up a fight for major change in the country.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1452...-no-negotiation

[Steve2UK]

Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

It's Thailand and the Thai military has "form" - so never say "never". But I think it's hugely unlikely if by "steps in" you mean something that must be labelled action independent of the government - aka coup. It didn't work out too well in 2006 and now it would run counter to the stated "rule of law" wishes/policy of the very government the military wanted in place (I'll accept "welcomed" if that appeases those who insist the military played no active part in getting the present government into place). If the military "steps in" like that, it's only a limited/temporary "fix" and this game/round over - and only a matter of time before the next version of the game/round starts. IMO that would be a short time and the next version worse for them than this one.

Whether through weakness or savvy play, the present government seems set on allowing the protests to run their course - and, potentially, run out of steam - "managing" them as best they can. Failing that, there may yet be the mooted coalition re-alignment or some form of negotiated compromise with enough of the UDD/DAAD elements to diminish the impact of the rest - particularly if economic conditions get so bad that there's a strong face-saving-for-everyone case for a "national unity" coalition. Nothing certain, but the odds seem to favour the government's wait it out approach - for now, at least.

[Cayenne]

Sorry if that seems a motley collection of alternatives and I'm sure that those whose minds are already made up that "Sae Daeng" is the culprit will howl with derision. To my mind, any of these alternatives is as viable as the simplistic "Reds did it" version - certainly viable enough that one should be avoiding categorical statements that x or y or z did it. If it was "Sae Daeng" - and I grant that he must be a prime (but not the only) suspect, all that I read about him suggests a very loose cannon (not to mention some loose marbles) that was distanced from the core UDD/DAAD group. UDD/DAAD itself is no seamless monolith and has many factions/elements that are anything but coordinated. This fact is highlighted, mocked and revelled in by their critics - the same ones who are only too happy to then switch to seeing them as a homogenous entity (the "Reds") when it suits their purpose of blaming the whole for the actions of an element. Similarly, PAD is (was?) just a coalition of various interests - but very well packaged and managed in contrast to UDD/DAAD.

Very good point Steve. To me, this probably why the majority of Thais find it hard to believe that UDD/DAAD stands for true Democracy- they have too many factions (i.e. hard core Thaksinistas, Anti-monarchists, Marxists, etc.) within the group that it makes their agenda questionable. For example, some Reds are more violence prone than others (i.e. the Chiang Mai group, the group that tormented that old lady on her deathbed in Isaan, etc.) while there are other Reds who reject the use of violence (i.e. those who use heart clappers instead of feet clappers) and might privately disapprove of their violent brothers but nevertheless want to share the same spotlight. As someone mentioned earlier, some Reds (those who oppose military coups) might even not be too fond of Thaksin but nevertheless enjoy his funding to push their own agendas.

I think even Thaksin knows that he can't fully control the UDD/DAAD movement (hence the frequent phone-ins) and he is probably keeping a close eye on all of them because one day if he does return to power there is still the possibility of some of the factions returning to protest against him. Who knows? Just like some of the PAD may have joined UDD the reverse can be true as well.

[hammered]

Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

It's Thailand and the Thai military has "form" - so never say "never". But I think it's hugely unlikely if by "steps in" you mean something that must be labelled action independent of the government - aka coup. It didn't work out too well in 2006 and now it would run counter to the stated "rule of law" wishes/policy of the very government the military wanted in place (I'll accept "welcomed" if that appeases those who insist the military played no active part in getting the present government into place). If the military "steps in" like that, it's only a limited/temporary "fix" and this game/round over - and only a matter of time before the next version of the game/round starts. IMO that would be a short time and the next version worse for them than this one.

Whether through weakness or savvy play, the present government seems set on allowing the protests to run their course - and, potentially, run out of steam - "managing" them as best they can. Failing that, there may yet be the mooted coalition re-alignment or some form of negotiated compromise with enough of the UDD/DAAD elements to diminish the impact of the rest - particularly if economic conditions get so bad that there's a strong face-saving-for-everyone case for a "national unity" coalition. Nothing certain, but the odds seem to favour the government's wait it out approach - for now, at least.

That all makes sense but dont underestimate the effect of the red goading - by attacking certain people and what they stand for - on the extremely loyal and traditionalist bits of the military and bureacracy.

[Koo82]

LOL so desperate to boost the numbers that they are now "inviting" people to the rally to "Count". lol

Nothing will happen on the 8th. The reds said that on the 8th, they will "Declare victory". In reality, its probably the day they run out of money. No rally will go on through Songkran, because even the reds don't care enough about their cause to disrupt a good party and water soaking.

Koo is a true believer, and I respect that, but she is in the vast vast minority. Numbers have been small, and they might swell to 50,000 on the 8th, but 50,000 isn't that much, especially when they are being (oh wait i just saw this being phrased in a new, delightful way) "Compensated for lost opportunity".

Are you the poster who said the reds will go home on Monday? Today is Saturday

To make you happy, I expect 300 reds on the 8th plus 150 at Government House now. Total 450 reds and your handsome Abhisit will stay to serve all who support him. Thai poor people won't get much from this government because Abhisit must please Prem, top people in the Army, top yellow people holding some key positions, PAD, Newin group and hi-so.

[Koo82]

No reds will worry. Nuttawut said if they are caught now, they won't be in jail until December 2009.

PAD occupied GH more than 100 day and caused serious damages to GH from August last year and are still free until now. If reds are still outside and damage nothing, no reason to catch the reds.

Before or while blocking Suvarnabhumi, one of the reds should start calling Khun Hunsen bar bar bor bor, ei cui and heng suay . This red guy will become Foreign Minister

No problem to block Swampy because no PAD is in jail now for doing so.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Koo82

[cmsally]

Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

It's Thailand and the Thai military has "form" - so never say "never". But I think it's hugely unlikely if by "steps in" you mean something that must be labelled action independent of the government - aka coup. It didn't work out too well in 2006 and now it would run counter to the stated "rule of law" wishes/policy of the very government the military wanted in place (I'll accept "welcomed" if that appeases those who insist the military played no active part in getting the present government into place). If the military "steps in" like that, it's only a limited/temporary "fix" and this game/round over - and only a matter of time before the next version of the game/round starts. IMO that would be a short time and the next version worse for them than this one.

Whether through weakness or savvy play, the present government seems set on allowing the protests to run their course - and, potentially, run out of steam - "managing" them as best they can. Failing that, there may yet be the mooted coalition re-alignment or some form of negotiated compromise with enough of the UDD/DAAD elements to diminish the impact of the rest - particularly if economic conditions get so bad that there's a strong face-saving-for-everyone case for a "national unity" coalition. Nothing certain, but the odds seem to favour the government's wait it out approach - for now, at least.

That all makes sense but dont underestimate the effect of the red goading - by attacking certain people and what they stand for - on the extremely loyal and traditionalist bits of the military and bureacracy.

My opinion is that T knows too much for them to bite back. He is goading them into a deal.

[hammered]

Let me add this possibility. The military steps in and crushes the Reds. Game over. Didn't this possibility ever once cross your mind?

It's Thailand and the Thai military has "form" - so never say "never". But I think it's hugely unlikely if by "steps in" you mean something that must be labelled action independent of the government - aka coup. It didn't work out too well in 2006 and now it would run counter to the stated "rule of law" wishes/policy of the very government the military wanted in place (I'll accept "welcomed" if that appeases those who insist the military played no active part in getting the present government into place). If the military "steps in" like that, it's only a limited/temporary "fix" and this game/round over - and only a matter of time before the next version of the game/round starts. IMO that would be a short time and the next version worse for them than this one.

Whether through weakness or savvy play, the present government seems set on allowing the protests to run their course - and, potentially, run out of steam - "managing" them as best they can. Failing that, there may yet be the mooted coalition re-alignment or some form of negotiated compromise with enough of the UDD/DAAD elements to diminish the impact of the rest - particularly if economic conditions get so bad that there's a strong face-saving-for-everyone case for a "national unity" coalition. Nothing certain, but the odds seem to favour the government's wait it out approach - for now, at least.

That all makes sense but dont underestimate the effect of the red goading - by attacking certain people and what they stand for - on the extremely loyal and traditionalist bits of the military and bureacracy.

My opinion is that T knows too much for them to bite back. He is goading them into a deal.

You could be right on that although my point is more about there is a certain type of traditionalist military or bureacratic leader who will not care too much as they believe they are right and above it all and may well still react. There are of course more level headed calculating ones too and Anupong seems to be of this style.

If there is a deal what does T give in return for it and what does he get out of it? That isnt easy.

[Old Man River]

It's Thailand and the Thai military has "form" - so never say "never". But I think it's hugely unlikely if by "steps in" you mean something that must be labelled action independent of the government - aka coup. It didn't work out too well in 2006 and now it would run counter to the stated "rule of law" wishes/policy of the very government the military wanted in place (I'll accept "welcomed" if that appeases those who insist the military played no active part in getting the present government into place). If the military "steps in" like that, it's only a limited/temporary "fix" and this game/round over - and only a matter of time before the next version of the game/round starts. IMO that would be a short time and the next version worse for them than this one.

Whether through weakness or savvy play, the present government seems set on allowing the protests to run their course - and, potentially, run out of steam - "managing" them as best they can. Failing that, there may yet be the mooted coalition re-alignment or some form of negotiated compromise with enough of the UDD/DAAD elements to diminish the impact of the rest - particularly if economic conditions get so bad that there's a strong face-saving-for-everyone case for a "national unity" coalition. Nothing certain, but the odds seem to favour the government's wait it out approach - for now, at least.

That all makes sense but dont underestimate the effect of the red goading - by attacking certain people and what they stand for - on the extremely loyal and traditionalist bits of the military and bureacracy.

My opinion is that T knows too much for them to bite back. He is goading them into a deal.

You could be right on that although my point is more about there is a certain type of traditionalist military or bureacratic leader who will not care too much as they believe they are right and above it all and may well still react. There are of course more level headed calculating ones too and Anupong seems to be of this style.

If there is a deal what does T give in return for it and what does he get out of it? That isnt easy.

Hammered, this isn't aimed at you, but rather general comments:

No deals will happen because what each side wants from the other is non negotiable. There is no trust in which to create a deal.

Anyone who thinks the military won't step in and end this is naive. Forget 2006. Forget ideologies and forget about the average person upcountry. This isn't about them. Thaksin is using them. This is a power struggle for control, pure and simple.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Old Man River

[kurtgruen]

Thepthai: Thaksin sighted in Cambodia

By: bangkokpost.com

Published: 4/04/2009 at 12:48 PM

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has allegedly been sighted in Cambodia, says Abhisit Vejjajiva’s personal spokesman Thepthai Senpong. Thaksin was allegedly spotted near the residence of Cambodian prime minister Hun Sen.

Mr Thepthai said if this was true, the Cambodian government should clarify the matter with Thailand, similar to Lao PDR’s manner when it made clear Thaksin was banned from entering its territory. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was inspecting this issue.

....and the comedy continues

[DaleBlue]

Thepthai: Thaksin sighted in Cambodia

By: bangkokpost.com

Published: 4/04/2009 at 12:48 PM

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has allegedly been sighted in Cambodia, says Abhisit Vejjajiva's personal spokesman Thepthai Senpong. Thaksin was allegedly spotted near the residence of Cambodian prime minister Hun Sen.

Mr Thepthai said if this was true, the Cambodian government should clarify the matter with Thailand, similar to Lao PDR's manner when it made clear Thaksin was banned from entering its territory. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was inspecting this issue.

....and the comedy continues

Obama could invite Thaksin to black house if he wants. If he does, must the American clarify to Thailand?

LOL

[Koo82]

No violence to the reds please

Another reason is there are many policemen's wives, soldiers' wives and their families in the rally daily.

[Wolfie]

No violence to the reds please

Another reason is there are many policemen's wives, soldiers' wives and their families in the rally daily.

no violence, unless you wear yellow... then you will have the shit kicked out of you... doesn't matter if your a 47 year old masseur from esarn.

Lets keep it real here Koo, the reds are not all innocent - REPORTED FACT.

[Koo82]

What did they say in this Korean banner?

When the reds protested at 3 gates of Ministry of Finance, I saw a Japanese banner.

[henryalleman]

.... That's one of the reason that most socialist parties in Europe are in decline and losing election after election.

Stupid me, and here I always thought that it's because people are becoming more selfish and greedy ;-)

No, no you not stupid just made an mistake

[Koo82]

No violence to the reds please

Another reason is there are many policemen's wives, soldiers' wives and their families in the rally daily.

no violence, unless you wear yellow... then you will have the shit kicked out of you... doesn't matter if your a 47 year old masseur from esarn.

Lets keep it real here Koo, the reds are not all innocent - REPORTED FACT.

We are innocent. No condom is found around GH.

[Wolfie]

We are innocent. No condom is found around GH.

What has condoms got to do with the reported fact that your 'peaceful' rally is guilty of brutally attacking a 47 year old woman, pulling her to the ground and beating and kicking her...

[h90]

Thepthai: Thaksin sighted in Cambodia

By: bangkokpost.com

Published: 4/04/2009 at 12:48 PM

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has allegedly been sighted in Cambodia, says Abhisit Vejjajiva’s personal spokesman Thepthai Senpong. Thaksin was allegedly spotted near the residence of Cambodian prime minister Hun Sen.

Mr Thepthai said if this was true, the Cambodian government should clarify the matter with Thailand, similar to Lao PDR’s manner when it made clear Thaksin was banned from entering its territory. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was inspecting this issue.

....and the comedy continues

From the Nation:

Natthawut confident over 100,000 people will join rally Wednesday

Pheu Thai Party MP Natthawut Saikua expressed confidence on Saturday that more than 100,000 pro-Thakin red-shirted people would join a mass rally at the Government House on Wednesday.

......blablabla.....

a few days ago we spoke about 1.000.000

[henryalleman]

Re. Chamlong - why would anyone dismiss his very public life as Bangkok Governor, leader of Phalang Dharma party, and leader of Santi Asoke sect, and instead define the man by actions thirty years ago no one remembers anymore?

From what I know, our government at least 10 years ago did not approve that Santi Asoke.

Ask any monk and see how they say.

Actually it's the other way round.

Sani Asoke doesn't approve of the majority of monks

as not being true to Budhisim.

But blames the leadership not the individuals.

Court decided that the thing Chamlong practices is not allowed to be called a religion in Thailand.

Its no problem, because they don't call themselves a religion also. I guess you don't know much about Sante Asoke. In Buddhism there is not something like a God or dogma's so its not a religion but a way of life, philosophically you could even claim that Buddhism is Atheism.

BTW, IMHO they way Buddhism is practised in Thailand has not much to do with the teachings of Lord Buddha.

[henryalleman]

I accept that you say Khun T will never come back again. But he's coming back or not doesn't depend on you and other yellow posters in this forum.

I only gave my opinion, and of course his return or not , is not depend on me. But you should not take your dreams for reality. Because lets stick to the facts, all the odds are against him.

[henryalleman]

Officail members of the Sangha have a special legal status in Thailand, when Santi Asoke was excluded, they lost those rights, but that didn't make them non-religion or non-buddhists.

I think they can't collect alms like "real" monks, and they can't shave their eyebrows. On the other hand they can apply for passports and travel in and out of the country without asking for a special permission from Buddhist authorities.

Everybody who open their eyes know that the Sangha is heavily political involved and has not much to do with Buddhism.