10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[mdechgan]

If they cut off his video link then people will be following someone or a group of people who will be telling them what Thaksin told them to do--that is probably far more dangerous than him telling people directly. At least he can be held accountable for his own words.

Yeah, but that was going on before.

The relative uptick in general numbers and momentum happened

when HE started talking nightly. Cut off his bully pulpit

and the energy goes down significantly after a spell.

I think he has more than hung himself in the last week or so, anyway.

Its a catch 22. If the link is cutoff Mr. T can argue look how democracy has deteriorated. I can't even have freedom of speech, etc. But if the link is still alive then the followers get to see the great dear leader, but the opposition can show just how far out of his mind he really is.

[h90]

Ex-TRT Chatchuron <MEGA SNIP> this.

Can we settle now for the realistic expectation that the total number of demonstrators nationwide on April 8 is unlikely to break much into six figures - maybe not even that? With luck, by April 9/10 we'll see an end to the mind-numbing repetition of the same self-amusing members saying effectively the same thing in post after post with minuscule variation - and not just in this thread. zzzzzzzz..........

I'm just back from visiting the Government House area.

I was very surprised at the low numbers in front of the

stage and in the side streets (between 2.00pm and 3.30pm).

And this was before it even started to rain heavily.

Six figures nationwide maybe, but I feel the organisers are going to

need to do something radical to get the Bangkok numbers up.

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

They offer good money, so I am sure a lot people will show up....but no way 300.000....Maybe 50-100K

[h90]

If they cut off his video link then people will be following someone or a group of people who will be telling them what Thaksin told them to do--that is probably far more dangerous than him telling people directly. At least he can be held accountable for his own words.

Yeah, but that was going on before.

The relative uptick in general numbers and momentum happened

when HE started talking nightly. Cut off his bully pulpit

and the energy goes down significantly after a spell.

I think he has more than hung himself in the last week or so, anyway.

Its a catch 22. If the link is cutoff Mr. T can argue look how democracy has deteriorated. I can't even have freedom of speech, etc. But if the link is still alive then the followers get to see the great dear leader, but the opposition can show just how far out of his mind he really is.

But if he speaks every evening it gets boring after a while, he does not has anything new to tell.

[kurtgruen]

With more and more Privy council members speaking out, people might get the wrong ideas that they are speaking on behalf of the King. Perhaps that is their intention.

They are selected by HM the King and they have a lot experience, so I am sure they know what they do.

Pichitr undaunted by Thaksin's threat

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 6/04/2009 at 10:58 AM Privy Councillor Pichitr Kullavanijaya has repeated his allegation that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra laundered huge amounts of money through the Cayman Islands, and says he is not worried by the fugitive politician's threat of a defamation suit.

Gen Pichitr insisted on Monday that all the accusations he made against Thaksin were the truth -- including laundering 100 billion baht of unusual wealth and making improper comments relating to the monarchy.

The privy councillor said he would invite US ambassador Ralph Boyce, who provided him with the information, to reveal the details.about Thaksin's money in the Cayman Islands - a popular tax haven.

Thaksin had been spending his laundered money on organising political movements in Thailand, Gen Pichitr said.

Well, that explains the Ambassadors visit the other day :-)

100 Billion stashed in the Cayman Islands, that's almost three billion $ US. Would be nice, if the government could get it's hands on that. That would slow down Thaksin's trolls a bit. I don't think that too many will show up, if they don't get paid ;-)

As it is, many are already saying no, even though they are being offered money.

BTW, Monday is confusion day in Chiang Mai... since Monday is the lucky day for wearing yellow, there are all the people who wear yellow, plus some wearing red to support Thaskin...some Tuk Tuk drivers having Red Ribbons on their vehicles, others wearing yellow. Thaksin should have had his big day scheduled for Red Lucky Day (Sunday) instead; would have brought up his numbers ;-)

...BUT...since Wednesday is the day for begging and collecting Alms, maybe he can bring a bowl to Government House...or maybe, I can bring one and he'll give me one of his Billions??? I'll wear RED, I PROMISE. lol (NOT)

Edited April 6, 2009 by kurtgruen

[mdechgan]

But if he speaks every evening it gets boring after a while, he does not has anything new to tell.

Some of his speeches are really funny. More so that most of the country's soap operas and watered down dramas.

Like the times he said he was a tiger, a messiah, the savior of Thailand ready to ride into battle with God or Buddha as his personal friend.

Or he's just showing signs of dementia.

Edited April 6, 2009 by mdechgan

[mdechgan]

The Government will do anything within it's power to continue to keep it non-violent, because it''s in the Governments best interest to keep it peaceful. Water Cannons and teargas should do the trick, along with shields and other protective gear....

So in other words, Protesters will probably get wet and red-eyed a few days early and might be a little sore for a few days, but in the end, it probably won't feel much worse than the average Songkran hangover ;-)

Well they could equip the security forces with cans of yellow paint and aim at the protesters.

[kurtgruen]

The Government will do anything within it's power to continue to keep it non-violent, because it''s in the Governments best interest to keep it peaceful. Water Cannons and teargas should do the trick, along with shields and other protective gear....

So in other words, Protesters will probably get wet and red-eyed a few days early and might be a little sore for a few days, but in the end, it probably won't feel much worse than the average Songkran hangover ;-)

Well they could equip the security forces with cans of yellow paint and aim at the protesters.

lol ROFL Good idea, Mdechgan :-) Put yellow food coloring in the water trucks, before spraying them with the water canons. That should make their day. lol

(A little touch of India) ;-)

[Koo82]

We don't want to live in a fake democracy when we cannot choose our Prime Minister.

Every PM must be the one that the ruling class like. If they don't, that PM will go.

It is not democracy.

PMs bringing benefits to us will get our votes. It's just simple as that.

If Abhisit wins after a general election, we don't protest.

But he came after our party being knocked by a coup, members being banned twice and party being dissolved again. Don't argue with me Democrat is not corrupt. See the clear example that PAD did wrong but nothing has been done to punish them. It looks like they are not wrong. Democrat looks right because no one brings their cases out.

And tell the reds they should stay quiet so country can go ahead.

[h90]

But if he speaks every evening it gets boring after a while, he does not has anything new to tell.

Some of his speeches are really funny. More so that most of the country's soap operas and watered down dramas.

Like the times he said he was a tiger, a messiah, the savior of Thailand ready to ride into battle with God or Buddha as his personal friend.

Or he's just showing signs of dementia.

Well, after 50-100 phone ins it will get boring. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to bring new jokes. A lot weekly shows of famous comedians were taken away after 1-2 years (50-100 shows) as they just didn't had new ideas anymore.

Let him call in twice a day, or three times a day than we are past it in a month.

[samgrowth]

Ex-PM's motive is to likely damage revered monarchy institution: Prem

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, declaring yesterday that the goal of his fighting is to remove bureaucratic polity from the country, denied allegations that he intended to sabotage the monarchy institution.

Earlier yesterday, Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda said that Thaksin's motive in attacking people who serve His Majesty the King was likely sabotage of the revered institution.

When pressed further to answer whether he believes Thaksin wants to sabotage the monarchy by attacking people who served the King, Prem said "probably''. And when asked how he could prevent that from happening, he said, "(Thaksin) should not say".

Is what Prem said constitute to lese majeste? Privy Council President not withstanding

No I don't think so.But it is fairly evident that his actions and comments may have been very damaging to the institution, sad really.

With more and more Privy council members speaking out, people might get the wrong ideas that they are speaking on behalf of the King. Perhaps that is their intention.

Every Thai people are subject of the King. Any insult of any Thai people is an insult of the king, so LM can be applied.

[h90]

We don't want to live in a fake democracy when we cannot choose our Prime Minister.

Every PM must be the one that the ruling class like. If they don't, that PM will go.

It is not democracy.

PMs bringing benefits to us will get our votes. It's just simple as that.

If Abhisit wins after a general election, we don't protest.

But he came after our party being knocked by a coup, members being banned twice and party being dissolved again. Don't argue with me Democrat is not corrupt. See the clear example that PAD did wrong but nothing has been done to punish them. It looks like they are not wrong. Democrat looks right because no one brings their cases out.

And tell the reds they should stay quiet so country can go ahead.

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

[h90]

Every Thai people are subject of the King. Any insult of any Thai people is an insult of the king, so LM can be applied.

The silly posting of the day

[Koo82]

People put acid inside the water and donated to the reds. Nuttawut said they found the caps were not closed tight.

They said about it here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...mp;keyword=acid

Edited April 6, 2009 by Koo82

[h90]

People put acid inside the water and donated to the reds. Nuttawut said they found the caps were not closed tight.

[/url]

They said about it here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...mp;keyword=acid

No one hurt, but Nuttawut found it out when he checked the caps of all bottles......

Chance of being true =<20 %

[kenai]

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

I guess we will have to wait and see what numbers show up in 2 days. When he refused to meet last week it seemed to indicate there must be a card in his hand hes waiting to play.

here is what I consider a fair and very basic description of a run-down of events. Please let me know if Thomas Bell is accurate in his reporting.

Telegraph.co.uk

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 6:38PM BST 05 Apr 2009

One side is led by Thaksin Shinawatra. The former telecoms billionaire and deposed prime minister is a dubious champion of democracy. During his six years in power Mr Thaksin launched a "war on drugs" in which up to 2,000 alleged dealers were summarily executed by the police.

In government he was dogged by corruption allegations, apparently unable to distinguish his own business interests from those of the country. He was no friend of the free media, although censorship is worse now than it was in Thaksin's day.

On the other side is... who? Mr Thaksin has many vehement enemies among the middle and upper classes. It is difficult to tell how many because in Thailand opinion pollsters never ask the only question that really counts – who would you vote for?

They particularly object to Thaksin's alleged corruption and his government's challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Qualms over the deadly "war on drugs", on the other hand, are mostly limited to hand-wringing foreign liberals.

These well-healed opponents control most major institutions. They also claim they are acting to "protect the king", and this is where it gets difficult.

Strict laws make any criticism of the monarchy punishable with up to 12 years in jail – in practice almost any discussion of the monarchy is prohibited. Last week a man, the breadwinner for his family, was jailed for 10 years for posting "insulting" pictures of the royal family online.

King Bhumibol, 81, is "above politics" and he is widely and sincerely loved. Many Thais credit him with steering their country's modern development and intervening to solve periodic crises. The country's official doctrine of "sufficiency economics" is the king's own invention.

When politicians claim to act in the king's name they often accuse their opponents of disloyalty, potentially punishable by 12 years in jail. That can make politics very hard to talk about. Bhumibol, for his part, has been mostly silent.

In 2006 Mr Thaksin was accused of disloyalty to the king and overthrown by a military coup. Nevertheless, with Thaksin in exile, voters returned his supporters to power in elections at the end of 2007.

Mr Thaksin's one great virtue as a democrat is that he and his supporters have won each of three elections so far this decade. He is popular because for the first time in Thai history he campaigned on policies aimed at the rural majority – and then delivered. He earned massive admiration for schemes such as affordable health care.

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions. They wore the royal colour, yellow, and claimed they were acting to protect the king from Thaksin's alleged republicanism. The movement received the public endorsement of the queen.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, as the movement is misleadingly called, argued that democracy does not work in Thailand because the peasantry are too simple to vote. They want a "new politics" in which 70 per cent of parliament is appointed.

Last year's protests found widespread support among the conservative media which, in its rush to finish the Thaksinites for ever, abandoned factual reporting.

Thaksin denies that he is a republican, although some of his supporters undoubtedly are – or they are now.

At the end of last year a court dissolved the elected government and the army brass summoned political bosses to hoist a new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to power. The leaders of the airport protests were never punished – one even became foreign minister.

Now Thaksin has dropped his bomb. In live video addresses to rallies around the country he identified two retired generals who are close advisers to the king and a small group of top judges as the conspirators who plotted his 2006 ousting and have allegedly been invisibly pulling Thailand's strings ever since.

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue.

[Koo82]

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

Criminal? His wife bought a land. No corruption found. He signed ok for her to buy because laws forces so. He became criminal!

What about a boy who did not have the blood test for Army call? He's Abhisit.

Democrat Party can't go wrong because those concerned with them will be in files forever. This is Thai democracy!

Edited April 6, 2009 by Koo82

[h90]

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

Criminal? His wife bought a land. No corruption found. He signed ok for her to buy because laws forces so. He became criminal!

What about a boy who did not have the blood test for Army call? He's Abhisit.

Democrat Party can't go wrong because those concerned with them will be in files forever. This is Thai democracy!

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

[h90]

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

I guess we will have to wait and see what numbers show up in 2 days. When he refused to meet last week it seemed to indicate there must be a card in his hand hes waiting to play.

here is what I consider a fair and very basic description of a run-down of events. Please let me know if Thomas Bell is accurate in his reporting.

Telegraph.co.uk

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 6:38PM BST 05 Apr 2009

One side is led by Thaksin Shinawatra. The former telecoms billionaire and deposed prime minister is a dubious champion of democracy. During his six years in power Mr Thaksin launched a "war on drugs" in which up to 2,000 alleged dealers were summarily executed by the police.

3000 with 50 % not related to drugs

In government he was dogged by corruption allegations, apparently unable to distinguish his own business interests from those of the country.

true

He was no friend of the free media, although censorship is worse now than it was in Thaksin's day.

not sure about that, I recall that he controlled almost all media beside ASTV

On the other side is... who? Mr Thaksin has many vehement enemies among the middle and upper classes. It is difficult to tell how many because in Thailand opinion pollsters never ask the only question that really counts – who would you vote for?

I don't get that part " question that really counts – who would you vote for?"

They particularly object to Thaksin's alleged corruption and his government's challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Qualms over the deadly "war on drugs", on the other hand, are mostly limited to hand-wringing foreign liberals.

I don't know any middle class Thai who don't know about it. That it only concerns foreign liberals is pure nonsense.

These well-healed opponents control most major institutions. They also claim they are acting to "protect the king", and this is where it gets difficult.

At Thaksins time, he controlled almost all major institutions, even courts, EC, police etc etc

Strict laws make any criticism of the monarchy punishable with up to 12 years in jail – in practice almost any discussion of the monarchy is prohibited. Last week a man, the breadwinner for his family, was jailed for 10 years for posting "insulting" pictures of the royal family online.

he modified pictures, that is something different than posting real pictures. Posting fake pictures about other people would be illegal in almost every country on this planet. Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

King Bhumibol, 81, is "above politics" and he is widely and sincerely loved. Many Thais credit him with steering their country's modern development and intervening to solve periodic crises. The country's official doctrine of "sufficiency economics" is the king's own invention.

When politicians claim to act in the king's name they often accuse their opponents of disloyalty, potentially punishable by 12 years in jail. That can make politics very hard to talk about. Bhumibol, for his part, has been mostly silent.

In 2006 Mr Thaksin was accused of disloyalty to the king and overthrown by a military coup. Nevertheless, with Thaksin in exile, voters returned his supporters to power in elections at the end of 2007.

he was not overthrowned because of disloyalty. The election 2007 was won only because of massive vote buying

Mr Thaksin's one great virtue as a democrat is that he and his supporters have won each of three elections so far this decade.

and all with a never seen before electoral fraud

He is popular because for the first time in Thai history he campaigned on policies aimed at the rural majority – and then delivered. He earned massive admiration for schemes such as affordable health care.

and even more for credits which caused many farmers to loose their land, while he went thru Issan with Arab investors who wanted to buy land.

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb. Only a few guards had golf clubs most other had nothing.

They wore the royal colour, yellow, and claimed they were acting to protect the king from Thaksin's alleged republicanism.

one point of many.....

The movement received the public endorsement of the queen.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, as the movement is misleadingly called, argued that democracy does not work in Thailand because the peasantry are too simple to vote. They want a "new politics" in which 70 per cent of parliament is appointed.

always the same nonsense, not true!

Last year's protests found widespread support among the conservative media which, in its rush to finish the Thaksinites for ever, abandoned factual reporting.

Thaksin denies that he is a republican, although some of his supporters undoubtedly are – or they are now.

At the end of last year a court dissolved the elected government

because of massive fraud in the last election

and the army brass summoned political bosses to hoist a new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to power. The leaders of the airport protests were never punished – one even became foreign minister.

which PAD leader got foreign minister

Now Thaksin has dropped his bomb. In live video addresses to rallies around the country he identified two retired generals who are close advisers to the king and a small group of top judges as the conspirators who plotted his 2006 ousting and have allegedly been invisibly pulling Thailand's strings ever since.

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it. I think nice to see how Thaksin discredit himself

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue.

so half true half nonsense.

(somthing with the quote tags wrong)

[Koo82]

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Good luck to follow up 12 other cases.

Court said nothing is wrong with the land case. He became 'criminal' because of the 2550 funny Constitution Law written by those who knocked him.

[jayboy]

Thomas Fuller's article in the Daily Telegraph is generally accurate.The final sentences are spot on.

"The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue."

[Minus]

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

I guess we will have to wait and see what numbers show up in 2 days. When he refused to meet last week it seemed to indicate there must be a card in his hand hes waiting to play.

here is what I consider a fair and very basic description of a run-down of events. Please let me know if Thomas Bell is accurate in his reporting.

Telegraph.co.uk

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 6:38PM BST 05 Apr 2009

One side is led by Thaksin Shinawatra. The former telecoms billionaire and deposed prime minister is a dubious champion of democracy. During his six years in power Mr Thaksin launched a "war on drugs" in which up to 2,000 alleged dealers were summarily executed by the police.

3000 with 50 % not related to drugs

In government he was dogged by corruption allegations, apparently unable to distinguish his own business interests from those of the country.

true

He was no friend of the free media, although censorship is worse now than it was in Thaksin's day.

not sure about that, I recall that he controlled almost all media beside ASTV

On the other side is... who? Mr Thaksin has many vehement enemies among the middle and upper classes. It is difficult to tell how many because in Thailand opinion pollsters never ask the only question that really counts – who would you vote for?

I don't get that part " question that really counts – who would you vote for?"

They particularly object to Thaksin's alleged corruption and his government's challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Qualms over the deadly "war on drugs", on the other hand, are mostly limited to hand-wringing foreign liberals.

I don't know any middle class Thai who don't know about it. That it only concerns foreign liberals is pure nonsense.

These well-healed opponents control most major institutions. They also claim they are acting to "protect the king", and this is where it gets difficult.

At Thaksins time, he controlled almost all major institutions, even courts, EC, police etc etc

Strict laws make any criticism of the monarchy punishable with up to 12 years in jail – in practice almost any discussion of the monarchy is prohibited. Last week a man, the breadwinner for his family, was jailed for 10 years for posting "insulting" pictures of the royal family online.

he modified pictures, that is something different than posting real pictures. Posting fake pictures about other people would be illegal in almost every country on this planet. Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

King Bhumibol, 81, is "above politics" and he is widely and sincerely loved. Many Thais credit him with steering their country's modern development and intervening to solve periodic crises. The country's official doctrine of "sufficiency economics" is the king's own invention.

When politicians claim to act in the king's name they often accuse their opponents of disloyalty, potentially punishable by 12 years in jail. That can make politics very hard to talk about. Bhumibol, for his part, has been mostly silent.

In 2006 Mr Thaksin was accused of disloyalty to the king and overthrown by a military coup. Nevertheless, with Thaksin in exile, voters returned his supporters to power in elections at the end of 2007.

he was not overthrowned because of disloyalty. The election 2007 was won only because of massive vote buying

Mr Thaksin's one great virtue as a democrat is that he and his supporters have won each of three elections so far this decade.

and all with a never seen before electoral fraud

He is popular because for the first time in Thai history he campaigned on policies aimed at the rural majority – and then delivered. He earned massive admiration for schemes such as affordable health care.

and even more for credits which caused many farmers to loose their land, while he went thru Issan with Arab investors who wanted to buy land.

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb. Only a few guards had golf clubs most other had nothing.

They wore the royal colour, yellow, and claimed they were acting to protect the king from Thaksin's alleged republicanism.

one point of many.....

The movement received the public endorsement of the queen.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, as the movement is misleadingly called, argued that democracy does not work in Thailand because the peasantry are too simple to vote. They want a "new politics" in which 70 per cent of parliament is appointed.

always the same nonsense, not true!

Last year's protests found widespread support among the conservative media which, in its rush to finish the Thaksinites for ever, abandoned factual reporting.

Thaksin denies that he is a republican, although some of his supporters undoubtedly are – or they are now.

At the end of last year a court dissolved the elected government

because of massive fraud in the last election

and the army brass summoned political bosses to hoist a new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to power. The leaders of the airport protests were never punished – one even became foreign minister.

which PAD leader got foreign minister

Now Thaksin has dropped his bomb. In live video addresses to rallies around the country he identified two retired generals who are close advisers to the king and a small group of top judges as the conspirators who plotted his 2006 ousting and have allegedly been invisibly pulling Thailand's strings ever since.

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it. I think nice to see how Thaksin discredit himself

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue.

so half true half nonsense.

(somthing with the quote tags wrong)

Your attempt at refuting the article's points is pathetic.

The truth hurts and the pain is growing every day in Thailand.

[jbowman1993]

Your attempt at refuting the article's points is pathetic.

The truth hurts and the pain is growing every day in Thailand.

Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine...

[animatic]

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

Criminal? His wife bought a land. No corruption found. He signed ok for her to buy because laws forces so. He became criminal!

What about a boy who did not have the blood test for Army call? He's Abhisit.

Democrat Party can't go wrong because those concerned with them will be in files forever. This is Thai democracy!

You are just never gonna get it.

For her to buy the land she needs her husbands permission under Thai law.

No elected politician or his close family members

can do business with government departments under that politician.

Again Thai Law.

Thaksin KNEW that he had to give signed permission for the Rachada purchase,

Thaksin KNEW that it was a government auction, run by a department UNDER him.

He didn't care because he thought he was PM and no one would dare touch him

including Thai Law. He was wrong.

He was not forced to give his permission to her to buy the land.

He could have just said;

Sorry Potty, I can't legally give you permission to buy from this government auction.

But he didn't and ignored the law and paid the price.

From some reports, Abhisit found a legal path around conscription.

Whine about that all you want, but it's legal,

since no one has hinted at attempting to prosecute him in court over it.

Just the ineffective, lame Censure Motion that went NO WHERE....

You KNOW it went NO WHERE. Because there was nothing to it.

If there actually was something to these accusations,

they would have been acted on already.

Edited April 6, 2009 by animatic

[Siripon]

In addition, when making a bid for the land, Thaksin used his Prime Minister ID, not his personal ID, so every other bidder knew who they were up against.At that time, a very powerful man.

[Old Man River]

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

Criminal? His wife bought a land. No corruption found. He signed ok for her to buy because laws forces so. He became criminal!

What about a boy who did not have the blood test for Army call? He's Abhisit.

Democrat Party can't go wrong because those concerned with them will be in files forever. This is Thai democracy!

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Let's get this straight. Thaksin was found guilty of violating articles 4, 100 and 122 of the National Counter Corruption Commission law which bar holders of public office and their spouses from entering into a contract with the state. Since he knew about the sale, he was adjudged guilty by the Criminal Court for abusing his power as PM in facilitating the transaction.

The court's decision had nothing to do with the value of the land.

The book value that was on the FIDF's books was over THB 2 billion, based on the price they paid for the property when they seized it from a defunct company in 1995 (the top of the market). After 1997, real estate market values plummeted. Ultimately, the property was sold to Pojamon in 2004 at a price of THB 772 million, which was above the market value at that time. This led to a large loss from the FIDF's value on its books, but a good price for the FIDF based on the value of the land at that time.

[h90]

How about the TRT, PPP, PTP tries to win one election without electoral fraud. Without electoral fraud you would still have Somchai as PM. It is not that TRT and PPP were dissolved without reason. As well I don't know any country in which criminals can get PM.

Thaksin was corrupt like no other PM before and everyone working for a company had to do once with his clan.

An election is only done democratic if it is done honest!

Criminal? His wife bought a land. No corruption found. He signed ok for her to buy because laws forces so. He became criminal!

What about a boy who did not have the blood test for Army call? He's Abhisit.

Democrat Party can't go wrong because those concerned with them will be in files forever. This is Thai democracy!

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Let's get this straight. Thaksin was found guilty of violating articles 4, 100 and 122 of the National Counter Corruption Commission law which bar holders of public office and their spouses from entering into a contract with the state. Since he knew about the sale, he was adjudged guilty by the Criminal Court for abusing his power as PM in facilitating the transaction.

The court's decision had nothing to do with the value of the land.

The book value that was on the FIDF's books was over THB 2 billion, based on the price they paid for the property when they seized it from a defunct company in 1995 (the top of the market). After 1997, real estate market values plummeted. Ultimately, the property was sold to Pojamon in 2004 at a price of THB 772 million, which was above the market value at that time. This led to a large loss from the FIDF's value on its books, but a good price for the FIDF based on the value of the land at that time.

You forgot that it was not allowed to build higher buildings on that land. This was removed 1 week after Pojamon bought that land. That made it a pretty low value for everyone else who might consider to buy it and puts an even worse light on that.

Anyhow it is just 1, 12 other cases are pending.

Of course it is a little bit like Al Capone......

[Old Man River]

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Let's get this straight. Thaksin was found guilty of violating articles 4, 100 and 122 of the National Counter Corruption Commission law which bar holders of public office and their spouses from entering into a contract with the state. Since he knew about the sale, he was adjudged guilty by the Criminal Court for abusing his power as PM in facilitating the transaction.

The court's decision had nothing to do with the value of the land.

The book value that was on the FIDF's books was over THB 2 billion, based on the price they paid for the property when they seized it from a defunct company in 1995 (the top of the market). After 1997, real estate market values plummeted. Ultimately, the property was sold to Pojamon in 2004 at a price of THB 772 million, which was above the market value at that time. This led to a large loss from the FIDF's value on its books, but a good price for the FIDF based on the value of the land at that time.

You forgot that it was not allowed to build higher buildings on that land. This was removed 1 week after Pojamon bought that land. That made it a pretty low value for everyone else who might consider to buy it and puts an even worse light on that.

Anyhow it is just 1, 12 other cases are pending.

Of course it is a little bit like Al Capone......

And that is what I thought the courts were going to get him on (big time abuse of power), but that is a separate issue from the market value of the land at the time of bid. The FIDF had actually put the property up for bid prior to this auction, but pulled it back when bid prices were too low. I guess this is before Thaksin came up with the idea to change the zoning.

[animatic]

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Good luck to follow up 12 other cases.

Court said nothing is wrong with the land case. He became 'criminal' because of the 2550 funny Constitution Law written by those who knocked him.

Who tells you this bullshit????

He is a convicted criminal for ignoring the anti-graft laws

on the books DURING HIS ADMINISTRATION.

His one conviction was based on laws on the books BEFORE he became PM.

He ignored them thinking he had to much power for anyone to dare fuc_k with him.

He was wrong and now is a convicted criminal.

Edited April 6, 2009 by animatic

[monkfish]

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Good luck to follow up 12 other cases.

Court said nothing is wrong with the land case. He became 'criminal' because of the 2550 funny Constitution Law written by those who knocked him.

Who tells you this bullshit????

He is a convicted criminal for ignoring the anti-graft laws

on the books DURING HIS ADMINISTRATION.

His one conviction was based on laws on the books BEFORE he became PM.

He ignored them thinking he had to much power for anyone to dare fuc_k with him.

He was wrong and now is a convicted criminal.

FIDF is not a state agency! Case overturned! next please!

[kenai]

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

I guess we will have to wait and see what numbers show up in 2 days. When he refused to meet last week it seemed to indicate there must be a card in his hand hes waiting to play.

here is what I consider a fair and very basic description of a run-down of events. Please let me know if Thomas Bell is accurate in his reporting.

Telegraph.co.uk

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 6:38PM BST 05 Apr 2009

One side is led by Thaksin Shinawatra. The former telecoms billionaire and deposed prime minister is a dubious champion of democracy. During his six years in power Mr Thaksin launched a "war on drugs" in which up to 2,000 alleged dealers were summarily executed by the police.

3000 with 50 % not related to drugs

I will give you 3000 and the 50%

In government he was dogged by corruption allegations, apparently unable to distinguish his own business interests from those of the country.

true nothing new with politicians of emerging countries i suppose

He was no friend of the free media, although censorship is worse now than it was in Thaksin's day.

not sure about that, I recall that he controlled almost all media beside ASTV

Sondhi Limthongkul aka Leaderof the PAD aka Thai Media Mogul used media under his control to start the whole anti-thaksin movement

this is a man who lobbied against Thailand paying off foreign debt and apparently his own debt. When it didnt work he turned against his friend and became enemys.

On the other side is... who? Mr Thaksin has many vehement enemies among the middle and upper classes. It is difficult to tell how many because in Thailand opinion pollsters never ask the only question that really counts – who would you vote for?

I don't get that part " question that really counts – who would you vote for?"

Have you ever seen an across the board poll of thai citizens asking - who would you vote for? If its been done its never been published

They particularly object to Thaksin's alleged corruption and his government's challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Qualms over the deadly "war on drugs", on the other hand, are mostly limited to hand-wringing foreign liberals.

I don't know any middle class Thai who don't know about it. That it only concerns foreign liberals is pure nonsense.

I agree most middle class do know about it, even the poor. Thing is do they care, would it affect how they vote? How many thai citizens appreciate human rights, im sure many were pleased considering it a clean-up - how many know or honestly care much about Rohingya boat people.

These well-healed opponents control most major institutions. They also claim they are acting to "protect the king", and this is where it gets difficult.

At Thaksins time, he controlled almost all major institutions, even courts, EC, police etc etc

I dont think its surprising in an emerging country who is in the very infancy of democracy at best (and as of lately it cant be called even this), to have a Prime Minister with far more power then is truly democratic.

Strict laws make any criticism of the monarchy punishable with up to 12 years in jail – in practice almost any discussion of the monarchy is prohibited. Last week a man, the breadwinner for his family, was jailed for 10 years for posting "insulting" pictures of the royal family online.

he modified pictures, that is something different than posting real pictures. Posting fake pictures about other people would be illegal in almost every country on this planet. Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

No comment

King Bhumibol, 81, is "above politics" and he is widely and sincerely loved. Many Thais credit him with steering their country's modern development and intervening to solve periodic crises. The country's official doctrine of "sufficiency economics" is the king's own invention.

When politicians claim to act in the king's name they often accuse their opponents of disloyalty, potentially punishable by 12 years in jail. That can make politics very hard to talk about. Bhumibol, for his part, has been mostly silent.

In 2006 Mr Thaksin was accused of disloyalty to the king and overthrown by a military coup. Nevertheless, with Thaksin in exile, voters returned his supporters to power in elections at the end of 2007.

he was not overthrowned because of disloyalty. The election 2007 was won only because of massive vote buying

here is a paragraph from wikipedia (thaksin)

Election results and by-elections

Thaksin's TRT Party won the widely boycotted elections, gaining 462 seats in Parliament, with the ratio of voters to no-voters 16:10, not counting non-voters.^[105]

However, by-elections were needed for 40 TRT candidates who failed to win the minimum 20% required by the 1997 Constitution in an uncontested seat.^[106][107] The Democrat Party refused to contest them^[106] and, along with the PAD, petitioned the Central Administrative Court to cancel them.^[108] Chamlong Srimuang declared that the PAD would ignore the elections and "go on rallying until Thaksin resigns and Thailand gets a royally-appointed prime minister".^[109]

They were held on 25 April and resulted in the TRT winning 25 of the constituencies and losing 2. Yet another round of by-elections on 29 April was scheduled for 13 constituencies. The Thai Rak Thai Party was later accused and found guilty of paying smaller parties to contest the election to fulfill the 20% rule, while the Democrat Party was accused of paying smaller parties not to. The by-elections were suspended by the Constitution Court while it deliberated whether to annul the main elections. In press interviews in exile, Thaksin was to insist on his technical majority.^[110]

Thakskin had already won the election - to say there was massive vote buying, is to make it sound like voters got a 100 baht at the polling booth - it wasnt that way.

Im not saying its right at all. Just saying its not the way it happened. The coup happened in Sept. before the Oct re-election. Maybe they knew what the next likely results were going to be.

If Thaksin is a hero to the poor why wouldnt he have the majority support?

Mr Thaksin's one great virtue as a democrat is that he and his supporters have won each of three elections so far this decade.

and all with a never seen before electoral fraud

He is popular because for the first time in Thai history he campaigned on policies aimed at the rural majority – and then delivered. He earned massive admiration for schemes such as affordable health care.

and even more for credits which caused many farmers to loose their land, while he went thru Issan with Arab investors who wanted to buy land.

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb. Only a few guards had golf clubs most other had nothing.

I think you must have been reading the local Bkk press and I was out of the country seeing and reading press in the US. What I saw was mobs of people with yellow here and there committing violence. It can all be seen on youtube. I also saw the airport closed, heard of tourist killed in car accidents on there way to other airports. The airport is an International airport and has no part in politics of thailand. It was a stupid move and it cost the country dearly.

They wore the royal colour, yellow, and claimed they were acting to protect the king from Thaksin's alleged republicanism.

one point of many.....

The movement received the public endorsement of the queen.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, as the movement is misleadingly called, argued that democracy does not work in Thailand because the peasantry are too simple to vote. They want a "new politics" in which 70 per cent of parliament is appointed.

always the same nonsense, not true!

The idea was thrown out there for a time - either way, this government was not elected and still calls itself democratic. - not true

Last year's protests found widespread support among the conservative media which, in its rush to finish the Thaksinites for ever, abandoned factual reporting.

Thaksin denies that he is a republican, although some of his supporters undoubtedly are – or they are now.

At the end of last year a court dissolved the elected government

because of massive fraud in the last election

and the army brass summoned political bosses to hoist a new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to power. The leaders of the airport protests were never punished – one even became foreign minister.

which PAD leader got foreign minister

Key appointments in Abhisit's government included PAD leader Kasit Piromya as Foreign Minister Massage parlor tycoon Pornthiva Nakasai was appointed Deputy Commerce Minister. Abhisit denied that there was any bargaining or deal-making behind the appointment of his Cabinet (wikipedia)

Now Thaksin has dropped his bomb. In live video addresses to rallies around the country he identified two retired generals who are close advisers to the king and a small group of top judges as the conspirators who plotted his 2006 ousting and have allegedly been invisibly pulling Thailand's strings ever since.

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it. I think nice to see how Thaksin discredit himself

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue.

so half true half nonsense.

50% is better then I give most the english papers here regarding politics Im sure I come across as a big Thaksin fan, honestly I just like to get to the truth. Im a fan of democracy and human rights. This is Thailands battle and I really dont consider myself a part of it. I pay taxes and vote in my own country.

(somthing with the quote tags wrong)

Edited April 6, 2009 by kenai