Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[edwardmoulton]

Actually, this article gets the point across even more clearly. Everyone is focussing on Thaksin but the bigger issue here is freedom and democracy. Thaksin is just the only guy at the moment who has the motivation to press for change whether for his own personal gain or the good of the country. The point is that he would not have any support if there were not a lot of people unhappy in Thailand with the way things have been run for too long...

Looking for signs of progress

By: Atiya AchakulwisutPublished: 7/04/2009 at 12:00 AMNewspaper section: News What is in a number? Many analysts have said it is the numbers that matter, that the future of the Red movement depends solely on whether or not it can draw up to 300,000 protesters tomorrow, as advertised by its leaders.

I disagree. I think numbers are not the whole point. After all, 300,000 seems totally haphazard. It does not signify a critical mass, nor does it present a form of majority or any kind of popular consent. For me, the issue is not how big the Red Surge will be (of course, if there are 30 million red shirts out there then it's another story); the issue, rather, is that the rally has woken up a "Red Spirit." It has broken a glass ceiling, a taboo. It put an idea into people's minds, that it is okay to challenge what has long been held as a given. That is a much more important notion for us to be aware of, than speculating about the size of tomorrow's crowd.

The full editorial opinion from the Bangkok Post can be viewed here.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Jai Dee
Bangkok Post link added

[Samuian]

Well as "the man" went all the way to reveal "the truth" I hope the attacked reveal what he has been hiding for the time being.

As there are these rumors about the cayman millions.. about, about, about...

I think he is walking on really thin ice.

What about the flurry of ex-trt's flocking to Cambodia...?

[caf]

Thaksin sues Privy Councillor for defamation

A lawyer yesterday filed a police complaint on behalf of Thaksin Shinawatra, accusing a privy councillor of defamation.

Lawyer Vichit Plangsrisakul, who submitted the complaint, said Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya, an adviser to His Majesty the King, made defamatory remarks when he accused Thaksin of plotting to overthrow the monarchy and making 100 Billion Baht while serving as prime minister for six years.

During his interview with reporters at the Defence Ministry last week, Pichitr said he was informed by a former American Ambassador that Thaksin had deposited his money in Cayman Islands, which is known as a haven for money laundering.

The retired general said yesterday that he was not worried about the legal action by the fugitive ex-premier.

"I believe in what I said; they are all true," he added.

Pichitr said that he would invite Ralph Boyce, the former US Ambassador to Thailand who informed him about money laundering on Cayman Islands, to be his witness.

He also said he had learned that Thaksin spent his deposits in the Cayman Islands in his political campaign in Thailand.

- The Nation / 2009-04-07

I find it hard to believe that a us ambassador would have had a conversation such as that as ambassadors are normally more diplomatic ( that is why they are called diplomats they can never get wrong footed)

I also can't see the US allowing him to be a witness or allowing him to make any further comment given the US Thai relationship

I am not saying none of this is true just I have difficulties with it.

[Lovia]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

[edwardmoulton]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That is the point and have you noticed recently how EVERY speech asks the nation to protect the revered institutions from Thaksin....? The only thing Thais will revere more than him is being used against him in a very dirty way. If they disagree with Thaksin, his policies or his call for a new order why don't they talk about that? Never, only say he should go to jail and not attack the old order.... ummmm Looks to me like it is not ok in their eyes to open up taboo subjects but fine for them to incite feeling against him by linking him as the antithesis of what Thais revere....

[Journalist]

Thaksin sues Privy Councillor for defamation

Lawyer Vichit Plangsrisakul, who submitted the complaint, said Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya, an adviser to His Majesty the King, made defamatory remarks when he accused Thaksin of plotting to overthrow the monarchy and making 100 Billion Baht while serving as prime minister for six years.

- The Nation / 2009-04-07

Quite probably true about the ill gotten gains !

Making it even funnier that the expats speculate ad nauseam that Thaksin is down to his last few dollars !!

[h90]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

yes, and how they can sit an listen that Thaksin is attacking Privy council, the courts and the Army. The three institutions direct under HM the King without thinking that really he has a problem with the monarchy.

[Lovia]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That is the point and have you noticed recently how EVERY speech asks the nation to protect the revered institutions from Thaksin....? The only thing Thais will revere more than him is being used against him in a very dirty way. If they disagree with Thaksin, his policies or his call for a new order why don't they talk about that? Never, only say he should go to jail and not attack the old order.... ummmm Looks to me like it is not ok in their eyes to open up taboo subjects but fine for them to incite feeling against him by linking him as the antithesis of what Thais revere....

Yes, I agree with you too Edward. Have you seen the article that they interviewed Princess Sirindhorn in the US ? She said that the PAD is actually doing it for themselves. I loathed that Sonthi Limthongkul, whenever they interview him about the royal he always makes it sounds as if they listen to his every words, how close he was to them etc; BS.

[hammered]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That is the point and have you noticed recently how EVERY speech asks the nation to protect the revered institutions from Thaksin....? The only thing Thais will revere more than him is being used against him in a very dirty way. If they disagree with Thaksin, his policies or his call for a new order why don't they talk about that? Never, only say he should go to jail and not attack the old order.... ummmm Looks to me like it is not ok in their eyes to open up taboo subjects but fine for them to incite feeling against him by linking him as the antithesis of what Thais revere....

Yes, I agree with you too Edward. Have you seen the article that they interviewed Princess Sirindhorn in the US ? She said that the PAD is actually doing it for themselves. I loathed that Sonthi Limthongkul, whenever they interview him about the royal he always makes it sounds as if they listen to his every words, how close he was to them etc; BS.

It is quite refreshing for someone on here to be condemning both th eyellow and red shirts which you seem to have done over a couple of threads. Usually posters support one side or the other

[plachon]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That's one of the tragedies of Isaan. They have been so used to the patronage system (sakdina) where the local jao por (godfather) on the one hand provides for them (e.g. gives them a bit of money for weddings/funerals/votes) and with the other hand takes back double the amount of money (plus interest) back through controlling the local economy and govt projects (with their lucrative 20-50 % wastage), that they have never had the benefit of a decent democratic system to compare against. Thaksin just systematised this existing sakdina system even more, cynically slipping a few crumbs to the masses, while bleeding them even more than ever before, and ironically they loved him for it. Bonded slaves often love their master the world over!

But their "hate" for the Democrat Party says more about the 50 years plus of propaganda against it by those masters who saw it as a threat to their own lucrative control over the local economies. When Thaksin and the TRT got in, they entrenched their power base in many constituencies by spreading further hate against the Democrats (making them out as a party that "only cared for the South and full of Muslims") and in some cases using violence against local Democrat canvassers and efforts to set up local offices. Not unlike the Reds tactics these past 18 months.

Divisive politics propagated by Thaksin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

[Samuian]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That's one of the tragedies of Isaan. They have been so used to the patronage system (sakdina) where the local jao por (godfather) on the one hand provides for them (e.g. gives them a bit of money for weddings/funerals/votes) and with the other hand takes back double the amount of money (plus interest) back through controlling the local economy and govt projects (with their lucrative 20-50 % wastage), that they have never had the benefit of a decent democratic system to compare against. Thaksin just systematised this existing sakdina system even more, cynically slipping a few crumbs to the masses, while bleeding them even more than ever before, and ironically they loved him for it. Bonded slaves often love their master the world over!

But their "hate" for the Democrat Party says more about the 50 years plus of propaganda against it by those masters who saw it as a threat to their own lucrative control over the local economies. When Thaksin and the TRT got in, they entrenched their power base in many constituencies by spreading further hate against the Democrats (making them out as a party that "only cared for the South and full of Muslims") and in some cases using violence against local Democrat canvassers and efforts to set up local offices. Not unlike the Reds tactics these past 18 months.

Divisive politics propagated by Toxin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

If there is a tragedy - this is the very core of it!

The TRT and it's proxies has and is trying to split the country... for their advantage only,

there is so much deceit going on that it is genuinely very difficult to stay on track about

who is who and what is really going on.

But his and the trail of his followers are all too clearly soiled with endless greed and massive deception!

[h90]

My relatives in Esarn(Yes, I am a khon Thai Esarn) said that they supported the red shirts because they hated the Democrat Party, who don't care about them about their well being when they're in power. They liked Thaksin a lot basically because he've given them money and they thought during the time when TRT was in power, they've made Thailand "Go Inter". But when I asked them if they ever thought of abolishing the old order or the Sakdina, they said

"E lar(young niece) Did you get that kind of idea from the farangs ? Thaksin never think of doing that! And we have definitely not thought of it before, we are NO traitors.

That's one of the tragedies of Isaan. They have been so used to the patronage system (sakdina) where the local jao por (godfather) on the one hand provides for them (e.g. gives them a bit of money for weddings/funerals/votes) and with the other hand takes back double the amount of money (plus interest) back through controlling the local economy and govt projects (with their lucrative 20-50 % wastage), that they have never had the benefit of a decent democratic system to compare against. Thaksin just systematised this existing sakdina system even more, cynically slipping a few crumbs to the masses, while bleeding them even more than ever before, and ironically they loved him for it. Bonded slaves often love their master the world over!

But their "hate" for the Democrat Party says more about the 50 years plus of propaganda against it by those masters who saw it as a threat to their own lucrative control over the local economies. When Thaksin and the TRT got in, they entrenched their power base in many constituencies by spreading further hate against the Democrats (making them out as a party that "only cared for the South and full of Muslims") and in some cases using violence against local Democrat canvassers and efforts to set up local offices. Not unlike the Reds tactics these past 18 months.

Divisive politics propagated by Toxin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

You morons don't get it yet ?

This is the end .

the end of time?

the end of human being?

the end of Thailand?

the end of ThaiVisa?

the end of silly postings?

the end of Thaksin?

The end of the year? (Thailand New Year?)

[kurtgruen]

If I was back in my country, I would say "It's time for nud_e Politics" (of course, the following this is purely fictional, as public nudity is illegal in this country)...

Lets just all take off our clothes and the whole Red/yellow problem will be over ;-)

[Oberkommando]

Divisive politics propagated by Thaksin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

Thaksin is the current bogeyman.

Before it was the Communists and left wing students.

There's only ever been one "campaign of hate" emanating from Thailand and it isn't from the red side.

It seems the lessons of Thammasat University in 1976 have been so quickly forgotten.

[Siripon]

Divisive politics propagated by Thaksin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

Thaksin is the current bogeyman.

Before it was the Communists and left wing students.

There's only ever been one "campaign of hate" emanating from Thailand and it isn't from the red side.

It seems the lessons of Thammasat University in 1976 have been so quickly forgotten.

Thaksin a bogeymen!! Ah, the fat red shirted woman who tried to attack Aphisit in Pattaya yesterday actually only wanted to embrace him, and her friends who smashed the back window and threw objects only wanted to get close to him to have a chat?

[plachon]

Divisive politics propagated by Thaksin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

Thaksin is the current bogeyman.

Before it was the Communists and left wing students.

There's only ever been one "campaign of hate" emanating from Thailand and it isn't from the red side.

It seems the lessons of Thammasat University in 1976 have been so quickly forgotten.

You're not actually comparing a convicted criminal tax evader and human rights abuser with a $5 million a year spending habit and in self-imposed exile while fomenting inusrrection in Thailand with 1970s CPR members and left wing idealists, are you?????

Unbelievable. Seems you are as deluded and twisted as your Red hero.

Go and ask your hero's proxy puppet PM Samak about that incident at Thammasat. Didn't notice you or Thaksin dispute his version that only one person died that day.

[samgrowth]

If I was back in my country, I would say "It's time for nud_e Politics" (of course, the following this is purely fictional, as public nudity is illegal in this country)...

Lets just all take off our clothes and the whole Red/yellow problem will be over ;-)

Godiva.

[LannaTai]

Thaksin wants to take back his dirty money and power. That's the real motive to redshirt movement, there’s no 'true democracy' in his mind and those who are supporting him now because they believe in his propaganda of ‘change’ will certainly head for a rude awakening.

I would say before supporting a politician, lets take a look at his records. In 6 years during his premiership, did he care for removing the 'injustice', 'patronage system' or whatever he keeps ranting about? Did he do anything to move the country toward freedom of the press, free and fair election system, truly independent justice system, basic human right, etc? If some redshirts simply love the crook, that's fine to me but please don't tell people that you are supporting 'democracy' because you and I know full well true democracy won't be achieved with Thaksin regime.

If Thaksin is a true patriot, he should respect Thai laws and return to fight his case in court or just serve his jail time. He once compared himself with Nelson Mandela to his audience. Now, I want to laugh. Mandela went to jail! But Thaksin simply believes he’s above all Thai laws unless it benefits him. During his term he’s shown that the laws and the judges can be modified, changed to his own benefit. Is that fair to the people of Thailand? Is that called ‘democracy’ in your view, you redshirt supporters?

The chaos will not end if the redshirts win (well, they will fail). Dream on about ‘change’ in Thailand like those academic leftists love to say. There is also huge faction in Thai society who believe justice needs to be served. That means whoever cheated or betrayed his country for his own gain needs to be punished. As long as Thaksin hasn’t been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

[wayfarer108]

Thaksin wants to take back his dirty money and power. That's the real motive to redshirt movement, there’s no 'true democracy' in his mind and those who are supporting him now because they believe in his propaganda of ‘change’ will certainly head for a rude awakening.

I would say before supporting a politician, lets take a look at his records. In 6 years during his premiership, did he care for removing the 'injustice', 'patronage system' or whatever he keeps ranting about? Did he do anything to move the country toward freedom of the press, free and fair election system, truly independent justice system, basic human right, etc? If some redshirts simply love the crook, that's fine to me but please don't tell people that you are supporting 'democracy' because you and I know full well true democracy won't be achieved with Thaksin regime.

If Thaksin is a true patriot, he should respect Thai laws and return to fight his case in court or just serve his jail time. He once compared himself with Nelson Mandela to his audience. Now, I want to laugh. Mandela went to jail! But Thaksin simply believes he’s above all Thai laws unless it benefits him. During his term he’s shown that the laws and the judges can be modified, changed to his own benefit. Is that fair to the people of Thailand? Is that called ‘democracy’ in your view, you redshirt supporters?

The chaos will not end if the redshirts win (well, they will fail). Dream on about ‘change’ in Thailand like those academic leftists love to say. There is also huge faction in Thai society who believe justice needs to be served. That means whoever cheated or betrayed his country for his own gain needs to be punished. As long as Thaksin hasn’t been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

Well-considered post. The redshirts are in fact anti-democratic, the equivalent of Nawaphon/Red Gaur/Village Scouts movement against students and workers of the 1970s, and Thaksin is the new Thanom.

Edited April 9, 2009 by wayfarer108

[thailien8]

As long as Thaksin hasn’t been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

Yes, this is my interpretation of those signs the red-shirts are carrying that read "NO Justice (NO) Peace" tho they probably see it differently.

[animatic]

Divisive politics propagated by Thaksin has bred the "hate" you see in your relatives, which is a tragedy for Thailand in my opinion. Until Thaksin is brought to book and silenced, his hate campaign will continue to pollute minds throughout the Kingdom. (imho).

Thaksin is the current bogeyman.

Before it was the Communists and left wing students.

There's only ever been one "campaign of hate" emanating from Thailand and it isn't from the red side.

It seems the lessons of Thammasat University in 1976 have been so quickly forgotten.

Thaksin a bogeymen!! Ah, the fat red shirted woman who tried to attack Aphisit in Pattaya yesterday actually only wanted to embrace him, and her friends who smashed the back window and threw objects only wanted to get close to him to have a chat?

Of course several currently viewed personages were rable rousing and

CAUSING GREATER PROBLEMS BACK THEN.

Some have since remade themselves positively others never changed a jot.

Edited April 9, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

Thaksin wants to take back his dirty money and power. That's the real motive to redshirt movement, there’s no 'true democracy' in his mind and those who are supporting him now because they believe in his propaganda of ‘change’ will certainly head for a rude awakening.

I would say before supporting a politician, lets take a look at his records. In 6 years during his premiership, did he care for removing the 'injustice', 'patronage system' or whatever he keeps ranting about? Did he do anything to move the country toward freedom of the press, free and fair election system, truly independent justice system, basic human right, etc? If some redshirts simply love the crook, that's fine to me but please don't tell people that you are supporting 'democracy' because you and I know full well true democracy won't be achieved with Thaksin regime.

If Thaksin is a true patriot, he should respect Thai laws and return to fight his case in court or just serve his jail time. He once compared himself with Nelson Mandela to his audience. Now, I want to laugh. Mandela went to jail! But Thaksin simply believes he’s above all Thai laws unless it benefits him. During his term he’s shown that the laws and the judges can be modified, changed to his own benefit. Is that fair to the people of Thailand? Is that called ‘democracy’ in your view, you redshirt supporters?

The chaos will not end if the redshirts win (well, they will fail). Dream on about ‘change’ in Thailand like those academic leftists love to say. There is also huge faction in Thai society who believe justice needs to be served. That means whoever cheated or betrayed his country for his own gain needs to be punished. As long as Thaksin hasn’t been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

Excellent post.

The guy is about as dishonest on most levels as anyone I have ever vieweed.

[scorecard]

Thaksin wants to take back his dirty money and power. That's the real motive to redshirt movement, there’s no 'true democracy' in his mind and those who are supporting him now because they believe in his propaganda of ‘change’ will certainly head for a rude awakening.

I would say before supporting a politician, lets take a look at his records. In 6 years during his premiership, did he care for removing the 'injustice', 'patronage system' or whatever he keeps ranting about? Did he do anything to move the country toward freedom of the press, free and fair election system, truly independent justice system, basic human right, etc? If some redshirts simply love the crook, that's fine to me but please don't tell people that you are supporting 'democracy' because you and I know full well true democracy won't be achieved with Thaksin regime.

If Thaksin is a true patriot, he should respect Thai laws and return to fight his case in court or just serve his jail time. He once compared himself with Nelson Mandela to his audience. Now, I want to laugh. Mandela went to jail! But Thaksin simply believes he’s above all Thai laws unless it benefits him. During his term he’s shown that the laws and the judges can be modified, changed to his own benefit. Is that fair to the people of Thailand? Is that called ‘democracy’ in your view, you redshirt supporters?

The chaos will not end if the redshirts win (well, they will fail). Dream on about ‘change’ in Thailand like those academic leftists love to say. There is also huge faction in Thai society who believe justice needs to be served. That means whoever cheated or betrayed his country for his own gain needs to be punished. As long as Thaksin hasn’t been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

Excellent post.

The guy is about as dishonest on most levels as anyone I have ever vieweed.

Totally agree, well said.

I will give thaksin one thing, he's a clever strategist and a clever marketer (but also a man with no ethics and no morals, and a blatant liar).

He now uses the red shirts (many of whom are not thinkers) to try to reverse history by claiming he and them are just trying to promote true democracy, and to try to somehow punish the military for conducting a coup which threw him out of office.

Thaksin conveniently forgets that he did a lot of very serious damage to true/pure democracy in Thailand during his reign.

Thaksin also conveniently forgets that the coup in the early 90's was lead by General Sunthorn, who just after the coup granted Thaksin a licence to start up a telecom company. To this day there are open questions of how this happened, especially since there was no announcement that licences were available and no bidding for licences.

Well given that Thailand is still a long way from having a stable democratic system, and 80% of the elected parliament are thieves, perhaps we still need a watchdog. Perhaps that watchdog is the military, but of course we need to hope that the military is the good guys. And right now I see General Anupong as intelligent, ethical and sincere, with the best long-term interests of Thailand at heart.

Ultimately, although it pains me to say this, I'm glad the coup in 2006 happened.

Why, because it frightens me to think where Thailand would be today under Thaksin the dictator. Probably well down the road to being another Burma.

[Koo82]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

If we get back democracy, we all will live with the Prime Minister we vote for, and those anti-democratic people will not make coup again.

They can badmouth us and Khun Thaksin forever, because we don't have the same view. I feel very sorry for the losers. They cannot win elections and try to make people think they are clean and Khun Thaksin is dirty.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Koo82

[jayboy]

Thaksin wants to take back his dirty money and power. That's the real motive to redshirt movement, there's no 'true democracy' in his mind and those who are supporting him now because they believe in his propaganda of 'change' will certainly head for a rude awakening.

I would say before supporting a politician, lets take a look at his records. In 6 years during his premiership, did he care for removing the 'injustice', 'patronage system' or whatever he keeps ranting about? Did he do anything to move the country toward freedom of the press, free and fair election system, truly independent justice system, basic human right, etc? If some redshirts simply love the crook, that's fine to me but please don't tell people that you are supporting 'democracy' because you and I know full well true democracy won't be achieved with Thaksin regime.

If Thaksin is a true patriot, he should respect Thai laws and return to fight his case in court or just serve his jail time. He once compared himself with Nelson Mandela to his audience. Now, I want to laugh. Mandela went to jail! But Thaksin simply believes he's above all Thai laws unless it benefits him. During his term he's shown that the laws and the judges can be modified, changed to his own benefit. Is that fair to the people of Thailand? Is that called 'democracy' in your view, you redshirt supporters?

The chaos will not end if the redshirts win (well, they will fail). Dream on about 'change' in Thailand like those academic leftists love to say. There is also huge faction in Thai society who believe justice needs to be served. That means whoever cheated or betrayed his country for his own gain needs to be punished. As long as Thaksin hasn't been punished from his corruption and abuse of power charges, there will be no peace in this country.

Well-considered post. The redshirts are in fact anti-democratic, the equivalent of Nawaphon/Red Gaur/Village Scouts movement against students and workers of the 1970s, and Thaksin is the new Thanom.

So why if this is the case did the same people who financed the murderous fascists you refer to in the 1970's fund the yellow shirted PAD?

[tcris52]

I sense that 10% agree with the Reds and 10% agree with the Yellows. The remaining 80% know that whichever faction gets the power, it won't make an iota of difference in their lives.

Edited April 9, 2009 by tcris52

[samgrowth]

I think the government have make it very clear.

It is OK to take the AIRPORTS.

However it is not OK to take the ROADS.

Old news

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...discuss-thaksin

Thaksin and Dalai Lama comparison by Kasit.

Edited April 9, 2009 by samgrowth

[LannaTai]

So why if this is the case did the same people who financed the murderous fascists you refer to in the 1970's fund the yellow shirted PAD?

Who are those people? Please enlighten me.

[LannaTai]

Thaksin cannot pretend that he’s such a democratic hero. He also had close ties to certain military juntas in the past, mainly for his business deals. He became rich by winning some government contracts. Do you really believe that he came off those deals clean and fair? Thaksin had to bow over and over to those powerful juntas and politicians and bribed his way until he hit it big with his cellphone deal. Thaksin kept close tie with Gen Soonton, one of the masterminds who ordered coup against PM Chartchai then.

He learned that money talks in Thailand. You would have thought that after becoming a PM he would ‘change’ the tradition of doing business in Thailand. No, he just wanted to be the most powerful man so he won’t have to bow to anyone ever again. And with his money, he can make people serve him.

After Chartchai’s government was thrown out by Gen Suchinda and Gen Soonton, Thaksin was no where in sight to fight for democracy. It’s PAD leader, Khun Chamlong and Democrat Party who made it clear they would boycott the Gen Suchinda’s government. I was there. I hate the juntas so much all my life. I remember those who support or don’t support the dictators.

Without HM intervention, there will be more blood on the streets. The military would seize control of Thailand indefinitely. So when I hear some misinformed foreigners blaming the monarch, like they are obstructing true democracy. I feel pain and angry. Because of his present on that day, we stopped fighting completely. The military government stepped down. We finally had an election again. Democrat party led by Khun Chuan Leekpai, who’s unlike Thaksin, is a poor man all his life finally won enough votes to form the government.

Vote buying was still rampant in the rural areas then but before Thaksin era, there was no party who could win more than 50% of the MP seats, Thai government would be set up by the coalition of different parties. Who won the most MP votes would win the PM seat. It’s always like that until Thaksin came into the picture and with his money, started buying out those small parties. He put small, medium size parties together even before the election was held and started Thai Rak Thai. Thaksin is the only one who can do something like that because no other politician can match his enormous financial resources.

Now Thaksin has lost his power and a lot of money and friends. Can he keep different groups in his party intact? The longer Democrat party rules this country, the more chance he would lose more support because there will be more MPs who would want to switch sides. Some people just don’t like being with the sinking ship.

[Virin]

Well-considered post. The redshirts are in fact anti-democratic, the equivalent of Nawaphon/Red Gaur/Village Scouts movement against students and workers of the 1970s, and Thaksin is the new Thanom.

Thanom lost power and fled the country, he was a monk when he came back Thailand. After leaving monkhood he stopped political activities completely, his family and himself spent their lives in low profile.