Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[jbowman1993]

What ever happened to "We will not disrupt the Summit", Koo? Another lie?

[Ricardo]

Abhisit is hosting ASEAN Summit Plus 3 in Pattaya at Royal Beach Cliff Resort.

The reds protested there yesterday with no weapons as usual but were turned away by groups wearing black and dark blue using rubber strings to shoot glass balls.

The reds went back to gather near BigC.

Nuttawut said 10 minutes ago that there are groups wearing black and dark blue having guns, knifes, bombs and other weapons trying to stop the reds. The reds are calling more reds to come and help.

The red leaders who are at Pattaya now said there are no reporters from regular TV channels.

Abhisit government last night at 23:00 had order from court to catch red leaders for causing traffic problems.

Now no police is out to stop black and dark blue people.

George just posted an article, in a separate thread, reporting that the Red Shirts are carrying "giant firecrackers, molotov cocktails, sling shots and batons".

And the Red Shirts are also reported elsewhere to have attacked foreign reporters, which perhaps explains the lack of media, on-site ?

This suggests that the situation is not as one-sided as Koo believes. Hope that it stays calm, as armed riots might make it impossible, for the military not to intervene.

[ray23]

Intersting it's democracy only when people agree with you. They dont stop them from talking. That is anarchy not Democracy.

Why don't the Police handle because they have been specifically told not to.

welcome to political correctness.

[junkofdavid2]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

Just watched on TV 7 a different story... throwing stones and obviously Molotov cocktails means "unarmed"????

I think most are aware that the reds are desperate, and desperate people do stupid things, which is what we are seeing today. Unbelievable that the police can't handle this.

The PAD was also "desperate" with waning public support and popularity... and so look what they did. And not only that... look what they were able to "get" because of what they did, despite meager public support.

NEVER underestimate a "losing and desperate" political group. Never.

[sriracha john]

Nuttawut said 10 minutes ago that there are groups wearing black and dark blue having guns, knifes, bombs and other weapons trying to stop the reds. The reds are calling more reds to come and help.

I guess The Nation story is completely wrong then? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-shirts-B...tt-t256266.html

Which begs the question can this and at least a few more threads get closed or merged in order to consolidate discussion of the topic?

In the interest of order (and easier moderation too), do we need to have 13 topics currently opened and spread throughout various forums and sub-forums?

Edited April 11, 2009 by sriracha john

[grandpops]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

Just watched on TV 7 a different story... throwing stones and obviously Molotov cocktails means "unarmed"????

I think most are aware that the reds are desperate, and desperate people do stupid things, which is what we are seeing today. Unbelievable that the police can't handle this.

Unbelievable is that many on the PAD side have yet to realise they are reaping the first part of what they supported the PAD in sewing.

The PAD action was mearly a rear guard action from a failing desperate self interest group clinging to power having failed to gain it in rigged elections. This is the real thing.

The numbers have always been with the rural poor and Bangkok has always overthrown their representatives, insulted them as being stupid and ignorant to vote and being disloyal to the crown.

[Koo82]

I saw some photos here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7994619.stm

[Koo82]

Moreover, the premier also ordered police to disperse the red shirts and to use weapons on the protesters.

Arisamun claimed the victory of managing to break into the hall, saying this was the day the people, particularly the red shorts showed their power and their love of the democracy.

He reasoned the invasion as Abhisit could not find the ones who shot the taxi drivers. Instead, Abhisit ordered to use violence to disperse them.

He claimed he and the red shirts will stay peacefully in the hall but the government have to find the shooters.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...ed-shirt-leader

[Koo82]

In the interest of order (and easier moderation too), do we need to have 13 topics currently opened and spread throughout various forums and sub-forums?

We had the topic "Red shirt demonstration" in General topic forum but it was closed.

[CTM]

I’m confused.

As a farang, I was supposed to hate Taksin when he was in office.

Hate the army for the coup.

Hate the yellow shirts for protesting and taking over the airport.

Now am I supposed to hate the red shirts or the new group of blue shirts or both?

Do I have to avoid wearing red, yellow, and blue shirts or risk attack? I’m running short of colors in my shirt closet.

[waza]

I'm confused.

As a farang, I was supposed to hate Taksin when he was in office.

Hate the army for the coup.

Hate the yellow shirts for protesting and taking over the airport.

Now am I supposed to hate the red shirts or the new group of blue shirts or both?

Do I have to avoid wearing red, yellow, and blue shirts or risk attack? I'm running short of colors in my shirt closet.

Dont for get Camouflage = army

[ray23]

I’m confused.

As a farang, I was supposed to hate Taksin when he was in office.

Hate the army for the coup.

Hate the yellow shirts for protesting and taking over the airport.

Now am I supposed to hate the red shirts or the new group of blue shirts or both?

Do I have to avoid wearing red, yellow, and blue shirts or risk attack? I’m running short of colors in my shirt closet.

Not supposed to hate anyone, this is just a discussion from people who have absolutley no say what happens here. Not really our business. Our business it to simply enjoy our lives here. don't get to fired up over this history will show none of this is really unusual here. So if you enjoy disecting another way of life, this is a good one. But if your really looking for answers. See History Thailand.

This one is about over and the next guy will accept seasonal employment. Wear any color you want don't attend ralley's

[brahmburgers]

The police are useless. I don't understand why they even pay them.

These guys don't get paid. They make most of their dough through other various means!

DIDN'T THE UN CALL THEM THE WORLDS BIGGEST ORAGANIZED GROUP OF CRIMINALS. HOWEVER - I THINK THEY WERE WRONG IN REFERING TO THEM AS ORGANIZED - MORE LIKE LABOTOMIZED

The police in Pattaya, by not reacting dynamically, were nevertheless taking orders from higher authority. We can blame their bosses, but let's not for a moment assume the cops are spineless. Now, with their 'face' tarnished, they'll likely be eager to show how tough they can be. Don't be surprised if the next confrontation winds up with much bloodshed.

[Koo82]

The reds said that Arisamun was caught this morning at home. They are threatening government to bring Arisamun back within 3 hours in one peace. All PAD are still free until now. Arisamun led the reds into Royal Cliff Beach Resort to announce that the reds don't accept Abhisit as PM and that they were attacked by the dark blues. After that they all went back to Bangkok.

[chowder]

what PAD did was within the country interest like government house, airport, etc..., you can only hurt yourself as a Thai

but when you threaten foreign leader it is a different situation, hard action need to be taken immediately, no country would allow protester to storm the facility that world leader are stay, you will be shot on site, luckily the foreign leader personal guard didn't have to go into action themself, they would shoot if you ever come close to the leader.

Edited April 12, 2009 by chowder

[h90]

The reds said that Arisamun was caught this morning at home. They are threatening government to bring Arisamun back within 3 hours in one peace. All PAD are still free until now. Arisamun led the reds into Royal Cliff Beach Resort to announce that the reds don't accept Abhisit as PM and that they were attacked by the dark blues. After that they all went back to Bangkok.

That would be the first good news since days!

[Sandstone Art]

The reds said that Arisamun was caught this morning at home. They are threatening government to bring Arisamun back within 3 hours in one peace. All PAD are still free until now. Arisamun led the reds into Royal Cliff Beach Resort to announce that the reds don't accept Abhisit as PM and that they were attacked by the dark blues. After that they all went back to Bangkok.

Poor reds. Always attacked by others. Now who got a larger numbers of people at the Resort?

Edited April 12, 2009 by Sandstone Art

[Sandstone Art]

The reds said that Arisamun was caught this morning at home. They are threatening government to bring Arisamun back within 3 hours in one peace. All PAD are still free until now. Arisamun led the reds into Royal Cliff Beach Resort to announce that the reds don't accept Abhisit as PM and that they were attacked by the dark blues. After that they all went back to Bangkok.

If there is any ISC ( Internal Security Act ) in Thailand, I hope that the govenment will put that to good use.

Lock that sq skull headed up with any others that is causing trouble ! Maybe also throw away the keys!

[VegasVic]

what PAD did was within the country interest like government house, airport, etc..., you can only hurt yourself as a Thai

but when you threaten foreign leader it is a different situation, hard action need to be taken immediately, no country would allow protester to storm the facility that world leader are stay, you will be shot on site, luckily the foreign leader personal guard didn't have to go into action themself, they would shoot if you ever come close to the leader.

"what PAD did was within the country interest like government house, airport ect." So bringing commerce to a standstill, taking thousands of tourists hostage, and in the process doing irrepairable harm to the future of Thai tourisim was all in the countries interest You have a very slanted and bizzare view of what PAD did!!! BTW from all the accounts that I have read about the recnt situation in Pattaya there were no foriegn leaders ever threatened nor were any of those leaders ever in hrms way The recent demonstrations are just another sad chapter in Thailands recent turbulent history, but the fact that none of the PAD leaders who siezed the airport have been brought to justice yet is far more dangerous to Thailands future as a potential tourist destination. The rest of the world saw the airport shutdown as a criminal act that was way over the top, and since no judicial action has been taken against the purpotrators then it is seen by many that this action was condoned and could easily occur again.

[p_brownstone]

I can’t help but wonder if the confrontation yesterday was all a rather complex strategy by the Government to achieve various ends.

The Blue shirts were obviously far too few in number to have any chance of facing off the Red shirts.

The Government recognized that the Army units deployed would be useless in fending off an attack because the soldiers are from the same level of society as the Red shirts and thus have a great deal of empathy with them; you only have to watch TV footage of the way the soldiers and the Red shirt protesters were laughing and joking together – both in Bangkok standoffs and in Pattaya.

So perhaps the Blue shirts were deliberately sent out to provoke the Red shirts into attacking the Hotel, an act which – although it caused the Government some loss of face – made it into an International incident by putting Foreign dignitaries at risk, thus a much more serious offence than inconveniencing a few thousand Tourists as when the Yellow shirts occupied the Airports.

At the same time it demonstrated to the Prime Ministers and other senior officials in ASEAN Countries that Thaksin is deliberately fomenting anti-democratic revolution in Thailand – something which many of them fear within their own Countries. Plus, to some extent every ASEAN leader lost face having to flee their important Summit – and many vital issues were not discussed as planned, something which will delay economic recovery in the Region – a delay which some attendees may have cause to regret.

Perhaps that too was part of the scheme; to make nearby ASEAN Countries realize what a self-interested nuisance Thaksin is in the great scheme of things and therefore make them more willing to extradite him – or at least not allow him to use their Territories for his inflammatory video links etc..

Patrick

[h90]

what PAD did was within the country interest like government house, airport, etc..., you can only hurt yourself as a Thai

but when you threaten foreign leader it is a different situation, hard action need to be taken immediately, no country would allow protester to storm the facility that world leader are stay, you will be shot on site, luckily the foreign leader personal guard didn't have to go into action themself, they would shoot if you ever come close to the leader.

"what PAD did was within the country interest like government house, airport ect." So bringing commerce to a standstill,

???? commerce was like always during that time

taking thousands of tourists hostage, and in the process doing irrepairable harm

the tourism had almost recovered, people had forgotten about it

to the future of Thai tourisim was all in the countries interest You have a very slanted and bizzare view of what PAD did!!! BTW from all the accounts that I have read about the recnt situation in Pattaya there were no foriegn leaders ever threatened nor were any of those leaders ever in hrms way The recent demonstrations are just another sad chapter in Thailands recent turbulent history, but the fact that none of the PAD leaders who siezed the airport have been brought to justice yet

as the protested OUTSIDE and the airport shut down on itself. Like the red shirts protest outside and the foreign leader would decide on themself to go home

is far more dangerous to Thailands future as a potential tourist destination. The rest of the world saw the airport shutdown as a criminal act that was way over the top, and since no judicial action has been taken against the purpotrators then it is seen by many that this action was condoned and could easily occur again.

and now the rest of the world saw it happen again in Pattaya. They don't care the different color of TShirts. The saw the airport thing and now they see "again troubles in Thailand"

[Scott]

It's all poor planning. Someone couldn't buy enough blue shirts to keep the red shirts away!

I love it here. It's like living in a live comedy show.

[h90]

I can’t help but wonder if the confrontation yesterday was all a rather complex strategy by the Government to achieve various ends.

The Blue shirts were obviously far too few in number to have any chance of facing off the Red shirts.

The Government recognized that the Army units deployed would be useless in fending off an attack because the soldiers are from the same level of society as the Red shirts and thus have a great deal of empathy with them; you only have to watch TV footage of the way the soldiers and the Red shirt protesters were laughing and joking together – both in Bangkok standoffs and in Pattaya.

So perhaps the Blue shirts were deliberately sent out to provoke the Red shirts into attacking the Hotel, an act which – although it caused the Government some loss of face – made it into an International incident by putting Foreign dignitaries at risk, thus a much more serious offence than inconveniencing a few thousand Tourists as when the Yellow shirts occupied the Airports.

At the same time it demonstrated to the Prime Ministers and other senior officials in ASEAN Countries that Thaksin is deliberately fomenting anti-democratic revolution in Thailand – something which many of them fear within their own Countries. Plus, to some extent every ASEAN leader lost face having to flee their important Summit – and many vital issues were not discussed as planned, something which will delay economic recovery in the Region – a delay which some attendees may have cause to regret.

Perhaps that too was part of the scheme; to make nearby ASEAN Countries realize what a self-interested nuisance Thaksin is in the great scheme of things and therefore make them more willing to extradite him – or at least not allow him to use their Territories for his inflammatory video links etc..

Patrick

Maybe, specially there are military units from the south, who are strong anti-thaksin. If it was a trap, it was an expensive one.

[brahmburgers]

Abhisit may have to take a leaf from the Chinese book on how to break up demonstrations (chapter 27, Tiennamen Square): and bring in troops from different districts (from the protesters). As the previous post said, there are a lot of police/military from southern Thai provinces that have no love for Thaksin or his paid problem makers. And not just troops from the south.

I don't want to see bloodshed, but it's getting to 'push becomes shove' stage, and the boys in uniform aren't going to be restrained next time, as they were at the Pattaya hotel. They lost face big time, and are probably itching to show everyone how tough they can be. And any Thailand watchers can attest that, once they get to the gnarly business of shooting people, they have little restraint.

A glowing example is the double massacres in the Muslim areas (Tak Bai, and the other incident). At those killings, Thaksin was supposed to be in charge, certainly at the 2nd and larger imbroglio, where nearly a hundred muslim boys died from being stacked like cord wood in the back of parked trucks. But did Thaksin take any responsibility when things went awfully bad? Of course not - never has and never will.

[Koo82]

I start seeing some people on the red stage. They smell that the reds are about to win so they show their faces. They did not show faces before.

So I say we should not stick to people. They may change. Stick to the aim that when true democracy is back, voice of majority will be respected. If the leader is not good, we won't vote for them again. No need of coup because those who become PM after coups don't know how to develop Thailand. They are just big people in society after pleasing the ruling class. Most of them are not capable for PM job.

[redman]

The police are useless. I don't understand why they even pay them.

These guys don't get paid. They make most of their dough through other various means!

DIDN'T THE UN CALL THEM THE WORLDS BIGGEST ORAGANIZED GROUP OF CRIMINALS. HOWEVER - I THINK THEY WERE WRONG IN REFERING TO THEM AS ORGANIZED - MORE LIKE LABOTOMIZED

The police in Pattaya, by not reacting dynamically, were nevertheless taking orders from higher authority. We can blame their bosses, but let's not for a moment assume the cops are spineless. Now, with their 'face' tarnished, they'll likely be eager to show how tough they can be. Don't be surprised if the next confrontation winds up with much bloodshed.

Dunno about that. If I had a motosyke, I sure would be wearing a helmet for the next few days. Got to prove they have a use now that "international grade security" (as postulated last week) is out the window

[CTM]

I'm confused.

As a farang, I was supposed to hate Taksin when he was in office.

Hate the army for the coup.

Hate the yellow shirts for protesting and taking over the airport.

Now am I supposed to hate the red shirts or the new group of blue shirts or both?

Do I have to avoid wearing red, yellow, and blue shirts or risk attack? I'm running short of colors in my shirt closet.

Dont for get Camouflage = army

Military attire is already illegal.

[madi]

I'm confused.

As a fa-rang, I was supposed to hate Taksin when he was in office.

Hate the army for the coup.

Hate the yellow shirts for protesting and taking over the airport.

Now am I supposed to hate the red shirts or the new group of blue shirts or both?

Do I have to avoid wearing red, yellow, and blue shirts or risk attack? I'm running short of colors in my shirt closet.

Dont for get Camouflage = army

Military attire is already illegal.

Of course you should avoid all talk of politics with Thais. It is not our fight is it.

If things get ugly, farangs can and WILL all run home or to other nations. Thai people cannot do that.

Good luck to Thailand and all Thais.

I am for peace at almost any cost but that does not seem to be in the cards.

Love my Thai friends and wish them all well.

[hammered]

I start seeing some people on the red stage. They smell that the reds are about to win so they show their faces. They did not show faces before.

So I say we should not stick to people. They may change. Stick to the aim that when true democracy is back, voice of majority will be respected. If the leader is not good, we won't vote for them again. No need of coup because those who become PM after coups don't know how to develop Thailand. They are just big people in society after pleasing the ruling class. Most of them are not capable for PM job.

Kudos Koo you stick with what you berieve in, and kudos to you

[wayfarer108]

Some protesters join the Red, but DO NOT support Thaksin. Some just don't like the way the army stage a coup to kick elected governmant out, rewrite election rules, and place their people in high places, distribute tax money to themselves (double defense budget allocation), etc. Giles is a good example.

You're absolutely right. There is a will to change a century old system, very deep will, Thaksin is just the way. I'm sure that for every red that supports Thaksin there is a least one or two who is here because they oppose the PAD, the democrats and what they represent.

There is something much bigger going on but as the saying goes, don't be fooled by the tree hiding the forest.

Nice effort to sound like you know what you're talking about. In fact what the reds stand for is more of the same failed electoral system. It fails all parties since whoever gets in power by election is soon ejected by one faction or another who feel disenfranchised. Right now red support is at an all-time low and it appears that even if an election were held now, they would lose. But even if they win it will only be a short time before another mass protest begins, whether yellow or whatever color. Then when they get in power, the reds or whoever will come out, and so on without end. Thailand's electoral system is in bad need of reform. The PAD offered a way out of this vicious cycle in their New Politics but unfortunately their bad behaviour - now clearly outdone by the Reds - means no one listened. So we're back to square one, buying votes, buying parties, not proportional or social representation. This cycle is not new, it has been revolving since the 1940s. The red and Thaksin have no solution to offer at all.