How To Deal With Extreme Attitudes

[Travel2003]

America doesn't have indigenous people. If you're referring to Amerindians, they're Asians who begin crossing the Bering Land Bridge roughly 20,000 to 50,000 years ago.

that would mean that no country has indigenous people, and that the whole classification and self-identification of indigenous people the world over is just a fiction, because no-one really comes from anywhere.

I thought we once upon a time came from Africa.

A bit afraid of stepping on a political/racial land mine here, but is that what "American Indians" call themself these days?

[sanook2me]

A spade is a spade in Thailand and Burmese are looked upon as lowlife - stealing low paid jobs - commiting crimes etc .... heard it all before ?

England - Eastern Europeans

At least here the true voice of the nations feeling is allowed to be spoken publicly

Chai yo for Thailand and long may racism be an open topic in the LoS

[patklang]

You know SBK I like you and try to respect alot of what you say but sometimes you seem to have very strange opinions that must come when you marry into the country and start to feel defensive about anything negative pointed out. Thai people are racist, so are other countries, but to deny that Thai people have a problem with racism is denying the sky is blue. Racism comes from ignorance, fear and lack of proper education and is compounded by xenophobic nationalistic propaganda. That is Thailands description perfectly. Thailands got many great things, but an attitude of equality and acceptance of foreigners from neighbouring countries is NOT one of them.

I have to agree with you there mate,Thailand is one of the most racist places on Earth,but luckily only verbally.If i wasnt white no chance would i live here,but the non pc way suits me down to the ground.

There is a huge snob culture her too,unlike anything i have seen.

[Samuian]

You know SBK I like you and try to respect alot of what you say but sometimes you seem to have very strange opinions that must come when you marry into the country and start to feel defensive about anything negative pointed out. Thai people are racist, so are other countries, but to deny that Thai people have a problem with racism is denying the sky is blue. Racism comes from ignorance, fear and lack of proper education and is compounded by xenophobic nationalistic propaganda. That is Thailands description perfectly. Thailands got many great things, but an attitude of equality and acceptance of foreigners from neighbouring countries is NOT one of them.

Even it is a generalization, but agree to it's core message, it simply is so, out of various reasons, but it is so, some sort of superiority complex... (sorry, isn't meant to offend but to point out a serious attitude problem! and it isn't about "other countries do have similiar problems it is about the attitude of some of the the people here....)

So back to the question posed by the OP, how to deal with Extreme Attitudes in Thailand, ignore? educate? confront?

well, will be a long road, eradicate through education, by making clear that we

are (globally) not different just because we are from a different nation, with a different flag!

Guess there are some old sentiments against the burmese attacking and ransacking Sukhothai and Ayuttya.

It will go away one day, as the east/west propaganda of the cold war has faded over time!

Edited March 31, 2009 by Samuian

[philw]

You know SBK I like you and try to respect alot of what you say but sometimes you seem to have very strange opinions that must come when you marry into the country and start to feel defensive about anything negative pointed out. Thai people are racist, so are other countries, but to deny that Thai people have a problem with racism is denying the sky is blue. Racism comes from ignorance, fear and lack of proper education and is compounded by xenophobic nationalistic propaganda. That is Thailands description perfectly. Thailands got many great things, but an attitude of equality and acceptance of foreigners from neighbouring countries is NOT one of them.

Absolutely spot on mate.

Completely true.

[sbk]

interesting how many people choose to attack me on this one here. I was asked what MY HUSBAND thought. I was not asked what alot of Thai people think. I was not asked what my husband thinks Thai people think. Read it again. I did not deny the existence of these attitudes and if you will read what I posted, you will see that quite clearly.

Fact is, I do not find bigotry and ignorance attractive, so, amazingly enough, married someone who is neither ignorant, nor a bigot.

[girlx]

with all due respect SBK, i am surprised you would not agree that Thais are blatantly and virulently racist against the Burmese, especially where you live on KPG! it's quite shocking how they are treated in fact.

[sbk]

Please do read what I said. thanks. Because, I, for one, have had enough of people putting words in my mouth.

[cclub75]

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

Indeed... what a poor insight... As admin he should know better. I'm speechless.

It's astonishing to see how easily people can drop total non sense, like this, with a doctoral tone...

Edited March 31, 2009 by cclub75

[sbk]

Read what I wrote before posting attacks thanks. it might help if you did instead of quoting someone else's post.

[bkkjames]

maybe everyone should take a deep breath.

In the end, whether or not we think the locals discriminate against others will not make much difference in the larger context - regardless of which side - we think is correct.

I know in Canada we discriminate against Native Indians and I am sure there is disc against other visible minorities as well.

The world ain't perfect and the sooner everyone stops trying to make it so, perhaps there will be less need to stereotype, generalise and be biased.

Personally, I know thais that fit the mold as described, but I also know some that don't. Generally, the former is made up of folks who have never travelled to those 'weird places' to get a taste of the culture.

I bet there are alot of us on here could look at our countries and see similar examples.

Thankfully it's lunch time.

[Moonrakers]

I don't discriminate against anybody.

I hate everybody with equal measure.

[runner]

A lot of them work at construction sites. Anybody shagged one? heehee.

[notasexpat]

So in reality you are a very poor farang who's married a poorer asian and is now annoyed by the poor people surrounding him in his poor environment?

get a job and get yourself a house or real condo, move away from the poor side of this country?

u wont get ANY attitude if you stop hanging out in 1mil baht condo, guesthouses, 500k baht moo baan, sexpat pubs

They will still dislike her but they wont touch/talk to her.

Same same as indians in canada or american, people with money hate them but they just ignore them and move far away from them. In slums/redneck areas/texas they beat them, steal from them and verbally assault them.

Edited March 31, 2009 by notasexpat

[Sabum]

Sorry SBK I think the thing you said that set everyone off was:

"If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case . "

This is not putting words in your mouth and sounds like a complete denial that there is a problem. When you say that, it sounds like you are flippantly saying just about anything to refute the possibility that Thais could be racist towards Burmese and that you are discounting what he is saying and don't believe him. Inferring that everyone knows (Thais included!) that Thais and Burmese are so close they are pretty much the same and that the very idea that Thais could be racist towards their (practically) brothers is laughable. Which is so far from the truth you got everyone jumping on my other post to you, to the Thais it is like night and day, they don't feel they have any similarities. I apologise for that but wanted to clear up why they were doing that in reference to what you said.

[Samuian]

Sorry SBK I think the thing you said that set everyone off was:

"If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case . "

This is not putting words in your mouth and sounds like a complete denial that there is a problem. When you say that, it sounds like you are flippantly saying just about anything to refute the possibility that Thais could be racist towards Burmese and that you are discounting what he is saying and don't believe him. Inferring that everyone knows (Thais included!) that Thais and Burmese are so close they are pretty much the same and that the very idea that Thais could be racist towards their (practically) brothers is laughable. Which is so far from the truth you got everyone jumping on my other post to you, to the Thais it is like night and day, they don't feel they have any similarities. I apologise for that but wanted to clear up why they were doing that in reference to what you said.

Add Cambodians, Laotians and the various hilltribes, as well as other minorities and you are about as close to the reality as one can possible get!

I get it as a employee, on a day to day base, again and again, from anyone who feels fit or in power to let me feel that I don NOT belong to the bunch and I am NOT Burmese, nor a citizen of any neighboring country!

Edited March 31, 2009 by Samuian

[thailandlover]

Sorry SBK I think the thing you said that set everyone off was:

"If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case . "

This is not putting words in your mouth and sounds like a complete denial that there is a problem. When you say that, it sounds like you are flippantly saying just about anything to refute the possibility that Thais could be racist towards Burmese and that you are discounting what he is saying and don't believe him. Inferring that everyone knows (Thais included!) that Thais and Burmese are so close they are pretty much the same and that the very idea that Thais could be racist towards their (practically) brothers is laughable. Which is so far from the truth you got everyone jumping on my other post to you, to the Thais it is like night and day, they don't feel they have any similarities. I apologise for that but wanted to clear up why they were doing that in reference to what you said.

Actually, that isn't the way I read it. But from reading a post further down the question, it seems to me, is can it be called racism if they are from the same race, it seems to me that the real question she is perhaps posing is can it be that race is the only basis for the hatred. Perhaps that is the reasoning most people give but if there are no real physical differences ie appearance is very similar, far more so than Vietnamese or even Indonesians, then there must be something more to it than just "they are different"

I am afraid I cannot believe anyone who tells me that Burmese are a different race than Thais. I do read. I suggest you start with the book Deep Ancestry and study the mapping of human gene transference. This is not saying that people do not believe they are a different race but facts prove otherwise.

Also, since I did heed sbk's request to read her posts, I do see further on she makes the statement that she is "well aware of attitudes in Thailand" .

It seems to me that the original poster of this thread is more concerned with developing his own hatreds rather than doing something constructive to halt what appears to be verbal and physical abuse of his girlfriend.

[Sabum]

Ah so its the term racism that is in question because scientifically Thais and Burmese might share the same ancestry. We want to call it something else less "provocative" and tone it down.... sorry I don't buy it. If we don't call it racism then we do indeed make it sound nicer than it is when in fact it is pretty terrible. Doesnt matter the science, the Thais do see them as another race and treat them badly, I'd call it racism.

[Boo]

I'd call it racism.

So that means everyone else has to too then? Maybe thats why you have your knickers in a twist over her post

[caf]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

He is the one that told me they are essentially the same. personally, he thinks it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationalism.

that doesnt make it right though does it? thai xenophobia applies to farang, burmese, and many other non-thai.

[pappy1]

So in reality you are a very poor farang who's married a poorer asian and is now annoyed by the poor people surrounding him in his poor environment?

get a job and get yourself a house or real condo, move away from the poor side of this country?

u wont get ANY attitude if you stop hanging out in 1mil baht condo, guesthouses, 500k baht moo baan, sexpat pubs

They will still dislike her but they wont touch/talk to her.

Same same as indians in canada or american, people with money hate them but they just ignore them and move far away from them. In slums/redneck areas/texas they beat them, steal from them and verbally assault them.

Now this is really special, sounds like a steriod shooting, inferiority complex having tosser in all your posts, duplexes are so much nicer, <deleted>.

[MiG16]

is this thread now about debating terminologies of racism, discrimination etc?

or is it about discussing what SBK and her husband think of the attitudes of thai people towards Burmese?

I didnt think that was the purpose of the thread. so I suggest you all move on.

I can point out from what I read that she is very well aware of the attitudes, and has put forward some possible reasons/background to why that may be the case. others have also put forward other plausible reasons. ignorance, lack of understanding, generalisation by some, the spat of media stories, history, experience.....

in order to deal with something (if you wish to deal with it), my personal belief is you need to have some understanding of it...the cause so to speak. how do you tackle a problem without knowing its roots?

but OP, if you are saying you dont really care to hear about the why's, but simply want to have people share their views about whether thai people adopt extreme attitudes towards burmese?

I dont think any one member here can speak for the entire thai population.

so will this discussion really go anywhere?

you might want to rethink what you are really looking for from this discussion

I certainly need reminding on what this thread is about.......

[caf]

Racism, nationalism, it doesn't matter what you call it. When it comes to some Thais' attitudes about and actions towards Burmese it doesn't really matter, the end result is the same. I've never lived in Burma but it could very well be the same considering the history between the two nations. And, while to an ignorant Westerner they may seem "quite similar" don't try telling an ethnic Bamar or an ethnic Tai that they are basically the same as the other.

i have to dispel this myth that burmese people dislike thais, which is some times quoted as a defence for said thai attitudes. anyone who has spent any time in burma, including thais or any other people for that matter, will know that this is plainly not the case.

living in one of the most politically deprived countries in the world, being interested in leaving and inheriting a liberal education system from the british, and having a culturally/linguistically diverse population, means that they do not have the same hang-ups about ethnicity and nationalism that thais do.

you are making some very good - if embarassing - points. good luck to you and gf and thanks for raising this in the forum

[Sheryl]

It seems to me that the original poster of this thread is more concerned with developing his own hatreds rather than doing something constructive to halt what appears to be verbal and physical abuse of his girlfriend.

This I think hits the nail on the head exactly in terms of where this thread has gotten side-tracked.

Putting aside semantics, Burmese people (and Cambodian, and Lao) do encounter prejudicial attitudes and behaviors in Thailand at times from some people. And among the three nationalities, in my experience the Burmese get the worst of it, not from everyone, of course, and not all the time, but it happens.

It has also been my experience that the prevalence of such attitudes and behaviors varies by locality within the country. I've done some work with Burmese populations up in the area around Mae Sai for example and had the impression attitudes were much more welcoming there, perhaps because many of the locals have some Burmese ancestr, or perhaps because they are more likely to have traveled across the border to Burma for trade etc. I also find that in general laid back upcountry spots which do not have a lot of tourists or migrant workers tend to be nicer. I often have Cambodian guests (all legal) and they have always been very well treated in the rural area where I live, but there have been some unfortunate incidents in Bangkok.

The OP might do well to consider relocating and choosing future accomodations with some care.

Lastly, the fact that people are feeling free to disrespect his female companion like this suggests to me that they do not view him as someone to be respected. It may just be the particular places he goes/stays or it might be other factors like dress, manner etc. Not saying that it is, obviously I don't have anyway of knowing that, but if the OP wishes to make life easier for his gf he should take extra care to dress and act in a way that will be seen in this culture as thoroughly respectable as the protection this provides will extent to her as well.

In the case of paid accomodations, it takes a pretty low class place to disrespect its guests and it might well be wrth it to pay a bit more for a better standard of hotel/guest house.

[caf]

Sorry SBK I think the thing you said that set everyone off was:

"If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case . "

This is not putting words in your mouth and sounds like a complete denial that there is a problem. When you say that, it sounds like you are flippantly saying just about anything to refute the possibility that Thais could be racist towards Burmese and that you are discounting what he is saying and don't believe him. Inferring that everyone knows (Thais included!) that Thais and Burmese are so close they are pretty much the same and that the very idea that Thais could be racist towards their (practically) brothers is laughable. Which is so far from the truth you got everyone jumping on my other post to you, to the Thais it is like night and day, they don't feel they have any similarities. I apologise for that but wanted to clear up why they were doing that in reference to what you said.

Yes, I agree, unfortunate wording. Let's all get back to the topic without any further reference to it if everyone is big enough to do that.

[candoman89]

I love baiting Thais; you wanna see them get their knickers in a knot....... As a Canadian I am often identified as an American. I point out that I am Canadian and they just say...same same. Then I point out that they are really Burmese 'cause Thais came from Burmese blood (haven't a clue if its even remotely true) but you should see them get pi$$ed. If they argue that they aren't Burmese then I say.......eh same same....Burmese/Thai/Khmer/Chinese alai g'dai!!

[MiG16]

sanook

i think you forget that moderators are also members of this board

we can and still do express our opinions

to my knowledge, no one on this thread has been 'told off' by any moderator

however, i do see some moderators have expressed their views about the topic being discussed.

in my post, i did make some reference to people needing to move on and start discussing the topic - that was me as a moderator yes

but the rest of the post is simply stating my opinion on the matter. how does one discuss something without wanting to discuss the why of it?

Sheryl's post...I dont even detect any aspect of her capacity as moderator being reflected in that post.

before crying out bully, perhaps you need to learn to distinguish between moderating actions/comments vs an opinion by a member...who just happens to have a colour attached to a nic name

[Boo]

Dont worry Mig, I have removed that post anyway. Some members obviously feel they have to take a pot shot at moderators whenever they get the chance.

As mig has rightly said, up till now no moderation was done on this thread. Sanook2me post has now changed that.

If you have a problem with moderators then email support (at) thaivisa. com but don't use threads to air your issues.

[barrybike]

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

Indeed... what a poor insight... As admin he should know better. I'm speechless.

It's astonishing to see how easily people can drop total non sense, like this, with a doctoral tone...

you said as admin he should know better ......well its she not he in this case............admin or not dosent mean they are correct on everything..........

[thailandlover]

Its interesting that so much focus is on this, something that has clearly been misconstrued and twisted by posters and yet the OP's unwillingness to remove his girlfriend from an abusive situation is ignored.