this is my first post here and ive only just started reading the threads. but there seems to be a community of insightful women here, which is something i often lack in thailand. so, i want to share something that's been on my mind for a long time.

i find that the heavy focus on cultural differences between farang women and thai men ignores something that is even more relevant - class.

i happen to be in a community (greater bangkok) where i have a high social standing. my work is near my home and i also spend most of my time in the area with a big group including street vendors, thai teachers, immigrant workers. i am very keenly learning thai so i have made friends with all types of people. (i find the hiso thais are often too pretentious).

in the group i hang out with (based at a noodle stall) there is a peripheral member - an immigrant worker from laos. he works 12 hours a day at the opposite restaurant, and we have had the most incredible chemistry for months now. he is so cool and magnetic....i am completely in overpowering lust for him, and i know that we both feel a very strong connection. (in this time he is also the one person who my thai fails with, and i get tongue-tied). i feel that is extremely out of the norm for such a thing to happen (that is not a problem for me) but it creates a culture where it is hard to act on something that is so overpoweringly strong. anyway, we flirt and have an intimacy but rarely speak in the presence of other people because i think it makes him too nervous.

i want to make it clear that i have no class qualms whatsoever. but the community around us would make it immediately a spectacle, and i think this makes him very nervous, which is hard for me to overcome. (i also wonder how much i should take control, ie invite him over, i am nervous myself but that is for womanly reasons and because i lust after him so much).

all comments would be welcomed!

another issue: have you had the experience of having a partner earning a much lower wage? how does this work out with the farang female as high wage-earning and thai/asian boyfriend the low earner (ive seen it many time with male farang friends but rarely with women).

i find economic differences to be very present especially in the work-place, between thai and farang co-workers.

have you had the experience of having a partner earning a much lower wage? how does this work out with the farang female as high wage-earning and thai/asian boyfriend the low earner (ive seen it many time with male farang friends but rarely with women).

i've dated thai guys who earned a lot less than me. they also worked a lot more hours. i didn't care much about the class differences but the income differences really did create an imbalance in the relationship, which was a hurdle i was never really able to get over. the problem was that i often wanted to eat at more expensive places, take trips to various places, go out to clubs etc. and they couldn't afford to do any of those things. quite often i would pay just so we both could go and enjoy our time together, but eventually the guy started to resent the fact that i paid so often (it's sort of an affront to the male ego) and i started to get paranoid as to whether or not he wanted me for my financial worth more than anything else (doesn't help to read so many negative stories on thai visa). i would end up doing the expensive things without them, and then there was always that divide between us... i would still date another guy who was of lower economic status in the future, but i am not sure it would work out in the long term. i found it to be quite a big issue.

Of course each couple is different so you have to find what works for you. My man and I made a point of getting to know one another away from our social groups. We were just learning about each other, but already the stereotypes were in place. Most of his friends assumed he wanted my money, most of my friends thought I had the female version of 'Yellow Fever'. I have the sense it might be difficult to get to know someone well under the constant barrage of teasing and comments. Or maybe I'm just not thick-skinned enough Some of those friends have dropped by the wayside, unable to deal with the 'spectacle' of our relationship. Conversely we've made some great new friends along the way.

The money thing is also so individual. The value my husband brings to our relationship is not related to his income. Yes it helps that (a) I easily earn enough to support us comfortably; and ( his family do not make any financial demands. But he contributes so much in non-monetary ways. He is a kind and gentle person, has taken on my children as his own and happily does a lot of "dad stuff" with them. He is learning to cook, fixes stuff at home, washes dishes and attends work functions with me. He is making a big effort to improve his English and is learning a skill that - hopefully - will lead to a job in my country when we leave here. We laugh a lot and can't imagine life any other way. We are happy and our situation is right for us.

Skyhi I say be wary, as you should with any new relationship, but don't be afraid to try.

Funny GHS, when my husband started going out with me he was asked why he was seeing a farang, since he's not poor and doesn't need the money why else would he be interested?

Sad, innit?

Can't help you with the income or class disparity issues but I can tell you that only a very very few of the relationships that I know that have worked out have had such disparities. Almost all of the long-termers I know are people who are more equal in both social and economic status.

Almost all of the long-termers I know are people who are more equal in both social and economic status.

I agree with this. Mr Boo & I are from what would be the same social & economic backgrounds in each others countries. neither are rich, neither are poor but we are both from what would be classed as working class, with a hard work mentatility running through both families & a very strong moral basis too. There is no free ride, no one expects one & everyone is expected to pull their weight. Anyone that isn't is given something to do, no matter they want to or not

I earn more than him in the UK & he earned more than me in Thailand. He nor I find that a problem here (UK) as he contributes equally in our day to day expenses as well as supporting his mum & aunts in Thailand too. What is left over is his & he doesn't expect me to foot the bill for his ebay addiction habit & so manages his money as he sees fit.

That said, when we first started out we kept things quiet for a few weeks as I had a very close nit group of friends (western & thai) & didn't want to have to answer questions or get their views on him until I had made up my own mind. Once we were sure we "came out" & some were shocked, I got some silly comments from others & most were not surprised & happy for us.

I would go slow & take the usual precautions but if you do wish to see where the relationship might go then do so away from the group.

I have no experience to offer you advice from but.... life is too short to worry so much, if you really like this guy you should just go for it. As a man I would just ask for a number and ask if they want to go see a movie... no idea what a woman should do. The only thing I would warn you about is because you can't communicate with him as well as others he might seem more interesting or mysterious than he really is. The money thing is a problem but I would just do what makes you happy and find out if things can grow with this person regardless of the different social and financial standings.

actually i come from upper middle class but liberal in action and words family; but have spent the majority of my adult life as a kibbutznik so lack of finances is certainly not a problem.. we have the reverse problem- i dont make money but work hard, the kibbutz provides a large proportion of 'needs' but not 'wants', anon thinks its too close to communism and prefers to see a paycheck at the end of the month even though he is a labourer i.e. non professional work ... but my education helps me understand his culture shock and takes in to acount his lack of education. what he lacks in education (formal) he has from life experience. he is hot tempered and impulsive, i am cold tempered and logical. we are yin and yang.

bina

israel

I have to echo what sbk and Boo have said, my observation as well although I would add that education (in the broadest sense of the word -- i.e. both formal and self-acquired) seems to me to be the most important underlying factor in the problems that occur in couples where there is a large class/economic difference, it's not the money or social status per se.

What is this man's educational background? (Can't judge much by his present employment since as a migrant from Laos, even if well educated his options would be limited, among immigrants one does sometimes find well educated people doing unskilled work). How well read/well informed is he? These things dont count for much when it comes to initial physical attraction but matter a lot in a long term relationship.

A few other cautions:

- The sheer intensity of your attraction by definition makes this an infatuation, there are always large elements of projection (seeing what you want to see/desire to see, regardless of whether it is really there) in the initial phases of these types of things. It's natural but do keep that in mind and remembeer that you don't, as yet, really know this person and that what is making your heart pound is an image that may or may not match well with the underlying reality. This is what happens wherever and whenever people initially fall in love, but the chance of a real mis-match between image and reality is greater when the person is from another culture.

- As a Lao immigrant he is in a disadvanatged and vulnerable position from many angles. Marriage to a western woman could offer a way out or at least a way to greatly improve what is almost certainly a very difficult situation. I am not suggesting that is the reason for his interest in you, only cautioning you not to get his hopes up in that respect until and unless you are sure of things. I realize you are far from the point of thinking marriage, but men in this part if the world tend to make that mental leap with amazing speed, long before you'd expect them too. And both men and women from this part of the world take affairs of the heart very deeply and do not handle broken hearts well (understatement). So take care and be sure to be explicit with him about the parameters of the relationship, your feelings etc if you do decide to move foward.

Now given how you feel i suspect that you will indeed move forward. Hopefully keeping the various comments I and others have made in mind. So the question becomes: how?

It is tricky because on the one hand, you are going to have to get away from the larger social circle (and should indeed try to keep them unaware of the interest until/unless you are sure it is something that will last) but on the other hand any suggestion of getting together alone may give wrongs signals to him in terms of a permament commitment which you just don't yet know him well enough to make. "Respectable" couples in Laos don't spend time alone together unless they are practically engaged, if even then.

Do you have any friends outside of the local group who might be available to hangout somewhere low key as a threesome/ foursome? Coffee shop or park...just somewhere you'd be able to talk one on one and get to know each other better?

Be sure to tell him you want to take it slow and just be friends. If you don't he may read volumes into it.

Good luck!

This topic jumps out at me, for a whole bunch of reasons.

I know everyone's experiences are different and relationships and connections are different - blah blah blah - but...

My husband is from a very different place than I am, both economically as well as educationally.

I was really really attracted to him when I met him. He was fit and really good looking. Sexy. And when we started getting to know each other, he could do so many amazing things. He could make stuff and fix stuff and build stuff and cook stuff and kill stuff and eat stuff- all kinds of things I'd never seen before.

I was enthralled, enchanted, bewitched. He was so exotic. So different from anyone I'd ever met. He introduced me to so many interesting people and customs and things I'd never have had access to otherwise.

But after the exotic becomes everyday, it's not so enchanting anymore. At first it was "wow! snake! can i try?" but now it's "if you get snake scales and blood everywhere you'll be on your hands and knees scrubbing the floor!"

We still have a great time together. He makes me laugh. He's a great dad. He's a fantastic cook. I know he brings things to our relationship that cannot be given financial worth.

BUT, and this is a big but... if I were to turn back the clock and do it again I honestly don't think I would have chosen to allow this relationship to end up where it has, even though we have two beautiful children together. We were quite young when we met (25 and 23) and my priorities have changed a lot in the last 10 years.

I don't want to warn you off anything - it's not like you're marrying the guy anyway, and besides, as Sheryl said, I don't think anything anyone says can or will make up your mind for you.

Just wanted to share.

But please remember if you start something with this guy and it doesn't go farther than a fling, you get to move on - he has to stay and endure the gossip, stares and told you so's from the people who he works and socializes with.

Discretion is key.

Good luck. New relationships are always exciting. It's hard to not get caught up in just feeling the feelings and riding that endorphin wave...

Cheers,

tt

Excellent posts from both Sheryl and Too True.

Its interesting you point out your youth, tt. I was 23 and my husband 21 when we met and married. Celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary this year. Ups, downs and in betweens but he is still the kind, decent and honest guy I married 20 years ago. But, I also married a man with education, social standing and well, yes, money. We have things in common, we share the same values, those of the importance of education, hard work, honesty, and open mindedness towards those around us. He is educated but he is also self-educated, likes to read, check out the news on the internet, ok, he's a rabid fisherman too, but well, we've all got our hobbies right?

But the main thing is, what we have in common is more than what we have different. Key things, sure he's a country boy and I like the city, sure he fishes and you couldn't pay me to get in the boat. But our core values are shared.

As for Sheryl's point

I realize you are far from the point of thinking marriage, but men in this part if the world tend to make that mental leap with amazing speed, long before you'd expect them too.

Well, my husband asked me to marry him after 4 months of serious dating (ie together all day). We married after 9 months.

And too true makes a point that many foreigners living in Thailand seem to fail to grasp. By our nature we tend to be transitory. So, its difficult to realize that while we may be concerned about the here and now, its the person whose home this really is who is the one who has to deal with the after effects should we choose to move on.

Although hubby and I appear very different on the surface (especially with our different income levels), our family and educational backgrounds are similar. Neither of us finished high school, we both come from tight-knit, poor farming families and have each endured our share of hardship. Both of us escaped the land and moved to the city to work in minimum wage jobs. I've worked my way up the corporate heirarchy a bit. Hubby hasn't. People see us and automatically think our relationship can't survive. The reality is that I have more 'life experiences' in common with him than with most of my fellow expats. Sometimes people focus too much on differences and not enough on similarities.

Edited April 2, 200917 yr by Goinghomesoon

Totally right GHS

Sometimes people focus too much on differences and not enough on similarities.

The way both me & Mr Boo were raised is so similar it's amazing, silly things even like we watched the same tv shows growing up (both children of the late 70' & 80's) our musical tastes are similar although I will acknowledge music made after the early 90's & he wont his dad went to Saudi & worked to send money to support the family & he was raised by women, particularly his grandmum, my dad left when I was 8 & didn't support us so mum worked 4 jobs all through my childhood so my nan had to take care of us. Our parents are of the same generation & I am the same age as his sister & he is the same age as my older sister. One the surface we look, sound & act quite different but there are so many more similarities than difference.

I'm very grateful to all of you for your input, you have truly alerted me to some dimensions i've been ignoring (repressing?!). sheryl, tootrue, i am overcome by the quality of your advice!

yes, perhaps this is a moral issue. there is a great possibility of me causing lasting damage, and at the very minimum i can't open him up to that risk by openly pursuing him.

infatuation, of course. (ive been convincing myself for some time that its a case of 'innate personality bonding' or something!) its strange how thai men turn me back into a 13 year old child, i cannot remember acting like this since about a boy i saw at the bus stop everyday! this is especially the case when they cannot speak much english. (everyone so coy, whispering with their friends, working up the guts to seduce pidgin-style).

its horrible how the society between thais can dominate our experience. i can never forget, when in public with thai friends (even really close ones), how other thais are looking at them, how they are aware of the glances....do you know what i mean? this has been acknowledged to me by several thai people.

this is also the thing that gives some farang a rather twisted ego. i mean that experience of being looked at all the time is pretty influential to a person's pscyhe....

Hello Skyhi,

OK so we're both newbies. I've been reading ThaiVisa for about eight months and just registered last week. Now your post has inspired me to write!

I'm kind of sad that after what everyone had to say, it sounds like you decided not to try. I am one of those crazy people that listens to my intuition no matter how ridiculous it might sound to my brain at the time. It's worked out for me so far...

So here's my take. You say you 'know you both feel a very strong connection'. Why try to ignore that based on the *possibility* of a negative outcome?

For sure, you don't know him much yet. Yet you say you 'rarely speak in the presense of other people because I think it makes him too nervous.' Could it be that he thinks it makes *you* nervous?

Here is where I'm coming from. Except for my high school sweetheart (when both of us only had entry-level jobs), all my relationships have been with men who earned a lot less money than me. I guess it's worked for me because I value the relationship more than money, I don't mind spending money if they don't have it, and I don't make a big deal out of it. I am committed to them for who they *are*, not how much money they have.

I met my boyfriend a year ago. Never even dated an asian guy before, not love at first sight. Rather it was just as you say, I felt a very strong connection to him. Every day we spent together, it got stronger. No logical explanation to it, but no denying it. No, it definitely hasn't been easy. Would I go back and change it? Not for all the money in the world.

As for people staring, yes it's annoying. But that just is what it is. You can't control what others think or do, but none of those people have any power over what *you* think or do unless you allow it. My boyfriend actually made up a silly little game for us to play (when we catch someone staring at us) that takes the edge off for us.

I like what Boo said, 'not having to answer questions or get opinions until you've made up your own mind first'. See if you can get off on some neutral turf somewhere and get to know each other slowly. Even if you only become friends, would that be worth it?

Anyway, my post will probably only cause more confusion in your life. But, you did say all comments were welcome! I think you should get to know him better. Of all the men in the world, why are you attracted to this one? There must be a reason. Hopefully not only to get people posting on ThaiVisa.

Chok dee!

Funny GHS, when my husband started going out with me he was asked why he was seeing a farang, since he's not poor and doesn't need the money why else would he be interested?

Sad, innit?

Can't help you with the income or class disparity issues but I can tell you that only a very very few of the relationships that I know that have worked out have had such disparities. Almost all of the long-termers I know are people who are more equal in both social and economic status.

Agree with SBK 100%

Well I suppose according to this thread my husband and I are doomed for failure.

My husband left school at 11 years old. He was very poor growing up. He does not come from a poor village, in fact most of his family are middle class but the death of his father when he was 2 put his mother and 6 siblings in a tight spot.

I am from a middle class family and grew up in a middle to upper class area. I am currently studying a masters degree.

We are opposite in so many ways. I am the oldest of four, he is the youngest of 6. I am jai ron he is jai yen yen. My first degree is in feminist theory and he comes from a very traditional, old fashioned world. I suffered from substance abuse issues many moons ago. He has not only never touched a drug but is even allergic to the smell of pot. He hates spending money and I love to shop, eat well etc.

However when it comes to our core values and principals we are totally the same in how we feel about love, respect, family and all the important stuff. I dont know this because of what he says but how he acts.

I cannot say it has been easy, in fact at times I felt like we were the only couple on the planet having to work as hard as we had to get to where we are now. We had a lot of problems at the beginning (starters we didnt speak the same language) but we are now at a point where we can look back on all of that and say that every minute of termoil was worth it.

We have both made serious life changes and compromises to stay together. I live in his home town which is small and isolating and full on old fashioned Thai world. He returned to school. He does not lead the life that all the other men in his village do and how he pictured his life would always be until he met me. He has never pressured me to have a child even though it has gotten to the point that people are asking if he is impotent! And now we are thinking about moving to Canada for a couple of years. This is something he has never wanted to do but will do it because he knows it is the next step for us.

I do not want to leave Thailand, I love it here, I love where I live and I love his family and I know it will put our relationship to the ultimate test. However one of the definite upsides to leaving Thailand is I know that I will be able to breath better knowing that people are not constantly expecting us to fail b/c of where we come from, because all of the odds are stacked against us and because, well lets face it, most people in our position do not make it.

I am not agruing with the other posts, as I think you all make good points, and I don't believe in undermining other women's experiences, as they are all just as valid as mine. And to be honest I usually steer clear of the arguments that take place in this forum regarding Thai men.

Perhaps this is a rant of sorts, or perhaps in another 10 years I can bring this post back to life and tell you all that you were right. And then again maybe I will tell you that there are always exceptions.

Edited April 5, 200917 yr by meme

Didn't say all meme, just most

And lets be honest here, shared economic and social class does not always mean shared values.

Also, fact is, esp given the high divorce rate we all see around us, many people aren't willing to do the hard work it takes to make a relationship work. They love it when its easy but when it gets hard and compromises have to be made, and work has to be done, many are unwilling to do what it takes to make the relationship work. Sometimes its one partner, often its both.

You are both to be commended for having the commitment to working through your problems.

Didn't say all meme, just most

And lets be honest here, shared economic and social class does not always mean shared values.

Also, fact is, esp given the high divorce rate we all see around us, many people aren't willing to do the hard work it takes to make a relationship work. They love it when its easy but when it gets hard and compromises have to be made, and work has to be done, many are unwilling to do what it takes to make the relationship work. Sometimes its one partner, often its both.

Thanks SBK. All the above are good points. And I know you didnt mean all. I just needed to voice my experience as it is opposite to the general direction of this thread.

Almost all of the long-termers I know are people who are more equal in both social and economic status.

I agree with this. Mr Boo & I are from what would be the same social & economic backgrounds in each others countries. neither are rich, neither are poor but we are both from what would be classed as working class, with a hard work mentatility running through both families & a very strong moral basis too. There is no free ride, no one expects one & everyone is expected to pull their weight. Anyone that isn't is given something to do, no matter they want to or not

I earn more than him in the UK & he earned more than me in Thailand. He nor I find that a problem here (UK) as he contributes equally in our day to day expenses as well as supporting his mum & aunts in Thailand too. What is left over is his & he doesn't expect me to foot the bill for his ebay addiction habit & so manages his money as he sees fit.

That said, when we first started out we kept things quiet for a few weeks as I had a very close nit group of friends (western & thai) & didn't want to have to answer questions or get their views on him until I had made up my own mind. Once we were sure we "came out" & some were shocked, I got some silly comments from others & most were not surprised & happy for us.

I would go slow & take the usual precautions but if you do wish to see where the relationship might go then do so away from the group.

Boo,

very good points there.I have seen some experiences with farang men and thai ladies too,with mine being similar to yours,other than my gf doesnt send money home and i dont too.

Excellent posts from both Sheryl and Too True.

Its interesting you point out your youth, tt. I was 23 and my husband 21 when we met and married. Celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary this year. Ups, downs and in betweens but he is still the kind, decent and honest guy I married 20 years ago. But, I also married a man with education, social standing and well, yes, money. We have things in common, we share the same values, those of the importance of education, hard work, honesty, and open mindedness towards those around us. He is educated but he is also self-educated, likes to read, check out the news on the internet, ok, he's a rabid fisherman too, but well, we've all got our hobbies right?

But the main thing is, what we have in common is more than what we have different. Key things, sure he's a country boy and I like the city, sure he fishes and you couldn't pay me to get in the boat. But our core values are shared.

As for Sheryl's point

I realize you are far from the point of thinking marriage, but men in this part if the world tend to make that mental leap with amazing speed, long before you'd expect them too.

Well, my husband asked me to marry him after 4 months of serious dating (ie together all day). We married after 9 months.

And too true makes a point that many foreigners living in Thailand seem to fail to grasp. By our nature we tend to be transitory. So, its difficult to realize that while we may be concerned about the here and now, its the person whose home this really is who is the one who has to deal with the after effects should we choose to move on.

Based on my experiences and my friends,i would say that men do not jump into marriages quickly here in Thailand.Many of us have been married before and divorced,so why jump into the frying pan again.

Hello Skyhi,

OK so we're both newbies. I've been reading ThaiVisa for about eight months and just registered last week. Now your post has inspired me to write!

I'm kind of sad that after what everyone had to say, it sounds like you decided not to try. I am one of those crazy people that listens to my intuition no matter how ridiculous it might sound to my brain at the time. It's worked out for me so far...

So here's my take. You say you 'know you both feel a very strong connection'. Why try to ignore that based on the *possibility* of a negative outcome?

For sure, you don't know him much yet. Yet you say you 'rarely speak in the presense of other people because I think it makes him too nervous.' Could it be that he thinks it makes *you* nervous?

Dear Waatwang, thank you for your generous words. yes, i don't usually ignore my intuition and to do so is probably not healthy! the same evening i read your post, the man in question broke the habit and came to sit with me, even though i was with another farang. you can imagine how happy i was! yes probably i am the more nervous one overall, stuttering away in my bad thai!!

i want you to know that i have not given up, instead i am taking it slowly and seriously - i think my thai language is a priority now, so i can make it happen.

regarding the contributions here i want to say something. of course generalizations are impossible. also i do believe that we have soulmateS on the earth and it is unwise to ignore it when you come across one. sometimes our judgment is good, sometimes bad. but, its not just a question of the thai man and his community. the question is also - what kind of person is the farang?? we can only try to act with consideration and by our behaviour counterbalance the reactions we meet on the way. clarity and consideration, then...

actually, the difficulties of this situation pale in comparison to difficulties i've had with farang relationships in the past!

good luck to all

namaste

the same evening i read your post, the man in question broke the habit and came to sit with me, even though i was with another farang. you can imagine how happy i was!

Hi skyhi.

I havent replied to you before as I had nothing to add, but i have been following this thread. I really wish you both the best of luck. I hope it works out well. GOOD LUCK!

..oh, and if you can/feel like it. Please keep us posted. If it works out, i will be so happy for you both. If it doesnt, dont worry, it just wasnt meant to be. Whatever you decide, make sure it makes you happy.