Thai Bangkaew Dog

[ad61]

After loosing my three and half years old Golden Retriever to a heat stroke, I've decided to raise Thai Bangkaew dogs, thinking they will be less prone to hot weather related health problems. I've got a one and a half year old male since he was eight month old and recently aquired a 5 month old female. Both of them are very attached to all family members (wife and daugther) but seems quiet agressive with any body coming to visit us, is that a normal behavior? I've also noticed that, outside the house, when going for a walk, they seems to be a bit "wild', always on their guard, not letting any body coming to close; a big difference compared to my retriever.

All the web sites and forum related to this breed are in Thai language, therefore I will be very happy to find somebody with knowledge and experience to share. Thank you.

[billd766]

After loosing my three and half years old Golden Retriever to a heat stroke, I've decided to raise Thai Bangkaew dogs, thinking they will be less prone to hot weather related health problems. I've got a one and a half year old male since he was eight month old and recently aquired a 5 month old female. Both of them are very attached to all family members (wife and daugther) but seems quiet agressive with any body coming to visit us, is that a normal behavior? I've also noticed that, outside the house, when going for a walk, they seems to be a bit "wild', always on their guard, not letting any body coming to close; a big difference compared to my retriever.

All the web sites and forum related to this breed are in Thai language, therefore I will be very happy to find somebody with knowledge and experience to share. Thank you.

I also would like more information on the Bangkaew dogs.

I am returning to Thailand in a couple of months and was looking at getting a couple of Thai Ridgebacks but my wife is talking about the Bangkaew instead.

[Amsterdam]

After loosing my three and half years old Golden Retriever to a heat stroke, I've decided to raise Thai Bangkaew dogs, thinking they will be less prone to hot weather related health problems. I've got a one and a half year old male since he was eight month old and recently aquired a 5 month old female. Both of them are very attached to all family members (wife and daugther) but seems quiet agressive with any body coming to visit us, is that a normal behavior? I've also noticed that, outside the house, when going for a walk, they seems to be a bit "wild', always on their guard, not letting any body coming to close; a big difference compared to my retriever.

All the web sites and forum related to this breed are in Thai language, therefore I will be very happy to find somebody with knowledge and experience to share. Thank you.

I also would like more information on the Bangkaew dogs.

I am returning to Thailand in a couple of months and was looking at getting a couple of Thai Ridgebacks but my wife is talking about the Bangkaew instead.

I don't know this breed of dog but here is a website with details about the dog.

Your description of the Bangkaew temperament seems to be an accurate one

Hope it helps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Bangkaew_Dog

[coventry]

I had one. They're not dogs that are easily trained. You have to have a firm hand with them. I'd never have one again. I don't think they make good pets.

[ad61]

I do not agree with you Coventry, they do make great pets, maybe only with the family members as they tend to be relatively distant from any stranger and will not let anybody touch them.

They are always following me around the house and whenever I stop and/or sit, by me they will sit and wait to see what will be my next move. They are really attached to my wife and daughter too.

I've attached some pictures of both "Prikthai" the grey/white male and "Makham" the brown/white female.

[coventry]

Mine was a female. I had it spayed, but would it come back when called ? No.

It would go off and find an animal carcass, smellier the better, and roll in it until it was covered in snot & shit. Failing that, it would find cow shit and do the same. I also have 2 Golden Retrievers and a Golden Spanial who lived in fear of it. I had no choice but to give it away as I had to seek vetenary for one of my Retrievers because of it. I admit they're a nice looking dog, when cleaned and brushed, but that's about it, as far as I'm concerned.

[ad61]

You are right Coventry, if they snike away from the house compound, no need to try to call them back because they wont; they will come back by themselves when they will feal they had enough. For the smelly dead animal carcass and/or cow shit, I think all dogs love to roll themselves in it because my golden retriever was doing the same, he was even eating cow shit??!! beside that, they love to chase and catch all kind of critters, frogs, lizards, gecko and even snakes. It's funny to watch them trying to corner one of those, they really do a good team work and never let it escape.

[coventry]

The one I had would actually climb a metal gate to get out. One day I went out for a few hours only to return to find the thing stuck between 2 uprights and resting on a blunt decorative spike. It could have been there for at least 2 hours. Anyway I got it out only to find that the spike had given it a stomach hernia. From then on I had no option but to chain it up when going out.

[Nienke]

In the last couple of month I've had and still have several Ban Keaw's in boarding and training.

For sure there are many very sweet and nice Ban Keaw dogs around. Nonetheless the breed is known notoriously for its aggression issues (primarily fear aggression or dominance aggression towards other dogs and also towards people), its wariness of strangers, but also for its enormous faithfullness to its owners.

Bk's are quick learners with a very good memory and a mind of their own.

During the last few months I've had and still have several Ban Keaw's in boarding and training. All of them were/are dogs with a strong character. Now, of course, BK owners with submissive dogs are less likely to board their dog for training at a training school as submissive dogs in general are much easier to handle. So, at my training center I get to see mainly the more difficult ones. Besides the dogs in B&T I've also received several phonecalls of BK's owner who had aggression problems with their dog.

From the dogs in B&T some are (luckily) pups of 3 to 4 months of age. They exhibit behavior such as lots of jumping up and mouthing, with owners' arms full of scratches. Initially they all show fear behavior towards us, who are strangers, and to the other dogs (as most have been taken away from their mother and littermates too early and then raised alone or only with one or two other dogs) and will bite when we try to touch them (what we don't, naturally). As they are so young they adapt quickly and soon trust us. Then the fear behavior changes to one of showing dominance towards other dogs in the other kennels or to the more submissive ones in their own group. They do, however, quickly show submission towards the higher ranks in their group and towards us.

I've had several 4 months old pups showing dominance behavior towards other dogs and already started to lift their paws when peeing.

When these kind of pups do not receive intense socialization (with positive experiences) and immediately proper and consistent guidelines from their owners (which is NOT keeping them 'under control' with a stick) they will quickly gain all sorts of privileges and go up the hierarchical ladder when they age.

By the time they reach their puberties some (especially the males) will start with dominance aggression such as growling, stiffening up during handling, nipping and aggression towards other (male) dogs. These dogs are usually quite unruly with lots of jumping and nipping, pulling on the lead, not coming when called and only paying attention to their owners when it suits them, otherwise they completely ignore their owners and go their own way.

Most of the dominance aggression with biting starts at the age of around 1 1/2 years old, and that is the other group of BK's where BK owners asked for my help.

What many owners do not (want to) realize, unfortunately, is that this problem can only be solved with the full involvement of the owners. As it is much more that the owners have to change their interaction with their dog, than to change only the dog. In fact, changing the dog only without the owners changing does not work, and within the shortest time the dog will exhibit the same aggressive behavior as he did before the behavior modification therapy.

Therefore I agree with other posters that the Ban Keaw, although I do like the breed, it is not the kind of dog for everyone.

If you decide to go for one, because you know you (AND your family) can show sufficient authority (in a non-confrontational way) and you are willing to put lots of time and effort in the education, then please go to a breeder where you can see the mother and father dog, and where the pups are allowed to stay with the mother dog till at least the age of 7 weeks. (and I know that's pretty difficult to find).

When choosing the pup do not choose the one that comes forward, jumps all over you and pushes its sublings away. Take your time, and watch the pups play together. The big bully is not the one you would like as a new member of your family. Also the ones that cower are not the ones you want.

There is lots of info to find on the net on 'how to choose a puppy as your new pet'. Just do a google search.

Hope this helps a bit,

Nienke

[bob6023]

After loosing my three and half years old Golden Retriever to a heat stroke, I've decided to raise Thai Bangkaew dogs, thinking they will be less prone to hot weather related health problems. I've got a one and a half year old male since he was eight month old and recently aquired a 5 month old female. Both of them are very attached to all family members (wife and daugther) but seems quiet agressive with any body coming to visit us, is that a normal behavior? I've also noticed that, outside the house, when going for a walk, they seems to be a bit "wild', always on their guard, not letting any body coming to close; a big difference compared to my retriever.

All the web sites and forum related to this breed are in Thai language, therefore I will be very happy to find somebody with knowledge and experience to share. Thank you.

Hi There, I live in Phitsanulok Province where these dogs were bred by the monks there along the Nan river.

My Thai Bang Kaeow is now 3 years old. he is very attached to the wife's family and extended family. If he doesn't know some one he will challenge them. He is very aggressive when he is unfamiliar with someome. Especially protective when in my car, anyone comes near he goes ballistic.

About a year ago I was trying to introduce a falang friend to the dog, well he jumped up and bit this person on the ear, drawing blood, but not too bad as I was there and had him on a lead. But very, very fast.

After that I took him and had him nuetured, much calmer dog now, but I still have to watch him around any stranger. People come to work on my house or grounds I have to keep him chained. He stays out at night for protection likes to sleep in my air con room in day time. Very loving dog. To family

In the states I've always had GShepherds, they are easier to train. These dogs need a lot of work in my opinion. and love.Bob

[ad61]

Hello Nienke,

Thank you very much for your comments and description regarding the Bangkaew, in which I totaly reconize both of my dogs. I have some questions, at what age do they reach their puberty? For the moment, the female who is going to have 6 month old, is alway after the male (18 month) wanting to play, nibbing him incessantly until he show her that he has enough and start to nibb her maybe a little stronger than what she can stand and she stop for a while. In the future, which one will be the Alpha dog? is it always the male? because I have the impression that she is coming more and more dominant; for exemple, when eating, they both eat at the same time but in a different corner; the little female always quickly eat half of her portion first, then come to anoy the male, stilling part of his meal then goes back to finish her own. The male doesn't seems to care as he even not growl at her, but if he comes to close to her bowl, she will not accept it and immediatly start to growl. Can she became the Alpha dog?

Thank you

[elfe]

your dogs are very beautiful!! they look like a thai version of huskies.

i have no experience with this breed but it seems they will not give you any boredom

[Nienke]

I definitely second that. The dogs look gorgeous. But why do you allow them to sit on a higher place than you?

When dogs reach their puberties depends on the breed and on the individual. As a generalization at about 6 or 7 months at the earliest.

Female dogs can certainly become top-dog. I have often observed though, that although the female is often challenging the male, it is the male that is top-dog in the end. He just tolerates the female's 'stupid' behavior.

I have the feelng that with your dogs, the female is just testing her boundaries and your male plays the good-old uncle.

As for the food, it may very well be that the daily meals isn't that important for your male to protect. How is he when it is a delicious bone he's got or something else that he REALLY values and the female wants it? Is he still that tolerant then?

Food aggression doesn't necessarily has something to do with dominance. Even a lower rank can show food aggression to a higher rank and the higher rank will back off. It has to do with survival: you've got a piece of food and you better protect it from to others to be eaten or you end up with nothing and will starve. That's also the reason why dogs hardly chew, but gulp down big pieces of food as soon as it touches their mouthes.

[Arkady]

I have two female Bangkaews, aged 3 and 4, and one male Golden Retriever, aged 4. All three dogs have been fixed. The two Bangkaews are very different from the Golden Retriever. If we open the gate, the Bangkaews will run off into the village and it can sometimes be hard to catch them. The Retriever will just sit quietly looking at the open gate, if he's told to sit. We take the Bangkaews out for exercise on a leash but the Retriever can run by himself which is lucky because no one could keep up with him. The Bangkaews are very affectionate, even soppy, dogs with every one in the house and visitors they know well but are quite suspicious of strangers, particularly if several come at the same time. They will bark at them and not let any one get near them. One farang who came to a party got his hand bitten lightly because he tried to pat one of them on the head when she was chained up. She would normally back away and obviously felt cornered. Most people are smart enough to leave chained up dogs alone but farangs don't usually know what a Bangkaew is. They start barking when some one comes to the house before we hear any noise. One of them likes to play with balls and other toys and the Retriever and the other one is very aloof and hardly ever plays at all. The older Bangkaew female is rather dominant and used to get into fights with the Retriever. I was bitten once by her while stupidly trying to separate them and needed four stitches. I don't think she was aware who she had bitten in the heat of the fight and started cowering when she realized she had doen something wrong. The problem now is that when the younger Bangkaew got to about 18 months she started challenging the dominance of the older Bangkaew and they started having some nasty fights involving expensive trips to the animal hospital and stitches. For the last year we have kept them entirely separate and there have been no more fights. We have to let one in the house while the other is outside and then rotate them. They still growl at each other through the French windows, so we are sure that they still hate each other.

Our Retriever loves water and as a puppy used to jump into the laundry bowl when the maid was trying wash some clothes by hand. Now he jumps into our swimming pool at every opportunity. The Bangkaews can swim very well, if they have to, but hate getting wet. They just dip their front legs in the pool to cool off and drink the water - all the dogs drink out of the pool with no apparent ill effects. One of the Bangkaews can get aggressive if some one tries to touch her while she is eating or take away her toys. It seems to depend on who does it. Normally she will not behave like that with me. Sometimes she looks round to see who it is and, if it is me she does nothing but might growl at some one else. The other Bangkaew can sit up on her bum and beg, although we never trained her to do this.

Bangkaews are lovely dogs but, as Nienke says, they take quite a lot of handling and are not for everyone and are maybe not suitable if you have small children.

To Bob6023 I think you would be safer having your Bangkaew in the house at night. It is a simple job for a thief to poison a dog running around outside before he climbs the fence and come back a bit later. A dog barking inside a house is more of a deterent as the thief doesn't get the same chance to poison it at his liesure when he breaks into the house. Our fiercer Bangkaew sleeps in the maid's room which makes her feel safer. Outside maid's rooms are the weakest point in Thai houses.

[bob6023]

I have two female Bangkaews, aged 3 and 4, and one male Golden Retriever, aged 4. All three dogs have been fixed. The two Bangkaews are very different from the Golden Retriever. If we open the gate, the Bangkaews will run off into the village and it can sometimes be hard to catch them. The Retriever will just sit quietly looking at the open gate, if he's told to sit. We take the Bangkaews out for exercise on a leash but the Retriever can run by himself which is lucky because no one could keep up with him. The Bangkaews are very affectionate, even soppy, dogs with every one in the house and visitors they know well but are quite suspicious of strangers, particularly if several come at the same time. They will bark at them and not let any one get near them. One farang who came to a party got his hand bitten lightly because he tried to pat one of them on the head when she was chained up. She would normally back away and obviously felt cornered. Most people are smart enough to leave chained up dogs alone but farangs don't usually know what a Bangkaew is. They start barking when some one comes to the house before we hear any noise. One of them likes to play with balls and other toys and the Retriever and the other one is very aloof and hardly ever plays at all. The older Bangkaew female is rather dominant and used to get into fights with the Retriever. I was bitten once by her while stupidly trying to separate them and needed four stitches. I don't think she was aware who she had bitten in the heat of the fight and started cowering when she realized she had doen something wrong. The problem now is that when the younger Bangkaew got to about 18 months she started challenging the dominance of the older Bangkaew and they started having some nasty fights involving expensive trips to the animal hospital and stitches. For the last year we have kept them entirely separate and there have been no more fights. We have to let one in the house while the other is outside and then rotate them. They still growl at each other through the French windows, so we are sure that they still hate each other.

Our Retriever loves water and as a puppy used to jump into the laundry bowl when the maid was trying wash some clothes by hand. Now he jumps into our swimming pool at every opportunity. The Bangkaews can swim very well, if they have to, but hate getting wet. They just dip their front legs in the pool to cool off and drink the water - all the dogs drink out of the pool with no apparent ill effects. One of the Bangkaews can get aggressive if some one tries to touch her while she is eating or take away her toys. It seems to depend on who does it. Normally she will not behave like that with me. Sometimes she looks round to see who it is and, if it is me she does nothing but might growl at some one else. The other Bangkaew can sit up on her bum and beg, although we never trained her to do this.

Bangkaews are lovely dogs but, as Nienke says, they take quite a lot of handling and are not for everyone and are maybe not suitable if you have small children.

To Bob6023 I think you would be safer having your Bangkaew in the house at night. It is a simple job for a thief to poison a dog running around outside before he climbs the fence and come back a bit later. A dog barking inside a house is more of a deterent as the thief doesn't get the same chance to poison it at his liesure when he breaks into the house. Our fiercer Bangkaew sleeps in the maid's room which makes her feel safer. Outside maid's rooms are the weakest point in Thai houses.

You make a good point and I have considered it before. I still prefer him outside at night. He doesn't bark often and when he does I do go to investigate. He is a very quiet dog, unless he sees or hears someone coming close to our walls.

[ad61]

I definitely second that. The dogs look gorgeous. But why do you allow them to sit on a higher place than you?

When dogs reach their puberties depends on the breed and on the individual. As a generalization at about 6 or 7 months at the earliest.

Female dogs can certainly become top-dog. I have often observed though, that although the female is often challenging the male, it is the male that is top-dog in the end. He just tolerates the female's 'stupid' behavior.

I have the feelng that with your dogs, the female is just testing her boundaries and your male plays the good-old uncle.

As for the food, it may very well be that the daily meals isn't that important for your male to protect. How is he when it is a delicious bone he's got or something else that he REALLY values and the female wants it? Is he still that tolerant then?

Food aggression doesn't necessarily has something to do with dominance. Even a lower rank can show food aggression to a higher rank and the higher rank will back off. It has to do with survival: you've got a piece of food and you better protect it from to others to be eaten or you end up with nothing and will starve. That's also the reason why dogs hardly chew, but gulp down big pieces of food as soon as it touches their mouthes.

Both of them seems to enjoy watching what's happening around my house and as all the surrounding of it are full of plants, bushs and small trees, I suppose that they like to sit on higher grounds to be able to have a better view because I find them very often sitting on a high bench in front of the house main entrance door or on the garden table as in the pictures.

Like you said, the male is certainly playing the good-old uncle. Even when eating his daily whole raw chicken, the naughty female still try to steal some part of it, most of the time succesfully because of the male incredible tolerance??!!

[Gary A]

I only have experience with the one in our village. He is quite aggressive and refuses to listen to the lady who owns him. The dog is fearless and will fight with any other dog he sees regardless of how big the other dog is. I would certainly never own one.

[ad61]

To Bob6023 I think you would be safer having your Bangkaew in the house at night. It is a simple job for a thief to poison a dog running around outside before he climbs the fence and come back a bit later. A dog barking inside a house is more of a deterent as the thief doesn't get the same chance to poison it at his liesure when he breaks into the house. Our fiercer Bangkaew sleeps in the maid's room which makes her feel safer. Outside maid's rooms are the weakest point in Thai houses.

If you're afraid that somebody could poison your dog, here is a good trick to teach him not to accept food from a stranger; ask one of your neighbor or friend (must be somebody that your dog doesn't know and/or never seen) to come to your house gate and trow a piece of chicken previously rubbed with some pounded chilli bird at your dog and repeat it two or three days in a row, I assure you that he will never accept food from other peoples anymore.

[bina]

interesting point about sitting higher; canaan dogs (israeli pariah dogs) also really like to sit up on top of things to constantly scout the territory. they are know for sitting higher, including climbing on top of roof of dog house. ours liked to sit on hay bales, and at night were terrific guards.

i think, nienke, that primitive type dogs show that behavior more: primitive i mean pariah dogs or dogs that are behaviorly as they were, without having been 'sculpted' by humans for a specific behavior for intance: the behavior of being worked with, or wanting to please and intermingle with humans, or for hunting. the behavior of the bankeaow seems to match that of canaans and also lhasa apsos (an other primitive type dog)-- in other words, they stick with the pack (the family), aggress towards intruders, are not trainable in the way that most breeds that were bred to work with humans are, and maintain behaviors as sitting higher to purvey surroundings, pack behavior, they probably dig to give birth, throw up food for pups (something canaans do) ,

they tolerate humans as peripherial i.e. symbiotic connectin for food, pack association but thats it.

http://caninebreeds.bulldoginformation.com...ariah-dogs.html

this is a sort of article; there is actually a better one somewhere but i lost the link...

and a quote about canaani dogs but fits i think for here also:

No one should undertake the selection of a dog lightly, and to help those considering the breed, here is a list of positives and negatives about Canaan Dogs:

The pluses of Canaan Dogs are that they

are intelligent;

are versatile;

are agile and athletic;

have plenty of stamina yet require only moderate exercise;

are a very natural breed;

require little grooming;

are thrifty;

are healthy;

are long-lived;

are self-reliant yet affectionate;

are good with children when socialized with them;

are natural guardians without undue aggression;

are the dog of the Bible and Holy Land; the only Israeli breed;

are characters!

On the other hand, they

need an owner firmly in charge;

can be dog aggressive;

require extensive socialization to mitigate against their wariness of strangers;

are independent enough to require a fenced yard;

bark persistently when defending their property from real or imagined 'intruders';

shed;

oh and have we mentioned their digging?

The breed is generally not an ideal choice for first-time dog owners.

actually piqued my interest about hte bankeaow. i showed the site to anon. his comment: same same as a 'snow dog' (he meant huski). i tried to explain that it is an indigenous thai dog, he thinks im nuts. oh well... i think in my up coming visit i will photo dogs in the villages. i would love to do dna analysis also but no means and ways to do it...

too bad noone on thai visa is a nut case enough to do a project on village dogs, ban keaow and thai ridgebacks...

how bout u nienke?? it doesnt intrigue you?

bina

israel

[RoadRash]

If you're afraid that somebody could poison your dog, here is a good trick to teach him not to accept food from a stranger; ask one of your neighbor or friend (must be somebody that your dog doesn't know and/or never seen) to come to your house gate and trow a piece of chicken previously rubbed with some pounded chilli bird at your dog and repeat it two or three days in a row, I assure you that he will never accept food from other peoples anymore.

Good idea!!

Bangkeaws' are excellent guard dogs, probably one of the best.

But I wouldn't try to keep one as a family pet, not so much for any fear as to what they would do to a member of the family, but visitors beware. If a member of your family visit that the dog isn't familiar with then all hel_l could break loose.

Friend of mine had one, I've been a regular (2-3 times a week) visitor to his house, and thought I was accepted by his Bangkeaw. We were always careful, due to the rep. of these dogs. Was there for the birth of his son, and played with the boy every time I went round. No probs from the dog. One day the boy fell off his bike, (see where this is going yet). Keep in mind I've played with this kid since he was born, 2yrs old and falls of his bike what ya gonna do?? Yep, I bent over to pick him up, crying boy!! Got some lovely scars now, one on the inside of my right wrist, just missed the tendons, one on my forehead, missed the brain by miles and a great dig into the palm of my right hand.

Like I said, great guard dogs, but should be treated like a real working dog. When not working keep them caged, restrained or muzzled. Or, as far as I'm concerned all three!!

[Arkady]

Hopefully the devilled chicken trick will do the job to prevent them from being poisoned. I am wary of letting the dogs run around at night after hearing that my sister's beloved 12 year old dog was silently poisoned by thieves in Zimbabwe who came to steal parts from their car for the "steal to order" service they have in that sad country in the absence of any foreign exchange for imports.

Back on topic. The OP is correct in assuming that Bangkaews are more hardy in the Thai climate than Golden Retrievers. They normally only have to go the vet for vaccinations and treatment of wounds incurred in fights. (One had to have the stumps of two canines extracted, as they had broken off in fights, by the dentist whom she nipped with the rest of her teeth while having her mouth examined - who would want to be a dog dentist?!) Our Golden Retriever suffers a lot more from skin irritations and other ailments and I suspect that other farang breeds suffer similarly in the tropical climate.

My Bangkaews also love to sit up somewhere high where they can have a good view of their territory. I often worry they will break their legs one day jumping off these high perches.

[bob6023]

One day one of the wifes brothers came up from BKK. well this one didn't know she had BK. Anyway as Thais do he simply opened our gate and walked into our compound. I heard the dog barking I looked outside and saw that he had brother backed up aginst the wall. every time the guy tried to move left or right the dog countered him and forced him to stay. The brother looked petrified and started to pick up one of the digging to6ls for protection. I yelled and went out and retrieved the dog. Nobody hurt this time.

My wife had a sign made (In Thai) for the gate, says warning BK guard dog on duty. He will bite. People no longer just wander in.

Another thing my dog likes to sit on a table on the front porch. He can see everything. I go out sometimes late at night and he'll be there, just looking around.

I have trained this dog not to accept food thrown over the fence, easy.

[ajcnx]

After loosing my three and half years old Golden Retriever to a heat stroke, I've decided to raise Thai Bangkaew dogs, thinking they will be less prone to hot weather related health problems. I've got a one and a half year old male since he was eight month old and recently aquired a 5 month old female. Both of them are very attached to all family members (wife and daugther) but seems quiet agressive with any body coming to visit us, is that a normal behavior? I've also noticed that, outside the house, when going for a walk, they seems to be a bit "wild', always on their guard, not letting any body coming to close; a big difference compared to my retriever.

All the web sites and forum related to this breed are in Thai language, therefore I will be very happy to find somebody with knowledge and experience to share. Thank you.

I have three Bangkaew for the moment and have been raising them since five years. You are quite right that they are friendly to your family specially women and your children, anybody approching them who is unknown they become very aggressive and might attack them , I think that is good. They love to play water and dig holes in your garden. But if you try to teach them one thing in a two weeks they will be very good listener. Hot climate makes them lazy also as it does to us even, But being a thai dogs they survive it quiet good.

[ad61]

interesting point about sitting higher; canaan dogs (israeli pariah dogs) also really like to sit up on top of things to constantly scout the territory. they are know for sitting higher, including climbing on top of roof of dog house. ours liked to sit on hay bales, and at night were terrific guards.

i think, nienke, that primitive type dogs show that behavior more: primitive i mean pariah dogs or dogs that are behaviorly as they were, without having been 'sculpted' by humans for a specific behavior for intance: the behavior of being worked with, or wanting to please and intermingle with humans, or for hunting. the behavior of the bankeaow seems to match that of canaans and also lhasa apsos (an other primitive type dog)-- in other words, they stick with the pack (the family), aggress towards intruders, are not trainable in the way that most breeds that were bred to work with humans are, and maintain behaviors as sitting higher to purvey surroundings, pack behavior, they probably dig to give birth, throw up food for pups (something canaans do) ,

they tolerate humans as peripherial i.e. symbiotic connectin for food, pack association but thats it.

http://caninebreeds.bulldoginformation.com...ariah-dogs.html

this is a sort of article; there is actually a better one somewhere but i lost the link...

and a quote about canaani dogs but fits i think for here also:

No one should undertake the selection of a dog lightly, and to help those considering the breed, here is a list of positives and negatives about Canaan Dogs:

The pluses of Canaan Dogs are that they

are intelligent;

are versatile;

are agile and athletic;

have plenty of stamina yet require only moderate exercise;

are a very natural breed;

require little grooming;

are thrifty;

are healthy;

are long-lived;

are self-reliant yet affectionate;

are good with children when socialized with them;

are natural guardians without undue aggression;

are the dog of the Bible and Holy Land; the only Israeli breed;

are characters!

On the other hand, they

need an owner firmly in charge;

can be dog aggressive;

require extensive socialization to mitigate against their wariness of strangers;

are independent enough to require a fenced yard;

bark persistently when defending their property from real or imagined 'intruders';

shed;

oh and have we mentioned their digging?

The breed is generally not an ideal choice for first-time dog owners.

actually piqued my interest about hte bankeaow. i showed the site to anon. his comment: same same as a 'snow dog' (he meant huski). i tried to explain that it is an indigenous thai dog, he thinks im nuts. oh well... i think in my up coming visit i will photo dogs in the villages. i would love to do dna analysis also but no means and ways to do it...

too bad noone on thai visa is a nut case enough to do a project on village dogs, ban keaow and thai ridgebacks...

how bout u nienke?? it doesnt intrigue you?

bina

israel

hello Bina, thank you for sharing with us this very interesting article; if you remember the one you lost the link, please post it here as i would love to read it.

My Bangkaews fit perfectly with the description and seems to share all the common charasteristics of a "primitive" dogs. They sometimes have strange behaviors like digging a hole in the garden to sleep at night or start to howl like a wolf or a coyotte in the middle of the night with no apparent reason, they are so fascinating.

[billd766]

We have 10 rai of land and most of the fences are non existant. Having read the thread when it comes up I suspect that the Bangkaew dog would not be a good idea for us if they wander off all the time though I am attracted to the fact that they are loyal to the family and unfriendly towards strangers.

What I am looking for is a couple of dogs who are good guard dogs, loyal to the family but don't have a tendency to wander off when the fancy takes them.

Does anyone have any idea of a breed which fits the bill?

[bina]

females of a large variety of breeds, including small dogs, stay closer to home and in my personal experience, guard better than males which have extended territory and are more likely to be aggressive towards otehr males.

any well trained dog of any size is a good guard dog . a guard dog: barks to warn of approaching intruders. differentiates between intruders and 'family/friends/children'. is not a 'scaredy cat but has self confidence, therefore is not fear aggressive. has a 'want to please the owner' personality. while canaan and bangkeow and several others are good guard dogs , they are difficult to work with, and couldnt care less about owners in their rank/pack positions. they are independant working dogs so work well for specific missions or for defined territory like a stable, or a farm area. boxers, shepherds of varying sorts, even a well trained, socialized mix breed can be a guard dog. retrievers probably dont fit the bill. my lhasas are very good, not noisy, bark only on hearing strange sounds, relax once the 'intruder' is accepted by one of us (my foofoo's aggression has been reduced almost 90% and is now only directed towards very specific types of intruders- if anyone remembers my aggression biting/fear biting posts)...

a pair of neutered mixed breeds of thai village dog mix might be good: hardy, used to the environment, being mixed with something means that their independence drive has been 'softened' a bit, medium sized, and male/female or two females means that they work better at guarding as one backs up the other. and u are giving a home to two dogs that might not have a home otherwise. they also will have less genetic problems than a purebred, cheaper to find. on the other hand, purebreds trained for the purpose are also a good choice as u know exactly what to expect as far as behavior is concerned.

bina

israel

[billd766]

females of a large variety of breeds, including small dogs, stay closer to home and in my personal experience, guard better than males which have extended territory and are more likely to be aggressive towards otehr males.

any well trained dog of any size is a good guard dog . a guard dog: barks to warn of approaching intruders. differentiates between intruders and 'family/friends/children'. is not a 'scaredy cat but has self confidence, therefore is not fear aggressive. has a 'want to please the owner' personality. while canaan and bangkeow and several others are good guard dogs , they are difficult to work with, and couldnt care less about owners in their rank/pack positions. they are independant working dogs so work well for specific missions or for defined territory like a stable, or a farm area. boxers, shepherds of varying sorts, even a well trained, socialized mix breed can be a guard dog. retrievers probably dont fit the bill. my lhasas are very good, not noisy, bark only on hearing strange sounds, relax once the 'intruder' is accepted by one of us (my foofoo's aggression has been reduced almost 90% and is now only directed towards very specific types of intruders- if anyone remembers my aggression biting/fear biting posts)...

a pair of neutered mixed breeds of thai village dog mix might be good: hardy, used to the environment, being mixed with something means that their independence drive has been 'softened' a bit, medium sized, and male/female or two females means that they work better at guarding as one backs up the other. and u are giving a home to two dogs that might not have a home otherwise. they also will have less genetic problems than a purebred, cheaper to find. on the other hand, purebreds trained for the purpose are also a good choice as u know exactly what to expect as far as behavior is concerned.

bina

israel

We are down to one dog now which is mixed breed and the 3rd generation of the original 3 dogs we got from the temple back in 2003. He has 3 good legs and one which is tucked up and he has been like that since he was born. We originally had 2 dogs and a bitch and over the years they bred, and at one point we had about 15 and gave a few away and a lot seem to headbut cars on the road which was not the brightest thing to do.

We have 10 rai and over the years the fencing has been broken in places and the front gate is only closed at night (no farang ghetto up here in the country) so the dogs can roam free but mostly stay around the house. They did defend our territory and the one next door from the dogs a couple of places further down but they have always been outside dogs and never been allowed inside any of the houses from the beginning.

I have been offshore for about a year and when I come home finally next month I will have more time to spend with the dogs and perhaps try to train them to be guard dogs rather than lying around sleeping day and night.

[Steve2UK]

My 2-year old bitch "River" is only 50% Bangkaew (according to her previous owners), so perhaps that must qualify my views - but then experiences will also vary from example to example whether pure-bred or not.

I found the wikipaedia entry very apt to describe mine: "Thai Bangkaew Dogs are alert and watchful, protective of home and family. Bangkaew are devoted to their masters but can be aloof with strangers. Agile and active, they are strong swimmers and voracious diggers. They are highly intelligent but can be stubborn and benefit from training. Positive reinforcement methods work best with this breed. It has been said that these dogs are mixed from a wolf, a fox and a normal house dog or a lab".

"Aloof with strangers" seems right - as in suspicious. But, as soon as she sees that I welcome them, she switches to being just inquisitive, wants to follow us around and soon relaxes with them. She has only been aggressive/upset with one woman who came to the house; frankly, this lady's fear of dogs and lack of understanding as to how to approach them was very clear. As I say, it's the only time that happened.

I found some of the earlier comments to be somewhat too negative - going by my experience. I certainly agree that they're not a pushover to train and it does seem best to spread the lessons over a period. "River" is certainly a smart dog, very playful and needs to know who's boss. No children here - and I'm inclined to agree that Bangkaews are not the most obvious choice if there were.

[bergen]

We have 2 Thai Bangkaew dogs and they are great guard dogs, and very devoted to the family.

They are "strong will" dogs and needs a firm hand/experienced owner - if not they will basically do what they want.

They don't run away, but often check our farm entrance to make sure there are no intruders (dogs) nearby. However they're always back within a minute (or so)

Both dogs "talks" to the wife and me with wolf like howls.

The male TBk wanted to challenge our Mastiff dog, which didn't bother for a while, but one day had enough and knocked him over with his front paw, stood over him and told him to behave!

Since then we've all been a happy family!

Our dogs make sure nobody enters our privat house area, unless we invite them in,............

and that's the way we want it.

Our 2 Bangkaews are named Black & White, and below are a few pics....................

[billd766]

Hi Bergen

Where did you get your Bangkaew dogs from?