Central Bangkok A War Zone

[MJo]

have any of you bangkok residents being going outside and watching what is going on? if anyone has been taking some pics it would be great to see?

I drive thru the town and back this morning between 7am and 8am. Absolutely nothing going on, traffic very light and up from expressway it looked very quiet. No gunshots, no smoke from burning tires etc etc. Victory monument exit on Chaeng Wattana expressway was still closed by red cones though and there was one towtruck parked in the side of the road but no police no army to be seen. Understood from local news that the protesters pulled / were pushed back to government house last night.

[johnefallis]

The end of the all-too-messy demonstration is near.

Message from Bangkokians to Red Shirts: Go home.

And then what? Thaksin is not about to give up his goal of returning as the conquering hero to the adulation of his supporters to wreak his terrible revenge on those perceived to have acted against him. He would rather see Thailand slide back into the morass of poverty and tribalism than back off and let things be.

However the genie is out of the bottle and they've thrown away the stopper. If the reds win then democracy in Thailand is a dead issue, Thaksin will return and resume his rape and pillage of the country and it's resources. He will rewrite the constitution and laws to suit him and allow him to become president in perpetuity, supreme emperor, master of all. If the reds are driven out of Bangkok they will continue to be a nuisance force disrupting Thai life as and when they feel like it and it won't be long before they cotton on to the value of targetting tourists and foreign interests within the Kingdom.

I wrote on another thread that maybe the way forward is to split the country into three. The Democratic Republic of Thailand under emperor Thaksin occupying the northeast, The Kingdom of Siam under the constitutional Monarchy in the center and northern south and the Caliphate of Pattani under Sharia law and the Immams in the deep south.

This was a tongue in cheek suggestion but maybe it might prove more attractive in light of recent events.

Sweet. Makes more sense then most politics, etc. in Thailand. Therefore, I doubt it would work, it's just to easy, too simple. Can't stop thinking about the idea though, really really ponderous.

[MJo]

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

[wrecker]

Lots of crocodile tears. Not nice from the reds not nice from the yellows, not nice from the blues. But in the end we deal with a deputy PM who is responsible for national security and who failed the Nation by not having his affairs in order. Let's see if he is man enough to tell the Nation that he has failed and is part of this mess too and therefore he will go.

Regarding the victims, I would not be surprised if many more have died indeed with so much ammunition. Any government has the right to end lawlessness, but the problem is that this government came to power due to the lawlessness incited by others who got even rewarded with a cabinet post. I am afraid that this mess will repeat itself over and over again in the next few years, till a real compromise has worked out. Still I see comments that the rural poor are too stupid to understand politics, these statement is even repeated by foreigners who have no clue who have been informed in the bars of BKK. But let's see it is a great time to sent red shirt leaders together with the yellow shirt leaders to jail, maybe they learn to work out things in the next ten years together.

[khunjamespittman]

Are the Reds paid 500B a day to demonstrate? Here Thaksin makes it clear

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/n...7&cateid=13

Wow, Thaksin makes it VERY clear. So true and >>> "Ooops big time Grandpa" --- what a blooper!!!

Obviously an accidental slip, but it could have been twice as embarrassing for him because >>>> in some cases according to some Bkk taxi drivers yesterday, the going rate is 1000B a day, and same with other posts we have read.

Maybe many are getting double pay by "lining up" (Thaksin's words) --- twice

Oh well; Business is business.

Overall, how sad and embarrassing for Thailand; such lovely gentle people, mostly.

May there be peace again in Thailand and to revert back to the "Land Of Smiles".

Everyone on here seems to know the going price that is supposedly being paid to demonstrators. We all know that is against the law. I challenge anyone, Red, Yellow, or Blue who has irrefutable evidence that they were paid to go to the nearest police station and turn themselves in, post their evidence to the magistrate and have the magistrate issue arrest warrants for these people. If they exist they belong in jail.

It does no good to make or repeat unfounded gossip and accusations. Stop it you kids. If I were a magistrate I would charge everyone doing with incitement of rioting. You have earned it.

[farangconnection]

So what happens now? The Prime Minister gets booted out, a new Red Shirt Prime Minister is appointed, and the Red Shirts go home............................................................................

.................to allow the Yellow shirts to take over the airport again and stay there until the new Prime Minister himself is booted out. How long before a bright spark comes up with the idea to take over something unless all the Farangs are booted out. Whoops, shouldn't have put that idea forward.

[lordsux]

Calling it a war zone is pushing the limits ... typical protest site is all it is

Well, to me it looked far from being a typical protest site. A 'war zone' is exactly how I would have described the scene outside my building yesterday and I'm sure others that were in the area would agree. Gunfire, explosions, fires, smoke, burning vehicles in the street, including the LPG threats, army, police and demonstrators.

Dunno where you come from but surely your 'typical protests' don't have the above ingredients do they?

Sure the headline 'war zone' is a bit sensationalist, but nonetheless an accurate description of some Bangkok streets yesterday.

[midas]

Jonathan Head was just on BBC world that he was giving the impression

that there are only a small number protesters left and that they cannot

possibly win. Is it now effectively over?

[meelousee]

Some are asking WHY?

I don't have the answer but I can say that the rural poor want the elite out and new elections. Which will produce more of the same kind of politicians they have now.

The story is "same soup different bowel"

Taksin did unite the warring parties under TRT and gave interest free loans, lowered prices of fertilizer and seed and guaranteed loans to the farmers so they would not have to resort to pawing their land and eventually loosing it to the elite that controlled farm commodity prices.

Easy buy for him and he did not have to spend his money!

Then the Taksin family felt themselves above the law. We all know the rest of that story.

So my only answer would be

"If money be not your servant, it will be your master. The covetous man cannot so properly be said to possess wealth, as that may be said to possess him. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Money corrupts and secret money corrupts absolutely.

Sorry I forget who made these quotes but they seem to fit.

I will start a new movement the "Red flip flops" I just bought my pair

I would argue that what the "rural poor" want is a better life for themselves and their kids.

In all the debate - especially coming from the red side - I hardly see any mention of anything except what the UDD/Thakisn call "democracy"

Why don't the reds talk about improving the living standards of poor Thais ?

Simple.

They don't have any policies.

Well, maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's not what geniuses like Jakrapob talk about when they are interviewed in English. He still goes on in his shrill way, about "democracy", LM and so on. But I never hear him say, the reason he is in this, is to improve the lives of the poor rural Thais. Nor, for that matter, do I hear such utterances from the 3 wise monkeys or any of the others.

Perhaps they do mention these things at the rallies?

If so, their PR machine needs an overhall.

Who are the red shirts? They are supposedly the rural poor being led my uncaring politico's with an 'agenda'

The way toxin got his power was "improving the living standards of poor Thais" and then using them as pawns.

[Col98]

Anyone have any idea what the loud explosions being heard around Bangkok in the last hour are?

[More occurring as I type]

Edited April 14, 2009 by Col98

[debcmai]

DAY OF INFAMY

Central Bangkok a war zone

Festive holiday is turned into a black nightmare

BANGKOK: -- The bloodstained start to Songkran - which transformed large swathes of downtown Bangkok into urban guerrilla war zones, leaving dozens of people wounded - was marked by the first shots around the Din Daeng triangle before dawn.

Less than an hour later, the crackle of sporadic live gunfire from soldiers could still be heard, alternating with angry shouts from red-shirted, anti-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) protesters who refuse to simply retreat.

DAAD leaders claim some red-shirt protesters were killed during the clashes.

The government has denied a report that officials covered up protesters' deaths by removing the bodies in a GMC truck. It cited reports by hospitals that no one receiving treatment for injuries died.

Everyone, including me, has to run for cover every now and then.

"There can be no end if no one wants to admit defeat," says a motorcyclist who volunteered to drop this reporter off at the nearby hotspot. He says he is an off-duty police officer and his wife and children are among the demonstrators.

Protesters curse the military for firing real, not rubber, M16 bullets at them. Some were aimed at the sky, others apparently not.

Not everyone is sympathetic with the pro-Thaksin Shinawatra reds, however.

"They deserve it," says Pairoj Somjaipeng, a cabby in the area who supports the People's Alliance for Democracy, the nemesis of the reds.

"Last night they carried wooden clubs and other weapons. I think what the military did was right. And nobody died," he says.

"I want to ask how the reds love the King ... I think they love Thaksin more," he says, referring to the frequent allegation that the reds are out to destroy the royal institution.

The military side is led by Lt-Colonel Chinnuphan Rodsiri, who commands 200 or so troops dispatched from Aranyaprathet on the Thai-Cambodian border.

A lone monk defies the 200 armed soldiers, stepping out to address them with a loudspeaker at 6.40am, just a few metres away from the troops. He urges the soldiers not to shoot at people.

"This area has become lawless," Chinnuphan complains to me. "They shut the roads down and search people. Even the Asean Summit [last weekend], which was the face of the country, wasn't spared. Everyone demands their rights but do not know their responsibilities."

Soon another monk emerges on the other side of the triangle as the jittery soldiers shout. "How can a monk carry guns" cries one, as the monk slinks away.

Some distance beyond the front line of soldiers, groups of reds sit in front of Santiphab Park, or Peace Park. "We only have rocks, bottles and slingshots," says one. The two bottles nearby are Molotov cocktails, however.

On the other corner of the triangle, protesters claim they saw a driver of a bus full of red protesters get shot and collapse while trying to run over soldiers before dawn.

"Please help us," pleads one lady, in despair. "Please don't allow them to die in vain."

The reds no longer believe in much of what most of the local media report, as they are convinced that the media are anti-Thaksin and conclude that the reports of deaths must have been covered up or censored.

Protesters here and at other locations appear to be acting at least semi-independently of the DAAD leaders who are still holding out at Government House with supporters.

And as the day progresses and more shootings are seen and heard, more Molotov cocktails are being prepared at various spots.

Public buses were set ablaze at several sites, accompanied by the sound of M16s firing. At least three LPG gas tankers were commandeered by protesters by afternoon, but disaster was avoided. The shootings, clashes and burnings were disastrous enough.

A DAAD leader who asked not to be named tells this writer in the afternoon that the torching of Bangkok is virtually inevitable. "They have all the stuff prepared and we can't control them. People died, but the media censored the fact."

Protesters fight and retreat, soldiers shoot and advance. Victory Monument was abandoned, Sri Ayutthaya Road retaken, but the protesters - portrayed by most Thai media as a paid mob - regroup and resist.

Would they have risked their lives for Bt500 or Bt5,000 on Thai New Year's Day

The skirmishes and retreats and regroupings go on well into the evening as protesters scatter to some dozen pockets in the 2 or 3 square kilometres of downtown Bangkok.

Most shopping malls shut down on their own.

"This is guerrilla warfare," one foreign journalist tells me as we watch a scene so surreal, as if it came straight from some apocalyptic movie. But it was all real.

Some children, oblivious to the chaos falling on the city, are still seen splashing water as they would on any Songkran.

For many others it was red blood that had splattered, mixed with tears, irritation, anger, desperation or shock, depending on whom you ask.

-- By Pravit Rojanaphruk/The Nation 2009-04-14

Thank you, thank you for this very balanced report. Why are none of you commenting on this? Amazing. There are obviously some things that are being covered up here.

[Rionoir]

I agree that calling this a warzone is totally irresponsible... all they are doing with that is making our families back home crazy because they think we are going to get shot walking to 7-11. On my way home from Koh Chang yesterday I was sitting with another foreigner, and some people were calling her to see if she had enough water at home because the US apparently recommended that we lock ourselves in our rooms and not go anywhere. LoL

[johnefallis]

NEW: Thaksin interview on CNN:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Inte...nn-t257285.html

I saw this interview. Thaksin wouldn't give a straightforward answer to several straightforward questions. Thaksin could care less about democracy. This is all about the 70 billion baht in frozen assets he wants back, and Thaksin would scr_w his own mother to get it. Since she won't have anything to do with him, he's scr_wing Thailand instead.

Then they should just give him back the money. They most likely should not have taken it in the first place. I wouldn't stop trying to get it back either. Would you?

[Jonny B]

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

Im not talking about european/american labour unions! and i dont think you can really compare the working class of europe and america to the poorer class of thailand.

do you personally know how much money thaksin has and where it it? he think he doesnt have any money overseas etc?

ive wasted enough time on this reply.

[Col98]

Can report that Sukhumvit Road (lower end) is very quiet at the moment.

[MJo]

Anyone have any idea what the loud explosions being heard around Bangkok in the last hour are?

[More occurring as I type]

Where are you located ?

[jack1964]

So where does the real embarrasment lay, with Abhisit or Thaksin. In the eyes of world leaders and indead the world at large, Thaksin has once again proven that he cares for no one other than himself, and he is in fact Thailands biggest embarrasment and cause for embarrasment. Thaksin sits in a plush chair in a five star hotel pushing people to their deaths with false hope and promises. How can a man that loves the people he wishes to lead incite violence and bloodshed on the joyess occasion of Songkran and a time for celebration by the Thai people. He has shown the educated world that he has no love for the Kingdom, the King, or the Thai people. He should never be allowed to grace the world stage that Thailand sits upon. He should no longer be allowed to set foot into the beautiful country who's democracy he has set out to destroy. He has displayed nothing other than evil and contempt for his countrymen. He is inciting a poor and simple section of the community to take up weapons and have their blood spilt only for his political aspirations, an attempt to regain control of what would end up a dictatorship. One to only pad his pockets, wallet, and bank accounts. Abhisit is an educated man, an Obama style leader that has good intentions to take Thailand to the world as a wonderful tourist destination, a wonderful place to conduct business, and is determined to take Thailand to the next level where all of Thailand would benefit. He is a leader of vision, a young man with something to prove to the world, and he is prepared to do all he can to secure a better Thailand for all of Thailand and its people. He is determined to drag it out of the dark ages and proclaim Thailand as a destination of beauty, culture, friendliness and commerce. Thaksin, shame on you for choosing to incite people with your emotional blackmail. You have no care or respect for your contry, your King, or the Kings people. May a royal decree be drawn up that you are never allowed to step up onto Thailand stage again. Forever live in excile.

[wasabi]

The Thai soldiers and the mobs of the Red Shirt Thailand faction. The situation right now is extremely terrible and horrible. At this moment here (13/April/2009 – 2100 GMT+7), the soldiers in Thailand are killing civilians with their weapons after the evening, and they do not report about the deaths of the mobs. The media announce that there are no deaths among the mobs, but that is completely false intel. As a witness, I am looking out of my windows, completely witnessing all the firing of weapons from the soldiers against the mobs. One by one, the individuals of the mobs have fallen. We need your help from all over the world, to know the situation that is happening in Thailand. We only want peace for our country, so I hope that by this e-mail, the truth will be revealed.

pics or it didn't happen.

[Jing Joe]

My wife was in a Bkk taxi yesterday and the driver told her that his last passenger, a lady, told him she had been paid TB 1000 to protest.

Sure it is second hand news, maybe not true?, most likely is true, but I'll leave it be now and say again;-

May there be peace and smiles in Thailand.

[MJo]

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

Im not talking about european/american labour unions! and i dont think you can really compare the working class of europe and america to the poorer class of thailand.

do you personally know how much money thaksin has and where it it? he think he doesnt have any money overseas etc?

ive wasted enough time on this reply.

I was not comparing them to anything, just amazed to see how people rant here about the protesters being paid. Big deal, so what. What i was just pointing out that protesters everywhere in the world get "paid".

Yellows paid, reds paid, the blues were definedly paid so what's new....

Maybe you should stop wasting your time indeed...

[Col98]

Anyone have any idea what the loud explosions being heard around Bangkok in the last hour are?

[More occurring as I type]

Where are you located ?

Sukhumvit Soi 10 - they were not close but a distinct number of explosions.

[yom07]

Anyone have any idea what the loud explosions being heard around Bangkok in the last hour are?

[More occurring as I type]

Heard that as well, however I thought a storm was coming.

[Col98]

Not a storm. Distinct explosions. Thought they might be coming from over at government house. No news to confirm as yet.

[MJo]

Anyone have any idea what the loud explosions being heard around Bangkok in the last hour are?

[More occurring as I type]

Where are you located ?

Sukhumvit Soi 10 - they were not close but a distinct number of explosions.

I'm in soi 18 and could not hear anything here... Lightning comes to mind first.

[on-on]

From Thong Lo they sound like they're coming from the direction of The Port or from Sathorn, but I can't see or tell anything conclusive really. Been going on for an hour or so now intermittently, though. Usually when I hear that noise here or in Manila it's construction cranes dropping really big stuff, but who knows today.

Edited April 14, 2009 by on-on

[lordsux]

I agree that calling this a warzone is totally irresponsible... all they are doing with that is making our families back home crazy because they think we are going to get shot walking to 7-11. On my way home from Koh Chang yesterday I was sitting with another foreigner, and some people were calling her to see if she had enough water at home because the US apparently recommended that we lock ourselves in our rooms and not go anywhere. LoL

Yes, must have been very scary being on Koh Chang - Maybe you should comment on something that you have some knowledge about.

[p_brownstone]

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

Im not talking about european/american labour unions! and i dont think you can really compare the working class of europe and america to the poorer class of thailand.

do you personally know how much money thaksin has and where it it? he think he doesnt have any money overseas etc?

ive wasted enough time on this reply.

I was not comparing them to anything, just amazed to see how people rant here about the protesters being paid. Big deal, so what. What i was just pointing out that protesters everywhere in the world get "paid".

Yellows paid, reds paid, the blues were definedly paid so what's new....

Maybe you should stop wasting your time indeed...

Unionised Protests are paid for from the members' Union Subscriptions, they are not financed by an individual whos' only intent is to cause damage, disruption and death for his own selfish ends.

Patrick

[debcmai]

The Thai soldiers and the mobs of the Red Shirt Thailand faction. The situation right now is extremely terrible and horrible. At this moment here (13/April/2009 – 2100 GMT+7), the soldiers in Thailand are killing civilians with their weapons after the evening, and they do not report about the deaths of the mobs. The media announce that there are no deaths among the mobs, but that is completely false intel. As a witness, I am looking out of my windows, completely witnessing all the firing of weapons from the soldiers against the mobs. One by one, the individuals of the mobs have fallen. We need your help from all over the world, to know the situation that is happening in Thailand. We only want peace for our country, so I hope that by this e-mail, the truth will be revealed.

What part of the city? Without giving yourself away?

[tominbkk]

The Thai soldiers and the mobs of the Red Shirt Thailand faction. The situation right now is extremely terrible and horrible. At this moment here (13/April/2009 – 2100 GMT+7), the soldiers in Thailand are killing civilians with their weapons after the evening, and they do not report about the deaths of the mobs. The media announce that there are no deaths among the mobs, but that is completely false intel. As a witness, I am looking out of my windows, completely witnessing all the firing of weapons from the soldiers against the mobs. One by one, the individuals of the mobs have fallen. We need your help from all over the world, to know the situation that is happening in Thailand. We only want peace for our country, so I hope that by this e-mail, the truth will be revealed.

pics or it didn't happen.

nice one...

[Jonny B]

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

Im not talking about european/american labour unions! and i dont think you can really compare the working class of europe and america to the poorer class of thailand.

do you personally know how much money thaksin has and where it it? he think he doesnt have any money overseas etc?

ive wasted enough time on this reply.

I was not comparing them to anything, just amazed to see how people rant here about the protesters being paid. Big deal, so what. What i was just pointing out that protesters everywhere in the world get "paid".

Yellows paid, reds paid, the blues were definedly paid so what's new....

Maybe you should stop wasting your time indeed...

well actually you were comparing them and i wasnt ranting and yes i will stop wasting my time with you!