Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[HagenvonTronje]

Hey Koo, you and your "double standards", what about those that stole the buses and set them on fire, anyone in jail yet? Just how much cost one of the orange buses?

Several days after the Songkran in Blood, a Pro-Abhisit tv channel interviewed someone. He said the buses which were burnt have been used in years so he could not estimate the cost, but it could probably around 1 million Baht each.

So we're back to the bus subject. That day I saw many soldier trucks running on BKK streets. If I'm not wrong they said on tv that more than 4,000 soldiers were there and were on many streets.

The reds could not bring their pickups to supply foods to the protesters. How could they bring 52 buses in and burnt more than 30? Jatupon said the reds might hijack some buses but not all.

Lie's is the only thing you can conjure up.

Again, as stated 10 times before, I was at Victory Monument less than an hour before the riots and burning of buses. I had no problem reaching the location. (The problem was getting _through_ it to pick whatever street I wanted with the Taxi.)

To arrive at the location with buses (several of them was there, one was unloading some 30-40 reds as I was inside the round-about itself!) wasn't an issue and neither to get any food-trucks there.

What you post has nothing to do with the real events that happened. Where were YOU when this went down?

Please state, for the record, what your location was.

where did koo exactly lie?

because you saw from all the buses "one was unloading some 30-40 reds " so, you saw some reds that had taken a bus.

and? where is the punch line?

is that a riot?

and when exactly was it, what time? "less than a hour before the riots started"? what riots? the ones that leads the army to start to "clean" the street at 4 o'clock in the morning. so you have been there around at 3 o'clock, to go to the gym and alter to go to the office, to work on songkran monday.

why you didn't take some pictures? that is the most demanded thing here.

of friend of mine told me, that he went out on monday, to be an curious onlooker, it was his free day, songkran holiday - no office work, he told me he didn't saw that much or could take any good pictures. just a lot of soldiers, sitting around, bored, waiting of somewhat. but that is only his personal perception. one signle eye witness account. that he didn't saw soldiers shoting and reds rioting doesn't mean that i didn't happen.

but my guess is you didn't saw much more either. or did you? but than the next question, do you have photos, clips, videos, evidence?

and to unfold what really happen, you must collect a pool of information, eye witness protocols, photos, videos and so on, investigate the case, looking for facts. and don't come with some emotional opinions and conclusions a la, thaksin so rich, so he is bad, i don't like him, so red shirt must be bad and evil too.

that is kindergarden.

stick to facts, factual information, factual reports and don't overload them with emotions. look at is as neutral investigator, neutral observer, neutral historian.

if your findings lead to conclusions and you voice your rating, approval, judgement, criticism back that up with factual arguments instead of two lines of gaga text with a smiley.

can you?

[Plus]

Do you seriously expect the police to catch all perpetrators of Songkran violence? All hijackers of several dozen buses? Interview all witnesses, collect forensic evidence and so on?

It's simly impossible.

[Thanh-BKK]

HVT.

That you are in bed with Thaksin respectively Koo is no secret and i don't mind that as long as the discussion remains focused. I was asking Koo's opinion on the ACTUAL double standards currently exercised by the BiB as oppposed to the fictional double standards she is constantly crying about.

For example, she keeps on crying about red mobsters being arrested (conveniently overlooking that so far every single one has been released the same day on bail) while the "evil yellows" are not arrested (where they, in fact, have been arrested as well and also released on bail).

And then we have this news story about this elderly woman (sorry it was in Phuket, not Pattaya) who got arrested for stealing a towel from a bar even though she didn't even steal it and she was thrown in jail for four days before bail was granted. At the same time people who stole and destroyed public buses are still free and roaming the streets even though they have been caught in the act on live television cameras.

This, sir, is ACTUAL double standards and maybe something for Koo to think about. But i guess her brain is no longer working the right way because it has been washed to hot by the red propaganda. Or how could she (and you for that matter) still go on defending murderers and anarchists who destroyed public and private property and killed people? Oh of course, the excuse is "those weren't reds".

Regards.....

Thanh

[sriracha john]

Ex-Finance Minister insists on legality of rubber sapling program

Former Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusriphitak today gave his testimony over the controversial rubber sapling project at the Supreme Court’s Division for Cases Against Political Office-Holders.

Somkid appeared at the court to testify in the corruption case in the purchase of 90 million rubber saplings, initiated by the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives during the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai Party's administration.

He denied all allegations against him, saying the procurement was legitimately conducted and the Cabinet as well endorsed the project to help farmers generate income.

He claimed that none of the committee expressed opposition over the approved 1.4 billion baht budget during the meeting since they believed the Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry would be able to repay the amount of money.

Meanwhile, former chairman of the Thai Farmers Group Mr. Ubolsak Bualuangngarm gave the court testimony over the case thereafter. The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) filed charges against the former Deputy Prime Minister, who previously acted as chairman of the Farmers Assistance Committee.

-- NNT 2009-05-20

[sheff_mick]

Lets keep all Thaksin related criminal charges here:

Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

///CLOSED///

===================================================================

what has this rubber sapling case to do with the arrest warrants for traffic law violation and illegal assembly of more than 10 people at songkran?

HT

If i may be allowed to quote the part quote above from Sriracha John post 690 in relation to the subject matter of other issues and in particular the EKJ thread.

May i suggest you PM Admin ( SBK ) and maybe put your repeated grievances to them about this thread being dedicated to the reds at songkran ect.

If i may respectfully and humbly suggest, perhaps admin could modify the threads title to accommodate all related criminal charges on Thaksin.

On the other hand the EKJ,S have nothing what so ever to do with the " reds " and is a totally seperate topic.

An honest observation and in no way questioning the proven abilities of SBK, of many times over.

It is about the Ex PM of the Ex TRT and in my honest and humble opinion, still deserves the dedicated thread that has been debating the very important issues connected to it for some time now and is indeed still ongoing

May i respectfully ask if there is any chance that i can submit a request that it may be reopened for further ongoing debate.

Looking at the T visa news thread, there are so many less worthy items that have and are still ongoing and are cluttering lots of space up.

If it is considered not news worthy for what ever reasons, could it be reopened and moved to another suitable forum please.

Well over 2,000 posts surely show it is a worthwhile thread, with still lots more mileage in it.

Sadly there have been several posts in recent times that have possibly had an influence on the closing of it, the posters need a good kick where the sun doesn,t shine for choosing to undermine the subject matter of the thread.

Respectfully offered and not criticizing SBK or moderational issues

S. Mick

Edited May 20, 2009 by sheff_mick

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Koo, these nice charming non-voilent and peace loving reds of yours were the ones who spit at the gays at the CM Gay Pride Parade and demanded that it shut down. Was that charming? And don't tell me they weren't reds, they were. They admitted to it with pride too! Spitting Koo. Charming indeed. Oh, and they were the same reds who murdered the father of a yellow community radio host. Charming.

[TAWP]

Why didn't the Red-dressed peace loving people stop the red and black-dressed people that attacked soldiers, police and civilians? Not very peace-loving to allow them to perform this violence in their name.

[HagenvonTronje]

I was here in 2003 and Thailand's stock market (SET)went up 103% that year. Thaksin has several Companies listed so that would explain the wealth no? I don't think it was just his companies that did well. The entire nation prospered I recall.

It would be interesting to compare the average stock market returns with Thaksins Companies.

Did they really out perform the average or have we been fed a bunch of propaganda?

Here's some additional information on just what Thaksin's shenanigans did for his and his family's net worth.

quote 'baht&sold'

-snip-

quote 'Tony Clifton'

-snip-

quote 'somtaamgaiyang' p

-snip-

Mr. Albert, you see the propaganda just went in circles, chase their own tail, quote and cite their own output as reference without any real evidence or factual informations from sources you can more or less trust.

The economic was prosper, lots of people got their fair share and just to become rich isn't a crime. Lazy commies would argue that way.

Another question would be, how much Thaksin or the shinawatra complex had done for the country, provided jobs for the people, so that they have an assured income and a job for , a work for the 'shinawatra complex' was it salve labour, ruthless exploitation? I doubt that.

There is only a lot propaganda of people who failed to build up something valuable by themselves and stick to the attitude to blame others for that.

How much tax money paid the shinawatra complex back to the state, the 'society'? Any statistics about that?

All this numbers that get so often mentioned, useful are they only if you bring a comparison how others have done and put them into relation.

Another point, where Thaksin s often and also rightly blame it for are human right issues. But to blame him alone for the death in tak bai and in the drug war is stupid propagandistic exaggeration.

Treatment of minorities, situation in the south, at what point we are right now, any changes, anything better?

That what happen with the Rohingya people or the Hmong right now, anybody distressed or touched by their fate? Specially the ones that show so much emotions and grief for Thaksins 'victims'. Do they really care about human right issues? Where are their voices now, when unethical thing and injustice happen, right here, right now, almost in front of their eyes. And you could argue that it happen even in the streets of Bangkok, when the military is called to a crackdown on the opposition, but this got loved by them.

Hypocrisy and mendacity.

Another issue would be the freedom of expression, freedom of the press, right of information. Thaksin wasn't a good whit that. I know. But that is not the question. Look what happen right now - is much worse than under Thaksin. What the secretary of the PM told for statements how the media should be, have to be and what to obey and also Abhisit himself is outrageous wrong.

Okay it doesn’t hurt physical, if you don't read it in the local press and you don't look further you don't realised it and ignore it.

but the one who are capable of google some by the propaganda abbreviated versions of human right organisations reports on Thaksins misdeeds, why don't look what happen right now and what the human right organisations have to say right now, the public, foreign journalists and so on.

An internal fact finding commission didn't find anything wrong with the treatment of the Rohingya, blah, blah, might be an answer. So okay, the war on dugs got scrutinized and investigated by the junta, they didn't find anything, processable evidence.

war on drug, tak bai and so on, ugly events, sad thing that happens, but is to simple, narrow and short minded to blame Thaksin here alone. And repeat that in the discussion ongoing as the final argument, the preachy killer phrase, double moral standards.

The same is it with Thaksins wealth, whereby the argument for his misdeeds and wrongdoings are that he just is it, stinky rich. And?

Capitalist, business shouldn't be involved in state power, that is right. and the state power shouldn't be so overall strong and even if Thaksin ruled as the only one director, the CEO, actually he was going to reduce 'state power' and reduce corruption with an reduce of state controlled administrative entities.

To have the economy afloat, you must free them. Only a free economy can keep running. For state controlled economy lot's of tax money is burned to keep the cold rigor system lukewarm.

But all that is actually not the topic here, same as the rubber sapling case. This is about the songkran incidents, the arrest warrants of accused leader, suspected red shirts. There isn't any final judgement made yet by the officials the Judiciary, this government merely the plaintiff and it rest with the plaintiff to

submit evidence, and the red shirts as accused have to right to defence pleas.

In dubio pro reo, innocent until proven guilty. That’s a concept everybody got here. As the reds said there have been deaths, killed by the army, they had the burden of proof, to bring pictures or it didn't happen, the PM is clean as Pontius Pilatus.

But the positions in the main case are reverse. Burden of prove is within the government and 'everybody knows' isn't an argument or fact or evidence.

Prove pleuuase.

Here in the forum we can now do a role playing game, not more, just a virtual social meeting, and it's free for everybody to choose a role here. Take the seats for the spectators, be third-party experts. play a little bit State prosecutor or Defence lawyer or like here Koo, who takes the role of the accused, the player in the role of the state prosecutor or the plaintiff should bring their evidence, facts that are strong enough to be convinced of the guilt of the red shirts, reds should given the time to defend themselves, maybe they do it in layman terms, but should respected and the right given to say something., role player who choose the character of a defence lawyer, shouldn't be blamed and treated as a culprit. For the balance you need an advocatus diaboli.

Plebs, heckler, disquieter in the audience got removed from the court room, it isn't an acceptable behaviour, and nobody should play such a role here.

Remember, it's just a virtual social meeting, keep things civil.

Another role playing game would be to see it as a virtual wrestling match or football game. team λ vs. team ψ or whatever. Black or white, there is no space in between. Supported by cheerleader, fans, and ultras. The goal isn't fact finding but to WIN. Chosen tactic to be louder than sane, thunderous chants, redundancies, hullabaloo, hubbub and ballyhoo, thread flooding and to silence the fans of the other team and if you are not one of us, your are an enemy. Hardcore believers in the opposite truths battle each other with their musturbation (not a typo) of true facts. Winner is the mobocracy when everybody else left the room, because a conversation isn't fun with all the kindergarden noise.

[Koo82]

For example, she keeps on crying about red mobsters being arrested (conveniently overlooking that so far every single one has been released the same day on bail) while the "evil yellows" are not arrested (where they, in fact, have been arrested as well and also released on bail).

PAD leaders were arrested for the case they occupied Government House and they were released on bail and continued to occupy GH until early December 2008. One day after Khun Somchai and PPP finished, PAD left Suvarnabhumi and went home. They still set up concerts here and there and Sondhi is not in Thailand now if I'm not wrong.

After 14th April, the red leaders were held by police for 11 days. Red leaders were released on bail with conditions not to go overseas and not to instigate people to do wrong things.

Do you see the difference?

[HagenvonTronje]

HVT.

That you are in bed with Thaksin respectively Koo is no secret and i don't mind that as long as the discussion remains focused. I was asking Koo's opinion on the ACTUAL double standards currently exercised by the BiB as oppposed to the fictional double standards she is constantly crying about.

...

And then we have this news story about this elderly woman (sorry it was in Phuket, not Pattaya) who got arrested for stealing a towel from a bar even though she didn't even steal it and she was thrown in jail for four days before bail was granted. At the same time people who stole and destroyed public buses are still free and roaming the streets even though they have been caught in the act on live television cameras.

That I am in bed with Thaksin is that another "sorts of reasonable statements" that you claim to have?

And where is your "ACTUAL standard of accuracy?

Before you demand: "Then please explain how come that a 79-year old lady in Pattaya spend several days in jail for allegedly stealing a towel (!) from a bar, even though another person actually confessed of having put it in the grandmother's handbag??"

Now it was in Phuket, but still the elderly woman.

hhmm, I just cross read the first 2 pages of the forum thread to that case, to get some information of the case you can actually not compare.

Your 79 years old grandmother has a mother, who is 19 years younger than 79 years old. The towel was a bar mat worth 50-60 $, she had a couple of drinks, witnesses speaking of some abusive and disrespect words to the police and that she even try do run away. The police say they had caught the person red handed with that towel in her hand bag. The several days of jail are maybe only two nights in arrest, and that includes the night of the arrest. A friend of her confessed 'deed' and claimed it was a 'joke'. I don't want comment this story. It’s just freak news, odd news. seems to be that the police in phuket run a no broken window strategy and maybe overreacting when handle with intoxicated with other cultural backgrounds. Language is a problem here too. Who knows, you think it's funny but come to a policeman who had a bad day and run-ins with 15 other 'funnies' already. Yup, the Aussie tourist has a bad day too.

but okay, first reports are often faulty, maybe it turned out later that the woman was not 36 years old but actually 79, and in pattaya and several day in jail.

Is that the case? Or did you just the facts of your reasonable statements total wrong? That you got it total wrong I spotted in a couple of your entries in the past.

And why are the culprits that got caught in the act of stealing and destroying the public buses by live TV cameras not arrested? That’s a good question, who are those perpetrator? You can not blame the reds or koo that the police didn't perform well with their duties. Why no arrests?

I remember this very shaky video. A shot was to hear, an arrested red shirt goes to the ground, got beaten, dragged across the road. Someone drive the bus away to an undisclosed location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67xdHyXc7UM

That video was part of a claim that people had been shot. Counter evidence was quickly found, another camera man caught the same scene on tape from an different angle it show that the man just got a hit on the head. So everything all fine. The further beating, police violence(?) was no problem at all and that man actually a hero:

TOC News 21.04. : An unlucky bus driver whom the red-shirts claimed was shot dead by Army officials was confirmed by his supervisor as alive and well today, saying the incident in which he was hit on the head was a misunderstanding between red-shirts and Army officials.The man was later identified as Tienchai Sakuntaharn, the driver of bus number 64. Tienchai said his bus was stolen by red-shirt protesters on Samsen Road on April 13 and was driven to Rajchadumneon Avenue and positioned to block the Army's path to the major rally site. ...

Tienchai said he was afraid his bus would be burnt by the protesters. He then put on a red-shirt, pretending to be a protester, and tried to drive his bus away from the conflict. However, soldiers believed he was a protester intent on driving the bus into a line of soldiers, so he was hit on the head and arrested.

How believable that is, the story of the poor bus driver who just wanted to save his bus ....okay. A nice little propaganda add value. Trenches pressed with charges that he intended to kill soldiers, or he got a free ticket out of jail, with that little #get back my stolen bus story'. Whatever.

Once is clear, the army and the police was also filming all the time and could like in this case quickly show counter evidence. They should have also clear evidence, photos and videos from the other hot spot action points, the killing of the residents, who drove the Gas truck around and so on. Easy to indentify and caught the culprits. Why that doesn’t happen, why they don't show more material of the red hard core violence? Answer - no pic, no video - it didn't happen.

There are burning buses and burning tires, maybe got ignited by red shirts maybe by agent provocateurs. And there are pictures of it, looks like reds doing it. But not pictures of masses of red shirts going crazy, evidence that justify of using the army as the unit doing the crackdown.

I think koo said that the red admit that it can be that buses had been destroyed by red shirts, but not all. To prove such claim, that the reds have done all this, you must bring the evidence. 'Photos and clips and so on' Abhisit said, that are real evidence. Fact finding commission just start to investigate, there are not much results yet and yes, arrests missing, if they real got caught red handed on tape.

If I look at the Government webpage that promised to bring the Facts http://www.factreport.go.th , there is not much to see and that little bit that they have are some newspaper article and TV clips, that got already disproven and as false or misleading reporting identified. It’s garbage evidence.

and pictures, videos that shows the incidents from another angle, that show s more about what happen at the clashes with the residents, photos and pictures that show how red shirts got beaten, tuktuks, taxis, moto bikes destroyed, violence by soldiers, that "peaceful residents" actually group up to a violent mob, that is not shown. The claim by the government, n live bullets haven been fired, is also disproven.

Just look at the grandma in Pattaya story- how much you can trust in your own beliefs, your own memory. Not much – you got it totally wrong. But it’s human, can happen to everybody, especially in an emotional state. Wishful thinking and beliefs can become truth, but outside your mind they are not. And you talked so often about the buses and how criminal that is by the reds. Yellows never did that, right, stole buses, destroyed buses. Is that your claim? Have you ever been to take a look at the yellow camp, visit them? Or is it just all something that you believe to have seen on TV? Tell me if you need pictures.

Reset your memory of songkran, look at the TV footage again and at the pictures, look if there is evidence of red shirt rioters at din daeng, red shirts that kill residents, red shirts that destroy all those buses. Look again, unbiased, and recheck if the pictures that showing what you had in your mind.

[Koo82]

And then we have this news story about this elderly woman (sorry it was in Phuket, not Pattaya) who got arrested for stealing a towel from a bar even though she didn't even steal it and she was thrown in jail for four days before bail was granted. At the same time people who stole and destroyed public buses are still free and roaming the streets even though they have been caught in the act on live television cameras.

Pro Abhisit live television cameras? Do you know that they shut down all red tv and radios so reds could not defense themselves?

Let me remind you that police asked PAD to report in early March but PAD said they were not free and reported to police on 30th March. After that they went home. From what I know, no PAD is arrested yet.

But police just came to Arisaman's home and arrested him immediately. Do you know that law says they must ask him to report to police first before they can arrest him? Do you know they took Arisaman in a helicopter but did not tell him where they took him to? This is against law. The person must know where.

What did they do to the blues who attacked the reds in Pattaya? Nothing.

What did they do to the "made believe to be reds" who stole and burnt buses? Nothing.

My answer is: fake reds are free

[Koo82]

Koo, these nice charming non-voilent and peace loving reds of yours were the ones who spit at the gays at the CM Gay Pride Parade and demanded that it shut down. Was that charming? And don't tell me they weren't reds, they were. They admitted to it with pride too! Spitting Koo. Charming indeed. Oh, and they were the same reds who murdered the father of a yellow community radio host. Charming.

Sorry I didn't watch those cases so I can't discuss.

[Koo82]

HVT.

That you are in bed with Thaksin respectively Koo is no secret and i don't mind that as long as the discussion remains focused.

Excuse me but who is in bed with who?

[HagenvonTronje]

It is about the Ex PM of the Ex TRT and in my honest and humble opinion, still deserves the dedicated thread that has been debating the very important issues connected to it for some time now and is indeed still ongoing

...

If it is considered not news worthy for what ever reasons, could it be reopened and moved to another suitable forum please.

Well over 2,000 posts surely show it is a worthwhile thread, with still lots more mileage in it.

There are a couple of threads devoted to Thaksins crime and a lot of them still open and also threads that are devoted to individual members of Thaksin family and next of kin. Threads that would fit the issue of the rubber sapling case much better, like older Newin related discussions for example. They could need a bump up, for the fun to see what was written about Newin as an 'unofficial' cabinet member just one year ago. And he is again a shadow member of the cabinet. It isn't so that all cases of political misdeeds and corruptions are related to Thaksin, but more or less a basic principle of politics, it was there before Thaksin and is there after Thaksin.

The black songkran, the charges against the reds are still disputed. The separate incidents across the city still under investigation.

To put all other Thaksin related charges into this thread doesn't make much sense to me. And to rename the thread title into "Lets keep all Thaksin related criminal charges here" wouldn't make so much sense either, same as it is if somebody takes it as order and follow that blind.

The rubber case deserved an own thread, the war on drug should also have his own thread. Tax evasion as well. But all in one single thread leads to generalization, blurry correctness, stories got retold over and over again, sometime only from memory, not a correct source is given. Everything changes from time to time little bit and the result is adulteration. They know their stories as hearsay, lot of folkloristic anecdotes added. The bad, bad Thaksin become a myth, a fairy tale. And suddenly not more a question of truth or not but a case of do you believe in Santa or not.

All and everything in to one thread makes it difficult to study a case. May be I want to know more details and to know it exactly. I don't trust my own memory and I don't think I know it all, so if I want to recapitulate the rubber sapling case, for example I have to scroll through dozens of pages that doesn't have information, but noise. If I want to recapitulate the rubber sapling case, I don't want to read or scroll through the songkran riot thread.

Albeit a little bit in partisan colours, but such an old thread, whit a timeline, what was the 'knowledge' or the 'truth' 3, 4 years ago, could be an interesting read at a rainy weekend. There is a value in "old" threads, you can exploit them to gain knowledge. This possibility get spoiled if you mix it all together into on topic.

Move them to another forum would be a good solution. I can see that other users maybe feel disturbed by a thread bump, but there are still a few members who see the value of an update. But that could also mean a higher workload for the mods. More threads to keep an eye on it. discussions they are not follow or carefully read or are not interested in. that small light that I am, could assume that the order "Lets keep all Thaksin related criminal charges here" is a sign of ignorance, but that is just my own misinterpretation.

There was also a cool Abhisit thread, in the meantime a little bit misleading title, because breaking news, Abhisit new PM, so it got eventually closed. A pity. this was a broad topic, everything about Abhisit, the new face, he got introduced, got observed how he is doing, the new PM, and some not actually new news article, but an opinion piece from the international press, something like a herald tribune or WSJ review of the his first quarter as PM, or one month after the Asean fiasco - how is the PM doing. Such kind alike articles, there is no reason to open a new topic, new thread with them. With running topics closed, no thread open to place them as update.

And I asked already to reopen the recently closed thread, the ones that have been devoted to a specific issue, specific crime, specific Thaksin related and not just a broad range "Lets keep all Thaksin related blah and his dog and everything what is old here". Each case deserves his updates. I didn't got an answer.

[Thanh-BKK]

Actually i start to believe that you two are the same person. So much BS just can't be made up by two at the same time.

Thanh

Edited May 20, 2009 by Thanh-BKK

[sriracha john]

Koo, these nice charming non-voilent and peace loving reds of yours were the ones who spit at the gays at the CM Gay Pride Parade and demanded that it shut down. Was that charming? And don't tell me they weren't reds, they were. They admitted to it with pride too! Spitting Koo. Charming indeed. Oh, and they were the same reds who murdered the father of a yellow community radio host. Charming.

Sorry I didn't watch those cases so I can't discuss.

Starts here...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2549317

Red threats call off gay march

and follows several, several dozen posts later with a recap:

Red shirted demonstrators from the Rak Chiang Mai 51 group tangle with police as they try to halt the Gay Pride march in Chiang Mai.

Demonstrators hold placards bearing anti-gay slogans and shout abuse at the parade participants.

Gay Pride march halted by red shirt militants

Militant action by 200 Rak Chiang Mai 51 activists, led by Phetchawat Rattanaphongsirikul, brought the proposed Chiang Mai Gay Pride March to a halt on Saturday evening February 21 only minutes before it was due to start.

The parade had been scheduled to begin at the Saeng Tawan intersection, having first assembled at Buddha Sathan, and to continue along Chang Klan Road, finishing at Tawan Trendy Centre, where a party and other activities were to be held, including displays set up by HIV/Aids prevention NGOs.

Despite reassurances that the parade would be allowed by both the local authorities and the police, by 4.30 p.m. the Rak Chiang Mai 51 group, many masked and all wearing red, had gathered outside the forecourt at Buddha Sathan, where 20 of the mainly Thai organisers of the gay parade had already assembled.

The activists surrounded the compound, shouting abuse and homophobic comments and refusing entry to other participants.

Approximately 80 police were on the perimeter of the compound, attempting to keep order. Within the compound, an expat family including 5 children, all costumed for the parade, were threatened by the activists, who threw water containing cactus spines over the group, causing pain and irritation.

According to Rak Chiang Mai 51 members, the Gay Pride parade had been organised by local gay group Mplus with the intention of denigrating and harming the culture, history, and Lanna heritage of the beautiful city of Chiang Mai.

They stated that any such event should be permanently banned from taking place in the city.

Tempers continued to run high for several hours, although the presence of a large number of police prevented a major escalation. Participants in the parade who had assembled in Buddha Sathan were prevented from leaving the forecourt by the red-shirted activists.

Finally, Phetchawat and five core leaders of the group entered the forecourt and called for an end to the parade and an apology from the organisers.

Having no option, as the parade had not been allowed to leave the area, and fearing a violent outcome if they refused, the organisers accepted Rak Chiang Mai 51’s terms, cancelled the parade, and apologised. A request was made to police to ensure the gay group’s safe dispersal to their homes.

Pongthorn Chanlearn, one of the parade’s organisers, said, “This is the first time that conservative groups have attacked gay people - they say they are fighting for democracy. This is not democratic, this is unfair.”

Many sympathisers, both homosexual and heterosexual, including Chiang Mai students, expressed their sadness at the cancellation; with one saying, “This action has set back gay rights, harmed community relations and may have damaged much needed tourism.”

Meanwhile, at Tawan Trendy Mall, the proposed end of the parade, a stage had been set up for a beauty pageant and other entertainments. NGOs working with HIV/Aids, including Cultural Canvas and Mpower, had created displays and information stations aimed at gay men and sex workers. Visitors from all over Thailand, from China and from Burma were present at the mall.

At approximately 5.45 p.m, a small group of about 20 older Rak Chiang Mai 51 activists arrived, and immediately chased a tuk-tuk driver and his decorated vehicle containing foreign passengers from the area. Police prevented the activists from entering the mall itself. A woman who was photographing the activists was threatened - the police intervened, but would not let her continue photographing, although activists were allowed to continue doing so.

Shortly afterwards, the organisers were forced by the mall’s owner to take down the stage and all the information and exhibition booths.

The activists continued to shout abuse, stating that the parade had connections with the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and that they were protesting in favour of Lanna culture and Buddhism.

At Buddha Sathan, after the parade had been cancelled and the activists had dispersed, a number of gays and lesbians who had been meditating and holding a silent vigil outside Wat U-Pakut, walked into the compound carrying candles. An emotional 2 minutes’ silence was held. The meditators had previously been verbally abused by a group of activists, but had not responded.

At a press conference held the following morning, attended by representatives of 22 local NGOs and other organisations, Kittinan Daramadhaj, President of the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand, told the Chiang Mai Mail’s reporter that he would like to thank the people of Chiang Mai and Rak Chiang Mai 51 for expressing their opinions, although he did not consider their mode of expressions appropriate. He stated that he did not harbour any anger or contempt for them. He feels this is a case of serious misunderstanding, which has occurred because the Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade had been misrepresented by certain individuals who may have other agendas, saying that, “When the activists forced the cancellation of the parade, my organisation had to obey, but I consider that being made to apologise under threat is a violation of basic human rights.

The Rak Chiang Mai 51 group initially concerned itself purely with political matters, and advocated democracy. However, while the parade was still in the planning stages, their representatives spoke with us many times, but did not listen to or respect our opinions or our human rights and freedom of expression, which I consider they have now violated.”

Kittinan added that, “Chiang Mai is advertised as a city of culture and tourism, however, it seems that, at present, Rak Chiang Mai 51 are controlling everything, even the security of visitors and foreign tourists.”

Director of the parade’s organisers, Mplus’ Pongthorn Chanlearn added that, “What happened has been a huge learning curve for our organisation, and has made apparent the need to further bridge understanding regarding sexual rights and diversity with the general public. During this entire episode, we have received a great deal of support from groups throughout Thailand.

As a result, the Sexual Diversity Network and many local organisers have decided to commemorate February 21 annually nationwide in an attempt to promote sexual rights and diversity. A fund has been set up to this effect, which will also be used for legal costs in human rights lawsuits.”

Pongthorn, in conclusion, stated that his group will sit in meditation to spread peace and charity to all, especially Rak Chiang Mai 51 and those who are harming Thailand by their actions.

- Chiang Mai Mail / 2009-03-03

Edited May 21, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

People get charged and convicted not for how much tax they paid, but by how much they didin't. Politicians are judged corrupt not by how much they "gave" to people but by how much they took for themselves.

Utlimately it always comes back to the questin of law - can some people be put above the law or not. Some argue that in a democratic society if one wins enough votes, the law cannot touch him. Others argue that no one must be above the law regardless of popularity.

Another question is - every politician is trying to evade the law, why single out Thaksin. The answer is that every other politicians hides from the law, recognising law's authority. Thaksin publicly put himself above the law, which is a far serious offence.

[Sandstone Art]

Was at an 'evening open market' near Soemuang intersection last sunday.

There was a makeshift stage by the red shirts .

Loud speaker blaring with live music and then some red shirt made a speech.

Before he started his 'speech proper' , he started to yell and challenge a vendor from the market. He claimed that the vendor give him 'a unwelcome face' when she saw him walking pass just moments earlier.

He cursed her that she will be born as a pig in her next life cycle as she also give him the 'nose' unwelcome look

He even challenge the poor female vendor to come forward and 'settle' any unhappiness in front of the red stage.

He will 'certainly' teach her a lesson!

.............

Just how caring and loving this 'single red' shirt is?

He should be arrested (together with the other 14) for intimidating the poor female vendor!

[Ricardo]

Cue post from the usual suspects, claiming that this red-shirted thug was really a soldier disguised as a red-shirt, or was in fact perfectly entitled to intimidate & oppress the vendor, since he is fighting for freedom-for-the-people or justice or democracy. And the vendor is obviously a PAD-supporter, rather than just some poor woman, trying to earn a living.

[Sandstone Art]

Cue post from the usual suspects, claiming that this red-shirted thug was really a soldier disguised as a red-shirt, or was in fact perfectly entitled to intimidate & oppress the vendor, since he is fighting for freedom-for-the-people or justice or democracy. And the vendor is obviously a PAD-supporter, rather than just some poor woman, trying to earn a living.

You mean she is a 'yellow PAD' undercover?

It has not cross my innocent mind at all!

[Samuian]

Actually i start to believe that you two are the same person. So much BS just can't be made up by two at the same time.

Thanh

Mr.Thaksin's PR ghostwriter, public defender!

Nothing wrong with the accused fugitive,

none that the reds have done wrong, none,

all angels who come forth to liberate the country,

next south east asia and then the world!

The figure Hagen von Tronje got his head chopped off,

caught being a traitor!

[Insight]

Was at an 'evening open market' near Soemuang intersection last sunday.

There was a makeshift stage by the red shirts .

Loud speaker blaring with live music and then some red shirt made a speech.

Before he started his 'speech proper' , he started to yell and challenge a vendor from the market. He claimed that the vendor give him 'a unwelcome face' when she saw him walking pass just moments earlier.

He cursed her that she will be born as a pig in her next life cycle as she also give him the 'nose' unwelcome look

He even challenge the poor female vendor to come forward and 'settle' any unhappiness in front of the red stage.

He will 'certainly' teach her a lesson!

.............

Just how caring and loving this 'single red' shirt is?

He should be arrested (together with the other 14) for intimidating the poor female vendor!

Old habits clearly die hard with the red shirts.

[HagenvonTronje]

the red shirts violate the traffic law and illegal assembly of more than 10 people, caught on tape:

2bangkok.com

[Koo82]

Actually i start to believe that you two are the same person. So much BS just can't be made up by two at the same time.

So much biased statements just can't be made up by two at the same time?

I'm very sure that I'm not HagenvonTronje but I am sure that if I see Khun Thaksin, I will run to hug him. This is for sure. Poor the good man being harmed by jealous people.

[Thanh-BKK]

I'm very sure that I'm not HagenvonTronje but I am sure that if I see Khun Thaksin, I will run to hug him. This is for sure. Poor the good man being harmed by jealous people.

Why, is that a problem?

Go to Suvarnabhumi airport (currently not under blockade) and catch a flight to Nicaragua or Montenegro. You will find him there. Make sure to wear red and wave a foot clapper, otherwise he might mistake you for The Evil and let his bodyguards loose on you

Good luck

Thanh

[Siripon]

The redshirts are desperate, they claim Aphisit was not in the car at the Interior Ministry. So they were stupid vandals for attacking an empty car apart from the driver. If he was in the car they're guilty of serious assault. Either way they have no defence,especially now the police have found some of the attackers. Desperate indeed.

[kimincm]

Actually i start to believe that you two are the same person. So much BS just can't be made up by two at the same time.

Thanh

Nice one Thanh, I couldn't work out who to have a go at so I just gave up.I was leaning towards Koo,because if her blinkered,Philistine,pig ignorant attitude is representative of the Red Rabble,Thai's up to it's neck in it.

[Koo82]

The redshirts are desperate, they claim Aphisit was not in the car at the Interior Ministry. So they were stupid vandals for attacking an empty car apart from the driver. If he was in the car they're guilty of serious assault. Either way they have no defence,especially now the police have found some of the attackers. Desperate indeed.

Why did Abhisit's people said he was in the car?

[DaleBlue]

The redshirts are desperate, they claim Aphisit was not in the car at the Interior Ministry. So they were stupid vandals for attacking an empty car apart from the driver. If he was in the car they're guilty of serious assault. Either way they have no defence,especially now the police have found some of the attackers. Desperate indeed.

Why did Abhisit's people said he was in the car?

Both sides cannot tell the truth at the same time. At least one side must be be telling porkies.

[TAWP]

The redshirts are desperate, they claim Aphisit was not in the car at the Interior Ministry. So they were stupid vandals for attacking an empty car apart from the driver. If he was in the car they're guilty of serious assault. Either way they have no defence,especially now the police have found some of the attackers. Desperate indeed.

Why did Abhisit's people said he was in the car?

Both sides cannot tell the truth at the same time. At least one side must be be telling porkies.

And only one side attacked with the intent to kill the current PM...