I fail to see how pointing fingers 20 years on achieves anything. IMO this should be a time for rememberance and not bickering... carry on.

Indeed it is a time for remembrance, sadly a few people use it at an excuse to tittle tattle and talk about things far removed from the evidence gathered, trust me, as a scouser and ex police I know the ins and outs of Hillsborough and Heysel backwards James and I will sit and discuss it with anyone who has even half a clue what actually happened rather than the old 'oh its scousers therefore it must be hooligan related', and to be fair Liverpool supporters have never been anywhere near as bad as many others, not the worst and not the best behaved.

I have thrown a few insults in here, I don't like to do that, but all are warranted

mick, there is no need to have differing thoughts on why it happened, we all know why it happened, the report states why it happened, you seem to have differing thoughts against the official findings which is why your thoughts are seen for what they are, pointless and aimed at insult and disrespect. You also liken it Heysel, chalk and cheese.

lets hope this is the end of it, it's an emotive issue for many people and to get someone who does not appear to be in possession of the facts and disputing the official findings can lead to annoyance.

mick, there is no need to have differing thoughts on why it happened, we all know why it happened, the report states why it happened, you seem to have differing thoughts against the official findings which is why your thoughts are seen for what they are, pointless and aimed at insult and disrespect. You also liken it Heysel, chalk and cheese.

lets hope this is the end of it, it's an emotive issue for many people and to get someone who does not appear to be in possession of the facts and disputing the official findings can lead to annoyance.

well said, agree 100%.

Check the news today, looks like perhaps justice has a chance of being served.

guys....

I try not to MOD the footie forum, as JS is much more capable of it.

but assuming hes not online as much recently, and given Ive only looked at this thread now

Ive split the thread into a new one (if you'd like different title for any of the 2 threads let me know....and ill see what i can do

please send me a PM as not always online

also Ive deleted some posts, and edited others that quoted them. so you may find that some posts are missing and not in either of the threads. do not be baffled.

lets keep it respectful and civil.

cheers

guys....

I try not to MOD the footie forum, as JS is much more capable of it.

but assuming hes not online as much recently, and given Ive only looked at this thread now

Ive split the thread into a new one (if you'd like different title for any of the 2 threads let me know....and ill see what i can do

please send me a PM as not always online

also Ive deleted some posts, and edited others that quoted them. so you may find that some posts are missing and not in either of the threads. do not be baffled.

lets keep it respectful and civil.

cheers

Thanks for your much appreciated moderation and judgement which i for one desperately needed to happen, mod wise you have paid much respect to those who diedwith your sensitive intervention

Respect will and should always be the priority of all of us for the victims and their loved ones left behind.

RIP 96, you will never be forgotten

SM

The Star Date: 27 April 2009

Disaster cop 'bullied' into changing statement

A POLICEWOMAN who attended the Hillsborough Disaster claims she was bullied into changing her statement in a huge police cover-up.

Special Constable Debra Martin is the first officer to admit changing a statement - 20 years after 96 LIverpool fans died in a massive crush at Sheffield Wednesday's ground.

Ms Martin made a statement telling how a 15-year-old Liverpool fan died her arms at 3.55pm.

But she claims she was branded a "liar" and forced her to change the time in her account to 3.15pm - to hide the fact he could have been saved.

Coroner Dr Stefan Popper brought in a cut-off point at the inquest, ruling all victims were dead by 3.15pm.

But Ms Martin says a teenager Kevin Williams was still alive 40 minutes later.

Ms Martin, 45, a dental nurse, is believed to be among at least 12 officers who it is claimed was ordered to change their initial statements.

The policewoman was in the Leppings Lane End when the crush began on April 15, 1989.

The Star Date: 27 April 2009

Disaster cop 'bullied' into changing statement

A POLICEWOMAN who attended the Hillsborough Disaster claims she was bullied into changing her statement in a huge police cover-up.

Special Constable Debra Martin is the first officer to admit changing a statement - 20 years after 96 LIverpool fans died in a massive crush at Sheffield Wednesday's ground.

Ms Martin made a statement telling how a 15-year-old Liverpool fan died her arms at 3.55pm.

But she claims she was branded a "liar" and forced her to change the time in her account to 3.15pm - to hide the fact he could have been saved.

Coroner Dr Stefan Popper brought in a cut-off point at the inquest, ruling all victims were dead by 3.15pm.

But Ms Martin says a teenager Kevin Williams was still alive 40 minutes later.

Ms Martin, 45, a dental nurse, is believed to be among at least 12 officers who it is claimed was ordered to change their initial statements.

The policewoman was in the Leppings Lane End when the crush began on April 15, 1989.

I read the follow up inquiry in 1997 by justice stuart smith who reveiwed the evidence presented after tv documentairies and claims on behalf of the victims families.

In summary justice smith took the police womans side as more believeable.

This poor Ms Martin unfortunately was totally discredited as a reliable witness, dont know if it was the events of the day that affected her. I will look for and post details of this.

The Star Date: 27 April 2009

Disaster cop 'bullied' into changing statement

A POLICEWOMAN who attended the Hillsborough Disaster claims she was bullied into changing her statement in a huge police cover-up.

Special Constable Debra Martin is the first officer to admit changing a statement - 20 years after 96 LIverpool fans died in a massive crush at Sheffield Wednesday's ground.

Ms Martin made a statement telling how a 15-year-old Liverpool fan died her arms at 3.55pm.

But she claims she was branded a "liar" and forced her to change the time in her account to 3.15pm - to hide the fact he could have been saved.

Coroner Dr Stefan Popper brought in a cut-off point at the inquest, ruling all victims were dead by 3.15pm.

But Ms Martin says a teenager Kevin Williams was still alive 40 minutes later.

Ms Martin, 45, a dental nurse, is believed to be among at least 12 officers who it is claimed was ordered to change their initial statements.

The policewoman was in the Leppings Lane End when the crush began on April 15, 1989.

curious as to why you put the word 'claims' in red. don't you believe her or something?

The Star Date: 27 April 2009

Disaster cop 'bullied' into changing statement

A POLICEWOMAN who attended the Hillsborough Disaster claims she was bullied into changing her statement in a huge police cover-up.

Special Constable Debra Martin is the first officer to admit changing a statement - 20 years after 96 LIverpool fans died in a massive crush at Sheffield Wednesday's ground.

Ms Martin made a statement telling how a 15-year-old Liverpool fan died her arms at 3.55pm.

But she claims she was branded a "liar" and forced her to change the time in her account to 3.15pm - to hide the fact he could have been saved.

Coroner Dr Stefan Popper brought in a cut-off point at the inquest, ruling all victims were dead by 3.15pm.

But Ms Martin says a teenager Kevin Williams was still alive 40 minutes later.

Ms Martin, 45, a dental nurse, is believed to be among at least 12 officers who it is claimed was ordered to change their initial statements.

The policewoman was in the Leppings Lane End when the crush began on April 15, 1989.

curious as to why you put the word 'claims' in red. don't you believe her or something?

Oh dearrrrrrrrrrrrrr Stevie

It is highlighted in red to show it has yet to be made fact, as far the bold, it highlights the significance of what her statement contains and implies re one of the ongoing complaints relating to time...3.15 as against 3.55

P.S.

I would have put it in the discussion thread had i intended my post to highlight something as dishonourable as you are maybe suggesting.

As this was split from the other half of the thread, out of respect, may i suggest you respect inclusions like this one as genuinely offered just as it mine was intended.