Conned By English Couple

[LivinginKata]

Never mind the furniture, when you buy the land, the land office don't even care if there is a building on it, other than increase in value = more transfer tax.

[philo]

Stupid, me thinks. Buy a strawmat, a fan, a mosquito net and 10 Baht of sticky rice. Why would anyone go to a3 rd world country and be upset about 2nd hand furniture. May be the man is Thai ...

[LivinginKata]

Stupid, me thinks. Buy a strawmat, a fan, a mosquito net and 10 Baht of sticky rice. Why would anyone go to a3 rd world country and be upset about 2nd hand furniture. May be the man is Thai ...

Sorry, you lost me there. And your point is ..... ??

[chickencurry]

There's no House Contents Form in Thailand. As far as the Land Registry is concerned the transaction concerns the land/house only. Thai law doesn't give a flying duck about 'furniture', which to most Thais, is a relatively new concept, hence it's being so outrageously expensive here. You're not in the UK now, so why do so many of you bring your preconceptions with you? The Seller can take whatever they like, including stripping the garden, if you're not present during the handover. So you really should have done your homework first. Sure, go to a lawyer, he'll take a few thousand off you and laugh behind your back.

All you newcomers, do do your homework before any transaction here, I know it takes a little more time and effort, but worth it in the long run.

What a very odd posting. What's that supposed to mean "no House Contents Form"? We bought our home WITH furniture, all legally done and know of others who have done so.

[Marksamui]

When I brought my house (which was new) the offer was either furniture or a free kitchen.

All in the contract and perfectly legal, although I think it was a separate contract, not sure to be honest, have to ask the wife.

Anyway of course you can have a contract and legally purchase furniture, and why would it be anything to do with the Land Registry? It is a furniture purchase.....!

[LivinginKata]

There's no House Contents Form in Thailand. As far as the Land Registry is concerned the transaction concerns the land/house only. Thai law doesn't give a flying duck about 'furniture', which to most Thais, is a relatively new concept, hence it's being so outrageously expensive here. You're not in the UK now, so why do so many of you bring your preconceptions with you? The Seller can take whatever they like, including stripping the garden, if you're not present during the handover. So you really should have done your homework first. Sure, go to a lawyer, he'll take a few thousand off you and laugh behind your back.

All you newcomers, do do your homework before any transaction here, I know it takes a little more time and effort, but worth it in the long run.

What a very odd posting. What's that supposed to mean "no House Contents Form"? We bought our home WITH furniture, all legally done and know of others who have done so.

The land transfer at the land office takes no account of building and furniture/contents. A 'side' contract between the seller and buyer can detail furniture and contents, but that has nothing to do with the land registry office. If the seller did not leave the agreed furniture/contents, then the buyer would have to sue the seller through civil court, and that takes a long long time, and a lot of legal fees.

[Tiggy]

I am the wife of Cyprus 1951 and would just like to thank all those who responded with good advice and kind words.

We did all we could to ensure a successful transaction. The handover was to be overseen by our lawyer but the pair scarpered before the hand over date.

All contents were documented and videoed inside and outside with close up photographs too. We even have photos of the infamous couple.

They had planned this, it transpires that they had been shipping stuff up to Chang Mai on the back of his Hilux truck for a few weeks. A neighbour even challenged them and they lied saying we had agreed they could take the stuff. The neighbour was Thai and didn't have our contact details.

There are ways of tracing them and our lawyer is in the process of doing this.

We came out to stay in our house and get it decorated and ready for rental. We couldn't even stay in it which was pretty sad.

Anyway, we will not be beaten. As they say 'what goes around - comes around'

Tiggy

[LivinginKata]

We did all we could to ensure a successful transaction. The handover was to be overseen by our lawyer but the pair scarpered before the hand over date.

Hi there Tiggy. But surely no final payment would be made until the handover of ownership & keys. That's the usual method to prevent what happened to you...

[Tiggy]

Hi, no we we completed the transaction at Christmas and they were renting it from us till April. 

Tiggy

[LivinginKata]

Hi, no we we completed the transaction at Christmas and they were renting it from us till April.

Tiggy

So, the renters stole the furniture. It's a criminal case. File a police report and go after them. They are in a heap of trouble.

[madjbs]

Set up a separate website with your story clearly explained and a photo of the thieves.

Maybe somebody will know where they are and then you can get the police to act upon your report easier.

[Sir Burr]

Or, they, or one of their friends sees it; warns them and they scarper. Not a good idea.

[Cyprus1951]

Set up a separate website with your story clearly explained and a photo of the thieves.

Maybe somebody will know where they are and then you can get the police to act upon your report easier.

We have done that,(http://web.me.com/cyprus_online/Site_3/Welcome.html) it is now with the police so we can only hope.

[thaiwanderer]

Cyprus and Tiggy - i see you appear to be in the real estate business so am a little surprised at your mistakes - nevermind lesson learned etc.

if you wish to pursue them can do via police or 'other avenues' but you may well not get anywhere near complete financial restitution

if you want to go down that route think of it as revenge and if that is what you want go for it

personally i would not be bothered and rely on karma - each to their own

however i would be more concerned at checking you have good title for the land and house without relying on your present lawyer

good luck

[PoorSucker]

Have you tried to post in the Chiang Mai forum?

[Tiggy]

Thaiwander, call it what it is - theft of our property. I am a believer in Karma too but maybe someone on the Changmai forum will recognise them and PM us.

Yes we have a marketing business in property  and we did as much due diligence as we could. But if a thief is going to steal then he will find a way to do it - due diligence or not.

Tiggy

[Cyprus1951]

Cyprus and Tiggy - i see you appear to be in the real estate business so am a little surprised at your mistakes - nevermind lesson learned etc.

if you wish to pursue them can do via police or 'other avenues' but you may well not get anywhere near complete financial restitution

if you want to go down that route think of it as revenge and if that is what you want go for it

personally i would not be bothered and rely on karma - each to their own

however i would be more concerned at checking you have good title for the land and house without relying on your present lawyer

good luck

We have checked out the title independently and all is in order. We have also posted on the Chang Mai forum. The link we posted however has been amended to http://web.me.com/cyprus_online/Site_3/Simpsons.html

[getgoin]

All contents were documented and videoed inside and outside with close up photographs too. We even have photos of the infamous couple.

They had planned this, it transpires that they had been shipping stuff up to Chang Mai on the back of his Hilux truck for a few weeks. A neighbour even challenged them and they lied saying we had agreed they could take the stuff. The neighbour was Thai and didn't have our contact details.

Tiggy

Sure the neighbor or gardener didn't steal it? Maybe they stole it together? Why would they ask the previous owners why they were taking their belongings out of their house? Maybe the lawyer stole it, using the gardener and moved everything inside the neighbor's house?

I bought a country house and it came with a lot of furniture. A week later when we went back up there the caretaker told me the old owner took everything out when they moved. I asked the old owner about it and they said they didn't take anything out. I believed the caretaker and just chalked it up to my bad luck. Later, about 6 months later, I find out the caretakers stole everything and sold it.

Sure the old owner took it?

[pagallim]

Perhaps taking a different tack. Prior to coming to Thailand some 2 years ago, I was resident in Spain for 10 years. I lived in a very rural area, and made a lot of good friends, primarily Spanish. As I was fairly independent and reasonably compus mentus, I didn't have to rely too much on the 'good advice' primarily administered from local bars from 'local expat experts'. I watched with anguish the trials and tribulations of newcomers, listening to these 'expert' expats, most of whom were taking a commission from who's ever services they were directing the ignorant newcomers to. It taught me a valuable lesson, in that because you're in a strange country, don't think for one minute that everyone who speaks your language is your friend, and that they are far more likely to take advantage of you than the locals. Having said that, and read the history of events of the OP, I believe that they were successfully conned by individuals, as most of would have been. When I bought my house here, similar to the OP, I let the sellers remain in the house for a couple of months, as 1. I wasn't ready to move in, 2. their house wasn't ready for their move, and 3. they were (and are) a very nice couple. It could have all come to grief, however, the integrity of the couple, and our mutual goodwill, meant there was no hassle and we both gained through trust.

[thaiwanderer]

Thaiwander, call it what it is - theft of our property. I am a believer in Karma too but maybe someone on the Changmai forum will recognise them and PM us.

Yes we have a marketing business in property and we did as much due diligence as we could. But if a thief is going to steal then he will find a way to do it - due diligence or not.

Tiggy

point taken and good luck as i said before but it does not appear they needed to 'find a way' - they had an inclination and or saw the opportunity because you did not take the necessary precautions

due dilligence is not just a paper exercise

good luck with it however you proceed from here

[chickencurry]

Perhaps taking a different tack. Prior to coming to Thailand some 2 years ago, I was resident in Spain for 10 years. I lived in a very rural area, and made a lot of good friends, primarily Spanish. As I was fairly independent and reasonably compus mentus, I didn't have to rely too much on the 'good advice' primarily administered from local bars from 'local expat experts'. I watched with anguish the trials and tribulations of newcomers, listening to these 'expert' expats, most of whom were taking a commission from who's ever services they were directing the ignorant newcomers to. It taught me a valuable lesson, in that because you're in a strange country, don't think for one minute that everyone who speaks your language is your friend, and that they are far more likely to take advantage of you than the locals. Having said that, and read the history of events of the OP, I believe that they were successfully conned by individuals, as most of would have been. When I bought my house here, similar to the OP, I let the sellers remain in the house for a couple of months, as 1. I wasn't ready to move in, 2. their house wasn't ready for their move, and 3. they were (and are) a very nice couple. It could have all come to grief, however, the integrity of the couple, and our mutual goodwill, meant there was no hassle and we both gained through trust.

Very well put.

And might I say in addition, it seems to me there are currently more dangers out there (cheats, con artists etc) due to the recession. I have friends in various countries all reporting increases in crime. It's not just Thailand. Dark days at the moment.