Pad Leader Sondhi Limthongkul Shot

[mauGR1]

Democracy is something worth dying for.

It is unfortunate that Sondhi is not dead yet.

It is fine that everybody can have freedom of speech,some good people have died for it.It's a pity that someone don't know how to use the right of speech.

[Thai at Heart]

Perhaps Abhisit is simply buying time - all talk and no action.

Amnesty will not have a life of its own, it's tied up with const amendments and Abhisit gave a two week deadline for proposals without actually committing to anything. He might throw most of them out of the window and set some sort of a committee that would take forever to achieve anyting, and then there's public input and so on.

Watching the joint parliament-senate debate might give some clues as to where all the factions stand and the kind of timeframe we are looking at.

Actually it feels like Abhisit must do something for Reconciliation TM but he has no idea what, so he sent out feelers. This indeciveness was immediately capitalised on by PTP who are all over the media with their own ideas and they excude a lot of confidence that they will get what they want.

Personally Abhisit did very well with the riots, but he also probably realised that he was betrayed by Anupong and possibly even Suthep. He sidelined them, and the police, but once the upcountry troops leave Bangkok - who's going to watch his back? He still works out of a bunker somewhere. He has full public support but that doesn't immediately translate into security.

I think "full public support" needs a lot of elaboration also. Not that they matter anyway.

[samgrowth]

[hate-mongering comments deleted]

[sriracha john]

and the blathering continues....

[Scrubber]

Just saw on the news that some of the empty bullet cartridges found at the seen were stamped with the Royal Thai Army's mark.

[samgrowth]

Peace is something worth living for.

It is fortunate that Sondhi is still alive.

[Plus]

Perhaps Abhisit is simply buying time - all talk and no action.

Amnesty will not have a life of its own, it's tied up with const amendments and Abhisit gave a two week deadline for proposals without actually committing to anything. He might throw most of them out of the window and set some sort of a committee that would take forever to achieve anyting, and then there's public input and so on.

Watching the joint parliament-senate debate might give some clues as to where all the factions stand and the kind of timeframe we are looking at.

Actually it feels like Abhisit must do something for Reconciliation TM but he has no idea what, so he sent out feelers. This indeciveness was immediately capitalised on by PTP who are all over the media with their own ideas and they excude a lot of confidence that they will get what they want.

Personally Abhisit did very well with the riots, but he also probably realised that he was betrayed by Anupong and possibly even Suthep. He sidelined them, and the police, but once the upcountry troops leave Bangkok - who's going to watch his back? He still works out of a bunker somewhere. He has full public support but that doesn't immediately translate into security.

I think "full public support" needs a lot of elaboration also. Not that they matter anyway.

You need a professionally done poll, run by a reputable western agency, to convince you that his dealing with riots won him public approval?

[siamjj]

Army bullets used in Sondhi attack

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 23/04/2009 at 09:39 AM

Army chief Anupong Paojinda has admitted the M16 rifle shells found at the scene of teh attack on People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leader Sondhi Limthongkul were from the army'a arsenal.

The bullets were issued to the 9th Infantry Division, which is under the First Army Region, he said.

Gen Anupong said the rounds were from stores used for shooting practice.

It would be very difficult for investigators to narrow down which unit of the division the ammunition actually came from.

It was also possible the bullets were obtained illegally from the division, he said.

[hammered]

Isnt the 9th Infantry based at Kanchanaburi? Please correct me if wrong.

Edited to add: it really looks like Abhisit has to pull a military reshuffle if he wants to survive. Question is he in a position strong enough to do so, or is it so strong that rogue elements will come back on board?

Edited April 23, 2009 by hammered

[cmsally]

Isnt the 9th Infantry based at Kanchanaburi? Please correct me if wrong.

Edited to add: it really looks like Abhisit has to pull a military reshuffle if he wants to survive. Question is he in a position strong enough to do so, or is it so strong that rogue elements will come back on board?

Yes, you are correct they are based in Kanchanaburi.

9th division are close to Gen. Sonthi and were mobilised in the 2006 coup.

Asia Times - Coup of 2006

[sriracha john]

Police Find Eyewitness in Sondhi's Assassination Case

Police have an eyewitness in the attempted assassination on a People's Alliance for Democracy key figure and have revealed details of the bullets they found at the scene.

The police team tasked with solving the case of the attempted assassination of People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD key leader and media mogul, Sondhi Limthongkul, report that their investigation has revealed that three 5.56 millimetre M16 bullet shells were found at the scene.

Two of the three shells are stamped with acronym RTA, which stands for Royal Thai Army, indicating that they were produced by the Army's ordnance division. This particular kind of bullet is supplied to a specific branch in the Army.

Additionally, the three M16 bullets are believed to have been discharged from an M203 rifle, which is an M16 with the M79 grenade launcher.

Police are assuming that the gunman didn't intend to fire the M16 to kill Sondhi, but were going to drop a bomb onto his van.

Given that so few M16 bullets were found, the police believe they were accidentally fired.

In addition to M16 bullets, the police also found dozens of AK shells but couldn't identify their origins as this type of bullet is not used by any Thai public agency.

The police believed the AK rifle was used as the main weapon, given its high penetration power. To track down the gun's origin would be difficult as this type of gun can be easily acquired at the borders between Thailand and neighbouring countries.

Besides two witnesses who were working at the nearby gas station at the time the incident took place, the police have found a material witness who is said to have seen the entire attempted assassination. The assassin is said to have fired at the witness, but the witness managed to dodge the bullets. The witness is under protection of the city police.

- TOC / 2009-04-23

Edited April 23, 2009 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Isnt the 9th Infantry based at Kanchanaburi? Please correct me if wrong.

Edited to add: it really looks like Abhisit has to pull a military reshuffle if he wants to survive. Question is he in a position strong enough to do so, or is it so strong that rogue elements will come back on board?

Yes, you are correct they are based in Kanchanaburi.

9th division are close to Gen. Sonthi and were mobilised in the 2006 coup.

Asia Times - Coup of 2006

Gen Sonthi was also the first person to ever propose an amnesty. There are all kinds of byzantine connections and things that dont make much sense concerning units based in Kanchanburi and power players other than our coup leader as well. All roads lead to the Kanchanburi maze on this one.

[cmsally]

Given that so few M16 bullets were found, the police believe they were accidentally fired.

In addition to M16 bullets, the police also found dozens of AK shells but couldn't identify their origins as this type of bullet is not used by any Thai public agency.

The police believed the AK rifle was used as the main weapon, given its high penetration power. To track down the gun's origin would be difficult as this type of gun can be easily acquired at the borders between Thailand and neighbouring countries.

Quote from post above.

Funny that the M16 bullets are not seen as the culprit now they can be traced. AK shells from border areas - whoops what a coincidence, Kanchanaburi is on the border!

I guess one of the clumsy perpetrators fired his M16 by mistake.

I wonder if we ever see that witness again

[hammered]

Given that so few M16 bullets were found, the police believe they were accidentally fired.

In addition to M16 bullets, the police also found dozens of AK shells but couldn't identify their origins as this type of bullet is not used by any Thai public agency.

The police believed the AK rifle was used as the main weapon, given its high penetration power. To track down the gun's origin would be difficult as this type of gun can be easily acquired at the borders between Thailand and neighbouring countries.

Quote from post above.

Funny that the M16 bullets are not seen as the culprit now they can be traced. AK shells from border areas - whoops what a coincidence, Kanchanaburi is on the border!

I guess one of the clumsy perpetrators fired his M16 by mistake.

I wonder if we ever see that witness again

I did read one or two reports that mentioned Sondhi's bodyguards engaged the assasins in gun fire. Maybe the M16 was only being used to fight off these annoyances.

Curiouser and curiouser. It seems nobody wants to accuse the er powerful ones. Cant wait for Sondhi to get out of hospital. Whatever his politcs he is a loose cannon and not afraid to speak his mind or afraid of who he upsets.

[Plus]

He doesn't have much credibility here and he is in a unique position to accuse anyone he doesn't like without any proof.

Speculating is pointless, there's no chance the case will be solved, ever. Even if it will be, forget about prosecuting the culprits, any discrepance in witness testimonies and they walk free. Who thinks that masterminds will be exposed?

[hammered]

He doesn't have much credibility here and he is in a unique position to accuse anyone he doesn't like without any proof.

Speculating is pointless, there's no chance the case will be solved, ever. Even if it will be, forget about prosecuting the culprits, any discrepance in witness testimonies and they walk free. Who thinks that masterminds will be exposed?

Of course it will never be solved and the masterminds willnever be hunted down. However, it will in its own way play out and strengthen and weaken certain players positions.

[Samuian]

Hopefully "the only eyewitness" doesn't attract Ebola or some chicken flu whilst in "protective custody"

[sriracha john]

Given that so few M16 bullets were found, the police believe they were accidentally fired.

In addition to M16 bullets, the police also found dozens of AK shells but couldn't identify their origins as this type of bullet is not used by any Thai public agency.

The police believed the AK rifle was used as the main weapon, given its high penetration power. To track down the gun's origin would be difficult as this type of gun can be easily acquired at the borders between Thailand and neighbouring countries.

Quote from post above.

Funny that the M16 bullets are not seen as the culprit now they can be traced. AK shells from border areas - whoops what a coincidence, Kanchanaburi is on the border!

I guess one of the clumsy perpetrators fired his M16 by mistake.

I wonder if we ever see that witness again

3 casings from M16 and nearly 100 from AK47... it's no wonder that the police assess that the AK47 was the main weapon used.

The unexploded grenade found on the bus in the area would also tend to back up the theory that the M16 bullets were fired mistakenly, as a clip contains a lot more than 3 bullets and the grenades are fired from the same weapon. The weapon has 2 triggers (one for bullets/one for grenades) and in the hands of someone inexperienced, he/she could have inadvertently pulled the wrong trigger.

Edited April 23, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

it will in its own way play out and strengthen and weaken certain players positions.

I doubt that speculation and rumors about who did what are going to change anything. It's just a feed for low grade journalism, too much ado about nothing.

[sriracha john]

Speculating is pointless, there's no chance the case will be solved, ever. Even if it will be, forget about prosecuting the culprits, any discrepance in witness testimonies and they walk free. Who thinks that masterminds will be exposed?

It will be solved right after the new year's eve bombings of bangkok are solved. Was that two or three new year's eves ago?

[sriracha john]

Hopefully "the only eyewitness" doesn't attract Ebola or some chicken flu whilst in "protective custody"

I'm sure Thai Rath publishing his photo and address and assorted other personal data didn't help his safety any.

Edited April 23, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

The weapon has 2 triggers (one for bullets/one for grenades) and in the hands of someone inexperienced, he/she could have inadvertently pulled the wrong trigger.

Anyone who ever used M16 with a grenade launcher knows that Alternate Fire is usually assigned to right mouse button.

[sriracha john]

The weapon has 2 triggers (one for bullets/one for grenades) and in the hands of someone inexperienced, he/she could have inadvertently pulled the wrong trigger.

Anyone who ever used M16 with a grenade launcher knows that Alternate Fire is usually assigned to right mouse button.

Hard to imagine a gun nut like Sae Daeng not drooling over the opportunity to fire this at a "live human moving target"

M-203

[Samuian]

The weapon has 2 triggers (one for bullets/one for grenades) and in the hands of someone inexperienced, he/she could have inadvertently pulled the wrong trigger.

Anyone who ever used M16 with a grenade launcher knows that Alternate Fire is usually assigned to right mouse button.

Hard to imagine a gun nut like Sae Daeng not drooling over the opportunity to fire this at a "live human moving target"

M-203

What a weapon!

yeah similar thoughts sprung up earlier...Sea Deang.... this assumption maybe after all not that kind of a "far shot"!

What makes me really wonder is, that this was staged either by absolute nutters,

absolute newbies or complete idiots.

Way too many things that could go wrong - have been done wrong!

A grenade which wasn't only launched into the wrong target, but didn't go off!

I wonder if these acts are always carried out by the same team!

Edited April 23, 2009 by Samuian

[samgrowth]

Gen Sonthi killing Sondhi? Not possible.

Kasit already publicly claim that it is the work of Thaksin.

We all know that Kasit is a very close to Sondhi.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSBKK20894

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, who is visiting the United States this week, accused Thaksin of playing a role in the attempt on Sondhi's life.

"Thaksin failed on the populist movement and now I think he has resorted to some sort of assassination attempt," the Bangkok Post quoted Kasit as telling a group in New York.

Kasit, criticised for backing the PAD's occupation of Bangkok's airports last year, gave no evidence to support his claims.

[cmsally]

Gen Sonthi killing Sondhi? Not possible.

Kasit already publicly claim that it is the work of Thaksin.

We all know that Kasit is a very close to Sondhi.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSBKK20894

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, who is visiting the United States this week, accused Thaksin of playing a role in the attempt on Sondhi's life.

"Thaksin failed on the populist movement and now I think he has resorted to some sort of assassination attempt," the Bangkok Post quoted Kasit as telling a group in New York.

Kasit, criticised for backing the PAD's occupation of Bangkok's airports last year, gave no evidence to support his claims.

I hate to disappoint you, but I don't think there are such things in politics as real friends.

You know what the Thais say Peuan gin , peuan dai (they are mostly peaun gin).

[PawyiLee]

3 casings from M16 and nearly 100 from AK47... it's no wonder that the police assess that the AK47 was the main weapon used.

The unexploded grenade found on the bus in the area would also tend to back up the theory that the M16 bullets were fired mistakenly, as a clip contains a lot more than 3 bullets and the grenades are fired from the same weapon. The weapon has 2 triggers (one for bullets/one for grenades) and in the hands of someone inexperienced, he/she could have inadvertently pulled the wrong trigger.

This is good evidence that no competent gunmen were involved, so that narrows it down to army troops.

[HagenvonTronje]

Hard to imagine a gun nut like Sae Daeng not drooling over the opportunity to fire this at a "live human moving target"

What a weapon!

yeah similar thoughts sprung up earlier...Sea Deang.... this assumption maybe after all not that kind of a "far shot"!

What makes me really wonder is, that this was staged either by absolute nutters,

absolute newbies or complete idiots.

Way too many things that could go wrong - have been done wrong!

A grenade which wasn't only launched into the wrong target, but didn't go off!

I wonder if these acts are always carried out by the same team!

mhm, impressive piece of steel.

but any evidence for sae dang involved, despite that this sae dang have some strange humour and like to strike some attitudes?  and once said that he dislike the yellow. many others do that as well. he talked big but that is not seldom and you can hear in thailand from many corners and colours. you do misinterpret him.  is he really scary, does he look like a psycho? he is more like a actor, intentional overacting his 'character' like a comedian, or the typical thai way of playing a role. he do it to ease his message. he writes books and want to sell them, so he presents himself in a colourful way to get attention and the media attention. he plays the folk hero, borrows here and there, a little bit from rambo or the super hero and crime fighter of the 60ies thai cinema Insee Daeng. he creates an image of himself. it's a show, partly. he have some feuds running with corruption in the police force, make that public and point that out. posing for pictures with a gun and mickey mouse and hello kitty toys, it's an eye catcher. on his website he also published a picture of him doing aerobic dance instruction, that means a photoshop job, intend to mock him. but he doesn't complain about, just repost the image. cool. my impression is not that he is a nutter or total crazy. you get there something wrong.

anyway, the news reports on this incident are very poor and changing from day to day, first a pick up truck with gun men, than they have been on a motobike and now again some pick up truck again. anybody can believe that? that BS the Nation and Bangkok Post writing there. they just repeat what some offical told them. and spin propaganda. first sondhi minor injuries, than he is suddendly in serious condition. on ASTV (according to what the 'says my wife' of a TV member had seen -means  i didn't saw it by myself, just read it on TV forum what and other member had written) the was a report that it is not sure if sondhi will survive or not. mhm. maybe just drama and propaganda, make it sound more worse, so sondhi looks more hero. exaggeration. i read only a very vague reports about the nature of his wounds. no further explanation.

and do we as readers don't have some question? questions the journalists also should ask, to give as some good report. why is the story changing? are there really no eye witnesses, the press could find and ask? that corner of town isn't so dead at this time of the day.

and the assassins have been chased away by a second car, sondhis security. and they have been also shooting and following that car. or pick up, or moto bike. shouting gang war style in a residental aera? how many of the cartridge that found on the scene came from their weapons, guns? who are those armed security mens of sondhi? is it allowed to them to carry weapons and follow the assassins, shouting at them even after the situation of self defence was not more given.there was a report of a five minute long shouting. 5 minutes long the assassins shouting at sondhis car and than the security answered shouting back or was there a five minute long gun fight between them?

can that be legal? in bangkok, at the time of a SoE, a civilian person, guarded by armed security. what for qualification you need to make that possible, to have such guards? and isn't sondhi under investigation of terrorism charges? he can still have his "private army". i remember that a security guard at the ASTV station got arrested last year. there was some shooting and as the police arrived, the guard tried to hide or run away and dropped some guns in the river, but he got caught and arrested. this guard didn't had a licence to hold a gun.  but i didn't read any updates or follow ups on that in The Nation or Bangkok Post.

and are there some qualifications, special training of sondhis guards? are they some EX-? ex army, ex police, ex special team? are they professionals? do they have a police record? or is that just wild wild west?

isn't there are investigation about this? if someone shoot at his home at a burglar who tried to attack him or even had attacked family members already, if that person in self defence shoot at the bulgar he has also to face a lot of questions by the police. but in this case not.

and the changing story, that sondhi, injured, told different things, can happen. but his security, they can wield some guns but can not tell a pick-up truck from a motobike?

did nobady else have that or similar questions? instead of posting speculations thaksin must be behind the attack because sondhi is his main enemy. 

thats all very suspicious  for me. and than the poor quality reporting of The Nation and Bangkok Post. makes me not to believe a lot of other stories inthose so called newspapers. like that story that red shirts shooting and assault inncocent residents and killed them. evidence? because someone was wearing a red shirt? could be an agent provocateur. or anybody else. how they can ruled that out without proper investigation? as the team yellow did go after the airport The Nation care fully wrote that men "dressed as" yellow shirts hijacked a bus and it is not sure if they are PAD members or not. but red shirts shoot at innocent residents get in print without a doubt. other media outlets at the same time wrote about of organised attacks by groups of men in civilian clothes on the reds. could have been blue shirts, yellow shirts or camouflage shirts in disguise as residents. why aren't that suspects as well?

such interesting times at the moment, but the coverage by the thai english print media so low quality and also just plain propaganda and BS (in general and not only the sondhi topic), makes me little bit angry. it's sad, a spoiled change by the lazy journalist or lot of pressure and censorship on the media, so that they not dare to write and report better. and i am surprised to see so many westerners ( i assume) take it at face value, without a doubt as prove and truth. don't you want to know more, is such a simplified message campaign enough for you? do you really believe all this, or just just using it as argument to win silly discussion fight with suspected pro thaksin members. lame and boring. and in no way convincing.

i never was a thaksin fan but the situation at the moment and how it is explained to me by the obvious pro-abhisit media, doesn't make me to a fan of the currrent goverment. that is so fishy. some other TV member compare it to the Pravda, i think he is right.

but who is amateurish here? the government and/or people loyal to them think that is a good way to report about the things? or is it the publisher house or the journalists who are amateurish and not able to report proper. so that maybe the govenrment do actually are professional job, but the way it is filtered down by the local english media makes them look silly. or are both, newspaper and goverment, amateurish on different levels. or is this intention by the newspaper, witty people play dumb and do this Pravda style as protest. or is it a surrealistic parody on NotTheNation, like those jokes that comes without a punchline.

[samgrowth]

thats all very suspicious for me. and than the poor quality reporting of The Nation and Bangkok Post. makes me not to believe a lot of other stories inthose so called newspapers. like that story that red shirts shooting and assault inncocent residents and killed them. evidence? because someone was wearing a red shirt? could be an agent provocateur. or anybody else. how they can ruled that out without proper investigation? as the team yellow did go after the airport The Nation care fully wrote that men "dressed as" yellow shirts hijacked a bus and it is not sure if they are PAD members or not. but red shirts shoot at innocent residents get in print without a doubt. other media outlets at the same time wrote about of organised attacks by groups of men in civilian clothes on the reds. could have been blue shirts, yellow shirts or camouflage shirts in disguise as residents. why aren't that suspects as well?

And Elvis is actually Hitler faceoff.

A rapist/muderer/bankrobber goes out to do a job; he has a yellow shirt; it is not sure if he is PAD or not.

A rapist/muderer/bankrobber goes out to do a job; he has a red shirt; it is without doubt he is a UDD.

Edited April 23, 2009 by samgrowth

[HagenvonTronje]

thats all very suspicious for me. and than the poor quality reporting of The Nation and Bangkok Post. makes me not to believe a lot of other stories inthose so called newspapers. like that story that red shirts shooting and assault inncocent residents and killed them. evidence? because someone was wearing a red shirt? could be an agent provocateur. or anybody else. how they can ruled that out without proper investigation? as the team yellow did go after the airport The Nation care fully wrote that men "dressed as" yellow shirts hijacked a bus and it is not sure if they are PAD members or not. but red shirts shoot at innocent residents get in print without a doubt. other media outlets at the same time wrote about of organised attacks by groups of men in civilian clothes on the reds. could have been blue shirts, yellow shirts or camouflage shirts in disguise as residents. why aren't that suspects as well?

And Elvis is actually Hitler faceoff.

A rapist/muderer/bankrobber goes out to do a job; he has a yellow shirt; it is not sure if he is PAD or not.

A rapist/muderer/bankrobber goes out to do a job; he has a red shirt; it is without doubt he is a UDD.

i want to add two link to The Nation:

October 9, 2008: PAD hijacks five buses to beef up security at Gov't House:

The People's Alliance for Democracy has seized five buses since Wednesday's night to turn them into barriers fortifying the security at its main rally site located inside Government House, Bangkok Mass Transit Authority director said....

November 24, 2008: Six men dressed like PAD guards arrested for hijacking bus:

Six men, who were dressed like guards of the People's Alliance for Democracy, were arrested Monday after they seized control of a Bangkok Mass Transit Authority bus. Police said the men were armed with a sawn-off shotgun and knives.

They asked the driver of a No 53 bus to leave and drove it to the Makkhawan Bridge ...

the last 'news' is the one i was talking about. it was the week of PADs final war, PAD allover the city. occupying airports, shouting at people in the streets and so on. and it's not a case of "not sure if PAD or not" is just only dressed us PAD. the possebility that the have been maybe PAD (that was almost for sure) got excluded in the report Nation style.