Tourism Sector Begs End To Emergency Decree

[carson]

Bangkok Swampy was empty compared to other trips almost as empty as my local GM dealership in Dallas (well maybe not that dead).

[jupiler]

"said some five star and super-luxury hotels are seeing only a five per cent occupancy rate"

So for a ***** hotel like Shangrila la with theyr 800 rooms that means.....760 empty rooms!

[h90]

"said some five star and super-luxury hotels are seeing only a five per cent occupancy rate"

So for a ***** hotel like Shangrila la with theyr 800 rooms that means.....760 empty rooms!

anyone know a good deal at a nice beach???

Maybe prices going back to a normal rate again?

[JetsetBkk]

Well, I'm just your average tourist who saves all year for our holiday in Thailand. I had to cancel this year due to the trouble at the airport and 2009 is looking dodgy too!!! When we visited in 2007 we got 70 baht to the £ now it's 50!!!! We find it a struggle all year to save for this and I can assure you the £5400 we spend on getting to Thailand alone (without spending money) is looking very poor value for money at the moment.

5400 quid? Do you travel first class, or are there ten of you?

[spode]

I was to attend a 5-day workshop in Chiang Mai in early May. Attendees from various Asian countries. Those from several countries dropped out a couple days ago, as their countries had official advisories not to travel to Thailand. Perhaps among other things, their insurance would not cover incidents, or maybe their employers would no longer be able to reimburse them for expenses.

The workshop has now been moved to Shenzhen in southern China, and everyone is coming again.

Sad, but completely understandable.

-Spode

[oddziees]

No £5400 is the going rate for 2 adults flying Thai Airways Economy class staying in a Dusit Hotel in Bangkok and Chiang Mai for 18 nights from the U.K. Our rooms will be very nice but they are just ordinary rooms nothing like a suite!!! I don't think we have anything special just our holiday. I know we pay alot and the service is EXCELLENT but I'm sure our lovely hotel staff earn nowhere near the amount we pay per night, criminal really is n't it?

[Oberkommando]

the USA, the world's top and most successful tourism destination.

Eh? France is the World's busiest tourism destination by some margin.

[BigSnake]

Not to worry the Tourists will retune pronto, sorry you got to eat multi Billion baht lost. Good luck, Mr PM and all your cabinet member, keep the government stable and most everything else will fall in place.

[Maejo Man]

the USA, the world's top and most successful tourism destination.

Eh? France is the World's busiest tourism destination by some margin.

They might go there, but they don't seem to spend their money there...

$ in billions 20052006 1. United States$81.8$85.7 2. Spain48.051.1 3. France42.342.9 4. Italy35.438.1 5. China29.333.9 6. United Kingdom30.733.7 7. Germany29.232.8 8. Australia16.917.8 9. Turkey18.216.910. Austria16.016.7

[wotaplonker]

"said some five star and super-luxury hotels are seeing only a five per cent occupancy rate"

So for a ***** hotel like Shangrila la with theyr 800 rooms that means.....760 empty rooms!

anyone know a good deal at a nice beach???

Maybe prices going back to a normal rate again?

well i am going to Phuket late May for 3 weeks to see my 'tilac' is it? i got a return flight to Phuket via Hong Kong for £490 which i thought was pretty good, and i am staying at the Pacific Club on Karon at 1100 per night (2500 in high season) including bfast, and unless all the people who reviewed it are liars is supposed to be a pretty nice place?

[wotaplonker]

right lets get this right, as i am coming over soon, i thought yellow was ok as it is the thai national colour! (i think?) i have been several times to los now i believe wearing yellow is also a mark of respect to his majesty?

i thought not to wear red or blue due to the recent troubles?

shame about the yellow if it is so as i have just shelled out £3.75p on a superb second hand polo shirt on ebay, no really it is very good (cerrutti)

and in superb condition, a real bargain, i got a nice linen shirt as well but that's another story, ooh and a sim card dammit!

Just don't wear an all red or all yellow shirt.

or should i stick to white?

Cheers Wap

[PawyiLee]

...People outside Thailand are now thinking it's not just the brothel of the world but also a banana republic of Asia....

One of the better kept secrets is that Atlanta, Georgia, is the brothel of the world. Another well-kept secret is that bananas evolved here in mainland Southeast Asia, so there are 1000s of varieties, not just the one or two as found in banana republics. For what it's worth, Thailand is a Banana Kingdom.

[WillArzonia]

The policy will be as always, "problem, what problem?" as the government refuse to admit that there is a problem with tourism or that tourism matters anyway. as times and money gets hard landlords will demand more, more businesses decides why bother and more out of work. Just watch, there will not be a problem

They just refuse to admit to any wrongdoing (head in the sand). That is a major problem. You have to understand the nature of a problem to solve it.

Civil war in the streets aside, if Thailand is going to have any hope of restoring tourism it must abrogate the anti-tourism visa rule changes that have taken place over the past 9 years.

Most of the changes were stimulated, not by a need to enhance security (the official explanation), but by a growing xenophobia and misguided emphasis on "quality tourism."

Thaksin was the person behind most of the visa rule changes--even after he "left office."

It is critical for the govt. to stop focusing on quality tourism (a highly offensive phrase) and start focusing on tourism in general: low, middle, high end.

The tourism industry is like a large corporation. In most countries, it is structured to serve all income levels. Certainly this is true in the USA, the world's top and most successful tourism destination.

To take an imaginary example from the corporate world. Toyota manufactures automobiles for low, middle, and high income buyers.

High income buyers make up a small fraction of their sales. Why? Because most people are not rich. The bulk of their sales come from middle and lower income buyers.

So, they wisely target all three income groups: low, middle, and high income. What would happen if an idiot took over and suddenly decided to focus on "quality car buyers?" THEY WOULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

And the same can be said for Thailand's tourism industry. By focusing on high income tourists, it is going out of business (at least a very large segment of it). [The rich will always flock to top hotels in Phuket.]

Prior to TOXIN, the tourism industry was thriving. All tourists were wanted, low, middle, high income. The tourism industry prospered and so did all of the associated industries: hotels, ticket sales, hotel supplies, etc.

And the visa rules fostered tourism. Now they do the opposite.

OK.........enough said. Here come the "hand clappers" and "spin mongers."

The visa rules do not impact ANY regular two week tourists. They only impact repeat, long-stay tourists.

Edited April 18, 2009 by LivinginKata

[Kwic]

My dream is to come to Thailand, but yeah, I would be a bit scared to go now. I know almost no Thai, so it's already confusion, and when you add these clashes between Thai people, it turns out to be even worse

cheers

[stoffel45]

I love Thailand and excepting Taksin and his creatures - I love Thai People.

When I am not in Thailand I am in Belgium. The news on TV and in the Press about Thailand is bad and has been for a long time.

The Belgians are pretty nervous about travelling - but their Foreign Affairs Ministry has issued a Travel Advisory warning.

Which like most other countries who issue these - means that travel insurers will not insure nationals travelling to Thailand. Tour Operators are required to include travel insurance. So their passengers cannot travel.

It could be very expensive to be normally 'brave'.

PM Abhisit has a good chance to make a go of this government.

IF ONLY - the Thai people themselves can refuse the electoral corruption bribes of the PPP - Or TRT and other such creatures - if the could just say NO - they would be greatly admired by all people.

God Bless Thailand

[Lucifer]

I had a friend come visit me and he decided to pay an extra 500 quid to fly back after 2 days instead of the planned 2 weeks.... due to fear.....

Big girls blouse.

[shawndoc]

Well, I'm just your average tourist who saves all year for our holiday in Thailand. I had to cancel this year due to the trouble at the airport and 2009 is looking dodgy too!!! When we visited in 2007 we got 70 baht to the £ now it's 50!!!! We find it a struggle all year to save for this and I can assure you the £5400 we spend on getting to Thailand alone (without spending money) is looking very poor value for money at the moment.

"said some five star and super-luxury hotels are seeing only a five per cent occupancy rate"

So for a ***** hotel like Shangrila la with theyr 800 rooms that means.....760 empty rooms!

anyone know a good deal at a nice beach???

Maybe prices going back to a normal rate again?

well i am going to Phuket late May for 3 weeks to see my 'tilac' is it? i got a return flight to Phuket via Hong Kong for £490 which i thought was pretty good, and i am staying at the Pacific Club on Karon at 1100 per night (2500 in high season) including bfast, and unless all the people who reviewed it are liars is supposed to be a pretty nice place?

I agree £5400 seems way high for 2 for just airfare and mid-low grade hotel rooms. But then I'll never fly Thai Air as they're nearly always double the price for what I can find with other airlines. The only benefit to flying Thai is their direct flights.

As to the Pacific Club, I've never stayed there. But you're going to need a motorbike to get anywhere or do anything. Its kinda remote, located on a hill overlooking a treatment plant. No heading out of the hotel and walking 10 feet to find a street vendor or 7-11. As long as you don't mind that, I'm sure you'll be happy.

[Roadman]

hey guys!

i am coming to thailand on may 1st. i plan to stay there for two weeks. the plan is to stay in bangkok for a couple of days an then head to ao nang, ko lanta and so. with all this political problems there i am not sure what to do. i would appriciate a lot if anyone living in thailand can help me to decide whter or not to go. i understand the riots actually happend on just a few places in the city and that majority of the city was unaffected. but my biggest concern is that is there any real danger of this unrest culminating in some sort of civil war or something like that? how exactly is the situation serious? i'm asking because all this press coverage is not really first hand and you can't be sure what the situation really is like. especially since i was unaware of thailand problems until last week. i heard only nice things about the country and the people, that's why i decided to visit. and by looking at some tourist guides the beauty of thailand is truly breathtaking, but i would really like some info on the safety issue

thanks in advance on your help!

The problems are localized. It is not as though civil war has broken out all over Thailand.......not even close.

Given that they already did the "airport closure thing," I don't think that will happen again.

My best guess is that you will be safe. Just don't wear an all red or all yellow shirt.

Very correct.

You can go straight past inner Bangkok between the two airports and go anywhere you like. The other colour not to wear is Blue...although blue blouses do look pretty

99.99% (give or take a smidgen or two) of the population who do look sort of and behave like normal Thai will be happy yo see you.

[shawndoc]

I had a friend come visit me and he decided to pay an extra 500 quid to fly back after 2 days instead of the planned 2 weeks.... due to fear.....

Remind him next time to check out the hands first. That's going to give away the secret 98% of the time rather than finding out back at the hotel where things can turn ugly.

[geriatrickid]

since you live here and know the situation well enough, and you manage to let him do that, you musta feed some bad shiet to his head.

That's not a fair comment. Many countries have posted travel advisories recommending no travel. I dashed up to BKK with my Thai friend last Saturday because he was worried about his sister that is in uni.

Still a need for emergency decree, this is slowed by not stopped. Someone for your side of the color spectrum tried to kill Sondhi this AM, rather than wait for the courts to grind along.

And your evidence to support this allegation is?????? This is speculation on your part. There are a number of plausible scenarios that point to people other than Thaksin. Leave the speculation for the other more specific thread please.

1. i am coming to thailand on may ..... but i would really like some info on the safety issue

2. £5400 is the going rate for 2 adults flying Thai Airways Economy class staying in a Dusit Hotel in Bangkok and Chiang Mai for 18 nights from the U.K.

Despite all the shootings and turmoil, non implicated foreigners have not been threatened or harmed by the Redshirts. Unlike the PAD anti Thaksin occupation of the airport, foreigners have not been targeted.

The Dusit is indeed an excellent chain. However, I think you are paying way too much. You may wish to consider one of the full service apartment hotels like those managed by the Compass group (e.g. Grand President) The room rates are significantly less than 4 & 5* hotels, yet they deliver the same quality with bigger rooms, daily maid service and excellent dining facilities along with low cost laundry and pools. E.g. I usually book a suite that comes with living room, bedroom, kitchen, and a washing machine/dryer that's 1/2 the price of a Dusit room. All this for a great location on two mass transit routes.

Maybe prices going back to a normal rate again?

Dream on. As occupancy falls, most hotels will increase rates or leave as is. Thai business strategy 101.

[Ricardo]

Still a need for emergency decree, this is slowed by not stopped. Someone for your side of the color spectrum tried to kill Sondhi this AM, rather than wait for the courts to grind along.

And your evidence to support this allegation is?????? This is speculation on your part. There are a number of plausible scenarios that point to people other than Thaksin. Leave the speculation for the other more specific thread please.

Agreed that the identity of the assasins, and their motives, is still speculative, but the attempt to kill a minor figure in the recent drama, still gives an excuse to extend the SoE.

Note also that Senor El Thaksin has yet to condemn the assasination-attempt, or deny that it was anything to do with his supporters, so far as we've heard.

Despite all the shootings and turmoil, non implicated foreigners have not been threatened or harmed by the Redshirts. Unlike the PAD anti Thaksin occupation of the airport, foreigners have not been targeted.

Except perhaps for a number of Heads-of-State and all their aides, trapped in Pattaya, who had to be helicoptered out ? They certainly appeared to feel threatened by the Red-Shirts ! Or was the timing of their early-departure merely coincidental ?

And there might well have been foreigners (such as journalists or residents) who were near the intersection, when the Red-Shirts threatened to blow-up a gas-tanker, might not they too have felt a little threatened by these actions ?

[bungy007]

Well, my guess is they now realize the "mai pen rai" attitude does not work anymore... the world seems to have a different view on that.

I dunno! Each time you think they should get it they still shoot themselves in the foot. How many times have you tried to buy something and been given an extremely grossly inflated price? You counter with a reasonable offer and they refuse so you tell 'em you're going to buy it from another shop as there are loads of shops along the road selling the same stuff and they don't care. You find somewhere else to buy it at the price you want and they've lost yet another sale. I don't think they will ever get it as "mai pen rai" is Thailand's way of not having to deal with anything unpleasant/challenging! They appear to be quite happy to go back to subsistance living.

[bungy007]

probably too little to late. tourism here will be fuct for a while now. a coup, airport closures and the latest protests broadcast all over cnn and bbc showing buses on fire and the military clashing with the protesters. would you come here for a holiday?

Come on, mate, don't blame Thailand for all this - it's because of the Nicaraguans, it's all their fault, they've been plotting something like this for a long time.

I always wondered who those people with little bells on their hats were in chiang mai! so they are Nicaraguans huh?

Yeah, Thais keep banging on about how they've never been conquored but it's happening one passport at a time! What was it some clever Chinaman said? 'A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step'! That's already been taken

[samgrowth]

Sorry, no end of SOE until Thaksin is put in jail. Then Mark will reconsider.

[bungy007]

The policy will be as always, "problem, what problem?" as the government refuse to admit that there is a problem with tourism or that tourism matters anyway. as times and money gets hard landlords will demand more, more businesses decides why bother and more out of work. Just watch, there will not be a problem

They just refuse to admit to any wrongdoing (head in the sand). That is a major problem. You have to understand the nature of a problem to solve it.

Civil war in the streets aside, if Thailand is going to have any hope of restoring tourism it must abrogate the anti-tourism visa rule changes that have taken place over the past 9 years.

Most of the changes were stimulated, not by a need to enhance security (the official explanation), but by a growing xenophobia and misguided emphasis on "quality tourism."

Thaksin was the person behind most of the visa rule changes--even after he "left office."

It is critical for the govt. to stop focusing on quality tourism (a highly offensive phrase) and start focusing on tourism in general: low, middle, high end.

The tourism industry is like a large corporation. In most countries, it is structured to serve all income levels. Certainly this is true in the USA, the world's top and most successful tourism destination.

To take an imaginary example from the corporate world. Toyota manufactures automobiles for low, middle, and high income buyers.

High income buyers make up a small fraction of their sales. Why? Because most people are not rich. The bulk of their sales come from middle and lower income buyers.

So, they wisely target all three income groups: low, middle, and high income. What would happen if an idiot took over and suddenly decided to focus on "quality car buyers?" THEY WOULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

And the same can be said for Thailand's tourism industry. By focusing on high income tourists, it is going out of business (at least a very large segment of it). [The rich will always flock to top hotels in Phuket.]

Prior to TOXIN, the tourism industry was thriving. All tourists were wanted, low, middle, high income. The tourism industry prospered and so did all of the associated industries: hotels, ticket sales, hotel supplies, etc.

And the visa rules fostered tourism. Now they do the opposite.

OK.........enough said. Here come the "hand clappers" and "spin mongers."

Spot on again. I well remember when the cost of any visa transaction was 500bt then yer man Thaksin ratched it up to 1900bt. Ridiculous. We used to be able to live a simple life on some of the best beaches in the world for a very small amount of cash - 80bt a night for a bamboo hut with a proper bed, attached shower and toilet and porch on a beach at Raleigh, Krabi. This layered community with all its colour and attractions has been decimated and replaced by modern hotels/resorts charging 2000bt min per night and the restaurants well out of the price range of the backpacking fraternity which helped to build the area into a world class destination. I wonder how long it will take to come full circle?

[bungy007]

The policy will be as always, "problem, what problem?" as the government refuse to admit that there is a problem with tourism or that tourism matters anyway.

High income buyers make up a small fraction of their sales. Why? Because most people are not rich. The bulk of their sales come from middle and lower income buyers.

So, they wisely target all three income groups: low, middle, and high income. What would happen if an idiot took over and suddenly decided to focus on "quality car buyers?" THEY WOULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

And the same can be said for Thailand's tourism industry. By focusing on high income tourists, it is going out of business (at least a very large segment of it). [The rich will always flock to top hotels in Phuket.]

Is that why the THAI airways flights in Asia now have big empty Business Class sections while they are sold out in Cattle Class? THAI Airways is a good example of expert management. They would rather stop selling seats than to upgrade anyone.

Luxury hotels would rather have empty rooms than offer temporarily lower prices.

this i agree on,,im coming from nz and we have heard that samui is dead empty and resorts are 10% occupancy in some cases yet not one will budge on their prices.. we have seen places charging 10000 baht per night and we have offered them 8000 baht per night if we stay a week and they have all said no, they would rather be empty.

You see! You see! That's what I'm talking about! They'll never get it! They probably see it as a great loss of face to have a full resort when charging 8000bt per night rather than have an empty resort and boast that they charge 10,000bt per night! Oh dear, oh dear oh dear!

[Juily14redux]

<br />

The policy will be as always, "problem, what problem?" as the government refuse to admit that there is a problem with tourism or that tourism matters anyway. <br /><br />High income buyers make up a small fraction of their sales. Why? Because most people are not rich. The bulk of their sales come from middle and lower income buyers. <br /><br />So, they wisely target all three income groups: low, middle, and high income. What would happen if an idiot took over and suddenly decided to focus on "quality car buyers?" THEY WOULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS!<br /><br />And the same can be said for Thailand's tourism industry. By focusing on high income tourists, it is going out of business (at least a very large segment of it). [The rich will always flock to top hotels in Phuket.]

<br /><br />Is that why the THAI airways flights in Asia now have big empty Business Class sections while they are sold out in Cattle Class? THAI Airways is a good example of expert management. They would rather stop selling seats than to upgrade anyone.<br /><br />Luxury hotels would rather have empty rooms than offer temporarily lower prices.<br />

<br /><br />this i agree on,,im coming from nz and we have heard that samui is dead empty and resorts are 10% occupancy in some cases yet not one will budge on their prices.. we have seen places charging 10000 baht per night and we have offered them 8000 baht per night if we stay a week and they have all said no, they would rather be empty.<br />

<br /><br />You see! You see! That's what I'm talking about! They'll never get it! They probably see it as a great loss of face to have a full resort when charging 8000bt per night rather than have an empty resort and boast that they charge 10,000bt per night! Oh dear, oh dear oh dear! <img src="style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Idiots, they are. There is no other word to describ ethem.

[JR Texas]

The policy will be as always, "problem, what problem?" as the government refuse to admit that there is a problem with tourism or that tourism matters anyway. as times and money gets hard landlords will demand more, more businesses decides why bother and more out of work. Just watch, there will not be a problem

They just refuse to admit to any wrongdoing (head in the sand). That is a major problem. You have to understand the nature of a problem to solve it.

Civil war in the streets aside, if Thailand is going to have any hope of restoring tourism it must abrogate the anti-tourism visa rule changes that have taken place over the past 9 years.

Most of the changes were stimulated, not by a need to enhance security (the official explanation), but by a growing xenophobia and misguided emphasis on "quality tourism."

Thaksin was the person behind most of the visa rule changes--even after he "left office."

It is critical for the govt. to stop focusing on quality tourism (a highly offensive phrase) and start focusing on tourism in general: low, middle, high end.

The tourism industry is like a large corporation. In most countries, it is structured to serve all income levels. Certainly this is true in the USA, the world's top and most successful tourism destination.

To take an imaginary example from the corporate world. Toyota manufactures automobiles for low, middle, and high income buyers.

High income buyers make up a small fraction of their sales. Why? Because most people are not rich. The bulk of their sales come from middle and lower income buyers.

So, they wisely target all three income groups: low, middle, and high income. What would happen if an idiot took over and suddenly decided to focus on "quality car buyers?" THEY WOULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

And the same can be said for Thailand's tourism industry. By focusing on high income tourists, it is going out of business (at least a very large segment of it). [The rich will always flock to top hotels in Phuket.]

Prior to TOXIN, the tourism industry was thriving. All tourists were wanted, low, middle, high income. The tourism industry prospered and so did all of the associated industries: hotels, ticket sales, hotel supplies, etc.

And the visa rules fostered tourism. Now they do the opposite.

OK.........enough said. Here come the "hand clappers" and "spin mongers."

Spot on again. I well remember when the cost of any visa transaction was 500bt then yer man Thaksin ratched it up to 1900bt. Ridiculous. We used to be able to live a simple life on some of the best beaches in the world for a very small amount of cash - 80bt a night for a bamboo hut with a proper bed, attached shower and toilet and porch on a beach at Raleigh, Krabi. This layered community with all its colour and attractions has been decimated and replaced by modern hotels/resorts charging 2000bt min per night and the restaurants well out of the price range of the backpacking fraternity which helped to build the area into a world class destination. I wonder how long it will take to come full circle?

One thing about "backpackers".........they often come from middle-class and sometimes even wealth families. They are normally young........on an adventure.

Treat them badly and they return home and tell Mom and Dad and friends DON'T VISIT THAILAND! So M&D and friends don't visit Thailand and spend money at the upscale hotels.

Why can't the people who run the show grasp this?

The tourism policies in most advanced countries are structured to welcome backpackers........Australia and USA are two of many examples. Why? Because it is good business..........it creates wealth.........it creates jobs........etc.

But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........in Thailand backpackers are seen as vermin. Good luck with that policy.

[LawnGnome]

One thing about "backpackers".........they often come from middle-class and sometimes even wealth families. They are normally young........on an adventure.

Treat them badly and they return home and tell Mom and Dad and friends DON'T VISIT THAILAND! So M&D and friends don't visit Thailand and spend money at the upscale hotels.

Why can't the people who run the show grasp this?

The tourism policies in most advanced countries are structured to welcome backpackers........Australia and USA are two of many examples. Why? Because it is good business..........it creates wealth.........it creates jobs........etc.

But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........in Thailand backpackers are seen as vermin. Good luck with that policy.

To be fair, the "backpackers are scum" policy is primarily a Thaksin/TRT/PPP policy. Not sure what the current government's policy is, but since Thaksin has managed to f*** up Thailand so badly, I'd say they will take anybody they can get, and gladly.

[webfact]

One thing about "backpackers".........they often come from middle-class and sometimes even wealth families. They are normally young........on an adventure.

Treat them badly and they return home and tell Mom and Dad and friends DON'T VISIT THAILAND! So M&D and friends don't visit Thailand and spend money at the upscale hotels.

Why can't the people who run the show grasp this?

The tourism policies in most advanced countries are structured to welcome backpackers........Australia and USA are two of many examples. Why? Because it is good business..........it creates wealth.........it creates jobs........etc.

But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........in Thailand backpackers are seen as vermin. Good luck with that policy.

To be fair, the "backpackers are scum" policy is primarily a Thaksin/TRT/PPP policy. Not sure what the current government's policy is, but since Thaksin has managed to f*** up Thailand so badly, I'd say they will take anybody they can get, and gladly.

Will this view and outlook which I agree upon with you, be shared by the head of the Immigration Division as well..?

I got the feeling right now they try their very best to show the opposite attitude.