Moving To Changmai Mai Or Not

[guzzi850m2]

Hallo Changmai People.

I am currently living in Pattaya and been living different places in the Kingdom before that (Phuket-Bkk).

Now my wife is pregnant and I am not sure Pat. is such a good place for a kid to grow up with drugs and crime on the rise and many ding-dong farangs/Thais around.

I am aware of the current crises so crime is proberly on the rise in all of Thailand, has it been noticeably worse in CM?

I been to CM several times and always liked it but a few things have been putting me off:

1: Air pollution, yes I read the topics about it. How many days/year can one expect the air to be bad? It differs from year to year as I understand it and this year has been bad I been told. Is this something that make people move out of the area?

2: A bit boring in the long run? Well I am not so wild as I used to be, and only go out for a beer a couple of times per week so I can life without the "glitter" and go-go's in Pat. (I am married now, he-he). Anybody up there got bored and moved "down" again?

Positive sides:

People are nice in CM I notcied, in Pat. not always so.

I have a house in Pat. but the land is small 72sW, and I always wanted a large garden as things in the tropics are growing app. 10 times faster as in Nord Europa. I have seen in different classified that some Moo bans in CM have estates with + 200 sw. If you want that kind of land in a moo baan in Pat., we are talking big money (which I don't have ). I think I can buy a nice house in CM for 5-7 mill bath close to the city.

Ohh yes: Many Harley riders up there? I love my HD , I am 47 yrs old, and no my wife is not an ex-bar girl.

I am looking forward to your comments, thanks

[IanForbes]

Hallo Changmai People.

I am currently living in Pattaya and been living different places in the Kingdom before that (Phuket-Bkk).

Now my wife is pregnant and I am not sure Pat. is such a good place for a kid to grow up with drugs and crime on the rise and many ding-dong farangs/Thais around.

I am aware of the current crises so crime is proberly on the rise in all of Thailand, has it been noticeably worse in CM?

I been to CM several times and always liked it but a few things have been putting me off:

1: Air pollution, yes I read the topics about it. How many days/year can one expect the air to be bad? It differs from year to year as I understand it and this year has been bad I been told. Is this something that make people move out of the area?

2: A bit boring in the long run? Well I am not so wild as I used to be, and only go out for a beer a couple of times per week so I can life without the "glitter" and go-go's in Pat. (I am married now, he-he). Anybody up there got bored and moved "down" again?

Positive sides:

People are nice in CM I notcied, in Pat. not always so.

I have a house in Pat. but the land is small 72sW, and I always wanted a large garden as things in the tropics are growing app. 10 times faster as in Nord Europa. I have seen in different classified that some Moo bans in CM have estates with + 200 sw. If you want that kind of land in a moo baan in Pat., we are talking big money (which I don't have ). I think I can buy a nice house in CM for 5-7 mill bath close to the city.

Ohh yes: Many Harley riders up there? I love my HD , I am 47 yrs old, and no my wife is not an ex-bar girl.

I am looking forward to your comments, thanks

There is a whole thread devoted to what is good about Chiang Mai. Lots of good information on it. You just have to search for it. You WILL miss the ocean beaches, but for general living I prefer Chiang Mai to Pattaya, or anywhere else in Thailand for that matter. It is probably much safer for raising a family. The air pollution is a seasonal thing that usually only lasts a month. Chiang Mai is an ideal size city for falongs. It has just enough of everything to keep you interested and you can usually find whatever it is you might need. There are enough Thais that speak English in Chiang Mai that you won't get lost.

[venturalaw]

If you live outside of town (10 - 12 minutes), you will avoid some of the pollution during the bad weeks (approx. 4) - not all, but most. People are friendly here, and if you are looking for Harley riders, they are here. I don't ride, but know quite a few who do, so I'm sure if you ride, you'll meet many. Furthermore, there are a number of social networking organizations here - which is how I quickly met many with similar interests.

Lastly, the immigration office in Chiang Mai is quite helpful, friendly, with one moving fairly quickly through the process (depending upon what you are seeking to accomplish) compared to what I have heard about other immigration offices throughout the LOS.

Good luck, and welcome.

Edited April 18, 2009 by venturalaw

[Ricardo]

One minor negative-point or irritant compared to Pattaya, whenever you fly back to Farangland, you have to factor-in time & money for an extra-flight just to get down to Swampy.

But it's still a delightful place to live, certainly (looking ahead) a wide range of schools/prices (this might influence where you chose to live ... centre or north/south-of-town), and the excellent GT-Rider range of maps for motorcyclists !

Perhaps rent your old house out, then rent up here for a year or so, and give it a try ?

[chiang mai]

You are aware of the air quality issue so I will not belabor that point, suffice to say that you should understand the extent of the problem fully before moving there and do not under estimate it.

As for travel to other locations: one of the great things about CM is the downtown location of its airport which makes travel to and fro very easy and painless so this should not be an issue.

I would guess that the biggest adjustment you will need to make is in respect of activities and things to do in general. CM is a very sleepy place by comparison to Pattaya and does not have the same energy or variety of things to do - western restaurants, bars and shops catering to westerners are in abundance in Pattaya but tend to be more sparse in CM. I found that when I lived there I needed to travel to Bangkok or Pattaya about once a month just to wake myself up but there again I am someone who enjoys lively surroundings. But if you don't mind a quiet existence and are family orientated you could do a lot worse than to move to CM, the air quality issue notwithstanding.

[sendbaht]

I can understand why people want to retire to Pattaya, Bangkok, or Phuket, the fun, the ocean, shopping,

but going by personal expierience only me and the wife have retired in CM.

My friends that are in a similar situation live exeptionally well on less Baht per month here and when they want a holiday then they go to Pattaya or Hua Hin. I believe you would be happy here along with your familly.

The reason I could not retire to Pattaya or the like, I would not live long enough to spend my hard earned money.

Welcome to CM if you make it where it seems 150CBR is the bike of choice. (I don't have one yet though)

All joking aside, seen some beautiful Harleys....

[Sansai Sam]

Chiang Mai is what you make it. I find I have zero free time with some event, party, opening or function to go to every day..sometimes two on the same day. Get involved socially and you will have plenty to do.

[Thakkar]

For a family looking for a quiet life, CM is wonderful most of the year. Be prepared to accept the following, though:

Fewer restaurant choices

Fewer shopping choices

Less English spoken, but enough to get buy. Think of it as an opportunity to improve your Thai.

But those are minor gripes compared to four weeks of REALLY bad air, although there are some clear days within those four weeks. Know also that as far as I know, there is no escape from the burning-induced pollution no matter where you live.

Ideally, you could escape for a few weeks of the year, but that will be difficult once your child starts grade school.

The advantages:

Bigger house and garden for the same price (as you've noted).

Better place for kids to grow up.

Cheaper Int'l school fees for comparable schools and with smaller class sizes and teachers who tend to stick around longer.

Better chance of making more genuine friends, whether expats or Thais.

The smiles are more sincere.

I would second the suggestion from Ricardo to rent for a year or two first before buying, if you must buy at all.

Good luck.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Thakkar

[guzzi850m2]

Thanks for the replies so far, pretty much what I had expected regarding life style and so on.

Now the only problem is to talk the wife into it, might be a problem as she is from Isaan and love the beaches very much, and she can't even swim .

I will have to think hard about it before I make my decision, renting a house first might be a good idea to see how the Misses likes it.

Thanks folks.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If you live outside of town (10 - 12 minutes), you will avoid some of the pollution during the bad weeks (approx. 4) - not all, but most.

No, you *won't*. Check the data again, it's a yearly seasonal thing that affects the ENTIRE region. It's NOT city pollution. In fact the very rural province of Mae Hong Son was much worse this year than Chiang Mai.

So you will NOT avoid it, no matter what you do, short of moving to Phuket or Pattaya for the month of March.

That said, I don't think it's that big a deal. But some people are more affected by it than others.

Anyway, a comparison between Patters and Chiang Mai:

Some things are a bit cheaper in Chiang Mai, such as land, houses and rent, some things are a bit more expensive, such as diesel/gasoline. How it will work out in your particular case cost-wise will depend a lot on your lifestyle.

The biggest negatives for Chiang Mai include the following, and note that these will not be negatives to everyone, including myself. I'm merely listing some common viewpoints:

- Abysmal tourist sex scene. Regular Thai nightlife in terms of pubs, clubs and restaurants is probably better than Pattaya though.

- Crap air / air pollution in the month of March, very hot weather in April

- No beach nearby.

To me the biggest negatives for Pattaya inlcude

- So many other Farangs set a really bad example.. You're always treated as 'the tourist' , or as the Farang pervert. Either way an object to be taken advantage of.

- Meeting 'regular' non-working girls may actually be harder because of the stigma related to being seen with a Farang..

- Uncomfortably hot and humid most of the year. Nothing wrong with the air quality though.

- Not much in the way of natural beauty nearby, other than beaches.

- Not much in the way of history or older architecture to be seen.

But I like both. Both are fairly booming towns that are currenlty growing rapidly. I made the choice to live in Chiang Mai and visit Pattaya occasionally.

[IanForbes]

Meeting 'regular' non-working girls may actually be harder because of the stigma related to being seen with a Farang..

You made a good point there. I remember a few years ago at my hotel in Pattaya where I asked the pretty young desk attendent if she wanted to see Koh Larn on her day off. She wanted do and agreed to come with me, but only if we met somewhere that anyone who knew her would not see her with a falong. I had no sexual interest in her other than taking a pretty gal on a nice day to the beach, and we both enjoyed each other's company. She even learned how to swim.

But, this is of no interest to the original poster because he is looking for a nice place to live and not party with the gals.

I think there are enough good places to eat and enough night life to keep most married couples happy in Chiang Mai. It's not that married folks go out every evening, and especially not with children in the mix.

But I like both. Both are fairly booming towns that are currenlty growing rapidly. I made the choice to live in Chiang Mai and visit Pattaya occasionally.

I also like both, but I prefer living in Chiang Mai and visiting my time share in Jomptien as a sort of holiday; even though my whole life is a holiday.

[WaiWai]

Give it a trial some time before your child reaches school age and you have to make serious decisions. Two quick points:

1. How important is a good, reliable home internet connection to you?

We don't all feel completely satisified with internet service in CM.

2. Consider seeing out the pregnancy and infancy elsewhere. In addition to the pollution concerns, it can be quite uncomfortable during the hot months.

Edited April 18, 2009 by WaiWai

[Priceless]

I'll concentrate on your questions about air quality/pollution, since that is what everybody will be expecting from me

Firstly, it is really impossible to answer your question about the number of "bad" days, since that depends on what you personally consider "bad". However, in this reply I'll use the official Thai standard of 120 µg/m³ (the corresponding US standard is 150 µg/m³). A further complication is that there are (as far as I know) no measurements for Pattaya itself. The Pollution Control Department does however publish data for Chon Buri, so I'll include some of those numbers for your comparison.

Secondly, as you very correctly point out, pollution (like the weather) varies wildly between years. What I can give you is two kinds of averages, arithmetic mean and median. As far as number of bad days go, the median is probably more useful for you. Anyway, here are the numbers of bad days for the years 2000-2009:

Chiang Mai: Arithmetic mean 16.9 days/year, median 12.5 days/year

Chon Buri: Arithmetic mean 14.3 days/year, median 9.0 days/year

If (and that is a big IF) the Chon Buri numbers are representative for Pattaya, you can see that there won't be that much difference in the number of "bad" days.

Thirdly, there is another way to measure air pollution levels, which is looking at yearly averages (arithmetic means). For the same time period (2000-2009) this average is 47.7 µg/m³ for Chiang Mai and 56.9 µg/m³ for Chon Buri. Again there is a difference, but in my opinion not really big enough to influence your decision. Furthermore, the high average for Chon Buri is very much influenced by 2007 being such a horrible year with a yearly average of 81.2 µg/m³, compared to "only" 51.5 µg/m³ in Chiang Mai. On the other hand, 2008 was slightly better in Chon Buri (31.5) than in Chiang Mai (38.4).

To conclude: I think you should let factors other than pollution influence your decision. Chiang Mai is a much "sleepier" place than Pattaya, whether that is good or bad is up to you. I am not a rider myself, but all my friends that are tell me that there are wonderful rides all around Chiang Mai. I certainly enjoy touring both CM and neighbouring provinces, though I do it in my car

If you decide to move here, I am sure that you will find that the people of Chiang Mai, locals as well as expats, are a very welcoming lot.

/ Priceless

[THAIPHUKET]

PRICELESS , your statistics are priceless , so to speak. I ve been turned off by the air thing, but I live on Phuket. It is getting too crowed, too farang, too...... many thing. therefore I am contemplating to move too, but where? Air on Phuket is good, area around CM CR much nicer, I am a biker too.

Will fly up on 3 days again and look more intensely, perhaps I can make up my mind, in part thanks to you PRICELESS

[prism]

Guzzi,

I was in the same boat a couple of years ago. I lived in Pattaya, met a girl and eventually she became pregnant (with twins!). We didn't want to raise them in Pattaya either. We moved up to CM when the babies were 3 weeks old. It's much better up here for the following reasons:

1) Housing is cheaper. You can buy a very nice house with lots of land for 5 - 7 million baht.

2) Good selection of restaurants, Thai and Farang.

3) Several grocery stores that sell farang and thai food. (Rimping, better then foodland)

4)There is some nightlife here but it's not the party town that Pattaya is. There are a couple of places where a Harley guy can hang out at.

5) There is a big bike shop where I've seen a couple of Harleys at, in town. I used to be a Harley rider myself before I moved to Thailand. (very sad to give up that bike)

6) Better quality of life here, CM is big enough to have everything you need but it's still manageable.

7) There are several good schools to choose from, international and bilingual.

Things I miss about Pattaya:

1) The beach scene

2) Bangkok Pattaya hospital. Chiang Mai Ram is okay, and I like our Pediatrician there but it's not as nice as BPH. (BPH has some hot looking nurses too)

3) The bar scene, but most of that is behind me now since the twins were born and of coarse, since I got married. Pattaya is still short flight away.

Okay, the air is crap here for a couple of months but it's nice now. Not as many Harley riders here as Pattaya but I've seen a few. Come up here and check it out.

If you need anymore info, PM me. Wish I still had that Harley.

~Stew

[bojo]

Hallo Changmai People.

I am currently living in Pattaya and been living different places in the Kingdom before that (Phuket-Bkk).

Now my wife is pregnant and I am not sure Pat. is such a good place for a kid to grow up with drugs and crime on the rise and many ding-dong farangs/Thais around.

I am aware of the current crises so crime is proberly on the rise in all of Thailand, has it been noticeably worse in CM?

I been to CM several times and always liked it but a few things have been putting me off:

1: Air pollution, yes I read the topics about it. How many days/year can one expect the air to be bad? It differs from year to year as I understand it and this year has been bad I been told. Is this something that make people move out of the area?

2: A bit boring in the long run? Well I am not so wild as I used to be, and only go out for a beer a couple of times per week so I can life without the "glitter" and go-go's in Pat. (I am married now, he-he). Anybody up there got bored and moved "down" again?

Positive sides:

People are nice in CM I notcied, in Pat. not always so.

I have a house in Pat. but the land is small 72sW, and I always wanted a large garden as things in the tropics are growing app. 10 times faster as in Nord Europa. I have seen in different classified that some Moo bans in CM have estates with + 200 sw. If you want that kind of land in a moo baan in Pat., we are talking big money (which I don't have ). I think I can buy a nice house in CM for 5-7 mill bath close to the city.

Ohh yes: Many Harley riders up there? I love my HD , I am 47 yrs old, and no my wife is not an ex-bar girl.

I am looking forward to your comments, thanks

You'll definitely miss the sea, so choose a moo baan with a decent size swimming pool and you'll definitely miss the vibrancy and energy,it's pretty much non existent for foreigners in Chiang Mai, however the same cannot be said for Thai life. The lifestyle here is very different and unless you're ready to retire, it can take alot of getting used to. I moved here 18 months ago with a young child and am the same age as you.I don't know if I would move back down South again since the people are so much more pleasant here but...

The air pollution is a serious problem if you've got kids to consider with their undeveloped lungs etc, however there's no getting around that in any big city.

It's definitely worth a try though, with regular trips down South for a fix you should be OK!

regards Bojo

[guzzi850m2]

Waiwai regarding the Internet, I have exactly the same problem in Pat. I am paying for the fastest conn. I can get but sometimes I can't even download BKK post front page , and complaining to the provider (TOT) many times but no cure so far. I think the whole net in Thailand are completely overloaded.

Priceless, thanks for the info regarding air pollution, very interesting and informative.

Stew thanks for that man, yes I know the shop, something like:Ricks Power Coating, nice guy talked to him once.

Buy a Harley again Stew, you wont regret it, I am a member of HOG Thailand and we go many places all over the country and are getting VIP treatment where ever we go by everybody incl. the police who often waves us over for red light when we thunder through small towns, he he.

Thanks again to everybody

[Ulysses G.]

- Abysmal tourist sex scene.

Maybe compared to Bangkok and Pattaya, but there are 1,000s of venues of all types around town. CM is pretty good compared to lots of other places.

[PeaceBlondie]

There are several good cheap excellent hospitals and clinics here, besides RAM

Many good schools, shops, moobans, etc. Fewer knocking shops, which is good

[chiang mai]

Hmm, two interesting posts back to back!

Totally agree with Peaceblondie in that the hospitals in CM are believed to be some of the best in Thailand, all the major medical training hospitals exist there. CM Ram has always met my needs but I understand there are many more capable layers above that if needed. And,

UG, care to share?

[dave2]

winnie the khwai

Abysmal tourist sex scene!

aggreed .... chiang mai sex scene is abysmall for tourists !

but for people who live here like UG , me and many others

local knowledge of people and places to look for what you like , need or crave for ? (OVER 18S ONLY ) ( some people crave for a soi 6 speciality in pattiya and will never get it in their lifetime ) poor sods ! .... but chiang mai is a whole different ball game ..... if you know where too look !

enjoy ...... dave2

Edited April 18, 2009 by dave2

[sassienie]

Hallo Changmai People.

I am currently living in Pattaya and been living different places in the Kingdom before that (Phuket-Bkk).

Now my wife is pregnant and I am not sure Pat. is such a good place for a kid to grow up with drugs and crime on the rise and many ding-dong farangs/Thais around.

I am aware of the current crises so crime is proberly on the rise in all of Thailand, has it been noticeably worse in CM?

I been to CM several times and always liked it but a few things have been putting me off:

1: Air pollution, yes I read the topics about it. How many days/year can one expect the air to be bad? It differs from year to year as I understand it and this year has been bad I been told. Is this something that make people move out of the area?

2: A bit boring in the long run? Well I am not so wild as I used to be, and only go out for a beer a couple of times per week so I can life without the "glitter" and go-go's in Pat. (I am married now, he-he). Anybody up there got bored and moved "down" again?

Positive sides:

People are nice in CM I notcied, in Pat. not always so.

I have a house in Pat. but the land is small 72sW, and I always wanted a large garden as things in the tropics are growing app. 10 times faster as in Nord Europa. I have seen in different classified that some Moo bans in CM have estates with + 200 sw. If you want that kind of land in a moo baan in Pat., we are talking big money (which I don't have ). I think I can buy a nice house in CM for 5-7 mill bath close to the city.

Ohh yes: Many Harley riders up there? I love my HD , I am 47 yrs old, and no my wife is not an ex-bar girl.

I am looking forward to your comments, thanks

You have answered your own questions and Chiang Mai is still a safe place to live.

That`s it, nothing much else anyone can add.

Now it`s up to you.

[venturalaw]

If you live outside of town (10 - 12 minutes), you will avoid some of the pollution during the bad weeks (approx. 4) - not all, but most.

No, you *won't*. Check the data again, it's a yearly seasonal thing that affects the ENTIRE region. It's NOT city pollution. In fact the very rural province of Mae Hong Son was much worse this year than Chiang Mai.

So you will NOT avoid it, no matter what you do, short of moving to Phuket or Pattaya for the month of March.

That said, I don't think it's that big a deal. But some people are more affected by it than others.

Anyway, a comparison between Patters and Chiang Mai:

Some things are a bit cheaper in Chiang Mai, such as land, houses and rent, some things are a bit more expensive, such as diesel/gasoline. How it will work out in your particular case cost-wise will depend a lot on your lifestyle.

The biggest negatives for Chiang Mai include the following, and note that these will not be negatives to everyone, including myself. I'm merely listing some common viewpoints:

- Abysmal tourist sex scene. Regular Thai nightlife in terms of pubs, clubs and restaurants is probably better than Pattaya though.

- Crap air / air pollution in the month of March, very hot weather in April

- No beach nearby. <img src="http://<URL Automatically Removed>/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

To me the biggest negatives for Pattaya inlcude

- So many other Farangs set a really bad example.. You're always treated as 'the tourist' , or as the Farang pervert. Either way an object to be taken advantage of.

- Meeting 'regular' non-working girls may actually be harder because of the stigma related to being seen with a Farang..

- Uncomfortably hot and humid most of the year. Nothing wrong with the air quality though.

- Not much in the way of natural beauty nearby, other than beaches.

- Not much in the way of history or older architecture to be seen.

But I like both. Both are fairly booming towns that are currenlty growing rapidly. I made the choice to live in Chiang Mai and visit Pattaya occasionally.

If you live further away from the mountains where most of the burning takes place, logic dictates that you avoid most (certainly not all ) of the pollution. We live near Maejo - and the polution was far less than in town near to the mountains. Logic would dictate that this would be the case. The smoke did reach us - but it was limited, and only very bad for approximately one week. That was my experience.

Edited April 19, 2009 by venturalaw

[Ulysses G.]

UG, care to share?

I don't mind at all, but we better stick to PMs.

All of my buddies share tips about where to get the best (traditional, of course) massages and info of this type. The nightery entertainment business in CM changes constantly and it is pretty difficult for us old guys to keep up with everything new without consolidating information.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Wouldn't it be great if there was a forum where we could just share all information on anything.. Kind of awkward to do it in PMs. I'll send you a PM anyway tough.

[IanForbes]

UG, care to share?

I don't mind at all, but we better stick to PMs.

All of my buddies share tips about where to get the best (traditional, of course) massages and info of this type. The nightery entertainment business in CM changes constantly and it is pretty difficult for us old guys to keep up with everything new without consolidating information.

Ahhh, so THAT is how it is done. I've already raised the ire of a few mods and had a thread or two removed.

[Ulysses G.]

There are forums where you can talk about "anything", but they tend to specialize in certain areas that can get pretty boring, pretty fast. Thai Visa is good for what it is.

[IanForbes]

There are forums where you can talk about "anything", but they tend to specialize in certain areas that can get pretty boring, pretty fast. Thai Visa is good for what it is.

Yes, but if you have a weird sense of humour like me there are ways to dance around the rules and still have fun without insulting anyone. You just have to be creative.

You are correct that the unregulated forums tend to go off the rail with low life bashers who want to bring everyone down to their own miserable level.

[Ulysses G.]

In my case, I end up taking a lot of unwanted "vacations".

[venturalaw]

UG, care to share?

I don't mind at all, but we better stick to PMs.

All of my buddies share tips about where to get the best (traditional, of course) massages and info of this type. The nightery entertainment business in CM changes constantly and it is pretty difficult for us old guys to keep up with everything new without consolidating information.

Count me in too UG.