Buy House By Creating A Company

[LivinginKata]

Thanks to everybody for the answer i gonna explore the way for leasing but what happened if i want to sell the house before the 30 years or my thai partner want to sell it?

Need to read you lease contract to see whether you can sell it, and even then you usually need the signature approval of the owner to transfer the lease at the local land office. Also needs a 30 day waiting period for a public notice to be posted in case there are any interested parties. I know, as I've bought an ongoing 30 years, and sold it 4 years later, with no problem. BUT the land owners was a nice old Thai lady, rich enough already, who was married to a German guy, and she was very fair to all the leasees in the housing complex. Not all owners are so nice.....

BTW.. you mention Thai partner. Would that be the owner of the land? You would at the mercy of the land owner. It's a jungle out there ...

[DrDave]

Only if the property was bought after the legal marriage. Then it becomes a communal asset, and the husband is legally entitle to 50% on the sale price. Property bought before marriage, then the husband has no % right.

Correct that if the property was purchased before the marriage, then the husband has no % rights.

But - I believe the same holds true for property bought by the spouse after the marriage. Prior to transferring the land, the foreigner spouse must sign a statement that in effect says that the Thai spouse is using their own money (e.g. pre-marriage assets) to purchase the land, and the foreigner spouse has no financial claim or interest in the land being purchased. In my mind, this document specifically excludes land from communal property, otherwise why would the government require it? At best, the foreigner spouse might be entitled to 50% of any profit resulting from the sale, but I don't think they would be entitled to the full 50% of the sales price.

[LivinginKata]

Can only respond with knowledge on the condo I own. Have a chanote on it and even though it is 10 years old it is in excellent shape.

I find this very interesting as a Chanote is a land title paper. Not a paper for a building. My company and my wife have a number of Chanote paper, so I know what I'm talking about. Given that there are multiple floors in your condo then I fail to understand how any one person on a multilayer apartments can own the land that the building is standing on. I don't doubt that you have some sort of paper, indeed I not long ago talked to a guy buying a condo style apartment in Patong and he stated he would have a Chanote paper. I just don't see how that works.

[LivinginKata]

Correct that if the property was purchased before the marriage, then the husband has no % rights.

But - I believe the same holds true for property bought by the spouse after the marriage. Prior to transferring the land, the foreigner spouse must sign a statement that in effect says that the Thai spouse is using their own money (e.g. pre-marriage assets) to purchase the land, and the foreigner spouse has no financial claim or interest in the land being purchased. In my mind, this document specifically excludes land from communal property, otherwise why would the government require it? At best, the foreigner spouse might be entitled to 50% of any profit resulting from the sale, but I don't think they would be entitled to the full 50% of the sales price.

Dave, this a perplexing subject which I cannot wrap my head around, especially after detailed discussion with my wife and lawyer ...

You have to consider pre & after marriage. You also have to consider whether divorce or death of wife...

Is seems clear (as mud) the land owned before marriage is 100% the wife's if divorce. If death then that's not so clear. Custom in Thailand is that the wife's parents get the child's assets, but the law says (I think ?) the husband gets the wife's assets.

After marriage, then any land/property bought is split 50/50 on divorce. As you point out we foreigners have to sign a document at the land office saying the land was bought with the wife's money, so that's another complication that I have no answer for. In the event of the death of the wife then it's clear (as mud) to me that the communal assets go to the husband, but that old pesky custom of giving to mom & pa gets in the way. If mom & pa are dead then the custom is to divide among the wife's family.

What is very clear to me is that Thai people (my wife or lawyer) are reluctant to discuss this subject with a foreigner, and very clearly (to extreme) think that land in Thailand is only for Thais, and foreigner should have no claim to wife's or even communal marriage land, as foreigners can't own land anyway. I can't get a handle on the legal rights of a foreigner married to a Thai national.

Fortunately I have no practical experience (yet) on this subject. Perhaps a more knowledgeable member would care to comment.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

What is very clear to me is that Thai people (wife or lawyer) are reluctant to discuss this subject with a foreigner, and very clearly (to extreme) think that land in Thailand is only for Thais, and foreigner should have no claim to wife's or even communal marriage land, as foreigners can't own land anyway. I can't get a handle on the legal rights of a foreigner married to a Thai national.

No offense but fortunately what seems very clear for your Thai family doesn't look so clear for all Thai families...

[LivinginKata]

No offense but fortunately what seems very clear for your Thai family doesn't look so clear for all Thai families...

Ok, no offense taken. Please pitch in with why you say that... I'm always on the search for more information on this subject, as many folks ask my opinion in my local area. The more information, the better.

[Kimera]

Correct that if the property was purchased before the marriage, then the husband has no % rights.

But - I believe the same holds true for property bought by the spouse after the marriage. Prior to transferring the land, the foreigner spouse must sign a statement that in effect says that the Thai spouse is using their own money (e.g. pre-marriage assets) to purchase the land, and the foreigner spouse has no financial claim or interest in the land being purchased. In my mind, this document specifically excludes land from communal property, otherwise why would the government require it? At best, the foreigner spouse might be entitled to 50% of any profit resulting from the sale, but I don't think they would be entitled to the full 50% of the sales price.

Dave, this a perplexing subject which I cannot wrap my head around, especially after detailed discussion with my wife and lawyer ...

You have to consider pre & after marriage. You also have to consider whether divorce or death of wife...

Is seems clear (as mud) the land owned before marriage is 100% the wife's if divorce. If death then that's not so clear. Custom in Thailand is that the wife's parents get the child's assets, but the law says (I think ?) the husband gets the wife's assets.

After marriage, then any land/property bought is split 50/50 on divorce. As you point out we foreigners have to sign a document at the land office saying the land was bought with the wife's money, so that's another complication that I have no answer for. In the event of the death of the wife then it's clear (as mud) to me that the communal assets go to the husband, but that old pesky custom of giving to mom & pa gets in the way. If mom & pa are dead then the custom is to divide among the wife's family.

What is very clear to me is that Thai people (wife or lawyer) are reluctant to discuss this subject with a foreigner, and very clearly (to extreme) think that land in Thailand is only for Thais, and foreigner should have no claim to wife's or even communal marriage land, as foreigners can't own land anyway. I can't get a handle on the legal rights of a foreigner married to a Thai national.

Fortunately I have no practical experience (yet) on this subject. Perhaps a more knowledgeable member would care to comment.

Marriage not that important but it does help, it affects other areas and the results adultery etc ! Now if you go to a lawyer and make a contract 50/50 and when you go to gov. office to registar house purchase with your contract AND Thai partner tells them clearly that the money is yours, then you will be given papers to sign, copies passport etc that gives you 50% ( of the value of the property ) if you later have children this % drops. HOWEVER TIT you will need a good lawyer, and if the Ex. wants a fight it will be expensive and prob. not worth while.

The best thing to remember is never spend in Thailand that which you cannot afford to lose

[lioness]

A None Thai can legally own a house in his or her own name, no need for a company, the problem arises in relation to the land.

You can lease the land, some people will tell you not to, but it's your decision not theirs. It's all about what's written into the contracts.

Agreements have to be binding on Heirs and successors for both parties. There are many unscrupulous people out there, as we all know, but there are some genuine ones too. You need a good expat lawyer who specialises in Thai property development, finding the right lawyer could take some doing, it took me a year but was worth the wait. I say Expat as it is easier to deal with someone who thinks like you do and not vice versa.

As for property being too expensive it depends where you buy, get away from the high Farang areas that in itself has pushed the prices up and you will find there are some excellent locations at very reasonable prices.

Perhaps someone could start a poll to get an idea of percentages of owners verses renters.

From a recent post where folks were talking about their homes, it appears that many have opted for ownership rather than rent, my home is my castle and I personally wouldn't rent and be at the mercy of a landlord and paying off someone elses mortgage when I could afford to buy. That's just my personal ideals.

[bonpourlazil]

Hi,

Thanks again for your reply !

What about usufruct compare to a leasing for 30 years?

What is the advantage?

[johnnyk]

Hi,

Thanks again for your reply !

What about usufruct compare to a leasing for 30 years?

What is the advantage?

Use the search engine, lots of info.

[pkrv]

You can legally own a condo without any problem as long as the thai ownership is above 51% of the building.

That's usually a 90 year lease deal. More recently the condo is held by a Thai company, with individual apartment owners have executive director voting rights. Works Ok, but realistically the owners at at the mercy of the 51% Thais. Also these sort of arrangements have high monthly maintenance fees and also the holding company management can charge what they want for electric & water bills. Works well for many owners, good resale potential...

Can only respond with knowledge on the condo I own. Have a chanote on it and even though it is 10 years old it is in excellent shape.

The entire building was painted on the outside and the common area 4 months ago. The maintenance fee is 21Baht per M2 and the

reserve is over 14 million baht. All maintenance payments up to date but on one unit ( it is a 38 unit complex). The manager is very responsive to any problems and has been the manager since the building was initially occupied.

There is a farang on the board and has no problems working with the Thai Board members and getting things done. The electric bill is the same rate as charged by the power company and the water bill is insignificant.

I'm sure this is not typical of many of the condos but pointing out that they do not all have problems, do your homework before you buy.

Did not think I would like living in a condo as I was use to living on acreage. Not willing to do the company of lease method so chose to buy a condo instead, very happy with the decision and quite like the condo living.

'BEENTHEREDONETHAT' is correct most condominiums are owned freehold - in perpertuity, in your own or joint names, and can be passed on to your kids etc - including the land. From all I have seen most condos are well run. Things only get cut off if you don't pay the bills (servive/water/electricity bills) IMO A GOOD THING! And yes water bills are trivial.

[chiangmaibruce]

Perhaps someone could start a poll to get an idea of percentages of owners verses renters.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Farang-Live-...se-t247832.html

[chiangmaibruce]

Is seems clear (as mud) the land owned before marriage is 100% the wife's if divorce. If death then that's not so clear. Custom in Thailand is that the wife's parents get the child's assets, but the law says (I think ?) the husband gets the wife's assets.

<snip>

In the event of the death of the wife then it's clear (as mud) to me that the communal assets go to the husband, but that old pesky custom of giving to mom & pa gets in the way. If mom & pa are dead then the custom is to divide among the wife's family.

Not "custom" - the law. If there is a legal Thai Will leaving the property to the husband then he gets it 100%. But he must sell it to a Thai within one year (if it is land, not a condo). If no Will - and the wife has some family - then the husband gets a %age based on a set formula.

Anyone who wants to get the facts, just type in "making a thai will" into google or yahoo. Much good info available in the web sites of various thai law firms including www.thailawonline.com and www.samuiforsale.com just to name two

[LivinginKata]

Not "custom" - the law. If there is a legal Thai Will leaving the property to the husband then he gets it 100%. But he must sell it to a Thai within one year (if it is land, not a condo). If no Will - and the wife has some family - then the husband gets a %age based on a set formula.

Anyone who wants to get the facts, just type in "making a thai will" into google or yahoo. Much good info available in the web sites of various thai law firms including www.thailawonline.com and www.samuiforsale.com just to name two

Thanks for that. I will read up on those site. This is topic 'dear' to my heart. Pun intended ...

[quiksilva]

You can legally own a condo without any problem as long as the thai ownership is above 51% of the building.

That's usually a 90 year lease deal. More recently the condo is held by a Thai company, with individual apartment owners have executive director voting rights. Works Ok, but realistically the owners at at the mercy of the 51% Thais. Also these sort of arrangements have high monthly maintenance fees and also the holding company management can charge what they want for electric & water bills. Works well for many owners, good resale potential...

Condominiums can be owned, by foreigners, in fee simple absolute possession by way of the Chanode Title, the closest equivalent to Freehold tenure of western markets. This form of strata titled freehold ownership is common throughout the world, although implementation differs.

Yes only 49% of the project can be sold to foreigners, but most major decisions in a project require a 75% vote at an AGM / EGM. (What defines this will depend on the condo rules and regs, and may differ from project to project, and some projects are less than willing to abide by them at all!!).

Utility charges can vary from project to project, but it is not unusual to have service fees for say, the electricity to be billed directly by the MEA. It will depend on the management though so personal engagement with the system is important for optimal results.

As with any major purchase its important to get know the project that you may be buying in intimately. Most people do a lot of research before buying a car, checking for history of safety problems, owners reviews, and almost certainly kick the tires and lift the hood, yet the same people very often do surprisingly little research when it comes to buying a property, especially so overseas.

So please at the very least, do yourself a favour, and speak to existing residents and co-owners about charges and the management of the projects you are interested in. Some are complete dogs, whilst others are managed very well indeed. By the way the difference usually boils down to the people managing the condo, and not the firm, although a good firm can help create better management systems, but remember its all about the people who implement them).

[lioness]

Perhaps someone could start a poll to get an idea of percentages of owners verses renters.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Farang-Live-...se-t247832.html

There we have it then, 67.06% of us Farang "own" our own propertys. So not everyone thinks the same about renting v ownership.

[LivinginKata]

There we have it then, 67.06% of us Farang "own" our own propertys. So not everyone thinks the same about renting v ownership.

Have to agree about owning. It's not about money, but more about being in control of your own 'castle'. Yes I know, I know, it's maybe just an illusion here in Thailand. But it gives me some comfort for my immediate (note...immediate) future ...

[pkrv]

There we have it then, 67.06% of us Farang "own" our own propertys. So not everyone thinks the same about renting v ownership.

Have to agree about owning. It's not about money, but more about being in control of your own 'castle'. Yes I know, I know, it's maybe just an illusion here in Thailand. But it gives me some comfort for my immediate (note...immediate) future ...

I am sorry what illusion is that? CASE IN POINT

http://www.theparkresidence.co.th/exterior.htm

All futures considered. OWNED, can sell, will die, and pass on!