Self-exiled Australian Dies In Immigration Detention Center

[Huey]

Yeah R.I.P. Poor guy there had to be something mentally wrong with him. Sure I don't want to be forced to live in the US with no passport but beats the hel_l out of Jail any day of the week!

[Lancelot]

Is Australia really THAT bad !

Exactly. I have never seen so many losers as I have during my time in Thailand. Often I hear "We're free here in Thailand." Free for what? To run over some one then flee the scene? Throw a bucket of water, hitting the motorbike driver so they crash? Cheat fellow farangs out of money?

Ah well, whatever. I do feel a bit sad for someone choosing prison in Thailand instead of returning home. There are some real unhappy campers here

[amja]

I was in IDC in january -05 on a visa matter and ended up next to Colin. I was there for about 2 month and got to know hin quite well. For sure he was NOT crazy, but one of the most stubborn men I´ve ever met. He told me that after his father died, he only had a brother who he did not have any contact with, and did not want any either. As far as the problems with the embassy, he was really pissed at them after their behavior when he was at trial. They promised to help him with legal advice and did not turn up for the trial, so he did not want to have any contact with them further. I´m a little surprised tha he was still there, because when I left things seemed to lighten up for him.

Anyway

He´s better off where he is now. R.I P. Colin.......a good man

[miruph]

amja thanks for that. sad.

RIP Colin

[sriracha john]

Hi Folks

End of story.

Daveyo

Mary Mother ! It's Daveyo !

After a 40-month absence.

back

[ovenman]

Hi Folks

End of story.

Daveyo

Mary Mother ! It's Daveyo !

After a 40-month absence.

back

Second that!

Edited April 23, 2009 by ovenman

[goonerone]

a sad day for a man that only wanted to stay in the country he loved (rest in piece)

Self-exiled Aussie dies in Bangkok

A Melbourne man who preferred to live in a crowded Bangkok immigration cell rather than return to Australia has died.

Colin Hansch, 61, told Thai authorities he would rather stay in jail than return to Australia, even though he only slept on a mat and received a small serve of rice and soup each day.

"I've not been back to Australia for 30 years. I don't want to go back. I've got nothing to go back to," Mr Hansch said last year.

A spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade confirmed Mr Hansch's death in a police hospital in Bangkok.

The spokesman declined to reveal the cause of death.

People who visited him in the detention centre say he probably died from an overdose of prescription medicine.

Mr Hansch, a computer engineer who left Australia decades ago, refused offers by the Australian embassy in Bangkok to issue him a limited Australian travel document to allow him to return to Australia.

It is believed he wanted a passport so he could again leave Australia.

Mr Hansch had been detained at the Immigration Centre in Bangkok, near the Australian embassy, since September 2004.

He was transferred there, supposedly pending deportation, after serving two years in a Bangkok jail for assault causing bodily harm that related to a dispute with a bar girl in the tourist resort city of Pattaya.

There are about 25 Australians among thousands of foreigners being held in Thai jails, most of them for drug related offences.

Nicholas Zemlianski, another elderly prisoner from Melbourne, is believed to be unwell in a prison hospital in Bangkok.

Australia has an agreement with Thailand that allows prisoners there to be transferred to Australian jails but the process is intensely bureaucratic and there have been only a handful of exchanges.

- The Age (Australia) / 2009-04-23

[Oberkommando]

Suspicious that they won't release details of how he actually died.

Either they just don't know because of their usual incompetence or they are covering something up.

[goodstuff]

Well, why didn't he just go to Australia, serve out any remaining time, and THEN just apply for a passport.

because as soon as he left thailand they would'nt have allowed him back in perona none grata

[CHINWA]

A full passport shold have been issued by the Australian Government if all conditios for a passport have been met There is no indication they were not. THe officials claim they offered him a one way travel document. Why didn't they do their job and issue him a passportl

Is there any embassy who care about their own nationals??? A diplomat's duties are to attend parties and other of duty occasions but never to assist their own people. Embassies are just a shelter to.... you guess it!!!

[jbhh]

I think many countries, perhaps most, do not issue new passports from their Embassies abroad, only from the Passport agency at home. Passport renewals/replacements yes, new passport, I think not.

One also wonders why he did not have a passport to begin with?

The US embassy does, they issued a passport for my son. Not a temp passport but the full real passport

Usually the Passports are being printed back home and posted to the Embassy that then hands it out to you. Express/Temporary Passports are printed at the Embassies normally. If I read the news right, he was to be forced to return to A whenever he served his time (that's why he didnt' get a passport only a one-way travel paper offered)... my suspicion is that he had something else going on over there that he did not want to face.

Poor guy, may he rest in piece...

Edited April 23, 2009 by jbhh

[lensta]

I am expat Aussie here in Thailand and I DON'T EVER want to go back for reasons of my own.I respect that guy for standing up for what he felt was right.And if he was happy in the space he was in then there is no reason for any one to belittle his choice.It was his and the laws allowed him to live that way.

Rest in Peace Lad.

I also am an expat Aussie in Thailand, I don't have any arrest warrants issued against me, but if I never set foot in Australia again it will be too soon. RIP

[Blinky Bill]

How many folks are there in the world? 6 or 7 billion? No country really gives a shit about a single individual if they fukc up unless it means there are brownie points awaiting.

[BSJ]

The poor bugger may have been demented. But on the other hand he may have seen news & current affairs footage of Australia as it is today and decided a Thai gaol isn't all that bad. After 30 years it sure is different!

[mikehock]

Wondering how someone can choose not to be deported ? Isn't deportation just that they will get rid of you against your will ? Carry you into plane or even join the flight and hand you over the authorities in destination and tell you not to return ever.

Where i come from there is no chance of staying, jail or elsewhere once you have been deported and all possible means of appeal are rejected.

Thats a point you make here. I know in other countries they put you on a plane sometimes by using force. Have seen that many times on television.

Deportation is ordered by a court of law

So, how can someone refuse not to get deported???

UUmmm ... i think you mean "how can someone refuse getting deported ??

[lectito]

I know in other countries they put you on a plane sometimes by using force. Have seen that many times on television.

Deportation is ordered by a court of law

So, how can someone refuse not to get deported???

Given how insistent he was about not returning to Australia, I'd imagine airlines would take a fair bit of persuading that he wouldn't cause problems on board the plane, and would insist on the Thai police supplying enough escorts to keep him subdued if he made trouble.

Given how many police it took to subdue the last Australian they had to deal with - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Enraged-Auss...ic-t244230.html - I'd imagine it would take several escorts (at a cost of a few thousand dollars each for return airfares). Perhaps the Thais decided it was cheaper - and less trouble - to leave him sitting in his cell until he either agreed to go voluntarily or died.

[chalvy]

Very bad form to talk of the dead, but bloody hel_l! The guy must have been just a little bit nutters. Good riddance to bad rubbish i reckon.

[Krungthepian]

Colin's death is sad, tragic. The most insightful entry here was post no 63 by Amja, who says he got to know him over a month or two in Suan Phlu. I met him also briefly (visiting the IDC) two years ago and talked to various people re his situation a number of times. I think the key thing is he was stubborn. And he didn't have anything to return to, in terms of family.

Davidyo in post 60 mentions that both governments stuffed up. I'm inclined to agree. The Thais sent him to the mental health hospital (Thonburi?) to check his sanity and he was allegedly found to be sane, as Amja also thought. However, I think his position bordered on mental illness because I believe you need your head read if you think you can survive in a cell with 50 to 100 North Koreans (often fighting, he said) for any period of time.

The Thais, fairly remarkably, didn't force him to go. Maybe they should have. Thing is, that then raises the prospect of whether you have to drug and forcibly accompany him on a long flight to Oz; many they could see that he would fight that and realised if that happened he would never stand a chance of returning to this part of the world (more on that shortly).

I think Colin did have a grudge with embassy officials, sadly. They did want to help but they are also incredibly busy. One told of Colin just rolling over when he came to see him. But as one prison visits lady said, there was a big hole in Colin's argument. I think his main fear was not being able to get back to this part of the world. He feared not being able to get ID documents (not a fully rational fear, in my mind), because he didn't have a bank account, or a home, a driver's licence, or perhaps, relatives to swear for him. That process may have been a major $hitfight, in his mind.

And he may have also feared having to repay the cost of sending him home. He owed at least 100,000 baht to the embassy, I believe, for the cost of his detention and other things. This obviously meant having to work in Aust to pay that debt off - he appeared to have reluctance to face that hurdle as well. I think he envisaged getting stuck in Oz trying to find work and it could end up taking years to get back; that there would be some hurdle to stop him ever getting a passport (because he served time here in Thailand, etc). He didn't appear to have much faith in our bureaucracy. He also said he hated Australians; that all the Aussies he met in Pattaya he found obnoxious.

In regard to the fight with the bargirl in Pattaya; she was stabbed, although not that seriously injured as far as I'm aware. I don't know who grabbed the knife first, but that drama obviously had serious ramifications for him.

In regard to his previous work: there was no mention that there was any security concern. I think his work here was for a US firm that did work with the expressways or expressway tolls. He worked on their computer system, I believe. (And ironically you would think his ability on computers should actually give him slightly better work prospects.. on the other hand, he was 61, and who employs someone of that age, you might say? He probably realised that).

Looking back, I wonder about the legality of Australia enforcing a person to return home in such a situation. On the other hand, he had no money. Do you allow him to go to HK or Phnom Penh or KL when he has nothing in his pocket?

If he'd sat back and looked at his situation calmly, he should've had the sense to see going home quietly was by far his best option.

The fellow in Klong Prem - Nicholas Zemlianski - has been there about 20 years I believe. He had a couple of strokes last year and is in declining health, cared for by prison doc known as Dr John. One prison visits lady thinks he has family in Melbourne (but perhaps it's a sister cos people can't find the same surname, which is of Russian extraction, in the phone book). On the other hand sending him home, which is surely warranted (and he allegedly has a pardon application in with the K that is seen as a "strong" case).. if he wants to go. But I'm told he'd need to be escorted by two guards, that they'd have to return here, and everyone fly down and back business class. I was told the cost would be $120,000 Aust. And he'd have to repay that debt (presumably the govt would write it off when he dies, which may not be far away).

But maybe Colin also had an insight of the costs of being forcibly returned. That he might also face that sort of ludicrious bill and NEVER get the chance to come back to this part of the world, which he appears to have much preferred.

Anyway, when I think of that song "I Still Call Australia Home" by Peter Allen, I sometimes think of Colin, because he was the antithesis of all that guff you get about it being the greatest country on earth (which it may well be in a range of many ways such as clean beaches, environment, good friendly people, a down-to-earth society that values the ordinary man; whatever). Only it is crap for some, and bullshit in other ways; it seems rough-edged socially and perhaps a less caring society now I've lived up here for a decade or so. In Colin's eyes the attitudes of Aussie tourists he met in Sin City were offensive .. not that you'd want to call the visitors there indicative of Aussies in general (God forbid).

His death (Dec 28) was only a few days after the first story appeared in The Age about his case; although I've yet to find out if he was even told about that. In March 2007, he had passed a message via Jesuit people who monitor prisoners at Suan Phlu that he didn't want his case reported in the papers here; perhaps he hoped he might somehow be released and that any attention wouldn't help. Tragically, he had allegedly written to papers about his case, but there is no indication anything ever came of that.

His death was suspected suicide, I believe, from a possible overdose of prescription drugs. DFAT didn't say that, probably because privacy laws have become stupidly onerous. And they probably have a policy that tries to prevent family members from being offended (ironically). Christmas is apparently a bad time for suicides.

When you hear about deaths like these you wonder what more you could have done. And whether solutions could have been created slightly outside stiff bureaucratic rules. I think people at the embassy did care about him but they weren't sure how to help, partly cos he himself thwarted what was probably best for him (going home).

Anyway, just some insights into his case. I don't think he died unloved or not thought of, but he didn't make it easy for people to help him, very very sadly.

K

[connel707]

How does someone want to stay voluntarily in the IDC? It is considered more worse than Bang Kwan prison (The big tiger).

If this guy was not insane there was something he might wanted to hide... otherwise I can't see any logical explanation for his "wish" to stay.

last question - how can an Embassy allow a countryman rot in that 5hithole for over 5 years?

something wrong here?

I have to say I agree 100% with Colin Hansch, I would much rather stay in Soy Suanpluu, than return to Melbourne, and typical of the Aussie government to turn the other way when someone needs help.. RIP Colin...

Are you people reading different articles to me? Where did the Australian government turn the other way when help was needed? Consular support was provided while he was in jail and later in Immigration detention. He was offered repatriation to Australia and declined it. What else were they supposed to do? Inform Thailand that they must change their immigration laws? I don't know why he could not be given a passport, but Thai law says he must return directly to Australia. If he didn't want to go what else could have been done? I'm sorry he died while in custody but it appears to have been his choice to remain in custody.

And what then of the Bali 8, was in not the Australian Government that gave them up for execution, when they could have waited for those kids to return to Australia and deal with them under Australian law....

[Grumbles]

>quote

"I've not been back to Australia for 30 years. I don't want to go back. I've got nothing to go back to," Mr Hansch said last year.

It seems that he had spent the latter half of his life out of Oz, and probably had no family or friends plus he may not have been eligible for benefits.

His actions were his decision so how about letting the poor buggar rest in peace.

Hear, hear.

Help was offered & declined "up to him".

[Old Croc]

I knew of a guy many years ago who was serving a lengthy sentence in Australia for a particularly violent crime.

He always claimed his innocence, not because he didn't do it, but because he claimed to be under the influence of toxic fumes at the time. He had pursued and lost all appeal processes and there was nothing else he could do to change his sentence.

He reached his parole period and could have been deported to NZ. He refused to cooperate, instead choosing to complete his full sentence (another 2-3 years) when he would be deported anyway.

It was his choice, a stupid choice, he thought he was still registering a protest of some sort, but didn't have the sense to see that no one cared.

He was as stubborn as this guy and about as effective.

There are some people in this world who would rather sit on a principle than help themselves.

Blame lies no where else.

[brahmburgers]

Australia has an agreement with Thailand that allows prisoners there to be transferred to Australian jails but the process is intensely bureaucratic and there have been only a handful of exchanges.

- The Age (Australia) / 2009-04-23

Many things that could be relatively simple - are made exceedingly difficult by bureaucrats. I get reminded of that constantly.

Regarding IDC: I have a friend in IDC/Bkk for over a year. Kevin is American, and it appears he's been offered some convoluted way to get out of IDC, but it's not clear. In my phone conversations with him, he complains of complications (or conspiracies against him) which involve callous mediators and ineffective embassy personnel. IDC sounds like a bottomless pit to me, with gordian knots keeping inmates from getting a fair shake at getting free.

[Spaniel]

Colin's death is sad, tragic. The most insightful entry here was post no 63 by Amja, who says he got to know him over a month or two in Suan Phlu. I met him also briefly (visiting the IDC) two years ago and talked to various people re his situation a number of times. I think the key thing is he was stubborn. And he didn't have anything to return to, in terms of family.

Davidyo in post 60 mentions that both governments stuffed up. I'm inclined to agree. The Thais sent him to the mental health hospital (Thonburi?) to check his sanity and he was allegedly found to be sane, as Amja also thought. However, I think his position bordered on mental illness because I believe you need your head read if you think you can survive in a cell with 50 to 100 North Koreans (often fighting, he said) for any period of time.

The Thais, fairly remarkably, didn't force him to go. Maybe they should have. Thing is, that then raises the prospect of whether you have to drug and forcibly accompany him on a long flight to Oz; many they could see that he would fight that and realised if that happened he would never stand a chance of returning to this part of the world (more on that shortly).

I think Colin did have a grudge with embassy officials, sadly. They did want to help but they are also incredibly busy. One told of Colin just rolling over when he came to see him. But as one prison visits lady said, there was a big hole in Colin's argument. I think his main fear was not being able to get back to this part of the world. He feared not being able to get ID documents (not a fully rational fear, in my mind), because he didn't have a bank account, or a home, a driver's licence, or perhaps, relatives to swear for him. That process may have been a major $hitfight, in his mind.

And he may have also feared having to repay the cost of sending him home. He owed at least 100,000 baht to the embassy, I believe, for the cost of his detention and other things. This obviously meant having to work in Aust to pay that debt off - he appeared to have reluctance to face that hurdle as well. I think he envisaged getting stuck in Oz trying to find work and it could end up taking years to get back; that there would be some hurdle to stop him ever getting a passport (because he served time here in Thailand, etc). He didn't appear to have much faith in our bureaucracy. He also said he hated Australians; that all the Aussies he met in Pattaya he found obnoxious.

In regard to the fight with the bargirl in Pattaya; she was stabbed, although not that seriously injured as far as I'm aware. I don't know who grabbed the knife first, but that drama obviously had serious ramifications for him.

In regard to his previous work: there was no mention that there was any security concern. I think his work here was for a US firm that did work with the expressways or expressway tolls. He worked on their computer system, I believe. (And ironically you would think his ability on computers should actually give him slightly better work prospects.. on the other hand, he was 61, and who employs someone of that age, you might say? He probably realised that).

Looking back, I wonder about the legality of Australia enforcing a person to return home in such a situation. On the other hand, he had no money. Do you allow him to go to HK or Phnom Penh or KL when he has nothing in his pocket?

If he'd sat back and looked at his situation calmly, he should've had the sense to see going home quietly was by far his best option.

The fellow in Klong Prem - Nicholas Zemlianski - has been there about 20 years I believe. He had a couple of strokes last year and is in declining health, cared for by prison doc known as Dr John. One prison visits lady thinks he has family in Melbourne (but perhaps it's a sister cos people can't find the same surname, which is of Russian extraction, in the phone book). On the other hand sending him home, which is surely warranted (and he allegedly has a pardon application in with the K that is seen as a "strong" case).. if he wants to go. But I'm told he'd need to be escorted by two guards, that they'd have to return here, and everyone fly down and back business class. I was told the cost would be $120,000 Aust. And he'd have to repay that debt (presumably the govt would write it off when he dies, which may not be far away).

But maybe Colin also had an insight of the costs of being forcibly returned. That he might also face that sort of ludicrious bill and NEVER get the chance to come back to this part of the world, which he appears to have much preferred.

Anyway, when I think of that song "I Still Call Australia Home" by Peter Allen, I sometimes think of Colin, because he was the antithesis of all that guff you get about it being the greatest country on earth (which it may well be in a range of many ways such as clean beaches, environment, good friendly people, a down-to-earth society that values the ordinary man; whatever). Only it is crap for some, and bullshit in other ways; it seems rough-edged socially and perhaps a less caring society now I've lived up here for a decade or so. In Colin's eyes the attitudes of Aussie tourists he met in Sin City were offensive .. not that you'd want to call the visitors there indicative of Aussies in general (God forbid).

His death (Dec 28) was only a few days after the first story appeared in The Age about his case; although I've yet to find out if he was even told about that. In March 2007, he had passed a message via Jesuit people who monitor prisoners at Suan Phlu that he didn't want his case reported in the papers here; perhaps he hoped he might somehow be released and that any attention wouldn't help. Tragically, he had allegedly written to papers about his case, but there is no indication anything ever came of that.

His death was suspected suicide, I believe, from a possible overdose of prescription drugs. DFAT didn't say that, probably because privacy laws have become stupidly onerous. And they probably have a policy that tries to prevent family members from being offended (ironically). Christmas is apparently a bad time for suicides.

When you hear about deaths like these you wonder what more you could have done. And whether solutions could have been created slightly outside stiff bureaucratic rules. I think people at the embassy did care about him but they weren't sure how to help, partly cos he himself thwarted what was probably best for him (going home).

Anyway, just some insights into his case. I don't think he died unloved or not thought of, but he didn't make it easy for people to help him, very very sadly.

K

I've read all the posts and it seem this poster and Amja are the only people that actually new Colin. I met Colin years ago at the old Thermae and ran into him fairly regularly for several years. Colin did work for some company in the computer department that had a contract with the expressways. Back then I thought he was rather normal. Then I lost touch with him and I haven't seen him in over 20 years although another Aussie mutual friend had told me that Colin had moved to Pattaya. A sad ending, RIP, Colin.

[Rumjungle]

Incredible but after all these years I can back up the note from Brahmburgers as to meeting the same Colin in the Thermae coffee shop several times many years ago . There were also a few places in Patpong where he popped up. It was in the era of the bulletin board postings for computer geeks of those days to contact each other, before Netscape came along. Thats why I can remember Colin because of his computer skills then, he wasnt really a bar fly, more of a scholar. That was proved to me when he complained to one of the counter dancers to move her body out the way cos he couldnt see the movie on the TV behind her .

Another memory which now points a finger to his thinking is of the day I drove him to our factory outside town in Samut Sakorn. The aim was then to get his help in setting up the company's PC system. That project never came into being and I lost track of Colin after that by getting married and dropping out of the bar scene but on that drive we passed out from the city limits into green ricefields and Colin became quite agitated saying he hadnt been into the countryside for donkeys years and clearly to me he was fairly unsettled to be out of his city routine.

Its been many years but I feel a certain sense of closure myself to discover that the rather odd but harmless fellow I happened to know by chance has passed on to his destiny and featured so heavily in this forum . Even seeing this story in the internet was a coincidence so there is a reason for everything in our world not really any fault of anyone I would humbly suggest.

[sriracha john]

Incredible but after all these years I can back up the note from Brahmburgers as to meeting the same Colin in the Thermae coffee shop several times many years ago . There were also a few places in Patpong where he popped up. It was in the era of the bulletin board postings for computer geeks of those days to contact each other, before Netscape came along. Thats why I can remember Colin because of his computer skills then, he wasnt really a bar fly, more of a scholar. That was proved to me when he complained to one of the counter dancers to move her body out the way cos he couldnt see the movie on the TV behind her .

Another memory which now points a finger to his thinking is of the day I drove him to our factory outside town in Samut Sakorn. The aim was then to get his help in setting up the company's PC system. That project never came into being and I lost track of Colin after that by getting married and dropping out of the bar scene but on that drive we passed out from the city limits into green ricefields and Colin became quite agitated saying he hadnt been into the countryside for donkeys years and clearly to me he was fairly unsettled to be out of his city routine.

Its been many years but I feel a certain sense of closure myself to discover that the rather odd but harmless fellow I happened to know by chance has passed on to his destiny and featured so heavily in this forum . Even seeing this story in the internet was a coincidence so there is a reason for everything in our world not really any fault of anyone I would humbly suggest.

What an elegant soliloquy...

Thank you for that...

Does anyone have an appropriate photo of Mr. Hansch? I've not found one and it might be a nice touch to the thread. As more of the above type posts seem to be made, he's certainly more humanized.

Edited April 26, 2009 by sriracha john

[actiondell4]

Looking at the website Foreign prisoner support i cant see the name of the aussie who you mention has been incarcerated for 20 years.

Nicholas Zemlianski? THE aussie media has never mentioned him,what did he do 20 years ago?

Wasnt that about the time the first grade Newtown footballer Paul Hayward and author Warren Fellows were inside?

[pingman]

Foreign Prisoners Support? There's lots of prisoners not on that site! It's not the definitive list you know - and is quite out of date anyway.

Prisoners have to request to be included, to cover issues of privacy, as they may wish to remain anonymous.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A full passport shold have been issued by the Australian Government if all conditios for a passport have been met There is no indication they were not. THe officials claim they offered him a one way travel document. Why didn't they do their job and issue him a passportl

Fee ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The next question is what will they do with him now..? Will he be given a funeral locally, or will they repatriate his body..? Very sad story whatever the case.

Cremation at the local Wat.

[cutter007]

Wondering how someone can choose not to be deported ? Isn't deportation just that they will get rid of you against your will ? Carry you into plane or even join the flight and hand you over the authorities in destination and tell you not to return ever.

Where i come from there is no chance of staying, jail or elsewhere once you have been deported and all possible means of appeal are rejected.

Thats a point you make here. I know in other countries they put you on a plane sometimes by using force. Have seen that many times on television.

Deportation is ordered by a court of law

So, how can someone refuse not to get deported???

UUmmm ... i think you mean "how can someone refuse getting deported ??

It is quite simple to refuse deportation, you just renounce your citizenship. I assume that is what the guy basically did.

If he renounces citizenship, where are you going to deport him to, he is a citizen of no where?

I am sure in these cases, that if you renounced citizenship and then were stuck in limbo in an immigration jail, that your home country

would work with you to renew your citizenship under most circumstances, but they can't renew your citizenship if you refuse the offer, countries can't force citizenship on you, which I believe is what this guy was fighting.

In summary, it sounded if he was saying, unless Australia gives me a full passport, I am not going to accept citizenship.