Beware Builder/architect Surin

[Lickey]

Suppose thats possible, in our case in Namsom, if the building is taking place within 300 mtrs of the village/town center, then the local amphur wants to know, all they done was measure out the plot, and said ok, no problem, the blue book was issued before the building was finished,

The designer is mrs youngest brother, [architect by trade] main builder was BiL, family boss out of 7, mrs!!!

Wildoates, get your mrs/gf motivated, get her on your side to speak up for you, if she is too meek for this, then perhaps another family member?

Im sure you will work it out and hopefully breakeven, good luck, Lickey.

[wildoates]

Got her fired up yesterday and finally talk with him. He is giving a song and dance and will show me how he is doing everything right. This idoit says he has never seen anyone with hot water at a sink? or motion detector lights? My god he should be still using mud and sticks to build houses. She told him I wanted to see the cost of building and he told her that he would not share, it was priviate information, sounds like he has too much to hide there. Guess it will be a lawyer time.

[Dave the Dude]

Got her fired up yesterday and finally talk with him. He is giving a song and dance and will show me how he is doing everything right. This idoit says he has never seen anyone with hot water at a sink? or motion detector lights? My god he should be still using mud and sticks to build houses. She told him I wanted to see the cost of building and he told her that he would not share, it was priviate information, sounds like he has too much to hide there. Guess it will be a lawyer time.

Hi Wildoats

Just to lighten your plight, when I was having my house built, (but still working 3month shifts in the UK) I visited my builder and told him I wanted Hot and Cold showers in both bathrooms. By the way I am(was) a CORGI registered plumber and upon my next visit 3 months later, I got exactly what he understood..........

Each bathroom had 2 slide-rails/shower heads, one from a electric (hot) shower and the other off the mains (cold). With a bit of creative thinking, it actually turned out good, cos I replaced the mains shower with a tap and thats for a Thai 'bucket&chuck it' shower. Very handy if the water main is cut off. I didn't even 'go there' about having hot water to the basins. Which reminds me Wildoats... Kitchens have sinks, Bathrooms have Basins. See a misunderstanding and we are both squeeking Engrish

Wildoats, I use that as an example of the communication problems we endure when building, so remember you do have to 'cut a little slack' with Thai builders and be very carefully communicating your requirements. When you think they understand, DO NOT BELIEVE IT but double check.

Good luck. I bet you will be laughing about all this in a few years time

Dave

Dave

[Lite Beer]

Yep. To be fare, He probably has not seen hot water in a kitchen before. I never have in Thailand either.

A lot of things will be extra, such as Electric Supply connected, Electric Meter, Water Tank if you need one. Steel security grids on the windows.

Something very important you need to check. Is the electric supply earthed? Most are not. Ours was not and we got an electrician to come in afterwards and fix it.

The earth wire from the electric showers (also extra) just disapeared into the roof and went nowhere. Scared thehell out of me when I found out.

[Dave the Dude]

The earth wire from the electric showers (also extra) just disapeared into the roof and went nowhere. Scared thehell out of me when I found out.

Wow, that is dangerous.

I had to have to wiring to the showers altered because they were spurred off the lighting circuit and the switches with shower stickers in the consumer unit were 'for show purposes only!!'. Its a good idea to either buy the shower or specify the KW of the showers to be used as heavier duty wiring is always needed compared to what a Thai builder would put in. Also this should be an dedicated supply and as Litebear says, correctly earthed(grounded).

IMHO this is the most important electrical system in the house. WATER AND ELECTRICITY are a dangerous combination.

Dave

[wildoates]

Yep. To be fare, He probably has not seen hot water in a kitchen before. I never have in Thailand either.

A lot of things will be extra, such as Electric Supply connected, Electric Meter, Water Tank if you need one. Steel security grids on the windows.

Something very important you need to check. Is the electric supply earthed? Most are not. Ours was not and we got an electrician to come in afterwards and fix it.

The earth wire from the electric showers (also extra) just disapeared into the roof and went nowhere. Scared thehell out of me when I found out.

Well I have to say the electic is OK, I worked with the electrican directly on what I wanted, and got outlets in every wall, grounded everything, he was real good to work with, real top notch, that is the only one he has that I can say that about.

[wildoates]

The earth wire from the electric showers (also extra) just disapeared into the roof and went nowhere. Scared thehell out of me when I found out.

Wow, that is dangerous.

I had to have to wiring to the showers altered because they were spurred off the lighting circuit and the switches with shower stickers in the consumer unit were 'for show purposes only!!'. Its a good idea to either buy the shower or specify the KW of the showers to be used as heavier duty wiring is always needed compared to what a Thai builder would put in. Also this should be an dedicated supply and as Litebear says, correctly earthed(grounded).

IMHO this is the most important electrical system in the house. WATER AND ELECTRICITY are a dangerous combination.

Dave

Agree, the electiecan put in extra breaker for the hot water machines. They put in the typical thai water drain for sinks six mosquitoes breeding pits,with cememt in the bottom, pipe 1/2 way up the 30x30 cm box which leads to the street to drain. I pointed out that one thing I know about plumbing is shi$ do run up hill so his drain is worthless. I beleve he is a educated retard.

[goodheartman]

There is something that I must add to my above post.

There are a lot of 70/80 year old Farangs, that pick up a 17-20 year old beauty, fall desperately in love and build the girl and himself, the house that dreams are made from. Now then, the builder, which the Thai girl ' has heard is good', is in a lot of cases part of the family circle, and the plans which the Farang has put in has already been scrutinised by her family and altered accordingly to more suit their needs. I'm not saying this happens in all cases, but certainly a great deal more where the 'handsome man' is 60 or more years older than his bride to be.

i hope you joking sir!

60 years age difference! whats does a geezer need w a new house

[Thaicoon]

There is something that I must add to my above post.

There are a lot of 70/80 year old Farangs, that pick up a 17-20 year old beauty, fall desperately in love and build the girl and himself, the house that dreams are made from. Now then, the builder, which the Thai girl ' has heard is good', is in a lot of cases part of the family circle, and the plans which the Farang has put in has already been scrutinised by her family and altered accordingly to more suit their needs. I'm not saying this happens in all cases, but certainly a great deal more where the 'handsome man' is 60 or more years older than his bride to be.

Absolutely. Their are lots of stupid farangs in Thailand.

Barry

Well said, i also totally agree. met a guy one night in Dirty Dans bar in Prasat, he was 79 lost 3 houses and building another for his wife no 4, who was 21. and the girl was organising the build say no more.

[Dave the Dude]

Well said, i also totally agree. met a guy one night in Dirty Dans bar in Prasat, he was 79 lost 3 houses and building another for his wife no 4, who was 21. and the girl was organising the build say no more.

Sounds like he deserves everything he is about to lose

Dave

[dkstoney]

Agree, looked at three of his house that were built or being built he pointed out the nice features that he did. I think some of his problem here is that he has played in the money pot and is short now, he spent some on his house, thinking he was getting a loan, and his loan fell through. But I am holding ground, only problem is now he is not returning phone calls or emails, work is still going on, but he is not addressing my concerns just ignoring them

Why don't you just get a lawyer?

[Dave the Dude]

Why don't you just get a lawyer?

If only life in Thailand was that simple. Shame really

Dave

[wildoates]

Agree, looked at three of his house that were built or being built he pointed out the nice features that he did. I think some of his problem here is that he has played in the money pot and is short now, he spent some on his house, thinking he was getting a loan, and his loan fell through. But I am holding ground, only problem is now he is not returning phone calls or emails, work is still going on, but he is not addressing my concerns just ignoring them

Why don't you just get a lawyer?

It is close to that point, we will see if it helps any.

[wildoates]

Well finally got the wife fired up, met with the builder today. She sent him an email detailing all of the probems we seen with the build. He called her first trying to do the old soft shoe with his song and dance. Well she stopped him cold with the statement, "well you give me no choice but to sue you.", he listen to her at that point. We met, walked throgh the house pointing out all the problems and he will fix everthing the way we want it done. He did not once try and say "that to expensive". Everything went as what we asked for. They have about 2-3 weeks worth of work left to do, so we will see. He had a meeting with the leads and told them to do everything perfect because I was real picky. So we will see, but he knew he was in the wrong.

[Dave the Dude]

Well finally got the wife fired up, met with the builder today. She sent him an email detailing all of the probems we seen with the build. He called her first trying to do the old soft shoe with his song and dance. Well she stopped him cold with the statement, "well you give me no choice but to sue you.", he listen to her at that point. We met, walked throgh the house pointing out all the problems and he will fix everthing the way we want it done. He did not once try and say "that to expensive". Everything went as what we asked for. They have about 2-3 weeks worth of work left to do, so we will see. He had a meeting with the leads and told them to do everything perfect because I was real picky. So we will see, but he knew he was in the wrong.

Hi Wildoats

I am pleased to hear you and the wife have cleared the air. I hope you can start to enjoy the soon to be new home even though all parties will be watching each other closely.

You never know, it might even soon be time for 'an olive leaf' or friendly justure on the 'bosses' part.

Dave

[wildoates]

Well finally got the wife fired up, met with the builder today. She sent him an email detailing all of the probems we seen with the build. He called her first trying to do the old soft shoe with his song and dance. Well she stopped him cold with the statement, "well you give me no choice but to sue you.", he listen to her at that point. We met, walked throgh the house pointing out all the problems and he will fix everthing the way we want it done. He did not once try and say "that to expensive". Everything went as what we asked for. They have about 2-3 weeks worth of work left to do, so we will see. He had a meeting with the leads and told them to do everything perfect because I was real picky. So we will see, but he knew he was in the wrong.

Hi Wildoats

I am pleased to hear you and the wife have cleared the air. I hope you can start to enjoy the soon to be new home even though all parties will be watching each other closely.

You never know, it might even soon be time for 'an olive leaf' or friendly justure on the 'bosses' part.

Dave

Yes, I understand, I gave a little on the "Demands" it was funny though, his GF/Finacee was there and was talking to the wife, and she said the things I poiinted out was "crap" and she would not accept them either. He knows he can not meet the deadline of the contract, he is even pulling the crew that has been working on his house (that I am sure I have been paying) to all work on my house to try and get it done by the end of the month. I have brought things at powerbuy TV, AC, Refrig that need to be deliverd and the LCD mounted on the wall, but have to wait for them to get doors up, and those areas ready and the electric on. End of the month I suspect.

Thanks

[zzaa09]

You are correct, I am cautious of what I say, cause I am still trying to work things out. But I hired a builder/Architect in surin to build a house. I gave him a floor plan and he drew up the building plans. Back and forth and finally started the house. He assured me of complete oversite and what the quality would be. I looked at a couple of houses he built and all looked OK. Well it started out OK, but now as the finish work, I might as well hired the local people. The quality is not there, now I hear, that was not in the budget, I have to pay more. He has taken supplies from the worksite for his own use on his house he is having built, I called him on it, and he said yes he took the items but he had to buy more anyway, but guess with who's money. There are several things that I told him are not acceptable, now he won't even return calls. He has not come to look at the building of the house for several weeks, stopped in, told them they were not putting the tile in the master bath in the pattern he wanted, so they had to rip it off, guess who is buying the additional tiles? The windows are the lowest quality that is out there. Just plain poor quality, and no customer skills.

I believe we know who you might be taliking about, WO.

[wildoates]

Just a quick update on this, I have hired an attoney, we are scheduled for court in Aug.

[Dave the Dude]

Just a quick update on this, I have hired an attoney, we are scheduled for court in Aug.

Good luck,Mike

Dave

[wildoates]

Well went to court yesterday, lawyer filed in this court for 300000 baht that was the limit, cause it was quicker to get into. The new builder came in with a price to fix everything at over 700000 baht, I kept asking the wife and lawyer why are we not going for all, they just said this court faster ?? Well in the builder showed with a lawyer asked how much we would settle for, we asid 300000 he said no way will fight it. they then did a suit on the wife for 120000 baht for the final fee on the contract, saying the house was done. They said there was nothing wrong with the house. And question why we were only asking for 300000 baht when the bill was 700000 baht. so court as put off until November. I again questioned why we were not going after all, and the lawyer finally said yes we should, but it could be a year to get into court, I said that is fine. So now we are going to go for the entire 700000 baht.

The the lawyer is going to write a letter to the school, questioning why he performed his business on school property, using school assets, and school students, saying we will file against the school also. Then he is going to have him investaged by the Tax people, and something to do with his license? I asked the wife why all of this other, and it seems that the builder was rude to him so he is mad.

He is going to request books and receipts on the building funds, becuse the builder told the wife that he used our money on his house that is why he ran out of money.

then with the materials that he took from the proptery during the build and at the end, the lawyer told us to file a police report for theft.

[Dave the Dude]

Well went to court yesterday, lawyer filed in this court for 300000 baht that was the limit, cause it was quicker to get into. The new builder came in with a price to fix everything at over 700000 baht, I kept asking the wife and lawyer why are we not going for all, they just said this court faster ?? Well in the builder showed with a lawyer asked how much we would settle for, we asid 300000 he said no way will fight it. they then did a suit on the wife for 120000 baht for the final fee on the contract, saying the house was done. They said there was nothing wrong with the house. And question why we were only asking for 300000 baht when the bill was 700000 baht. so court as put off until November. I again questioned why we were not going after all, and the lawyer finally said yes we should, but it could be a year to get into court, I said that is fine. So now we are going to go for the entire 700000 baht.

The the lawyer is going to write a letter to the school, questioning why he performed his business on school property, using school assets, and school students, saying we will file against the school also. Then he is going to have him investaged by the Tax people, and something to do with his license? I asked the wife why all of this other, and it seems that the builder was rude to him so he is mad.

He is going to request books and receipts on the building funds, becuse the builder told the wife that he used our money on his house that is why he ran out of money.

then with the materials that he took from the proptery during the build and at the end, the lawyer told us to file a police report for theft.

Good luck with the case Mike.

I think a holiday will be in order once you get this finalised.

Dave

[ray23]

I filed against a builder four years ago, still in court on the first appeal. I can lose or get back 400K so it could be a lot worse. Left the house.

Moved into a track home and mofidied the way I wanted it. I made every mistake you could possibly make. He only made one but it was a big one. Didn't finish the home in the specified time frame. That is the only thing we filed on, he lost and it's in appeal now. I anticpate the last appeal after this.

I will never build a house here or anywhere else again. This was so much more simplier. Modification wasn't that difficult to get completed. Not worth it to me.

[wildoates]

I filed against a builder four years ago, still in court on the first appeal. I can lose or get back 400K so it could be a lot worse. Left the house.

Moved into a track home and mofidied the way I wanted it. I made every mistake you could possibly make. He only made one but it was a big one. Didn't finish the home in the specified time frame. That is the only thing we filed on, he lost and it's in appeal now. I anticpate the last appeal after this.

I will never build a house here or anywhere else again. This was so much more simplier. Modification wasn't that difficult to get completed. Not worth it to me.

Yeah that is what we filed on, he packed up his crew and left without finishing did not say a word. Now in his suit he claims he was done. we have several emails to him concerning thngs not done or needing to be repaired. Wife even has a recording of him acknowledging he was not done, and that we might want to use the 120K of his left to get some of the things fixed ourselves.

[ray23]

Well based on my experience you got a tough one, I think I said four years mistake actuall three now, just feels like four. But, we didn't take the house. He only had 400 K of our money another 1.1 still do. He sold the house to his next mark and they ended up waling selling in a year at a loss just to get out.

We took the money we owed him and bought a new one in a track. Larger and much nicer then one that was built. Sounds like you had a lot more in yours then I did. Going to take sometime for you to see money, if ever.

I had the lawyer meet with the builder three days after the completion date at the house. Day prior I went to the sight tool photos with a picture of that day newspaper. Really helped, also got a copy certified from the guy who bought the house. He sold it for the original price and kept my 400 K. I think that was what sealed the deal for us.

So it's in appeal now, we can ride it out as we had already had a new place to live. Good luck.

One thought for you Thai court it my case, are a bit different you just get up and tell your story for the most part. At least that is how it went for mine. Remember it's Thailand be polite sonlt use phraes like he is a theif, that will come out in the story. be prepared to get a good translator. more then liley they will be challenged. He will probably parade every worked that ever had been on the sight who are goign to say exactly what they are told to say.

Remember hearsay is the same here, so any first hand witnesses you have will really help. Problem with e-mail it's going to be hard to prove he ever received them. So be prepared for that. do yourself a time line hard to remember details in court it will help you. If he responded via e-mail be sure to print out his responses as well.

Good Luck

[wildoates]

Well based on my experience you got a tough one, I think I said four years mistake actuall three now, just feels like four. But, we didn't take the house. He only had 400 K of our money another 1.1 still do. He sold the house to his next mark and they ended up waling selling in a year at a loss just to get out.

We took the money we owed him and bought a new one in a track. Larger and much nicer then one that was built. Sounds like you had a lot more in yours then I did. Going to take sometime for you to see money, if ever.

I had the lawyer meet with the builder three days after the completion date at the house. Day prior I went to the sight tool photos with a picture of that day newspaper. Really helped, also got a copy certified from the guy who bought the house. He sold it for the original price and kept my 400 K. I think that was what sealed the deal for us.

So it's in appeal now, we can ride it out as we had already had a new place to live. Good luck.

One thought for you Thai court it my case, are a bit different you just get up and tell your story for the most part. At least that is how it went for mine. Remember it's Thailand be polite sonlt use phraes like he is a theif, that will come out in the story. be prepared to get a good translator. more then liley they will be challenged. He will probably parade every worked that ever had been on the sight who are goign to say exactly what they are told to say.

Remember hearsay is the same here, so any first hand witnesses you have will really help. Problem with e-mail it's going to be hard to prove he ever received them. So be prepared for that. do yourself a time line hard to remember details in court it will help you. If he responded via e-mail be sure to print out his responses as well.

Good Luck

It is the wife that has to talk, she is the one sueing, and being sued, not me. Most of the workers that were used on site were from the village, so they will be on our side not his. Kind of hard to fight pictures, and voice recording. On the emails, got a received tag on each of them, just so he could never say he did not get them. the wife is writing everything up now so that she can remember everything.

thanks

[Dave the Dude]

Probably no use but as I visited with Nok (my Thai builder friend), If we can be of assistance, You only have to ask,Mike

Dave (I can be bribed to say anything for Leo )

[dkstoney]

Good luck, mate! Let's just hope you're NOT discovered in a rubber tree plantation blown to smithereens.

[wildoates]

Good luck, mate! Let's just hope you're NOT discovered in a rubber tree plantation blown to smithereens.

You mean the wife, it is her suit but understand what you are saying.

[wildoates]

Probably no use but as I visited with Nok (my Thai builder friend), If we can be of assistance, You only have to ask,Mike

Dave (I can be bribed to say anything for Leo )

Understand, you cheap charlie thanks, we will see what comes down the road. The wife know his uncle, talked with him yesterday, he wants to talk to the nephew and get it settled with the wife without court.

[Dave the Dude]

Probably no use but as I visited with Nok (my Thai builder friend), If we can be of assistance, You only have to ask,Mike

Dave (I can be bribed to say anything for Leo )

Understand, you cheap charlie thanks, we will see what comes down the road. The wife know his uncle, talked with him yesterday, he wants to talk to the nephew and get it settled with the wife without court.

Ah! the old Thai way.....

Why involve 2 people if 15 are available