Chamlong Claims Abhisit Govt Not In Actual Control

[hammered]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

that is difference that you like the yellow team so much and see only the good things and you dislike the reds/thaksin and be afraid abhisit could lose his fragile power.

the real difference between somchai and abhisit is that somchais wife has more body weight as the then PM and that abhisits wife has more brain power than the now PM.

the real difference between Abhisit and Samak is, that you have to imagine thai politics as jail house, full of "professional" and samak is an old heavy weight, with old antagonism and abhisit just the new handsome boy with some experience from Eton. aloha.

Whatever derogatory comments you want to make about the 3 PMs has nothing to do with this point. Abhisit offered concessions Samak and Somchai did not. Period. This has nothing to do with team red or team yellow but is about government.

[HagenvonTronje]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

that is difference that you like the yellow team so much and see only the good things and you dislike the reds/thaksin and be afraid abhisit could lose his fragile power.

the real difference between somchai and abhisit is that somchais wife has more body weight as the then PM and that abhisits wife has more brain power than the now PM.

the real difference between Abhisit and Samak is, that you have to imagine thai politics as jail house, full of "professional" and samak is an old heavy weight, with old antagonism and abhisit just the new handsome boy with some experience from Eton. aloha.

Whatever derogatory comments you want to make about the 3 PMs has nothing to do with this point. Abhisit offered concessions Samak and Somchai did not. Period. This has nothing to do with team red or team yellow but is about government.

whatever, i am to lazy at the moment to pick up the PAD statements where they declare that they will not talk with somchai and not stop to protest before he is out of office. believe what you wanna believe. dreamer.

and actually i wanted to make a compliment to Dr. Pimpen Vejjajiva.

[LawnGnome]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

that is difference that you like the yellow team so much and see only the good things and you dislike the reds/thaksin and be afraid abhisit could lose his fragile power.

the real difference between somchai and abhisit is that somchais wife has more body weight as the then PM and that abhisits wife has more brain power than the now PM.

the real difference between Abhisit and Samak is, that you have to imagine thai politics as jail house, full of "professional" and samak is an old heavy weight, with old antagonism and abhisit just the new handsome boy with some experience from Eton. aloha.

Whatever derogatory comments you want to make about the 3 PMs has nothing to do with this point. Abhisit offered concessions Samak and Somchai did not. Period. This has nothing to do with team red or team yellow but is about government.

whatever, i am to lazy at the moment to pick up the PAD statements where they declare that they will not talk with somchai and not stop to protest before he is out of office. believe what you wanna believe. dreamer.

and actually i wanted to make a compliment to Dr. Pimpen Vejjajiva.

I know I'm suppose to be open minded, but your posts are so insufferable, I am putting you out of my misery...See you on your next "alt ID" ht.

[hammered]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

that is difference that you like the yellow team so much and see only the good things and you dislike the reds/thaksin and be afraid abhisit could lose his fragile power.

the real difference between somchai and abhisit is that somchais wife has more body weight as the then PM and that abhisits wife has more brain power than the now PM.

the real difference between Abhisit and Samak is, that you have to imagine thai politics as jail house, full of "professional" and samak is an old heavy weight, with old antagonism and abhisit just the new handsome boy with some experience from Eton. aloha.

Whatever derogatory comments you want to make about the 3 PMs has nothing to do with this point. Abhisit offered concessions Samak and Somchai did not. Period. This has nothing to do with team red or team yellow but is about government.

whatever, i am to lazy at the moment to pick up the PAD statements where they declare that they will not talk with somchai and not stop to protest before he is out of office. believe what you wanna believe. dreamer.

and actually i wanted to make a compliment to Dr. Pimpen Vejjajiva.

I wasnt talking about what the PAD or red sfor that matter said/did. I was talking about Abhissit offering concessions that were demands of the reds - amnesty, elections, charter rewrite. Somchai and Samak never tried that approach

I will leave you to dream on. At least this time your repsonse was getting closer

[HagenvonTronje]

I wasnt talking about what the PAD or red sfor that matter said/did. I was talking about Abhissit offering concessions that were demands of the reds - amnesty, elections, charter rewrite. Somchai and Samak never tried that approach

I will leave you to dream on. At least this time your repsonse was getting closer

ahh, okay.i thought it's about how an non parliamentarian movement, a street protest movement challenged the government, as we had it with Samak/Somchai vs. PAD and Abhisit vs. The Reds. the demands of this protesters and how the government deal with it.

we have to look at the PAD too. their demands - new politics and label everybody as a puppet if he don't agree with yellow.

you say Abhisit offered new elections? when? he told red go home, we need no more protest, after so long time is enough.

prosecute PAD is a demand - did it happen?

charter rewrite was one ofthe first , Abhisit said his team want to do. that junta paper isn't perfect enough. mhm. PPP wanted to do that to. before, but the now cabinet members, blocked the then government, not with parliamentarian option, but GH squatting, airport siege, unrest.

if abhisit is that great "nation unity" hero, he could be the man, the mediator , bring PPP and yellow at one table, during the 2008 crisis. but he did just wait.

there have possebilties to do so. the dislike for samak understandable (but more from a liberal position, than a royalist one) at first sondhi was open for somchai, but later changed his mind.

i wish abhisit where such a man of action. he is just a good teachers boy. do what was him told. the newin deal was done by suthep, a dirty one.

he could have build up a network between the younger parlamentarians, the fresh enthusiastic people, before they learn the dirty tricks of politics.. in PPP they are not all thaksins puppets. only abhisit is sitting in his trench and comes with handsome face propaganda. he maybe innocent, but he isn't the one who hold the steering wheel. he is still very old politics. families with names, decorate themself with a MP label, run the country as exclusive old boys club.

[Journalist]

I also meant bog-standard peasant - they've been enlisted in someone else's war.

It was an extremely small minority of the country's peasantry on the streets over Songkran. Most peasants aren't at war.

The average bog standard peasant was not there. A percentile number in the high nineties were at home getting sozzled and watching comedy shows with those strange tiny bald comics with wispy hair that Thailand seems to have. (Or that annoying 300 pound teenage kid with four chins)

They don't want revolution, they just want a large television set. An Izuzu truck (preferably red) and work that isn't too backbreaking. And, given that no political party has in the past given a monkeys about them, THB 500 at the polling booth,if proffered.

[samgrowth]

We should have Chamlong as the absolute leader / ruler.

It will turn Thailand into a second Iran (which is a Islamisc republic), using Asoke Buddist law.

Peace to all in Thailand. La Paz, La Paz.

[TPI]

I wasnt talking about what the PAD or red sfor that matter said/did. I was talking about Abhissit offering concessions that were demands of the reds - amnesty, elections, charter rewrite. Somchai and Samak never tried that approach

I will leave you to dream on. At least this time your repsonse was getting closer

ahh, okay.i thought it's about how an non parliamentarian movement, a street protest movement challenged the government, as we had it with Samak/Somchai vs. PAD and Abhisit vs. The Reds. the demands of this protesters and how the government deal with it.

we have to look at the PAD too. their demands - new politics and label everybody as a puppet if he don't agree with yellow.

you say Abhisit offered new elections? when? he told red go home, we need no more protest, after so long time is enough.

prosecute PAD is a demand - did it happen?

charter rewrite was one ofthe first , Abhisit said his team want to do. that junta paper isn't perfect enough. mhm. PPP wanted to do that to. before, but the now cabinet members, blocked the then government, not with parliamentarian option, but GH squatting, airport siege, unrest.

if abhisit is that great "nation unity" hero, he could be the man, the mediator , bring PPP and yellow at one table, during the 2008 crisis. but he did just wait.

there have possebilties to do so. the dislike for samak understandable (but more from a liberal position, than a royalist one) at first sondhi was open for somchai, but later changed his mind.

i wish abhisit where such a man of action. he is just a good teachers boy. do what was him told. the newin deal was done by suthep, a dirty one.

he could have build up a network between the younger parlamentarians, the fresh enthusiastic people, before they learn the dirty tricks of politics.. in PPP they are not all thaksins puppets. only abhisit is sitting in his trench and comes with handsome face propaganda. he maybe innocent, but he isn't the one who hold the steering wheel. he is still very old politics. families with names, decorate themself with a MP label, run the country as exclusive old boys club.

Make chalerm and his twisted kin the only "government for life"...then! You'll have something to moan about!

[Journalist]

I didn't go and see Thaksin speak by television at the Hong Kong Foreign Correspondents Club. A friend did (a banker), this is what happened....

" I went to listen to Thaksin speak, and he asked the audience not to ask him any questions about his personal life, but to concentrate on the topics in his presentation. Of course, no one listened to him and he was asked repeatedly about his willingness to spend time in jail, to go through the Thai “justice” system, etc. One of the topics he spoke about in his presentation was the need to overhaul the financial regulatory system. So, I asked him to be a bit more specific about what he thought was wrong with the regulatory system and what he proposed to fix. He spent the next five minutes praising me for being the only person who listened to what he said and for asking about the substance of his speech. But, he never even got close to answering my question….!!"

[animatic]

Keep on point of his choice of topic,

so he need not answer REAL questions that matter.

[samgrowth]

It's about time that PAD party, and Chamlong lead Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

I didn't go and see Thaksin speak by television at the Hong Kong Foreign Correspondents Club. A friend did (a banker), this is what happened....

" I went to listen to Thaksin speak, and he asked the audience not to ask him any questions about his personal life, but to concentrate on the topics in his presentation. Of course, no one listened to him and he was asked repeatedly about his willingness to spend time in jail, to go through the Thai “justice” system, etc. One of the topics he spoke about in his presentation was the need to overhaul the financial regulatory system. So, I asked him to be a bit more specific about what he thought was wrong with the regulatory system and what he proposed to fix. He spent the next five minutes praising me for being the only person who listened to what he said and for asking about the substance of his speech. But, he never even got close to answering my question….!!"

Interesting that the financial system was one of his major issues. There was a certain democrat MP connected to the financial industry very close to the PAD at the very beginning of the protests who moved into the background very fast after they got their photo taken marching with Sondhi.

The opening up the Thai financial system is possibly the holy grail. Land and House got a license, which was the first license issued for donkey's years. Ironically however, by keeping the dastardly foreign banks off their patch, they have saved themselves from the brunt of the sub-prime rubbish. He maybe just simply trying to get support from foreign business, but there are some people with an awful lot to lose if that industry ever got opened up.

As I have said before, when nonsensical things happen in Thailand, money is probably the reason. It is just that this idiotic behaviour on all sides has been going on for a couple of years that makes it so unusual for Thailand. Normally, a suitcase under the table solves the problem, but it appears not any more.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Scott]

I was talking with a friend who is a mid-level manager in a factory. He told me that right now importing things is very costly. No longer is there a little money given to an official--there is a lot of money given to a high level officials. Then they might just not release the good for a while.

He described the situation in 'officialdom' as being 'out of control.'

[Thai at Heart]

I was talking with a friend who is a mid-level manager in a factory. He told me that right now importing things is very costly. No longer is there a little money given to an official--there is a lot of money given to a high level officials. Then they might just not release the good for a while.

He described the situation in 'officialdom' as being 'out of control.'

Obviously certain keepers of the stamp got their noses pushed out of the trough during Thaksin's time. Just making up for lost time and returning to the natural order of things. The port and customs are the worst of all in this place.

[Journalist]

Ironically however, by keeping the dastardly foreign banks off their patch, they have saved themselves from the brunt of the sub-prime rubbish.

Or as Dr Marc Faber puts it.....

"The local banks were too stupid to understand and buy any of the structured products that Lehman was trying to sell them!"

[Thai at Heart]

Ironically however, by keeping the dastardly foreign banks off their patch, they have saved themselves from the brunt of the sub-prime rubbish.

Or as Dr Marc Faber puts it.....

"The local banks were too stupid to understand and buy any of the structured products that Lehman was trying to sell them!"

No real need to do it, when the Thai banks can survive perfectly well on the spreads that they charge. Plus charging 100 baht for a piece of printed paper helps also.

[Koo82]

This cartoon only mentions 2 who help Abhisit. Media and some more are helping him.

When he needs help from these powers, he is not in actual control and he cannot decide. He does not dare to say heavy things to PAD.

[MikeWill]

Koo82

You must be a proud Thai!

[helvetian]

It's about time that PAD party, and Chamlong lead Thailand.

Chamlong and the PAD, who obviously believe that seizing and closing one of the world's largest airports for a week didn't effectively ruining Thailand's import/export and tourism ..leading Thailand? What mental hospital are you staying in again?

Edited April 30, 2009 by helvetian

[webfact]

This cartoon only mentions 2 who help Abhisit. Media and some more are helping him.

When he needs help from these powers, he is not in actual control and he cannot decide. He does not dare to say heavy things to PAD.

My hero is John Winston Ono Lennon...

Do you know him? Then listen to one specific song, that one with the "peace"...

[Plus]

After 1997 foreign banks were allowed to buy anything they want here. Later Thaksin has enforced financial master plan that limited them to operating just one branch or selling majority to Thai partners.

I'd be very sceptical about him talking financial deregulation.

[animatic]

After 1997 foreign banks were allowed to buy anything they want here. Later Thaksin has enforced financial master plan that limited them to operating just one branch or selling majority to Thai partners.

I'd be very sceptical about him talking financial deregulation.

Deregulation in Thaksionomics is anything that Benefits Thaksin and his cronies.

It was obvious to be all about advantage on the larger playing field.

Get outside money, but control it, and then milk it for all it was worth.

Mr Monson of the communications business found out how

Thaksin thinks about this mechanism.

We took your money and tools now go home.

This is Thailand and I run it, get lost.

He did do things that didn't directly benefit his own bank balance,

but it ALWAYS benefited his POWER through cementing stronger relationships with other powers,

in the short term. In the long term it was always Thaksinomics for Thaksins benefit.

Edited May 1, 2009 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

After 1997 foreign banks were allowed to buy anything they want here. Later Thaksin has enforced financial master plan that limited them to operating just one branch or selling majority to Thai partners.

I'd be very sceptical about him talking financial deregulation.

Still very limited participation, limitations on branches, limitations on ATM's, and capital limitations on foreign banks . I wonder how much some of these banks would have been willing to pay Thaksin to liberalise these rules.

Extra competition in the retail banking sector wouldn't have been welcomed by some very important families.

[animatic]

Just calling it 'Thaksinomics' shows up the utter hubris he was living with.

Attempting to compare himself to Reagan and creating a whole

'new' monetary method named after himself.

Edited May 1, 2009 by animatic

[HagenvonTronje]

Just calling it 'Thaksinomics' shows up the utter hubris he was living with.

Attempting to compare himself to Reagan and creating a whole

'new' monetary method named after himself.

no, he didn't, the term thaksinomics was coined by observers not by the system itself. you got that wrong. take a seat.

[animatic]

Just calling it 'Thaksinomics' shows up the utter hubris he was living with.

Attempting to compare himself to Reagan and creating a whole

'new' monetary method named after himself.

no, he didn't, the term thaksinomics was coined by observers not by the system itself. you got that wrong. take a seat.

He heard it, and adopted it for his own use.

He was promoting his own style of economics,

and some pundit branded it for him and he went with it.

In the end it was just a Kleptocracy.

[clausewitz]

Ricardo,

How did he become "criminal"? His wife bought a piece of land. Court said no fault what so ever. Land is still hers. Seller has no fault as well. He became criminal because he was PM and was her husband at the same time.

Is it worth the efforts? Bringing Thailand to be a joke just to knock one man?

This is such a lie. The land has already been returned to that gov't agency that sold it to her. The land was returned because the sale was judged as a void by the court. The money was given back to Potjaman.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/211008_News/21Oct2008_news06.php

Land case sets a precedent for officials

State employees now have to abide by the anti-corruption law, writes Parista Yuthamanop

Today's Supreme Court verdict in the Ratchadaphisek land case is certain to have a major impact on the political landscape.

The ASC, an ad-hoc body formed after the military staged a coup in 2006, allege Mr Thaksin and his wife violated the National Counter Corruption Act by bidding for the plot.

Khunying Potjaman lodged the winning bid for the land in December 2003 in an auction run by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF), a unit of the Bank of Thailand. The FIDF took ownership of the land in 1995 to cover the losses of the defunct Erawan Trust, with a book value for the property of two billion baht.

The winning bid lodged by Khunying Potjaman was 772 million baht, or 58,000 baht per square wah. The auction was the second held by the FIDF for the land - the first auction was handled electronically in July 2003.

Three bids were received, with Khunying Potjaman's bid beating a 750 million baht offer by Noble Development Plc and a 730 million bid by Land & Houses Plc.

The FIDF and the central bank were reluctant players in the ASC investigation. One point of dispute is whether the FIDF is under the authority of the prime minister.

Officials insist that they were unaware of the bidders' identities until the final bids were submitted.

"The FIDF realised that it was the prime minister's wife only when her name appeared on the bidding document. We did not suspect that the bid was illegal because the auction rules say it is the bidder's responsibility to ensure their eligibility to participate," said one former FIDF executive.

Another point in dispute is over the bid itself. At 58,000 baht per square wah, the price was in line with official property valuations set by the Treasury Department from 2000 to 2003. Valuations were revised upwards in 2004 to 62,000 baht per square wah by the department.

Sopon Pornchokechai, the president of Thai Appraisal Foundation, said the prosecution should have paid more attention to the market value of the land.

"While the court case centers on the legal aspects of the transaction, it should also have a clear explanation on whether the government lost from the deal. The public should be well informed about the auction price in comparison with the market price," he said.

An urban planning expert also questioned the ultimate value of the property. Zoning rules implemented from 2003 imposed greater restrictions in terms of construction and the use of floor space relative to a given land area, limiting the potential value of any subsequent development.

In 1989 the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration ruled that the area near the Thailand Cultural Centre be limited to buildings of no more than nine storeys. That rule was overturned by a new planning act that came into force this year.

The fact that Noble and Land & Houses, two of the country's most prominent property developers, also participated in the final bidding also raises doubt about allegations of collusion.

Manop Bongsadadt, a lecturer at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Architecture, said the fact that listed companies joined the bid should indicate that the auction was transparent.

"I believe it was an open bid. Listed companies participating in the auction would have had to determine the market price of the land and seek board approval," Assoc Prof Manop said. "The tender prices should be no more than 5% to 10% different."

[Plus]

I believe some facts are mixed up in this article - zoning rules implemented/amended a few days after the sale allowed a high rise building on that particular site.

Also, participation of two [biggest] property developers who were very close to Thaksin administration rather raises the suspision of collusion than dispells it. It would be very naive they didn't know the identities of other bidding parties.

Besides, in relation to Thaksin the court didn't have to prove the alleged bid rigging - simple fact of his wife's participation was illegal.

Political office holders answer to different set of rules than simple citizens, largely because of the power they have over investigating and prosecuting agencies.

[DaleBlue]

Who is controlling PAD? Sondhi or Chamlong?

[chrislarsson]

I believe some facts are mixed up in this article - zoning rules implemented/amended a few days after the sale allowed a high rise building on that particular site.

Also, participation of two [biggest] property developers who were very close to Thaksin administration rather raises the suspision of collusion than dispells it. It would be very naive they didn't know the identities of other bidding parties.

Besides, in relation to Thaksin the court didn't have to prove the alleged bid rigging - simple fact of his wife's participation was illegal.

Political office holders answer to different set of rules than simple citizens, largely because of the power they have over investigating and prosecuting agencies.

But the issue is that it is the bid rigging that upsets people, not the participation in itself.