News on visa detentions

[twentyfourhoursx7]

MAXIUM OVERSTAY PAYMENT IS BHT20,000

LOOSE THE PASSPORT AND APPLY FOR NEW ONE BUT YOU HAVE TO GO TO THAI EMBASSY TO GET IT VERIFIED AND STAMPED

SO EXPECT TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY SAME DAY

HAVE AIRLINE TICKET IN HAND TO SHOW THEM SO YOU DONT SPEND THE NIGHT IN JAIL

[simon43]

Watching topless dancing is one thing but to pay someone to take your passport (highly important document!) and put a fake or illegal stamp in it to mislead the authorities of the country where you are a 'guest' is surely completely different.

And as for riding a motorbike without a crash helmet - stupidity beyond belief....i have no sympathy whatsoever when you end up with a mashed head...: same applies if you dont wear protective clothes when riding a bike. Just because its hot weather don't make you superhuman....

Let's be quite clear - would you do any of this in England or the US? Why should you be able to get away with it in Thailand?

[sinbadsailor]

I used a visa agent about 2 years ago, left the country and came back via Don-Muang with a clean airport stamp, maybe my stamps from a couple of years ago are fake but my current one in kosher. Will I have a problems on leaving???

All my stamps are from Kota Baru and not Sadao if this helps.

Cheers

[lordsux]

I wouldnt take the risk if I were you, if anyone has a slight suspicion that they may have a bad stamp then I would not recommend attempting going through immigration. Apparently its not just the last/current stamp they are looking for.

It wouldnt suprise me if the Immigration officers are getting some kind of financial reward for each person they catch with a dodgy stamp, which in turn would make them a lot more vigilant than they normally are.

The Sadao stamp is not the only fake, I learnt that after a recent experience with BKK Immigration.

[PK2]

>No-one can be so naive to believe that there is nothing dodgy ....

I have always thought the visa run companies were dodgy, and never used them,  but I am sure some have duped unsuspecting foreigners into the scam which genuine looking advertisements in the press and on the net. I hink some sympathy i needed here. It wasn?t so long ago that visa run shop in Sukhumvit Soi23 ran into trouble after running an open business for some time.

>I never let my passport out of my sight!

I have mailed my passport all around the world for work purposes and nothing illegal in at all so I don't understand you comments.

[ovenman]

>I never let my passport out of my sight!

I have mailed my passport all around the world for work purposes and nothing illegal in at all so I don't understand you comments.

Agreed.  Many business travellers don't have the time to chase around to every embassy/consulate for required visas so they mail their passports.  I know that in Washington, DC there are visa expediters who will do the legwork for you.  I'm sure these agencies exist elsewhere.  Sure, it's not the same as having a Khao San Road agency take care of an entry/exit stamp for you but it's certainly in that same vein of the third-party handler who can get that visa for you, quickly.

[bangkokblue]

'He who casts the first stone'

The non sympathizers on this thread will also no doubt not admit having been partisan to any other knowingly illegal activity in the LOS. Virtually impossible i'd say,and that's after 34yrs of trying.  You Bad stamp guys have my total sympathy i for one will be in full support of my countrymen in true 'Brit' grit. Good luck guys.

[pschef]

just for imformation. I was sent by a Thai company to Singapore, I and many Thais together  told to submit our passports on arrival at the sea port. Only one farrang guy refused to submit his passport, he was subsequently fired of the job. I got my passport back when we all reentered Thai Waters, complete with all required visas. I came of the Crew boat in sattahip, no visa check whatsoever. I then applied for my work permit and it was granted, are we so stupid to think otherwise. Do you really think this is about dodgy stamps? one of my friends American guy said he never really saw his passport unless going on vacation to USA. He says the company do all? what is this all about for goodness sake. The rules apply when and if they feel like it. Don't listen to everything you read in posts, some people deserve what they get, some people just follow company rules. I can give names places and times, if it suits my cause. let them say those stamps are not Jing Jing. I am the real thing boys

[Rambutan]

Pschef, you've got it. They apply when and if they feel like it.

100%

[DaveYo]

Well then fellas, if this is the case, whew, after reading of one member here looking at 6 years and out on bail, and his experience and advice.

I would suppose lets all get this together, and list all the places that are legal to go to and that they (Immigrations) have the legit stamps.  We expats should know this most importantly because I don't think anyone wants to do anything wrong or if we do we have severe consequences to face in the long run.

So lets make this list and post it so that we all expats can go and have a peace of mind.

Anybody agree on this?

:blues:

Oh and by the way I am not one to make advisories but make suggestions or comments.  There are more Senior individuals who are very intelligent and very well informed to give the right advice to anyone here, and to name a few Dr. PP, and George.  What they say I trust cause they know precisely the rules and regulations.

:cool:

[DaveYo]

Maigo6, sorry I cannot advise anyone to "wash" their passport, nor back such activity.  I am out of this part.  

I not want to be blamed for it.

:blues:

[foolwholaughsatdeath]

Couple comments...

1.  On the lack of sympathy of some members:  This is not surprising, despite lots of people potentially facing years in Thai prisons for using a visa agent.  A while back on a different thread a guy who had been attacked by a taxi driver with a machete (his friend even losing an eye) received no sympathy.  Apparently there are those among us who are perfect, have never made a mistake or been caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and have no heart at all for the plight of their fellow man.  Tam dii, dai dii.. Tam chua, dai chua..

2.  I keep reading about the upcoming expat's club (I have not been yet) in various places (here, bkk post).  Supposedly a member of Bangkok's finest will be at Bourban Street on Sunday to talk about the broad topic of visas.  I wonder if he will have any iinformation about what corrective steps can be taken to get those with visa problems legal.. short of being hauled off to eat red rice for 1 to 10 years that is.

[capital]

Dr. patpong,

Why is it that whenever I read your posts I sense you're really out here to deffend anything Thai. Is it that you're a multimillionnaire and look the people not as fortunate as you down you nose, or perhaps you're Mr. Perfect, or perhaps you've lived here a bit too long and feel Thai in your inner self or perhaps had a hard time in the west.... can't you be a bit more realistic as a moderator of this forum? BTW, Before you start lashing out at me, I am totally legal in los and I am fortunate enough to be successful in this beautiful country!

Fellow expats are jailed, attacked by taxi drivers etc.... and you seem to be very quick at condmning the farang, and often failing to have an in-depth look at both sides of the story. Have some heart mister!

[bangkokblue]

foolwholaughsatdeath @ Capital, Thank you for those contributions. The message to these guys must be made clear that we are behind them and they have this forum's support.

[MaiChai]

Things seem to have gone rather quiet on this. Anyone heard of anyone being detained for illegal stamps, etc?

[catseyeland]

I have read a lot of to and fro discussions on the issue of the Thai visa runs and how some people stated that the people that have been caught are STUPID or GULLABLE, well to set the record straight, I was one of those so called stupid, gullible people.

Except, I went into a travel, agency to book a visa run for myself and was told that I need not go as they could do it for me, I even asked if this was legal and they replied, "you not worry, it is ok, we do this all the time, there is no problem, you not worry".

Well, I excepted that they would do this and that they would be placing a valid stamp into my passport.

I had used this service twice, but then the prices went up from 1500 baht for a 30 day visa to 1900 baht for only ten days, this is the reason that I chose to do the next visa run myself.

On arrival at the border, I went through the Thai border into Malaysia, out of Malaysia again and went to come back into Thailand, then to my surprise when I went to come back into Thailand, I was detained and told to wait.

I sat down next to two Brits, a Swiss guy, a French guy and a Canadian guy all with the same problem.

After waiting, waiting, waiting, we were told that we would be held in a jail over night and then taken to court where we would be fined and released.

On arrival, we were met with some policemen (question mark) that were all trashed on whiskey and out of control.  I had my eyebrow pierced and one of the officers was flicking it pointing at me and muttering things at me which I made out to be "what is this", I told him that it was decoration, he then sexually threatened me with anal sex.

I contacted my girlfriend in the UK with my mobile phone and told her to get onto the British embassy telling her what was going on.  All the time they were trying to remove my phone from my possession, I managed to keep it as long as it took me to format the Sim card and phone.

We were all thrown into jail with some very weird guys (all Thai) that were trying to take our possessions, I stood my ground but some of the others did not and lost some of their most cherished gifts.

We spent three days in this jail, were forced to sign papers that we could not read, fed no edible food and given no water.

We had to buy our way out of the jail into court and buy our way into a speedy court case.  We applied for bail, which was set at 200,000 baht (around £3,400).

From the jail we went to a prison, where we stayed for 5 days, then back to court (in shackles and chains) then from there to another jail for 30 hours (worse than the one before, even though we all paid for pillows, blankets and comfortable surroundings) this place was ####, dark, dingy, cockroaches everywhere and well over-crowded.  Even more so that the Prison, where the rooms were about 10 meters by 10 meters with around 80 inmates per room.

After the last jail we were sent to the IDC (Immigration Detention Centre) for a further 5 days (minimum) 7 (maximum).

So all in all, for all those pretentious people with all their views on this issue (because you're not in the same situation), it is not just the stupid or GULLABLE people that are being caught, also as the Thai's are stating, these people are being viewed as UNWELCOME TOURISTS.  Well, maybe all the countries being persecuted for the Thai's corruption should stop being Thai Tourists altogether for a while.

Anybody with a pretentious answer, should maybe do it to the faces of all of the people caught up in this trap.

The whole reason Thailand is doing so well is because of US FARANGS, so why shoot themselves in the foot and if that is what they want to do, then let the Farangs show them that they too can be prosecuted for this.

Otherwise, stop going to Thailand and go somewhere else hey?

I had a Life there, helped restaurants with menu's, taught English foods to them, made a lot of friends and was offered numerous business opportunities, also owned a boat, bike and had a house, so I was there for the culture and experience, regardless of what the Thai government says.  I had only been in Thailand for 6 months, not years like others.  I was eventually deported and blacklisted from Thailand for 99 years.

As you can tell, I am a little upset to hear that Farangs (not just British) are being held responsible for crimes that are after all being committed by Thai people.

I have not heard that the person actually responsible for placing the stamps onto all these passports has been caught, BUT, rest assured and believe me, that I have the name of the person who placed them there and the police officer who took (well at least mine and all from Ko Phang Nan) these passports to the border , I am going to make sure that the people actually responsible are charged, not just FARANGS!!!!

Sorry it has been a little long, but I think I have gotten my point across.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL YOU OUT THERE!!!

If you have any idea that your stamp is fake, lose your passport, burn it, and apply for a new passport from your embassy and say it has been lost ok?

Best wishes....from a Jail Bird.

Bye for now

P.S. It's not just about false visas.  When i was in Thai prison, I met a German guy who went for a trip with a friend to Hat Yai and forgot his passport.  He had presently been in that jail for 7 weeks and was possibly looking at a sentence for just forgetting to keep his passport on him.

[seville]

Hey Catseyeland,

Was it a travel agent in Thongsala? I got a stamp once and am back in the states and will be getting a new passport. I have a lot of friends who were going to a place in Thongsala.

Sorry to hear about your situation. The ordeal in Jail was bad enough, but not to be able to go back to the island must be painful as it sounds like you had a good life there.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am a voice in the wilderness Capital and only adding a smigeon of balance here....by no means achieving 50/50. You condone illegality without reservation. If I have been here too long, perhaps you have a way to go yet.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sinbad who'd know...but ' dodgy ' visa stamps were rarely a feature on ' crossing ' with visa agents 2 years ago. As far as I am aware, the stamps were real and the agents actually paid money to Thai and Malaysian officials. If you are worried get a new p/pt they won't be checking back that far.

[ovenman]

I've never used one of these visa services myself but that was also the impression I had, i.e. the stamps were all legal but they were obtained through dodgy circumstances.  At some point, some of the more shady operators must have decided that they could just have some rubber stamps made and cut the immigrations people out of the loop, keeping their cut of the money for themselves.

[ovenman]

P.S. It's not just about false visas.  When i was in Thai prison, I met a German guy who went for a trip with a friend to Hat Yai and forgot his passport.  He had presently been in that jail for 7 weeks and was possibly looking at a sentence for just forgetting to keep his passport on him.

Does anybody know anything definitive about this issue?  I recall reading somewhere a while back that not having your passport with you at all times was not a crime in and of itself but the police could detain you until that passport could be produced.  I don't recall the source of this information but I do recall that it was somebody passing the word along as opposed to being official or even pseudo-official.  Conceptually, this is reasonable though.

Anybody know the real story?

[sting01]

2 000 years ago, someone said : those who are innocent can throw the first rock ...

50/50 is a nice though Pat Pong, but if you read (have you?) there is nothing involved with 50/50, but only individual story. It's a human personn who see suddently his life became shitt ... there is nothing to deal with statistic ... and it can happend easily to everyboddy you include (I don't wish you that, don't misunderstand me).

More than all the criteria set by the different laws , there is something who is very important to get a visa (or don'tget). It's up to the immigration officer to give it or refuse it. It's not new, it's writing on the law and that is.

By recent experience, my last 22 runs (start to be enough to speak about experience), I remenber spend some hours with some immigration officers, and only about 5mn with some others. It depend of many factors, how you look, how polite you are, depend if you go the good day (many tourist or quiet time) ... it coul be many reasons for that.

I always use the same border for my visa run, and I am well know by the immigration oficers from both countries (not many with my nationalities pass there I guess), the only advice/warning I get recently was : next time , it could be be better to realy leave during 24 h/48 hours mean spend one evening + a night + a morning outside the kingdom. He remenber the law say : the foreigner must leave the kingdom and are able to re enter after one day. (have you forget that Dr IKNOWALL_ILOOKDOWN?).

About loose passport, I amfar to be sure it can be a solution, if too many people loose it on the same time ....

Now, just to make things funny, those who have "fake" or supposed fake stamps, why don't go directly to your embassy/consulate and ask them to help you to fill a complain against the agencies who did it? SI VIS PACEM PARABELLUM .... You were cheated by Thai national, thai firmm and thai officials (immigration oficers) you are not guilty, but victims ...whatever if caught it will be like #### for yoou, then why not a little bit of fun, and maybe you can find a middle way , I am far to be sure Thai goverment need this kind of advertising.

Sting

Roxannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne

Message in the bottle

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ovenman Get a copy of your passports main page and your arrival page and TM Card and carry that istead. It is better if you have your Embassy / Consulate certify it as a true copy.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So that sting knows, the majority of visa agents were farang and not Thai people. It does however sound as though he is one of the people without any visa whatsoever. A border walker on a 30 day basis.  A practice soon to be outlawed.

[sinbadsailor]

Sinbad who'd know...but ' dodgy ' visa stamps were rarely a feature on ' crossing ' with visa agents 2 years ago. As far as I am aware, the stamps were real and the agents actually paid money to Thai and Malaysian officials. If you are worried get a new p/pt they won't be checking back that far.

I've left and come back twice myself with these stamps in my PP and no questions asked. Everyone seems to be getting very paranoid, I reckon I'll be OK.

[ovenman]

the only advice/warning I get recently was : next time , it could be be better to realy leave during 24 h/48 hours mean spend one evening + a night + a morning outside the kingdom. He remenber the law say : the foreigner must leave the kingdom and are able to re enter after one day.

I'm not doubting your story but I've never heard anybody mention this rule.  At face value, this would make any day trip to a border town illegal.  Anybody else ever have an immigrations oficer quote it to them?

[parryhandy]

Sinbad who'd know...but ' dodgy ' visa stamps were rarely a feature on ' crossing ' with visa agents 2 years ago. As far as I am aware, the stamps were real and the agents actually paid money to Thai and Malaysian officials. If you are worried get a new p/pt they won't be checking back that far.

I've left and come back twice myself with these stamps in my PP and no questions asked. Everyone seems to be getting very paranoid, I reckon I'll be OK.

well if i had done it i would not take any chances.words gone out to throw the book at offenders and i would think theres even some kind of reward for officials that catch these people in known crossing places.its clever thinking really after reading the post from catseyeland who is ever going to take any chances now.the thais dont have to go after their own people who are corrupt which is always hard to prove because with this sort of publicity ie even naive people getting jail time word gets out and like i say no one is  going to risk it therefore achieving the aim.

[DaveYo]

Dr. PP  Can you clarify the precise meaning concerning visa runs in regards to LEAVING AND RETURNING.   Is is true that the law states you must leave the country minimum 24 hours and then you can return?  Or can you exit the country and return same day or within the hour like a turn around?

We need a clarification from an official source.   Once it is clarified and confirmed then we all should abide on it.

Immigrations is on a tear to all foreigners.  Something happened to make them get so hard core to the foreigners and the top brass is not saying a peep to anybody as to what set their tickers off.

You know that those who did visa runs for the foreigners are in fact Thai people.  You know that they had this service going on for quite some time.  Also these Thai people had shops catering to the foreigners concerning visas.  The Government has known that these existed, and has known they (Thai people) were doing it illegally.   So whose fault is it, Us or the Government for letting it go for so long without fanfare.

In my opinion the government is just as guilty for not setting the proper tempo in closing the illegal shops which ran for many years when it became known to them that it was operating an illegal business.  Even now they are not closing these shops.  I wonder about this part.  Are they too scared to act upon their own people?

That is why I suggested an amnesty program because the Government tripped upon themselves big time, and that they should share the responsibility for the same mistakes, and not be throwing the book at us.

:blues: ???

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Not their own people Dave ...the agents were farangs mostly, and almost all have ' fled the scene '. There is no official stay out of the Kingdom time for valid visa holders crossing a border. The persistent no visa people walking across borders are going to find it increasingly more difficult. Thailand has an international obligation to secure its borders and ensuring people have real and valid visa's are part of that.

[Bob Chittie]

Watching topless dancing is one thing but to pay someone to take your passport (highly important document!) and put a fake or illegal stamp in it to mislead the authorities of the country where you are a 'guest' is surely completely different.

And as for riding a motorbike without a crash helmet - stupidity beyond belief....i have no sympathy whatsoever when you end up with a mashed head...: same applies if you dont wear protective clothes when riding a bike. Just because its hot weather don't make you superhuman....

Let's be quite clear - would you do any of this in England or the US? Why should you be able to get away with it in Thailand?

Okay, what about soliciciting prostitution. Whether you partake in this activity or not, would you agree that the authorities have more or less given you the green light to indulge should you wish? If they suddenly decided to arrest you, there could be serious charges. Would not a fair warning be in order first?