150 Baht Atm Withdrawl Fee.. Does It Matter?

[Geekfreaklover]

Of course 150 baht matters. Its the the equivalent of half a days work for most of the employees in the bank. Its a lot of money here. Tourists who use their cards on holiday will not be impressed on top of the currency exchange it will hurt, especillay if they are drawing out small amounts at a time.

[Briggsy]

Is it a rip-off? Yes

Is it a huge amount that will hurt me financially? No

Is it worth me changing my ATM habits slightly so I save 2,000 Baht a month? Yes

Is it worth me reading a discussion forum that tells me that a certain 3 banks are not yet implementing the charge? Yes

Am I thankful that some altruistic people take the time to share this information on ThaiVisa? Yes

[kiakaha]

But, most non-Thais who live in Thailand also will have ATM cards from their home countries, and would be foolish to spend 150 baht on every withdrawal when they don't have to...

therefore they should just wire money into their local thai bank accounts and use their local thai debit cards, as legal foreign residents there should be no problem getting a local thai bank account (unless they are one of these "tourist visa residents")

the cost of 1 wire per month, coupled with the loss of any monthly interest from the foriegn account for the wire amount should still should still be less than say 3 or 4 150 Baht ATM cash withdrawls of 20K per hit using your foriegn card.

and of course, those that work and get paid in thailand already have some money in their thai accounts, hence no issues.

.

it is touriists that will get hit , and like i've said before, 150 baht in the context of their 2-3 week holiday is really an afterthought

[jfchandler]

KK, your math is pretty far off, regarding the cost of international wire transfers...

Most U.S. banks are charging anywhere between $40 and $60 for international wire transfers, regardless of the amount sent, apart from the smaller fees the receiving Thai banks here charge.

Given that the current 150 baht fee works out to about $4.25 U.S., that means you'd have to do more than 10 ATM transactions, at the maximum amount allowed each time, before a wire would become more cost effective.

There are exceptions, such as some banks that dont charge so much or at all.. But those are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to international wires from the U.S.

And then, there is the ability to do low cost online transfers to the BKK Bank branch in New York... But that only works for U.S. folks who know about it and how to do it (I suspect most people don't), and hasnt always been dependable in the past.

The simple question remains... why pay BKK, SCB or the others 150 baht for every foreign card ATM withdrawals when you can avoid the fee entirely by using Kasikorn, Ayudhya or GSB ATMS????

If you like to blow 150 baht every time for no reason, I'd be happy to take the cash off your hands....

[canopy]

I live in Thailand and do not have a Thai bank account. Being in the "minority" does not make dealing with these charges any easier so please do not dismiss and marginalize people in these circumstances. We do exist. Furthermore, a poll may be useful to understand to what extent expats have or do not have a bank account.

[Macx]

jfchandler, thanks for mentioning the BKK Bank branch in NY. I remember reading something about that a couple of years ago.

I have a Bangkok Bank savings account in Thailand (Bangkok). How would I go about doing an online transfer from my internet bank (US based) to my Bangkok Bank account?

BTW, thanks for all the updates and info regarding ATM, rates and money transfer!

[jfchandler]

There have been lots of posts and threads here about the BKK Bank transfer capability.... You can do a search to read more...

But basically, it's pretty simple. Go into your U.S. online banking account, do a search to add Bangkok Bank as one of your linked banks. That should produce the ABA # for BKK Bank's New York Office... (You can also find the ABA # on various of the pertinent threads here and even on BKK Bank's web site.

Use the ABA # and your BKK Bank Thailand account number... just like you would to link a U.S. account. That typically will lead your U.S. bank to do a trial deposits verification. Wait a couple days, then call BKK bank's customer service hotline here, and ask them to give you the U.S. dollar amounts for the two small deposits that have showed up into your Thai account (in baht).

Then, take those two small $ amounts, go back into your U.s. online account, and enter the trial deposits amount to verify your link. After that, you should be able to do transfers from your U.s. account to the bkK bank New York office just like you'd do any ACH. The only difference will be once they arrive at the New York Office, they then use your Thailand account number to route to your thai account here.

[dominator]

Bank Of Ayudhya (the yellow one) works for me, no charges using my UK debit card.

I have Thai bank accounts as well, but keep them very low at the moment, due to the pathetic exchange rate.

[Macx]

Well, mucho thanks jfchandler, that was a super explanation!

Cheers!

[Priceless]

KK, your math is pretty far off, regarding the cost of international wire transfers...

Most U.S. banks are charging anywhere between $40 and $60 for international wire transfers, regardless of the amount sent, apart from the smaller fees the receiving Thai banks here charge.

Given that the current 150 baht fee works out to about $4.25 U.S., that means you'd have to do more than 10 ATM transactions, at the maximum amount allowed each time, before a wire would become more cost effective.

There are exceptions, such as some banks that dont charge so much or at all.. But those are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to international wires from the U.S.

And then, there is the ability to do low cost online transfers to the BKK Bank branch in New York... But that only works for U.S. folks who know about it and how to do it (I suspect most people don't), and hasnt always been dependable in the past.

The simple question remains... why pay BKK, SCB or the others 150 baht for every foreign card ATM withdrawals when you can avoid the fee entirely by using Kasikorn, Ayudhya or GSB ATMS????

If you like to blow 150 baht every time for no reason, I'd be happy to take the cash off your hands....

That was quite an eye opener for me. I'm used to my less greedy (Swedish) bank, which charges $5 US for international transfers up to a maximum of $12,500 US (their daily limit for international internet transfers).

I think you should get at your US bank, not the Thai ones

/ Priceless

[jfchandler]

Re international wires, I suspect, U.s. banks don't do too many, so their high fees reflects that... Plus, they're just soaking folks with fees. Domestic wires these days tend to be $25 or so by comparison, depending on the bank. Each bank is different, and each sets their own fees. Needless to say, there are exceptions to the rates I've mentioned. But I deal with a lot of banks, and the amounts I mention are pretty good averages.... Thus, I'm less than interested in sending wires to Thailand...

[rch1023]

It won't generate more revenue for the fee-charging banks if their expat customers, including myself, cease being their customers and move our business to non-fee banks, or use non-ATM alternatives such as in-branch transactions that actually will end up costing those banks more.

But more broadly, these kinds of moves do indeed contribute to an anti-tourist, anti-foreigner impression in the country that is just about the last thing it needs right now. The Thai Bankers Assn. couldn't have been worse in their timing.

"By adopting the 150 baht fee, the Thai Bankers Assn. was obviously trying to generate more revenue for the banks...The whole thing makes no practical sense."

Of course it does, and you mentioned it in your very first sentence: the fee is to generate more revenue for the banks. With an average of 20,000 affected transactions per day, it's an extra 3 million THB/day

While the sentiments expressed above seem superficially sensible, I am not sure that they will work that way in practice.

I already have an ATM cash card for use in connection with one of my Kasikorn Bank accounts. I also have a Nationwide Flex Account cash card which I have been in the habit of using at any local machine accepting Cirrus cards. Very frequently that has been a machine belonging to or operated by Bangkok Bank. The result of the new charge has been that I have opened a new (additional) account at Bangkok Bank so as to gain one of their ATM cash cards (which I have not previously held) and have dumped a few tens of thousands of Baht in that new account by way of a working float.

So, although my regard for Kasikorn Bank has been improved as a result of the fact that they have chosen not (yet) to implement the charge, it is Bangkok Bank which has gained extra business from me.

However, this really is a risible storm in a teacup. Why is it assumed that any bank has any obligation to provide any free or subsidised service to any person who is not their banking customer? In UK I usually get free use of ATM machines if they are operated by a bank which issues or is associated with the relevant card. But there are plenty of machines (especially in "convenience" locations) where a £1.50 charge is standard. I believe that the average tourist in Thailand will not find the charge remarkable or objectionable. An expat living locally who keeps his money in a local bank will similarly have no cause for complaint. Of course, the expats who choose to take advantage of cheap local living while keeping their money banked outside Thailand will suffer to some minor extent, but that is a matter of choice for them.

For anybody to suggest that these new charges are a sign that Thailand in general is engaged in some kind of anti-tourist or anti-farang conspiracy is ludicrous and paranoid.

My drawings on my UK bank are somehow limited to 10,000 baht. Against this, a fee of 150 baht is 1.5%, which is quite reasonable, but a great surprise when you don't expect it.

However, this is loaded onto my UK drawings. And as best as I can work it out, my (HSBC) bank is charging me 2% on overseas drawings, totalling 3.5%. At the usual HSBC bad rate of exchange.

I can accept a fee for international ATM drawings, but this is all getting a bit much. HSBC used to charge me 2.50 GBP for each drawing, but now it has gone up to 4.10 GBP, and the 10,000 baht used to be worth half as much again as it is now. I'm now getting charged twice as much for two thirds the money, and it hurts.

Don't blame Thailand - read this:--

Q. What distinguishes well-known radio and TV broadcaster Sir Terry Wogan from:

Lord Stevenson (former chairman HBOS);

Andy Hornby (former chief exec HBOS);

Sir Fred Goodwin (former chief exec, Royal Bank of Scotland );

Sir Tom McKillop (former chairman, Royal Bank of Scotland );

John McFall M.P. (Chair of Treasury Select Committee);

Alistair Darling (Chancellor of the Exchequer.

A. Sir Terry has a banking qualification!

- Roger -

[kiakaha]

KK, your math is pretty far off, regarding the cost of international wire transfers...

Most U.S. banks are charging anywhere between $40 and $60 for international wire transfers, regardless of the amount sent, apart from the smaller fees the receiving Thai banks here charge.

Given that the current 150 baht fee works out to about $4.25 U.S., that means you'd have to do more than 10 ATM transactions, at the maximum amount allowed each time, before a wire would become more cost effective.

There are exceptions, such as some banks that dont charge so much or at all.. But those are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to international wires from the U.S.

And then, there is the ability to do low cost online transfers to the BKK Bank branch in New York... But that only works for U.S. folks who know about it and how to do it (I suspect most people don't), and hasnt always been dependable in the past.

The simple question remains... why pay BKK, SCB or the others 150 baht for every foreign card ATM withdrawals when you can avoid the fee entirely by using Kasikorn, Ayudhya or GSB ATMS????

If you like to blow 150 baht every time for no reason, I'd be happy to take the cash off your hands....

my math ? for the last 14 years of living here fulltime my wires cost on average $5 USD over that period.

why dont the people on tourist visas stop pretending that they deserve some holier than though residency rights , get local bank accounts and use a local ATM cad charge free ? Seems pretty god dam_n simple to me.

[jfchandler]

KK, you have some kind of obsession about people on tourist visas??? Makes me really wonder about you...

I don't have a tourist visa....and I've never had a tourist visa for staying here... So I'm assuming you don't mean me...

Great that you can do $5 international wire transfers... Congratulations... But the average expat living here most certainly is paying much more than that...on average....

And no, I don't do wire transfers here either.... But I do know typical U.S. bank fees....

[canopy]

KK, you have some kind of obsession about people on tourist visas??? Makes me really wonder about you...

Yes, KK is barking up the wrong tree. I too am not on tourist visas. While I can open a Thai bank account, I simply do not want one. Opening one is a can of worms I don't want to have to deal with. Setup, communications, change of addresses, funding, etc. Just one a big unnecessary waste of time for something I don't need. No thanks.

[barryofthailand]

Has anyone made any ATM withdrawls from Siam Commercial Bank? I am just wondering if SCB is charging the 150 Baht fee?

Barry

[jfchandler]

SCB has been charging the 150 baht ATM fee since the beginning, and 20 baht before that. Better to bank elsewhere...

[jfchandler]

Another reason why I love to keep LARGE sums of money in my Thai bank accounts....the really secure, safe banking system that exists here... In particular, note the BOLDED section below....

Banker arrested with B15m in cash on way to Cambodia

By: WASSAYOS NGAMKHAM

Published: 2/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

The Crime Suppression Division has arrested a once-outstanding employee of the Government Housing Bank (GHB) in Si Sa Ket province for allegedly embezzling about 400 million baht.

Somkiat Panyaworakhundet, 33, who had previously been recognised as an outstanding staff member of the Government Housing Bank was arrested with 15 million baht in cash yesterday. He was charged with embezzling a total of about 400 million baht from the state-run bank over the past few years.

CSD deputy chief Pol Col Supisal Phakdeenarunart said the division's officers arrested Somkiat Panyaworakhundet, 33, a teller at GHB's Saint Louis Soi 3 branch, foiling his attempts to leave the country at the same time.

Mr Somkiat was arrested yesterday morning as he was driving his brand-new BMW 5 Series along the Nakhon Ratchasima-Buri Ram Road in Si Sa Ket province, heading in the direction of the Thai-Cambodian border.

Earlier GHB president Khan Prachuabmoh asked the CSD to arrest Mr Somkiat after discovering irregular movements of money through his accounts. Suspicion started when ATM-supervising staff of GHB tracked the irregular movements.

The finding led to the conclusion that Mr Somkiat had embezzled about 400 million baht from GHB.

CSD Sub-division 1 chief Pol Col Pornsak Surasit said the suspect was aware that the police were hunting him, so he was trying to escape with the cash to the neighbouring country. Police managed to arrest him just before he reached Cambodia, the officer said.

It was reported that police seized about 15 million baht in cash from the banker.

Pol Col Pornsak said that in a subsequent search of Mr Somkiat's luxurious house in the Lat Phrao area, police found expensive audio systems, furniture and another brand-new luxury BMW sedan. The house is estimated to be worth about 40 million baht.

Police found that Mr Somkiat's bank accounts held about 400 million baht.

The GHB president said the suspect had not embezzled any money from the bank's clients, but that he had made off with the cash that belonged to the bank.

Mr Khan described GHB's first case of embezzlement as shocking.

Mr Somkiat allegedly abused his authority as a teller by transferring some 700,000-900,000 baht from GHB's interest accounts into his personal bank accounts every day for a year-and-a-half.

He allegedly made about 30 transfers per day, with each transfer amounting to 30,000 baht.

Transfers were made via ATMs to numerous accounts Mr Somkiat had opened with several banks located in the Siam Square area of Bangkok's Pathumwan district.

According to Mr Khan, Mr Somkiat made the transfers after working hours, a time when GHB had already finished its daily clearing.

"Mr Somkiat showed no signs of irregularities at all. He acted like an ordinary office worker who came to work by bus," Mr Khan said.Mr Somkiat had won an award for being an outstanding member of GHB's staff, and he had earned the trust of clients at the branch he worked at, the bank's president said.

As he was an outstanding staff member, the bank's management had not initially suspected him of the crime.

Mr Somkiat said briefly in a press conference yesterday that he did not have any gambling debts, but that he just wanted the money to buy his house, cars and other belongings.

-- Bangkok Post

[longball53098]

So one posted incident of fraud by an bank employee makes all Thai banks suspect? And I suppose the US banks never had any problems?

[bf2002]

I seemed to have got embroiled in a discussion about this new ATM charge of 150 baht per time on another forum and we agreed to take it here instead.

My view on this is that it is a pretty insignificant charge and that i truly believe most people's objections are not that the charge is 150 baht but that there is a charge at all. They just don't want to pay for the service at all because it used to be free.

As an ex banker i can see that its fair there should be a charge (after all its a service allowing you to withdraw cash in another country ) and i think we have all been lucky that up to now its been free.

My advice on the other forum was that if people refrained from getting trivial sums out almost daily but instead got out the maximum they can in one go , then this charge would surely seem insignificant each month. This seemed to provoke hysteria amounst the "carry no cash with me " brigade . I have no idea (someone enlighten me ?) why people walk around both in the UK and foreigners in Thailand with next to no money on them. I always have a wallet stuffed with cash (not arrogance BTW just a fact) and credit cards which despite having them i almost never use. I am constantly amazed how people will queue for ages at an ATM and then get out just £10. Why not get out £500 and be done with it?

One poster who was sputing venom at these charges then went on to say he goes to the ATM (in thailand) almost everyday . I mean ... words fail me .

So my simple solution is ... get as much money as you can out of the ATM in one go and then you will minimise these charges to the point where they don't matter. Alternativally go into the branch and withdraw the cash .. no charge at all usually.

The only people who really suffer (if thats the right word for a trivial 150 baht charge ) in all this is those stubborn people who HAVE to go to the ATM daily and won't change their ways . But then its like those who live their lives on credit cards and don't pay back the full balance at the end of the month. They also get charged a lot but will they change ? ...never. Almost all bank charges are avoidable (i don't pay any and i'm sure millions of others are in the same boat) , not because i don't spend any money .. far from it .. but because i know how the stystem works and avoid doing what costs. Simple really.

You have left out the fact most Western banks charge their own fee ($5USD for Americans who have a Bank of America account) which is seperate from the charge by the Thai bank.

When this is taken into account, it is almost as expensive as using travellers checks or doing a weekly wire transfer.

The whole reason many people do daily withdrawls at ATMs is because of safety....a while back, when ATMs became reliable, people shifted from brings large wads of cash or travellers checks to avoid robberies and rip-off scams.

Now, things are shifting back and I'm just waiting for more robberies....notice the middle easterners and many Indians still carry lots of cash....and they also have robbery/scam reports in the tourist news regularly.

In places like Pattaya, you can only withdraw 20k or 10k Baht....this isn't much for a tourist....it creates a bad situation between learning to be a cheap charlie or risking personal safety.

Lastly, this is Thailand. The cost of their bank labor is much cheaper, so for them to charge 150 baht is an attempt to charge Western service fees for Thai labor....it will be interesting to see how the expats adapt to this? I mean the ones that continue pulling money from their Western income sources and Western based banks.

Edited May 3, 2009 by bf2002

[jackr]

As an ex banker i can see that its fair there should be a charge (after all its a service allowing you to withdraw cash in another country ) and i think we have all been lucky that up to now its been free.

It's mainly down to the banks that the world is in such a financial mess right now!

While it doesn't affect me I think the charge is a complete piss take. They are just grabbing and don't need to make revenue this way. When you add it onto the fee the other end both charges together make it significant. There are ways around by using non-fee charging banks at either end but that ain't the point.

[TonySoprano]

like most criminals he was too greedy.

[Langsuan Man]

As we begin another week with the big three

STILL NOT CHARGING 150 THB ATM FEE

Government Savings Bank Government Savings Bank

Kasikorn BankKasikorn Bank

Bank of Ayudhya Bank of Ayudhya

[koheesti]

My view on this is that it is a pretty insignificant charge and that i truly believe most people's objections are not that the charge is 150 baht but that there is a charge at all. They just don't want to pay for the service at all because it used to be free.

In my country where the cost of living is much higher than Thailand the ATM fee is maybe $2. Here in Thailand it is double that. Even a farang can buy two Thai meals for that amount - a Thai can probably feed his family on it. So I'd say the "outrage" is part that it used to be free and part 150 baht is ridiculously high for Thailand.

My advice on the other forum was that if people refrained from getting trivial sums out almost daily but instead got out the maximum they can in one go , then this charge would surely seem insignificant each month.

That's more or less what I've done.

This seemed to provoke hysteria amounst the "carry no cash with me " brigade . I have no idea (someone enlighten me ?) why people walk around both in the UK and foreigners in Thailand with next to no money on them. I always have a wallet stuffed with cash (not arrogance BTW just a fact) and credit cards which despite having them i almost never use. I am constantly amazed how people will queue for ages at an ATM and then get out just £10. Why not get out £500 and be done with it?

Well, IMHO you're being foolish by walking around with your wallet stuffed with cash. Each time you pull it out to pay for something some curious, unwanted eyes are checking out what you have. It's only a matter of time that you "lose" your wallet or get robbed - if it hasn't happened already. I'm one of those that likes to take minimum cash with me - why not? I have plastic and ATMs are all over the place. When I pull out what passes for a wallet I'll sometimes flash what little I have just so anyone with criminal intentions nearby knows I'm not worth the trouble.

I could take out larger sums and keep it in my bungalow but that has ways of disappearing as well. A friend of mine just told me last week how one of his longtime Thai friends pilfered it when given the chance.

[koheesti]

Is it a rip-off? Yes

Is it a huge amount that will hurt me financially? No

Is it worth me changing my ATM habits slightly so I save 2,000 Baht a month? Yes

Is it worth me reading a discussion forum that tells me that a certain 3 banks are not yet implementing the charge? Yes

Am I thankful that some altruistic people take the time to share this information on ThaiVisa? Yes

[Naam]

SCB has been charging the 150 baht ATM fee since the beginning, and 20 baht before that. Better to bank elsewhere...

i fail to see the logic of this suggestion. if you bank with SCB you have an SBC-card and not a card from a foreign bank to which the 150 Baht fee applies. but then... why do i spoil a nice rant with a minor fact?

[jfchandler]

Naam, I was clear in what I said, and what I meant...

I have an SCB account and SCB ATM card.

But, in my own personal protest over the new 150 baht fee for foreign ATM cards, I'm am trying to NOT do business with the Thai banks that have adopted it, and instead do my Thai banking business with those that have NOT.

So I meant what I said about SCB... better to bank elsehwere!!!

[jfchandler]

So one posted incident of fraud by an bank employee makes all Thai banks suspect? And I suppose the US banks never had any problems?

Longball, you obtusely miss the point, even though I highlighted it in bold...

Mr Somkiat allegedly abused his authority as a teller by transferring some 700,000-900,000 baht from GHB's interest accounts into his personal bank accounts every day for a year-and-a-half.[/b]

That isn't an indicator just of one guy gone wrong, as he obviously did. That's an indicator of a banking system that doesn't effectively monitor and take safeguards against FRAUD.

Do I think the same thing could have occurred without being detected, for a year and a half, in a U.S. FDIC-regulated bank... NO!

Do I think the same thing and worse could have occurred in the U.S. stock market with brokers and traders and such... Just ask Bernie Madoff

Edited May 3, 2009 by jfchandler

[Maigo6]

I have a couple of cars, and some other stuff I am paying for on a monthly basis, as well as some business expenses, which makes up the most of it.

I'm earning more than I spend, and the business expenses are obviously recouped with profits.

So, you have a couple of cars you are paying for monthly ?

I suppose they are interest free, cos a guy like you that bitches about a pitiful 150 Baht withdrawal fee is really clued up yes ?

You say you withdraw between 20-30,000 Baht, 20 times a month, 400,000 to 600,000 per month....

Yet you still can't go to a bank window and avoid the charges, cos the banks don't open 24 hours per day to suit a night owl like you...

You claim your business generates more than this ammount, so how do you manage all that cash, stuff it under your matress, and if you have all that cash under your matress, why do you go to am ATM 20 times per month ?

Typical internet forum dreamer.......

Edited May 3, 2009 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

Lastly, this is Thailand. The cost of their bank labor is much cheaper, so for them to charge 150 baht is an attempt to charge Western service fees for Thai labor....it will be interesting to see how the expats adapt to this? I mean the ones that continue pulling money from their Western income sources and Western based banks.

I'm quite sure they will manage......

I don't expect there will ba a mass exodus of expats becuase of a 150 Baht bank charge, on the other hand if Thai hookers started charging the same as their western counterparts, then a mass exodus of expats is certainly on the cards.