I've Got Questions About Being A Tefl In Thailand!

[Sadie]

Hello!

I know there will no doubt be a lot of similar posts to mine and I have spent the last half hour or so trolling through this forum and figured would start my own topic to get some help.... so here goes!

I went to Phuket for a holiday last month and fell completely in love with the culture and place and like most people on here, wish to go back and teach english. I don't have the TESOL/TEFL certification but am looking into it.

First question.... is it better to do it in my home country (Australia) or do the course over in Phuket??

Bit about me: I have a Bachelors degree in Business, did very well at university and was awarded some academic prizes/certificates (trust me I'm not bragging pretty much everyone I know has no idea about that fact). I have worked in human resource management for the last 4 years. I have a Training and Assessment qualification (Australian). As part of my job I design and develop training programs on human resource matters and deliver them to all staff (from entry level to the CEO). This is the only teaching experience I have.

Second question.... will that be counted as experience in teaching??

Any help or advice anyone can provide will be GREATLY appreciated! I'm confusing myself in my research and feel like I'm going around and around in circles!!

Thanks!

Sadie

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

No experience required. You have a bachelor's degree. If you're white, not hideous, and have no severe speaking impairments, you can easily get a TEFL job, and probably in Phuket. You can also try to land a teaching job at a university that offers business degrees. A TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand will help you get acclimated to teaching in Thailand, but it is not necessary. I would only get the teaching certification in your home country, if you intend to teach elsewhere. Your prior experience may be helpful to you, but it will not really be considered by employers here, because it is not experience in teaching Thais.

Edit: forgot to mention, if you are female, you will be in high demand as a teacher

Edited May 3, 2009 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[AjarnChan]

No experience required. You have a bachelor's degree. If you're white, not hideous, and have no severe speaking impairments, you can easily get a TEFL job, and probably in Phuket. You can also try to land a teaching job at a university that offers business degrees.

Agreed, BUT 'in the near future' you will need not just any old Degree but a formal Educational degree; just as all native Thai teachers do already. They argue that you should be a professional teacher if you want to Teach.

A TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand will help you get acclimated to teaching in Thailand, but it is not necessary.

Nonsense, a TEFL Certificate is necessary. You must also take a short course in Thai language and culture, to give you at least some understanding of the country beyond your Tourist perspective. You can do that alongside your TEFL course if you take it over here. It will give you some basic Thai and an insight in how Thais live and think.

I would only get the teaching certification in your home country, if you intend to teach elsewhere. Your prior experience may be helpful to you, but it will not really be considered by employers here, because it is not experience in teaching Thais.

Edit: forgot to mention, if you are female, you will be in high demand as a teacher

Agreed. I know of a Job starting in 2 weeks where they are crying out for a female to teach in a Kindergarten. I did it last Term/Semester and it was very enjoyable and rewarding; but as a 'bloke' I was treated as a reluctant compromise.

Sadie, one final observation not meant to insult you, your Great Nation, or cause any offence. Since you are Australian PLEASE try not to speak with a 'shrill over the top Aussie accent' because if you do far fewer people will readily understand you; I do not just mean the Thais either. I am a Brit and I love Aussies, but some are a nightmare to understand.

I suggest you also visit http://www.Ajarn.com and read other viewpoints. It is also a good place to find work. There really are a lot of TEFL Jobs available most of the time, but be aware that the current Economic climate and other factors are all having an effect. I live in Phuket and I expect I will be teaching here for the foreseeable future, but many schools that would previously have employed me are now closing their doors to Farangs/foreigners. Economics is one major reason for that shift in attitude, but also many influential Thais are simply very disappointed by, and no longer tolerant of, the often poor quality of some of the TEFLers who want to live and work here.

Good Luck and Welcome to Thailand

[Phatcharanan]

Agreed, BUT 'in the near future' you will need not just any old Degree but a formal Educational degree; just as all native Thai teachers do already. They argue that you should be a professional teacher if you want to Teach.

A TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand will help you get acclimated to teaching in Thailand, but it is not necessary.

Nonsense, a TEFL Certificate is necessary.

Really?? That must just be a Phuket thing then because it is NOT a requirement on the mainland. Legal or otherwise. 

Sadie, one final observation not meant to insult you, your Great Nation, or cause any offence. Since you are Australian PLEASE try not to speak with a 'shrill over the top Aussie accent' because if you do far fewer people will readily understand you; I do not just mean the Thais either. I am a Brit and I love Aussies, but some are a nightmare to understand.

edit: flame removed -mario2008

 I live in Phuket and I expect I will be teaching here for the foreseeable future, but many schools that would previously have employed me are now closing their doors to Farangs/foreigners. Economics is one major reason for that shift in attitude, but also many influential Thais are simply very disappointed by, and no longer tolerant of, the often poor quality of some of the TEFLers who want to live and work here.

Poor quality "Teflers"? Hard to believe.  

Sigh...........

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

No experience required. You have a bachelor's degree. If you're white, not hideous, and have no severe speaking impairments, you can easily get a TEFL job, and probably in Phuket. You can also try to land a teaching job at a university that offers business degrees.

Agreed, BUT 'in the near future' you will need not just any old Degree but TEFL'ersa formal Educational degree; just as all native Thai teachers do already. They argue that you should be a professional teacher if you want to Teach.

This prognostication has been thoroughly debunked as being not realistic. Now that Abhisit's government has survived it's first 100 days, expect the MOE to implement realistic training requirements for TEFL'ers, which should be free and relatively convenient.

A TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand will help you get acclimated to teaching in Thailand, but it is not necessary.

Nonsense, a TEFL Certificate is necessary. You must also take a short course in Thai language and culture, to give you at least some understanding of the country beyond your Tourist perspective. You can do that alongside your TEFL course if you take it over here. It will give you some basic Thai and an insight in how Thais live and think.

Neither the MOE, Immigration nor Labor require any type of TEFL degree. Many language centers favor them. Few government schools require them. I am responsible for hiring at the largest government school in Rayong. While almost all of our native speaking teachers have a TEFL (16 teachers), we specifically state in our job ads that a TEFL certificate is not required, only a bachelor's degree from a verifiable 4-year university.

Furthermore, there is absolutely no requirement that you must take the Thai culture course. While the culture course may be required to get a Teaching License from the TCT, only a handful of provinces and schools require a teacher's license. Again, expect the MOE to clarify this in the near future.

[AjarnChan]

Agreed, BUT 'in the near future' you will need not just any old Degree but a formal Educational degree; just as all native Thai teachers do already. They argue that you should be a professional teacher if you want to Teach.

A TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand will help you get acclimated to teaching in Thailand, but it is not necessary.

Nonsense, a TEFL Certificate is necessary.

Really?? That must just be a Phuket thing then because it is NOT a requirement on the mainland. Legal or otherwise. 

Sadie, one final observation not meant to insult you, your Great Nation, or cause any offence. Since you are Australian PLEASE try not to speak with a 'shrill over the top Aussie accent' because if you do far fewer people will readily understand you; I do not just mean the Thais either. I am a Brit and I love Aussies, but some are a nightmare to understand.

edit: flame removed - mario2008

 I live in Phuket and I expect I will be teaching here for the foreseeable future, but many schools that would previously have employed me are now closing their doors to Farangs/foreigners. Economics is one major reason for that shift in attitude, but also many influential Thais are simply very disappointed by, and no longer tolerant of, the often poor quality of some of the TEFLers who want to live and work here.

Poor quality "Teflers"? Hard to believe.  

Sigh...........

Ouch Phatcharanan, what side of the bed did you get out of ?

Assuming you are correct can you PLEASE point me to an authoritative source. I merely reported what I have been led to believe by the local authorities here. My intentions were genuine and my comments solely meant to to be constructive.

Have a nice day

Edited May 3, 2009 by Mario2008

[AjarnChan]

Hello! I know there will no doubt be a lot of similar posts to mine and I have spent the last half hour or so trolling through this forum and figured would start my own topic to get some help.... so here goes!

.....

Any help or advice anyone can provide will be GREATLY appreciated! I'm confusing myself in my research and feel like I'm going around and around in circles!! Thanks! Sadie

Hi again Sadie

In case you do not already know, you will need to show a Transcript of your Degree course so make sure you bring that along with you. Also another really good source of useful TEFL information is http://www.tefl.net/

Hope this helps.

[Sadie]

Thanks a lot for your replies! Will check out the information you are saying.

I was curious about the cultural course as I've heard mixed things about if you actually do need it or not. But if it's not a requirement I won't bother about that, I guess can always do it if required.

AjarnChan.... i do agree with you that some of the accents are bogan at times. I was originally from England so still manage to pronounce all my words... but for the most part Australian accents have improved over the years.

So being female is an advantage?

Is there a better time of year to go out and try and get a job? Or is it pretty consistent with employment all year round??

Thanks again for all the advice... will also make sure I dig out my transcript of my degree

[AjarnChan]

Thanks a lot for your replies! Will check out the information you are saying.

I was curious about the cultural course as I've heard mixed things about if you actually do need it or not. But if it's not a requirement I won't bother about that, I guess can always do it if required.

AjarnChan.... i do agree with you that some of the accents are bogan at times. I was originally from England so still manage to pronounce all my words... but for the most part Australian accents have improved over the years.

So being female is an advantage?

Is there a better time of year to go out and try and get a job? Or is it pretty consistent with employment all year round??

Thanks again for all the advice... will also make sure I dig out my transcript of my degree

Actually the school year is about to start in mid May, just about 2 weeks from now. I believe most vacancies will be filled and it may be awkward finding work after that; except that some people will quit early because they find they do not like the work. The first term/semester is roughly mid May to September, then a break before the second term roughly mid October to early March. The exact dates vary depending on location and the schools age group.

If you are really serious I would start applying on-line right now and get over here. Of course I am only aware of school timetables, not totally sure about the universities but I think they are similar. There is always some Corporate work, but the Economic recession together with the upheaval in Thai society caused by the Yellow/Red shirt confrontations, Airport seizures, ASEAN cancellation etc has all hurt job prospects.

YES as a young lady you will find things fall into place more easily than they do for most 'Old Geezers' like me

Incidentally, Ajarn just means Teacher in Thai, another term is Kruu used by younger children. Likewise Chan is the Thai version of Charles, just as those from the USA tend to call me Chuck for some obscure reason. Cultural diversity is a wonderful thing. BTW is 'bogan' a bit like 'chav' in the UK ?

Good job hunting Ajarn Sadie, and I hope you continue to enjoy Phuket

[Phatcharanan]

Ouch Phatcharanan, what side of the bed did you get out of ?

The right side. Incorrect advise about the legal requirements over here do need to be addressed though.

Assuming you are correct can you PLEASE point me to an authoritative source.

I can't. For the simple reason there is NO section on the relevent rules regarding TEFL certificates. At all. Hence why it is not a legal requirement which is necessary for either the Teachers License (if teaching at establishments other than Universities), nor is at a MoE requirement or a "must have" for extension of stay at Immigration. 

However, some "local" agencies have their own interpretation of the rules. Hence why I said that a TEFL requirement must be applicable only to Phuket, according too yourself.

I merely reported what I have been led to believe by the local authorities here. My intentions were genuine and my comments solely meant to to be constructive.

This is also known as the "My mate Dave told me" syndrome. However, it may well be that the local boys in Phuket have their own rules. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it though. In order to obtain a WP you MUST have a TEFL type certificate? You think all the qualified teachers at BIS in Phuket have TEFL certificates? Yet they go through the same WP process in the offices. 

"Internationals" are not exempt from the requirements of Thai law. 

Have a nice day

Everyday I wake up..............it's a nice day. Thanks.  

[TVmonitor]

As you can tell - tere is a lot of debate about what quals you need to teach - the general rule accepted by most employers is that you need a TEFL cert and a degree - 3 yr will do. THe thing is some local govt schools especially those in out of the way areas get pretty desperate for staff - especially now as it is the beginning of the thai educational year. the result is that local MOE oficials may apply egulations in such a way that it enables the school to employ people who apparently arent properly qualified.

It is also woth looking a the salary you'll be offered - it really is rather small if you are a foriegner.

Do you want to teach at a normal school or teach business at a private language school? The latter usually offer a better hourly rate but less security - most of their work is in the evenings teaching adultas either "in house" or on site at businesses and factiries in the area.

Here's thhe rub - there's a world recession on - this is impacting very strongly on teaching in Thailand - many businesses have already "suspended" any EL training for their staff and a lot of teachers have found that their work has dried up - they in turn are running to the nearest "secure" job they can find, which means that competition for work is getting greater and it will increase dramatically as the recession bites into the spending of companies around Thailand.

Yourvisa is a catch @@ situation. - You will need a non-immigrant "B" visa to get a work pemit - this HAS to be got outside Thailand - you can get them in places like Sigapore - or you could get one in Oz. Usually you need to apply with all th documentation rom the company you are goig to work for so you need to be in Thailand to get that! - but if you can get one before going to Thailand you might save a return trip. You won't qualify for one by saying youare going to look for a teaching job - you'll have to be more creative than that - where do you live in OZ??

[PeaceBlondie]

HI, Sadie,

Welcome. Pinned near the top here is an excessively long thread about qualifications.

[Loaded]

Incidentally, Ajarn just means Teacher in Thai, another term is Kruu used by younger children.

Incidentally, you are wrong again.

Kruu is general teacher

Ajarn is expert or specialist teacher

language teachers are usually called ajarn but an expert in shoe repairing could also be an ajarn

[Loaded]

In case you do not already know, you will need to show a Transcript of your Degree course so make sure you bring that along with you.

That depends on the school. Schools are responsible for checking the authenticity of the degree and MOE and MOL will be happy with a photocopy. Many Brits who graduated before the 90s were not issued transcripts anyway and I have never heard of one having a problem because they do not have.

[Phatcharanan]

In case you do not already know, you will need to show a Transcript of your Degree course so make sure you bring that along with you.

That depends on the school. Schools are responsible for checking the authenticity of the degree and MOE and MOL will be happy with a photocopy. Many Brits who graduated before the 90s were not issued transcripts anyway and I have never heard of one having a problem because they do not have.

Very true. I graduated in 1991 and have never had transcripts. It's never been a problem either. 

I think Mr. AjarnChan should look for someone else to give him advice.  

[Phatcharanan]

Incidentally, Ajarn just means Teacher in Thai, another term is Kruu used by younger children.

Incidentally, you are wrong again.

Kruu is general teacher

Ajarn is expert or specialist teacher

language teachers are usually called ajarn but an expert in shoe repairing could also be an ajarn

Again correct.       Sigh.....................Mr. AjarnChan..........................get with the program buddy !!

[Sadie]

Thanks again for all the advice.

I hear mixed things about how the recession is hitting Thailand, as others have told me that TEFL is going strong, but it's good to be updated by people more in the know!

Tvmonitor, I live on the Gold Coast. I wouldn't mind teaching either in a business school (given the fact I've got a business degree and experience in the corporate world) but also think I would enjoy teaching in a school.

Speaking of salary for positions.... what is the average you could expect to get? Again in my research I've seen all different that I'm not sure what to use as the 'guiding rule' of salary. Any help with this would be great!

Oh and AjarnChan bogan is more like redneck, london thug wannabe hard try hards.... i'm sure you get the drift

Again thanks for all your help guys really appreciate it!

[TVmonitor]

If you start with a govt school expect about 30k baht - with business teaching and private language schools 300 to 400 per hour starting and 500 to 800 per hours on outside locations.

The business is VERY slow at present, but there are plenty of people advertising on ajarn.com - check the site out if you haven't already.

a closer examination of the jobs on offer will reveal that many of the "corporate" jobs will be for 30/60 hour courses paid by the hour. these are taken up by teachers already living here and by putting together a "portfolio" of language schools they provide themselves with a reasonable salary - up to 60 or 70 k per month.

The work permit and visa situation regarding this is a very grey area and I would recommend that you need to stay in Thailand under your own finances for quite a while to set up this sort of work. Even if you work for only one language school and they priovide you with a work permit - it is in fact building and company specific - so outside work is technically not allowed - having said that virtually EVERYBODY who teaches corporate English is guilty of this transgression.

If you go for a govt school or similar - you will get all your docos sorted by them and once settled you should find some evening work to suppliment your income.

At a school you get good holidays too - with pay.

Many language schools don't pay any benefits - medica,l holiday pay etc.

[AjarnChan]

Incidentally, Ajarn just means Teacher in Thai, another term is Kruu used by younger children.

Incidentally, you are wrong again.

Kruu is general teacher

Ajarn is expert or specialist teacher

language teachers are usually called ajarn but an expert in shoe repairing could also be an ajarn

Again correct.       Sigh.....................Mr. AjarnChan..........................get with the program buddy !!

Thanks for the input Phatcharanan et al

Actually it was my Thai work colleagues who christened me AjarnChan. When I asked them what it meant they said 'Ajarn just means Teacher in Thai, another term is Kruu used by younger children.'

From personal observation I hear the younger children I work with call all their Thai teachers Kruu, and the older ones often use Ajarn. However for some reason they all call me 'Ajarn Chan' which I am told is used as a polite form, and a mark of respect; regardless of whether or not I deserve it. Whatever the 'truth' as always I was simply passing on what I have been told by Thais; all of them educated Graduates with lifetimes in Education. The same goes for the TEFL Certification issue, and they all claim an absolute need for the 'Thai Language & Customs' course.

Given that the people who largely control my life are Thais at present, and that I am a guest in their country then I think I will stick to using their interpretation of their language. But thanks all the same

Incidentally I am NOT saying you are wrong; only that 'custom and useage' seems different from your opinion, at least down here in 'primitive' Phuket. I make no claims to any knowledge or experience much beyond 'Phuket Fantasy Island'

I accept that these Thais may simply be 'ignorant locals', whereas an American Scholar such as yourself probably knows better. I am assuming you are an American because of the way you 'misspell' Programme; that is misspelt from my viewpoint. In English the word has double M. But I believe there always has to be room for different views, and we all deserve equal treatment. Have another nice day

Ah Ha - now it has hit me ! Since you probably feel quite entitled to tell an Englishman how to speak and spell English, which your countrymen seem to think you now 'own'; then it logically follows that you also have no problem telling Thais what Thai really means, since they do not seem to know. Hee Hee Hee ~ Just Teasing

Final thought. Maybe I should be writing to the proprietors of Ajarn.com, AjarnJobSpace.com and numerous others to ask why there are not more features on shoe repairing, and suggest to them they change their site names.

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's quit the silly semantic bickering, and try to help Sadie.

[Sadie]

Thanks tvmonitor that was a very informative response! Good to find out what the situation is like and what actually happens. Also good to know about the visas as I didn't know it was even building specific.

I've started a course at night after work to see in more detail what it's all about. I am really enjoying the course so that's a good sign.

Thanks for letting me know what the situation workwise is like as I'm def getting different messages from over here in Australia... we are being told there is still plenty of work everywhere in the Asian countries and that the recession hasn't hit those areas... which I do find a bit of an unrealistic statement.

Thanks again!

[TVmonitor]

As for the cultural qualification - there is a waiver facility on that for so many years - or was it months?

[PeaceBlondie]

POST DELETED.

From sub-forum rules: ".... It is at present not illegal to teach without a degree or TEFL certificate as long as one has a work permit to do so and has not misrepresented his/her educational background. Individual schools may or may not accept TEFL teachers without degrees. It is erroneous and not permitted on the forum to claim that teaching without a degree is illegal."