3 Thais Killed, 1 Swedish Woman Injured In Shootings Near Khao San Rd

[lomatopo]

I think those oft-quoted NationMaster statistics are questionable with regards to Thailand, as has been highlighted and debated here often. Not sure how you can have 20,032 (nearly 55 per day) firearm murders and (only) 5,140 (14 per day) total murders? Even with the ‘5,140’ figure, and with so many foreigners here I’ve go to think we’d hear more first-hand “murder” experiences, hence I think even this total figure might be suspect?

It seems like this triple homicide was a crime of passion rather than economically driven?

[daeng1212]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Notice, 7 of the top 13 countries are (I think) countries that were formed by the breakup of the Soviet Union, so if that breakup is disregarded, Thailand ranks 8th in the world in murders per capita. Thailand is also ranked 5th highest in the world in alcohol consumption per capita. Link -

http://sanpaworn.vissaventure.com/log/103/worlds-no-5

Another interesting statistic: Thailand has, by far, the highest percentage of female prisoners in the world, that is, the percent of prisoners in the country who are female. Here's the link:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_...risoners-female

Maybe this says something about the Thai tendency to not show/suppress anger (& all negative emotions), which can lead to explosions of rage when something triggers all the buried anger.

[TAWP]

gookspeak = calling a crime an 'optional convenience'

I think he was more pointing out that that word is a derogatory term and really has no place here and only place your whole posts in the bin...

[Richard4849]

gookspeak = calling a crime an 'optional convenience'

So, are you saying you're not a criminal by your own definition? If I came to your house, I wouldn't find any pirated music or videos in your collection? I would never see you paying to clear a traffic fine on the spot rather than come back to collect your license at the precinct? I would never hear you saying anything negative about the Royal Family, even in private?

Again...with a moralistic, black-and-white attitude like yours, you are doomed to be miserable in Thailand. It comes out in the tone of your posts.

[Tyke]

gookspeak = calling a crime an 'optional convenience'

So, are you saying you're not a criminal by your own definition? If I came to your house, I wouldn't find any pirated music or videos in your collection? I would never see you paying to clear a traffic fine on the spot rather than come back to collect your license at the precinct? I would never hear you saying anything negative about the Royal Family, even in private?

Again...with a moralistic, black-and-white attitude like yours, you are doomed to be miserable in Thailand. It comes out in the tone of your posts.

Where have I moralised? Where have I criticised you for being a closet criminal? All I've done is to uncover gookspeak.

[chrislarsson]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Murder rate in Thailand is about 8 per 100,000. In the US it's 6.

I would say that you are at a greater risk to be a victim of unprovoked violence in he West. While in Thailand you are at greater risk if you are the one making enemies.

[Richard4849]

I don't know...all I said was that I'd never been the victim of any violent crime in Thailand, and all of a sudden some guy is using racial slurs and calling me a criminal.

Welcome to the forum, I guess. Every forum has it's local wackos, and I guess I haven't taken long to find my first here.

Have a great day.

[winsorooi]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I am sure you do not know how dangerous in some cities of America. Perhaps you will change your mind that Bkk in one of the safest place to live in comparing to America. Gun related crimes are in every FEW MINUTES in America. CNN cannot report aearll of them to the whole world. Unless someone was killed.

I am Canadian, when I walk around in Bangkok at night, i feel no fear. Well, not America for sure. Welcome to Thailand. Be nice to this wonderful country. Are you Thai? Tell the truth to others. Please don't tell me you are American. Please do not use gun to shot me if you are. I think I am telling the fact. Am I?

[JR Texas]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

I agree. There are 10,000 plus gun related deaths in America each year. How many are in Thailand? I'm from Los Angeles and lived in Santa Monica for over 10 years and every night there was someone being killed in Los Angeles. Trust me, Thailand is nothing compared to Los Angeles.

I think you need to a lesson in statistics.

Ask yourself these questions:

1) what is the population of Thailand? (about 63 million last time I looked)

2) what is the population of the United States? (about 310 million last time I looked)

3) given the much larger population of the United States, would you expect more or less crime in Thailand or the United States?

No need to answer......the answer is that you would expect far more crime in the USA simply because the population is far greater.

What you are looking for is a crime rate adjusted for BOTH population size and numbers of tourists.

The last part is essential, there are far more tourists visiting the USA than Thailand.......same for France and Spain. Numbers that are not adjusted for annual tourists numbers and total population tell you little.

[Tonyzill]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

what a rubbish !!!

while crime of course DOES happen in a big city such as Bangkok, it is still much safer than almost anywhere else.

I dare to say, MUCH safer than, f.e., Phuket or Pattaya, considering the number of inhabitants living at those places.

None of the people that I know in BKK (and I know quite some since moving here 6 years ago) have ever been victim of a street crime nor have seen/witnessed such thing. if a crime happens, it will be usually burglary (yeah THAT indeed happens a lot, but thats a problem anywhere in South-East-Asia).

I live 22 years in BKK and confirm what you say. The 1 year I lived in Pattaya I saw more mugging, murder, daylight robbing, "suicides" with hands tied to the back, falling from buildings... than in 22 years Bangkok

I have lived in Pattaya for 20+ years and I get around the town and the only violence I have witnessed was during Songkran between Thais.

I lived and worked in Bangkok for a year and witnessed several muggings and fights.

If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time C'est la vie!!!!!

I never get involved in Thai business as my Thai wife calls it. When I go out her only advice is not to interfere in Thai business not dont get drunk or go short time!!!

[Tyke]

I don't know...all I said was that I'd never been the victim of any violent crime in Thailand, and all of a sudden some guy is using racial slurs and calling me a criminal.

Welcome to the forum, I guess. Every forum has it's local wackos, and I guess I haven't taken long to find my first here.

Have a great day.

Racial slurs? You men gookspeak? It's short for Gobbledegookspeak. Why so paranoid? Cheer up!

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tyke

[Geekfreaklover]

This happened opposite Burger King, at one of the T-Shirt sellers, just before the corner of Khao San Rd...

I popped out to seven around nine last night and saw alot of police and a crowd gathered.... rumour last night was Thai Husband had shot his wife and kid and tourist was hit in crossfire....

Vary sad.

what were you doing in "the ghetto"? i always wonder why anyone with common sense would go have a stroll in khao san !

this street ( now a whole block or two) is a plague and should be razed off the face of Bangkok .....

What a silly comment.

When living in London I used to enjoy going to Brick Lane and China town the same way that Thais enjoy going to Koh San. It's a little slice of the West in the East. and vice versa.

To think that if there was no Koh San Road there would be no problem is not really addrssing the issue. The issue is That Thailand is suffering from major loss of face globally and she keeps making it worse with these types of incidents. The last six months is a catalogue of diasters.

[Scott]

Thailand's safer than...

Thailand's more dangerous than...

This happens everywhere....

Statistics show...

I don't believe the statistics.

You might want to look around and listed. This girl was shot--maybe just collaterral damage, but shot none the less.

Yes, it's dangerous. Nice, but far from safe.

[coconutmonkey]

Agree with Lomatopo,

Statistics just aren't working for our reasonings, especially when the crime wasn't economically driven at all.... (then again, maybe they were arguing about home finances?).....

Sure, some Thai's (and even falangs) have some trouble expressing and confronting emotions, however as for safety, I'd rather be in Thailand than elsewhere. Just keep your head low, do your thing, don't look for trouble......

Most of the INTENTIONAL crime problems that occur here, or anywhere, do at night.

[brahmburgers]

Khao San Road is not unlike the other tourist areas - it attracts the scum of the country.

what were you doing in "the ghetto"? i always wonder why anyone with common sense would go have a stroll in khao san ! this street ( now a whole block or two) is a plague and should be razed off the face of Bangkok .....

Boy, this news item really brought out the Kao San Road bashers. Kao San Road isn't to blame, it's the location where the murders happened. Every time there's a murder, do the same people jump up and down yelling aspersions at the locale?

I haven't been to KS Road for years, but unless it's changed drastically, it's an ok place. It's a space for young farang to let their hair down, wear loose clothes, joke with the locals and each other, and generally have a casual fun time. Were the Kao San Bashers ever 21 years old? Have they stopped to converse with any of the backpackers there? I have. There's a steady stream of Kao San types who come visit me in northernmost Thailand, and every one of the several dozen I've met this year are great. I mean it. They're all polite, bright eyed, jovial, inquisitive, humble, spiritual. Do you find that sort of humanity in the gray alleys of Sukumwit or Silom or the big pinball machine known as Walking Street? I doubt it.

[tomartoh]

Apparently large numbers of Scandinavians come to Thaialand. So if the Scandinavian countries are so lacking in corruption and murder rate and crime rate so low and they are such safe places to live..! Then their perceived image of Thailand must be that it will be safe for them to come here. They will continue to come here until the balance changes enough to make appear Thailand unsafe, unless they come here for excitement!

[chrislarsson]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Notice, 7 of the top 13 countries are (I think) countries that were formed by the breakup of the Soviet Union, so if that breakup is disregarded, Thailand ranks 8th in the world in murders per capita. Thailand is also ranked 5th highest in the world in alcohol consumption per capita. Link -

http://sanpaworn.vissaventure.com/log/103/worlds-no-5

It's quite interesting that Indonesia have one of the lowest rates in the world. Almost 50 times less than America.

[Scott]

Scandinavians aren't doing so well today. One shot and 2 poisoned, with 1 dead.

[Tyke]

The problem with statistics in relation to developing countries is that they are grossly under-reported. Bribery and patent rights violations, for example, are often not seen as a crime, or not seen as leading to more serious crime, and so are greatly underestimated.

Likewise, many countries' methods of calculating crime statistics differ and can be subject to political interference for economic reasons. I would say Thailand's official crime figures are well underestimated because they depend on national reporting.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tyke

[Geekfreaklover]

when I used to live on Ko Samui I knew three young people that had died within the space of a few months - One was a suspect suicide, the other knocked off her motorbike and then reversed over by a taxi driver and the third raped and then killed in the road.

Thailand is a dangerous place to live.

I would imagine that the stats only show half the story. Pick up the Thai Rath and take a look at the pictures.

[Priceless]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

Statistics show that Thailand is 14th in the world for murders per capita - double that of the USA and on a par with Kyrgyzstan. The death toll on the roads is one of the highest in the world, as are the pollution levels in the major cities. And you feel safe with all this building work, potholes, things falling off roofs? So if BKK is one of the safest cities in the world then it is one of selective perception, rather than reality. See:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Statistics is a wonderful subject You could have chosen to point out that the murder rate per capita of Thailand is less than 1/6 of South Africa's, but that would have made a rather different point, wouldn't it? The list that you quote covers less than 1/3 of the world's countries but still includes three EU countries (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) and at least two major tourist destinations (South Africa and Mexico) with a higher murder rate than Thailand.

I can't help but wonder whether the Thai murder rate includes victims of the Southern insurgency? In that case the numbers would be rather skewed, I think.

/ Priceless

[winsorooi]

Three Thais apparently died in this incident, but the majority of the concern seems to be for the Swedish bystander who was only injured. Seems a bit out of whack to me.

agreed...

No, it's not out of whack if you look at it from a Thai perspective. Thais = worthless (except for immediate family) Foreigner = Saving international face/tourist dollars.

I often work with a certain group of Thais who use guns in their job. The mentality surrounding guns is F****n scary.

Many Thais do not have the maturity and capacity to discuss objectively and openly their problems and come up with a fair and equitable solution.

Many Thais see guns as the way to solve disputes and regain "thier face" .

I disagree with you. Many Thais? How many? 90% 50%. If you are Thai, "u said Local Thais = worthless" Then you are worthless too. Shame. If you are other nationality, here, please do not come here. Surrounding with people so called worthless aren't worth it and making you cheap too. If you live here as a foreigner, ummm it would be nice to pack and go home. I AM CANADIAN, live in Bkk. Do you dare to tell everyone here your nationality? We are in dispute here, you are trying to save your face now. Please do not use gun, I am Canadian. When come to this kind of dispute, I will worry if you are American than Thai because Americans carry gun everywhere. Legally. Scary !!!!

[Brewsta]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

Agreed.

Nottingham, Manchester, Liverpool....... "rampant gun crime" reported by the press in all of the above, to name but a few.... and that is just in England.

36 gun crimes in Chicago in one recent weekend - it is everywhere and LOS is sadly just another example.

I have lived in North Thailand for 10 years and have luckily seen no 'events' such as the one in this thread, but I have no doubt they happen.

No easy answers.

regards.

[Richard4849]

I disagree with you. Many Thais? How many? 90% 50%. If you are Thai, "u said Local Thais = worthless" Then you are worthless too. Shame. If you are other nationality, here, please do not come here. Surrounding with people so called worthless aren't worth it and making you cheap too. If you live here as a foreigner, ummm it would be nice to pack and go home. I AM CANADIAN, live in Bkk. Do you dare to tell everyone here your nationality? We are in dispute here, you are trying to save your face now. Please do not use gun, I am Canadian. When come to this kind of dispute, I will worry if you are American than Thai because Americans carry gun everywhere. Legally. Scary !!!!

The rubbish you post about Americans is no less offensive than the rubbish the other guy posted about Thais. I'm an American, and have never touched a gun in my life. No one in my family has ever owned a gun. Can we at least make an attempt to leave ugly stereotypes out of this?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Richard4849

[chrislarsson]

Thailand's safer than...

Thailand's more dangerous than...

This happens everywhere....

Statistics show...

I don't believe the statistics.

You might want to look around and listed. This girl was shot--maybe just collaterral damage, but shot none the less.

Yes, it's dangerous. Nice, but far from safe.

If foreigners should be scared of coming to Thailand, it's because of the traffic situation. It kills scores more than anything else.

[BlueSmurf]

Anything better for this story in English? It will probably come sooner or later.

Another blow to tourism..........what was that song they were playing when the Titanic went down?

Such tragic events happen not only in Thailand and I can not see why it is a blow for tourism.

Crime takes place everywhere in the world.

Point taken and you are right! But most people when in their own country understand the local social problems and the places not to go or to go....The unfortunate thing here is that this will be on the news world wide and Thailands name mentioned in the wrong light again so yes it will effect some peoples views of this country and whether to holiday here or not...Its about time there was a gun amnisty here with maybe a handover reward for illegal guns....maybe it would help save a few innocent lives..

[hansnl]

Anything better for this story in English? It will probably come sooner or later.

Another blow to tourism..........what was that song they were playing when the Titanic went down?

Such tragic events happen not only in Thailand and I can not see why it is a blow for tourism.

Crime takes place everywhere in the world.

Our lord gave you brains.

Now be so kind to use the ability to think.

All violence makes tourists think again.

Seen the dialogues, comments, messages, news & all about Thailand, also in this here website, maybe one might start to think that the country of smiles is getting a wee bit less smiling?

So sorry.

[Brewsta]

Sometimes intervention is justified. What if it was you getting mugged or beaten on to the point that you would probably die and I was standing there? Would you be ok with me running away? it's all about using common sense.

In this particular case the poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but she did what she thought was right when she most likely saw the woman getting attacked. Doing the right thing sometimes costs. If the swedish girl was trying to do the right thing, then she was certainly a better "man" than alot of folks that would run away.

You never cease to amaze me with your comments geriatrickid. OK so this poor Swedish girl in the prime of her life got involved in a domestic and ended up with a raw deal.

I would suggest that many people from Europe visiting Thailand for the first, second or even third time are not so aware of the terrible gun culture this country has and this girl sadly and rather naively got in the middle of the fracass.

I'm sure that if the commotion had been that serious fellow Thais would have got involved, or would they? They know to stay away, but unfortunately when you read a do's and dont's section of Thai culture in a travel guide all it tells you is not to show the soles of your feet or touch anyone on the head, not don't get involved in Thai on Thai arguements. In the west this sad story would be pretty unheard of at least on the streets, but as someone said earlier Thai have no idea of consequences when that red mist starts to cover their eyes and the blood starts to pump.

At least one good thing may come from this and that now people will start to walk away when they see trouble and just let the Thais sort it out themselves, as they generally do without involving unfortunate farangs wearing rose tinted glasses who still think this is the land of smiles.

This place is becoming more dangerous all the time, one only has to look at the armed robbery in Pattaya yesterday and see on TV three guys coming into a jewelry store with M16's blazing and no regard for public safety. Where do you buy an M16 in Pattaya, 7-11?

It will get worse too as so many people are being laid off from work, they need money to survive and if that means shooting up a store or a farang for his wallet and gold they have no fear of the consequences. Travellers be warned and be vigilant.

And...Turkey today......

Eight held after attack on Turkey wedding party

7 mins ago - 08:00 GMT Tues 5th May 2009

Mahmut Bozarslan

• Print Story
  

Eight armed suspects have been arrested over the killing of 44 people, including six children and 16 women, at a wedding in southeastern Turkey, Interior Minister Besir Atalay said Tuesday.

I guess we take Turkey off the holiday list, eh?

regards.

[hansnl]

Anything better for this story in English? It will probably come sooner or later.

Another blow to tourism..........what was that song they were playing when the Titanic went down?

Such tragic events happen not only in Thailand and I can not see why it is a blow for tourism.

Crime takes place everywhere in the world.

Point taken and you are right! But most people when in their own country understand the local social problems and the places not to go or to go....The unfortunate thing here is that this will be on the news world wide and Thailands name mentioned in the wrong light again so yes it will effect some peoples views of this country and whether to holiday here or not...Its about time there was a gun amnisty here with maybe a handover reward for illegal guns....maybe it would help save a few innocent lives..

GUNS DON'T KILL.....PEOPLE DO

[Texpat]

Wonder what kind of gun he was using.