Thoughts On Recruitment Companies

[Khutan]

I have been through a few watersheds in my life over the last few months.

And I have made the decision to go back to IT as a full time vocation, sadly 3 months after I sold my web business.

I am not going to bore people with my problems, rather, I am interested in other peoples thoughts.

In my opinion, there really aren't any recruitment companies who are happy to deal with falang. Sure they will politely take your resume and even buy you a soothing coffee, but that is it.

If you finally get the big interview, you get the "oh we are over our work-permit quota" or this is really open to Thai National only. Or the other good one - "I see you are 41, umm we wanted sumunn no older than 40".

So even though happy to be a "local hire" (take a huge pay cut) and organize my own work permit, it seems impossible to actually get a regular office job.

In my frustration, I told my wife I was leaving Thailand forever, and getting work elsewhere. After the shock etc, I got on the phone to "falang-land" and with no network or old boys stuff got a good offer within 2 hours.

So even though I was happy to be paid 50k a month in Thailand, my sjills obviously don't suit all that well, but I can go to another country and get more than 7 times that amount with a car and proper health thrown in.

Ok, I am only a senior Project Manager with about 10 years of management exp, but why are so many local companies loathe to employ well qualified falang, who can prove they are here for the long-haul.

Any thoughts are appreciated, and also if anyone can tell me a recruiter that deals with falang.

Matt

[singa-traz]

Ok, I am only a senior Project Manager with about 10 years of management exp, but why are so many local companies loathe to employ well qualified falang, who can prove they are here for the long-haul.

Any thoughts are appreciated, and also if anyone can tell me a recruiter that deals with falang.

Matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't need a recruiter but connections.

BTW, Good IT project Manager are still hard to find.

[chingy_]

So even though I was happy to be paid 50k a month in Thailand, my sjills obviously don't suit all that well, but I can go to another country and get more than 7 times that amount with a car and proper health thrown in.

i don't want to be rude but, being offer 50k a month and you still complain, maybe you should go some where else, farang that come to Thailand and they think they can over take anything and complain that 50k is not enought, look around you. (sorry to be rude)

[singa-traz]

So even though I was happy to be paid 50k a month in Thailand, my sjills obviously don't suit all that well, but I can go to another country and get more than 7 times that amount with a car and proper health thrown in.

i don't want to be rude but, being offer 50k a month and you still complain, maybe you should go some where else, farang that come to Thailand and they think they can over take anything and complain that 50k is not enought, look around you. (sorry to be rude)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chingy, Thai IT project Manager with similar experience/expertise would also complain that 50KTHB is not enought.

A Foreigner or a Thai, with International experiences can target 2-3 times this number ... but can only blame himself for not finding anybody to see, and pay, his true value.

Worse case, he can still get a job in Singapore, which pay better than this.

[Indo-Siam]

Every time I see this kind of post/thread, I always come up with the same response: Hey, you want to earn 350,000 baht per month? No problem. I'll pay you that much. Just show me how adding you to my staff will immediately bring me 400,000 baht per month in additional revenue.

The "mystery" as to why high salaries are scarce here is extremely simple - it is almost impossible to recover a high salary, plus make additional profit, by adding a high-salaried person to the team. What you think you are worth is irrelevant - an employer will pay you whatever value you represent in profit to the employer.

When you get right down to it, most foreigners here who cry in their cups that their skills are not sufficiently valued here - have skills that simply are not able to be used to bring in substantial revenue here.

Unless you are in sales and marketing - which are positions that can affect revenue generation - then you are basically an expense. Whatever you are paid, has to be recovered by corresponding sales. Few IT Managers earning 350,000 baht per month are going to inspire the market to give 400,000+ baht per month more business tothe company. You can argue that a good manager will make up his value by reducing other costs along the way - offsetting his generous salary. Well, if you can prove this to an employer, you will get the job. Good luck.

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartp.com

[pedro01]

As an employer - I can tell you this.

I would expect a Thai on 50K per month to be happy & stay in the job for a reasonable amount of time.

I would expect a Farang on 50k per month to still be sniffing around for a better offer elsewhere.

BTW - my Project Manager earns 100K per month - 20+ years experience.

[CDB]

I'm agreed with Pedro & IndoSiam as I regularly get resumes from farang who expect 120-200 K THB a month but with no idea how they would provide that value to the company.

I employ both Thai and farang project managers in the range of 50-70 K THB a month plus 1% of the value of projects managed. Opportunities for promotion. No problem with work permits since we're BOI-sponsored.

It is probably harder to find really good Thai PMs than farang ones, but they do exist and many can do a better job than any farang. Why? They are bilingual and can better manage the Thai resources but also usually have lived overseas long enough to understand attitudes and client relations in farang land.

We don't have discrimination in the pay packages offered to farang or Thai PMs so the Thais tend to be satisfied much more then the farangs. The farang staff also have a far greater likelihood of quitting to leave Thailand (for various reasons) or jump to a higher paying position. I can't see many organizations that would need or could justify paying a farang project manager much more than a Thai one, so expectations outside the 50-100 K a month bracket are unrealistic. Sales is another matter, in that you can make proportionately as much as you can sell, and there are clear reasons why a farang might be able to sell bigger deals to multinationals than a Thai.

In the end I will agree that 50-100 K is a lousy salary if you plan to return to farangland and get into the housing market there. But if you are here for the long haul it sure beats teaching English.

To the original poster: yes there are PM positions for farang in Thailand as long as your expectations are sensible. But no I don't think there are recrutiment agencies that specialize in farangs, but perhaps some of the farang owned ones such as ISM might be helpful.

[Harmonica]

Every time I see this kind of post/thread, I always come up with the same response:  Hey, you want to earn 350,000 baht per month?  No problem.  I'll pay you that much.  Just show me how adding you to my staff will immediately bring me 400,000 baht per month in additional revenue.

The "mystery" as to why high salaries are scarce here is extremely simple - it is almost impossible to recover a high salary, plus make additional profit, by adding a high-salaried person to the team. What you think you are worth is irrelevant - an employer will pay you whatever value you represent in profit to the employer.

When you get right down to it, most foreigners here who cry in their cups that their skills are not sufficiently valued here - have skills that simply are not able to be used to bring in substantial revenue here.

Unless you are in sales and marketing - which are positions that can affect revenue generation - then you are basically an expense.  Whatever you are paid, has to be recovered by corresponding sales.  Few IT Managers earning 350,000 baht per month are going to  inspire the market to give 400,000+ baht per month more business tothe company.  You can argue that a good manager will make up his value by reducing other costs along the way - offsetting his generous salary.  Well, if you can prove this to an employer, you will get the job.  Good luck.

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartp.com

[BigA]

How does one go about applying at your company? So as to present qualifications and a cover letter?

I'm agreed with Pedro & IndoSiam as I regularly get resumes from farang who expect 120-200 K THB a month but with no idea how they would provide that value to the company.

I employ both Thai and farang project managers in the range of 50-70 K THB a month plus 1% of the value of projects managed. Opportunities for promotion. No problem with work permits since we're BOI-sponsored.

It is probably harder to find really good Thai PMs than farang ones, but they do exist and many can do a better job than any farang. Why? They are bilingual and can better manage the Thai resources but also usually have lived overseas long enough to understand attitudes and client relations in farang land.

We don't have discrimination in the pay packages offered to farang or Thai PMs so the Thais tend to be satisfied much more then the farangs. The farang staff also have a far greater likelihood of quitting to leave Thailand (for various reasons) or jump to a higher paying position. I can't see many organizations that would need or could justify paying a farang project manager much more than a Thai one, so expectations outside the 50-100 K a month bracket are unrealistic. Sales is another matter, in that you can make proportionately as much as you can sell, and there are clear reasons why a farang might be able to sell bigger deals to multinationals than a Thai.

In the end I will agree that 50-100 K is a lousy salary if you plan to return to farangland and get into the housing market there. But if you are here for the long haul it sure beats teaching English.

To the original poster: yes there are PM positions for farang in Thailand as long as your expectations are sensible. But no I don't think there are recrutiment agencies that specialize in farangs, but perhaps some of the farang owned ones such as ISM might be helpful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited February 7, 2005 by BigA

[Jai Dee]

Any thoughts are appreciated, and also if anyone can tell me a recruiter that deals with falang.

Have you tried JS Technical Services?

Or Brunel Technical Services?

I have some contacts in both companies if you're interested.