Lending Money To Thai Wife To Buy Land

[Livinginexile]

I would love to buy some land in Thailand and build a house.

There is no way I would do this if it meant putting the whole lot in my wife's name.

It's not that I don't trust her, it's more that I don't trust myself. One slip of infidelity and I know I would be out the door.

My question is; Would it be legally binding if I lent my wife the money to build her house? Would I have any redress in a court of law to get my money back if things turned tits up in the future?

This is assuming of course that a legally binding contract was drafted and signed by both of us.

Am I covered guys?

[A. BOOZER]

I would love to buy some land in Thailand and build a house.

There is no way I would do this if it meant putting the whole lot in my wife's name.

It's not that I don't trust her, it's more that I don't trust myself. One slip of infidelity and I know I would be out the door.

My question is; Would it be legally binding if I lent my wife the money to build her house? Would I have any redress in a court of law to get my money back if things turned tits up in the future?

This is assuming of course that a legally binding contract was drafted and signed by both of us.

Am I covered guys?

In a word: No!

You can let the wife buy the land as you cannot own land here, you then take out a 30 year lease from her, Any structure that you then build on the land is yours.

Edited May 9, 2009 by A. BOOZER

[kennkate]

If you are thinking this Now before you GIVE her the money DONT

I would not like to think that I could tie this LOAN up leagaly and trust Thai Law if it went Belly Up

Like it has been said many times before on TV. Only invest what you can walk away from.

That realy is the bottom line And dammed good Advise

[chiangmaibruce]

As with many of these Thai legal questions, you might not get your definitive answer until you slug it out in court. But I would say that you would probably NOT be protected by a simple loan agreement ...

Refer to Section 1469 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code:

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage, provided that the right of third parties acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

Also be aware that when your wife bought the land you would have to sign a statement saying that it was her personal property (Sin Suan Tua) which is generally not claimable in a divorce situation

[Chaimai]

I would suggest that this question is better asked of a lawyer, rather than on an anonymous forum.

I suspect that you will attract a whole range of responses.

My sixpenneth is talk to a lawyer and look at 'protecting' your position with a mortgage/usufruct/lease.

[Livinginexile]

I would suggest that this question is better asked of a lawyer, rather than on an anonymous forum.

I suspect that you will attract a whole range of responses.

My sixpenneth is talk to a lawyer and look at 'protecting' your position with a mortgage/usufruct/lease.

Yes I will talk to a lawyer about this issue net time I am in Thailand. My family and I now live in Australia.

It's just a thought at this time, testing the market so to speak.

Any comments are welcome as knowledge is king and others personal experience is priceless.

It looks like a condo is the go but if there is any legal way to protect my money I would much prefer a house.

As I stated, I am not that silly as to put all my money in the name of someone else...wife or not.

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Cheers

[InterestedObserver]

The only thing close to protection, under the circumstances outlined, would be a mortgage recorded on the back of the chanote. Better to lease back the land from the wife and then build a house in your name, or record a usufruct.

[Penkoprod]

Isnt this kind of thing being scrutinised more and more these days?

I seem to remember reading on here that the buyer of the land needs to prove the money comes from within Thailand, and is THEIR capital, and not "farang bought in all but name"

Penkoprod

[InterestedObserver]

Isnt this kind of thing being scrutinised more and more these days?

I seem to remember reading on here that the buyer of the land needs to prove the money comes from within Thailand, and is THEIR capital, and not "farang bought in all but name"

Penkoprod

The "farang" has to sign a statement to that effect at the Land Department before the wife can get the Chanote.

[stgrhe]

I would love to buy some land in Thailand and build a house.

There is no way I would do this if it meant putting the whole lot in my wife's name.

It's not that I don't trust her, it's more that I don't trust myself. One slip of infidelity and I know I would be out the door.

My question is; Would it be legally binding if I lent my wife the money to build her house? Would I have any redress in a court of law to get my money back if things turned tits up in the future?

This is assuming of course that a legally binding contract was drafted and signed by both of us.

Am I covered guys?

In a word: No!

You can let the wife buy the land as you cannot own land here, you then take out a 30 year lease from her, Any structure that you then build on the land is yours.

That is not correct if they have registered their marriage. Although the structure can be in the farang's name the property is in fact according to Thai law regarded as 'Sin Somros' and thus equally owned by both spouses. However, if they haven't registered the marriage then a pre-nup agreement can be set up to 'protect' the full ownership of the structure.

This is the wording of Section 1474 of the Civil & Commercial Code:

Section 1474 – Sin Somros consists of:

(1) property acquired during marriage;

(2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros; and

(3) fruits of Sin Suan Tua.

In case of doubt as to whether a property is Sin Somros or not it shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

[Penkoprod]

Isnt this kind of thing being scrutinised more and more these days?

I seem to remember reading on here that the buyer of the land needs to prove the money comes from within Thailand, and is THEIR capital, and not "farang bought in all but name"

Penkoprod

The "farang" has to sign a statement to that effect at the Land Department before the wife can get the Chanote.

OK, that covers one of the potential pitfalls. What about the proving the money comes from within Thailand?

Reason i ask is a friend of mine (honest......its NOT me!!!) is thinking of doing similar. The fact that he has a marriage similar to Richard Burton/Liz Taylor is the main reason i am trying to disuade him from going ahead with this (IMO) folly

Basically what i am trying to do is find as many "spanner in the works" reasons why he shouldnt proceed. Then when it all goes t*its up like i suspect it may well do, at least i was the friend that tried to alert him, and wont feel guilty for just standing by and letting it happen to him.

Penkoprod

[think_too_mut]

My question is; Would it be legally binding if I lent my wife the money to build her house? Would I have any redress in a court of law to get my money back if things turned tits up in the future?

Years back, I saw people doing it. Making a contract with their wife, about the loan, no mention what it is for. Just money loan and money repay contract.

It was about land and house purchase, in disguise.

Half cooked, never heard how they went afterwards.

[thaiwanderer]

potential spanners

voidability of loan between farang and wife

land office declaration of no interest by farang

land office discretion whether to register the loan

land office discretion whether to register any other interest (lease, usufruct etc.) to the farang (by which time of course monies spent)

key spanner

as long as the thai wife is involved, the stronger the farang secures his interest the more reason the thai wife may want the farang out of the way

none of this is a problem if love rules for both forever but given OP's sentiments possible he may succumb to other's charms

if love rules (or your willing to let her have it all if break up) best way for farang to enjoy property is just to put it in thai girlfriend/wife's name (but this is 100% a gift and for some reason appears not favoured by farang loverboys)

securing a farang's interests in thai property is another matter entirely and should never involve thai wife, girlfriend or friend

appropriately complex company route should always be preferred if involving non-condo

[473geo]

I have seen many attempts at protecting assetts.....house /land etc. The problems arise when the chanote is passed to a loan shark. The choice then is simply retrieve it by making good the borrowing......or the house/land is lost.

I may be wrong......this is just as I see it......the house may become an asset to borrow against...and in casesI have knowledge of this has happened.

Perhaps somebody can explain which 'self protect' mechanism can avoid this scenario?

[bojo]

A friend of mine once informed me that a Thai national can register a loan with someone with the property as collateral. The details/conditions of the loan will be written on the back of the title deed with registration of the loan at the land office. I don't know if this applies to a foreigner lending the money to a Thai. Possible to use this somehow? Someone with more knowledge could answer that maybe.

Regards Bojo

[thaiwanderer]

473geo:

......protect from this by having 'own' name on chanote (or rather a name that is legitimate and effectively controlled by you as far as is possible - see above, no 100% certainties in life)

a thai wife might have farang husband's interests at heart so net effect the same but.........

bojo:

problems for this as my thread above

Edited May 9, 2009 by thaiwanderer

[basjke]

I have bought land in the past,registered in a thai friends name,and on which she signed a loan agreement with me that was registered at the land office.My name is on the back of the chanoot and the chanoot is in my possession.Additional I took a 3 year lease which doesn't need to be registered at the land office and which will be renewed every 3 years.

Lawyer told me that if she was my wife the loan would be easily declared as fake if it went to court.

[donx]

potential spanners

voidability of loan between farang and wife

land office declaration of no interest by farang

land office discretion whether to register the loan

land office discretion whether to register any other interest (lease, usufruct etc.) to the farang (by which time of course monies spent)

key spanner

as long as the thai wife is involved, the stronger the farang secures his interest the more reason the thai wife may want the farang out of the way

none of this is a problem if love rules for both forever but given OP's sentiments possible he may succumb to other's charms

if love rules (or your willing to let her have it all if break up) best way for farang to enjoy property is just to put it in thai girlfriend/wife's name (but this is 100% a gift and for some reason appears not favoured by farang loverboys)

securing a farang's interests in thai property is another matter entirely and should never involve thai wife, girlfriend or friend

appropriately complex company route should always be preferred if involving non-condo

This post pretty much sums up the OP's choices. Think of the land purchase as a gift. Build a house separately and hope in the event of a divorce that you can get 50% of the value of the house. Or if this property is something you intend on holding onto yourself if there is a divorce, then use the Thai company route to secure the property.

[Arkady]

A friend of mine once informed me that a Thai national can register a loan with someone with the property as collateral. The details/conditions of the loan will be written on the back of the title deed with registration of the loan at the land office. I don't know if this applies to a foreigner lending the money to a Thai. Possible to use this somehow? Someone with more knowledge could answer that maybe.

Regards Bojo

You should be able to have a mortgage in your name recorded on the chanote, although in the event of foreclosure the foreign mortgagor would have to appoint a Thai collection agent to take possession of the property, sell it and pay you the proceeds. The problem is that by doing this you are drawing attention to the fact that the property was financed through a loan from an indivual foreigner. You and the Thai owner could be investigated at any time in the future for using a nominee structure. You had better make sure you have proper loan documents, that the loan is structured to make commercial sense and that interest is paid by some one who has enough income to pay it and that you are paying tax on the interest. If the foreign lender is living in the house and not receiving any interest on the loan, it is pretty clear that this is a nominee structure and you would be giving yourself up to anyone who looked into it as a sacrificial lamb.

Usufruct or 30 year lease seems to be the best protection. That at least makes it impossible for the land to be sold or hocked. I don't see much advantage in getting a house registered in your own name, except that you can get a yellow tabian baan. In order to own the house, you have to have a secure long-term lease anyway and if that expires or is contested, you have the right to remove the house but in most cases, unless you have a moveable teak house, that would just be pile of rubble. It might however, give some people satisfaction to demolish the house.