Driving In Thailand

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

I'd like to add my two baht's worth. I have been driving here only about 30 months, driving an at least twenty year-old Honda Civic. First time I've had a car in twenty years. Driven around the north a few times, but any "long hauls," never south farther than Lampang; most of my driving has been within Muang Chiang Mai. No accidents yet while I was in the car, but the car has a nicely smashed right front fender courtesy of anonymous somebody while it was parked.

I join in with those of you here who have expressed the idea that you "must" go with the flow of traffic, and that to do otherwise is dangerous. And I join with those who have expressed the idea that Thai traffic is a bloody mess, and a free-for-all, and extremely dangerous, and that's based on many experience as a passenger in various vehicles before I drove a car here.

I personally view Thai driving as often a form of violent self-expression, as well as a result of lack of socialization to the rule of law, lack of any real driver education, etc. It makes more sense to me to infer "national character" from what people actually do than to work backwards from some "idealized" conception of a people as "peaceful" trying to rationalize what you observe every day.

But before you interpret those words as some global indictment of Thailand, I'd say the same thing about driving in New York or Delhi. And, as RealThaiDeal commented about Vietnam, in India they drive with one hand constantly blowing the dam_n horn.

In my book Thailand is a violent society; on an interpersonal level, in social interaction, the conspiracy to create a superficially peaceful harmony where everybody is "sabai dee" using whatever amount of "khrieng jai" it takes ... that's another story. Homicide rates are high here; domestic violence rates are high here. Cruelty to animals direct and indirect is extreme. Those of you who have been here long enough will understand that perceptions like these do not contradict "loving" Thailand, and really liking the genuine positive aspects of many Thai people, and respecting how their unique culture, free of the poisoning of domination by a colonial power, is adapting to so-called "modern" times, but no less a "colonial power" itself if you look at the historical traditions of raiding for population through which Lanna and other areas was populated.

In driving here I am frequently aggressively tail-gated in a way that comes close to vehicular assault ... and yes, I get the hel_l out of the way as best as I can since I don't own a gun

In driving here I am frequently almost run off the road (independent of the road width, and independent of the presence or absence of motorcycles, scooters, and independent of whether it is day or night) by cars driving straddling both lanes. Yes, I get over, I blow my horn.

In driving cars pull in front of me from side-streets so quickly I have to often slam on the brakes.

I notice a correlation (and I'm saying this is only a correlation) between the kind of vehicle that is aggressively tail-gating me or coming down the road "playing chicken" with me. In my experience the newer and larger the vehicle (the more a status symbol ?) the more aggressive the driver.

By the way my windows are heavily tinted, and I believe it's generally not possible for drivers to see that I am a farang driver.

~o:37;

[purplehaze]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

And, as RealThaiDeal commented about Vietnam, in India they drive with one hand constantly blowing the dam_n horn.

<deleted> pot calling the kettle black me thinks.The top knobs should be looking at road related death stats and alarm bells should be ringing.What can we do to lower the death and injury rate,perhaps a change to driving lessons/test try to change the behavour of the driver,tv camera's at traffic lights

,junctions etc=more fines =more money,if no money confiscate vehicle,still no pay melt it down and sell for scrap.You have to change attitude of drivers sometime.

[femi fan]

When people get right up behind my car, i make it obvious that i'm looking in my mirror at them, sort of saying 'you've got too close to me'. Frequently they drop back.

I've done my share of complaining about the driving here, in fact it's the hardest thing for me to accept about living in thailand.

However there are two sides to every story.

I'd prefer to be here than in australia where they've taken traffic laws to the nth extreme. In britain now one has to look at the speedo frequently to make sure you're not doing 1 mph too much or the camera will get you and ask for loads of money.

Less deaths on the roads, but much less freedom too.

No danger of road rage here (well, i've seen a bit in bangkok). I've had people who literally have been prepared to drive me off the road in britain. Not so here.

I just had a holiday in nepal, and relative to there, the driving here is a beacon of civility and safety and driving skills.

As for the poster who has decided thailand is such a violent country, where's the road rage then?

Personally i think most people get in their cars and as they turn their engines on, so they turn their brains off. It's an interesting phenomenon how people change once they get behind a wheel.

And thai driving reflects a fundamental thai trait i think: wanting life to simply be as easy as possible.

[venturalaw]

When people get right up behind my car, i make it obvious that i'm looking in my mirror at them, sort of saying 'you've got too close to me'. Frequently they drop back.

I've done my share of complaining about the driving here, in fact it's the hardest thing for me to accept about living in thailand.

However there are two sides to every story.

I'd prefer to be here than in australia where they've taken traffic laws to the nth extreme. In britain now one has to look at the speedo frequently to make sure you're not doing 1 mph too much or the camera will get you and ask for loads of money.

Less deaths on the roads, but much less freedom too.

No danger of road rage here (well, i've seen a bit in bangkok). I've had people who literally have been prepared to drive me off the road in britain. Not so here.

I just had a holiday in nepal, and relative to there, the driving here is a beacon of civility and safety and driving skills.

As for the poster who has decided thailand is such a violent country, where's the road rage then?

Personally i think most people get in their cars and as they turn their engines on, so they turn their brains off. It's an interesting phenomenon how people change once they get behind a wheel.

And thai driving reflects a fundamental thai trait i think: wanting life to simply be as easy as possible.

Today I saw a man get out of his car running up to the car in front of him. Being formerly from California, I thought that I was going to witness a fight. But then several others joined him - to help push a stalled car off to the side of the road. It reminded me (again) of why I live here. Someone told me that Thais are the greatest, except when they are behind the wheel of a car. Well, they are aggressive drivers (many of them) and will often speed to get in front of you, cut you off, etc. Basically, it reminds me of the way teenagers drive in the states. I refer to my driving here as offensive driving. But I would not trade living here for anywhere else. So, why complain?

[Puwa]

I see road rage all the time: drivers forcing other cars to escape onto the shoulder rather than let them merge, tailgating within a few inches, cutting across multiple lanes of highway traffic to complete a pass. Seen fistfights even. Lots of very aggressive drivers here, emboldened no doubt by knowing that the laws are weak and accountability is scarce. Plus, it's ok to take your hostility out on anonymous strangers.

[orang37]

Sawadee Khrup, TV Friends,

First : I think my first post over-stated the case, and could have been written much more clearly, and could have distinguished American style "road rage" from Thai style "passive aggressiveness."

Second, the concept of the sociologist, Thomas Scheff, of "residual norms" may actually be useful here : "residual norms" are customary ways of doing things that are generally not encoded, written into law, found in books of "etiquette," etc. Think about when you were a teenager, and had a first "real kiss" with a potential boy-girl friend : how did you know what was appropriate and when ? Well, through hanging with your peers and talking, of course, or perhaps with the assistance of a drive-in movie and some beer stolen from your parents for my generation

But, if you'll grant that "driving" for many Thais is NOT a situation where they are socialized to do things Americans are programmed-to-the-neuron-level to do : like stopping on a red light, Thai traffic as me-first-you-don't-exist pachinko-game makes more sense. In that sense I tend to see Thai traffic as a phenomenon of "cultural lag" : it is an area of "residual norms" which the society is making attempts at changing on some level.

But while we are on the topic, I'm curious as to why at four different accident scenes (three involving motorcycles, one involving an overturned over-loaded small pick-up truck) I was "first on the scene," and first to actually physically help the downed motorcyclists, get up, get the bikes upright, get off the street, or, in the case of the pick-up truck (on the highway 107 going north to Fang) : I was fifty meters behind a whole pickup truck of young Thais who were in the vehicle just behind the overturned vehicle : how is it that a sixty-year plus farang can stop his car, get out, and get to the overturned pickup, and get the door open, and help the occupants (who, miraculously, had only minor cuts and contusions) get out of the cab and get away from the vehicle : while the young Thais in the pickup truck (and its driver and passenger) just watched like they were watching teevee ?

Only one of the motorcycle accidents involved a farang, and he had fallen over rounding a corner (maybe too fast ? maybe was on a rental bike and new to cycling ?) and was half-lying in the road when I passed by on a tuk-tuk : I told the driver to stop, and then both the driver and I helped him up. He was dizzy, in a mild state of shock think, but not seriously injured : I counselled him to be sure and get to a hospital and make sure he did not have a concussion if he was dizzy or had a headache. There were maybe twenty Thai people in the immediate area who were just going about their business, ignoring the collapsed farang.

I am delighted to hear of these "samaritan" experiences ! And I applaud folks like Khun Jungian who help others. In my years here there have been many instances of helpful behavior towards me by Thais, and those are "treasured," just none yet on the highways.

And what, may I ask, do you make of the popular Thai magazines that are collections of gory pictures of violent deaths by homicide, traffic accident, etc. ? That's a real question : I personally don't know what to "make" of them. The English playwright, Joe Orton, in "Comedians" has one of his characters say at one point : "the essence of humour is someone else gets hurt." That doesn't digest well with soy milk for moi.

I am interested if anyone else has a "hypothesis" that there is a correlation between the size, newness, and expense of a vehicle (car) and the tendency of the driver to drive more aggressively.

best, ~o:37;

[jumnien]

Thai drivers are the worst. So many times I've been ...... "God dammit, watch where you are going!"

Sorry, I was just cut off again. I'm trying to text message this post in while driving and these stupid Thai drivers are not making it any easier. When will they learn?

[Ajarn]

A bit of driving advice from a driver very familiar with driving here. http://asiarecipe.com/larry/motor.html

[gpdjohn]

Thai drivers are the worst. So many times I've been ...... "God dammit, watch where you are going!"

Sorry, I was just cut off again. I'm trying to text message this post in while driving and these stupid Thai drivers are not making it any easier. When will they learn?