My Modest Proposal To Solve Thailand's Political Crisis

[Jingthing]

It is an American cultural trait, obnoxious or not, to observe things in foreign countries and make suggestions as to how to fix them. I don't shy away from that, I am proud to be American and I possess some typical American cultural traits.

In that spirit, here is my proposal on how Thailand can emerge from the current virtual civil war that currently shows no signs of improving anytime soon.

1. A new charismatic leader must emerge. He must be wealthy and well known, be totally clean of corruption, totally divorced from any hint of alliance with the reds or the yellows. This idea is impossible without such a person and I don't know of anyone like that. However, assuming such a person exists, the plan continues.

2. A new party is created, called something like the Thai Peace, Justice, and Reunification Party. It would be a compromise party that gives and takes to all sides as fairly as possible.

This is not far fetched for Thailand. Thaksin's TRT was created in the Thaksin era.

3. The new parties political agenda as follows

-- Openly admit Thailand is in a virtual civil war and they are the way out

-- Openly divorce from Thaksin and the red movement, and ALSO the yellow movement

-- Reject the entire color coding system, no colors for this new party

-- Clearly label Thaksin a criminal

-- Clearly label certain yellow leaders also criminals

-- Promise to create a justice structure that would expose, investigate, and punish all political criminals, red and yellow. However, the promise would be that this is a political process only and jail terms will not be a consequence, only lifetime bans from holding political office. This kind of thing happens in other countries, for example South Africa after apartheid

-- Seek the old red base, North, Isaan, etc, that is willing to reject the old vioilence and Thaksin as well

-- Seek the yellow Bangkok and southern democrat base, on the basis that Abhisit is too politically compromised to be able to deliver real peace and reunification

-- Adopt populist economic policies, some similar to Thaksin (Abhisit has tried this as well). For example, more activism for poor people's health care, education, and small business development

-- Adopt strong pro-democratic policies, promise to end press censorship

-- Favor an activist anti-corruption effort to radically reform the Thai election process so that elections can no longer be bought

[TEFLMike]

Well, it appears that we can leave it all in your hands then

[Jingthing]

Well, it appears that we can leave it all in your hands then

No thanks.

Not qualified.

It is only my modest proposal.

Sometimes foreigners can see foreign countries more clearly than natives.

Although I don't think such a solution is the slightest bit likely, I think it actually could work. The real life alternatives that are playing out now are very dreadful.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[Pierrot]

Obviously you have too much time on your hand.

A friendly advise, maybe it doesn't sound that way but actually it's friendly,

Get a life !

[Jingthing]

Get a life !

OK, yes sir, will do ...

Back to the topic, another obvious flaw (other than the lack of a person to lead it) of this idea is that such an OPEN BRIGHT LIGHT policy would threaten ALL the current power structures. So for there to be any chance for success of such a movement, it would have to be a real PEOPLES POWER movement such as happened in the Philippines against Marcos. I do believe the vast silent majority in Thailand is not strongly aligned red or yellow at all, they are bloody sick of all of this mess. So I think they could potentially get the votes but the resistance would be daunting. Plus it would dangerous to lead such a radical movement as well.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[flying]

America is a 234 or so year old baby...How old is Siam?

There is a saying remove the mote from your own eye before trying to clear others vision.

Being American I am usually embarrassed by how many other Americans, who obviously did not like things in America.

Move to another country & then try to inflict the same ideas on that new found country that probably wrecked their old country. Why not just stay home & fix that place instead? Oh.........

Ahhhhhh

Mai Bpen Rai

Mai Bpen Rai

Edited May 9, 2009 by flying

[JetsetBkk]

...

1. A new charismatic leader must emerge. He must be wealthy...

✔ Check.

...and well known...

✔ Check.

...be totally clean of corruption...

Dämn.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, a pipe dream. Thanks Jetset for responding to the content of the topic anyway ,,,

[cobra]

Obviously you have too much time on your hand.

A friendly advise, maybe it doesn't sound that way but actually it's friendly,

Get a life !

well said, our sentiments exactly.

[wxpwzrd]

Or we could be really stupid and do the same thing we do to other countries - force western (US/Euro) democracy on them.

[Jingthing]

Or we could be really stupid and do the same thing we do to other countries - force western (US/Euro) democracy on them.

Not bloody likely. Faranags can't even buy land and houses here.

If you bother to read my scenario, you will see there is nothing in there, nothing at all, that isn't directly related to Thailand issues and what many Thai people indeed do wish for:

health care

better education for the masses

stamping out corruption

democracy

peace

unity

harmony

prosperity

healing

moving forward

a compromise way out to deal with the elephant out of the room, Thaksin

Note: comments about my personal life are NOT welcome, "friends"

Edited May 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[dee123]

hey Gandhi wasn't rich! its only USA where u need cash to get elected!! if u are looking for someone who fits the profile u created then Thai senator Jon Ungpakorn is your man.OK he is half British but look at Obama.

Edited May 9, 2009 by dee123

[johna]

Great idea, Thailand can use America's experience in nation building from Pinochet's Chile, to

Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Though I think Thailand's neighbors viewing Pakistan might be a little nervous.

Oh and any Thai wannabe PM with an election platform of serious reform would not live long enough to get elected.

[JR Texas]

It is an American cultural trait, obnoxious or not, to observe things in foreign countries and make suggestions as to how to fix them. I don't shy away from that, I am proud to be American and I possess some typical American cultural traits.

In that spirit, here is my proposal on how Thailand can emerge from the current virtual civil war that currently shows no signs of improving anytime soon.

1. A new charismatic leader must emerge. He must be wealthy and well known, be totally clean of corruption, totally divorced from any hint of alliance with the reds or the yellows. This idea is impossible without such a person and I don't know of anyone like that. However, assuming such a person exists, the plan continues.

2. A new party is created, called something like the Thai Peace, Justice, and Reunification Party. It would be a compromise party that gives and takes to all sides as fairly as possible.

This is not far fetched for Thailand. Thaksin's TRT was created in the Thaksin era.

3. The new parties political agenda as follows

-- Openly admit Thailand is in a virtual civil war and they are the way out

-- Openly divorce from Thaksin and the red movement, and ALSO the yellow movement

-- Reject the entire color coding system, no colors for this new party

-- Clearly label Thaksin a criminal

-- Clearly label certain yellow leaders also criminals

-- Promise to create a justice structure that would expose, investigate, and punish all political criminals, red and yellow. However, the promise would be that this is a political process only and jail terms will not be a consequence, only lifetime bans from holding political office. This kind of thing happens in other countries, for example South Africa after apartheid

-- Seek the old red base, North, Isaan, etc, that is willing to reject the old vioilence and Thaksin as well

-- Seek the yellow Bangkok and southern democrat base, on the basis that Abhisit is too politically compromised to be able to deliver real peace and reunification

-- Adopt populist economic policies, some similar to Thaksin (Abhisit has tried this as well). For example, more activism for poor people's health care, education, and small business development

-- Adopt strong pro-democratic policies, promise to end press censorship

-- Favor an activist anti-corruption effort to radically reform the Thai election process so that elections can no longer be bought

This man would be at the top of my list as a charismatic figure who is not corrupt who can fix the problem:

Mechai Viravaidya (born January 17, 1941, Thai: มีชัย วีระไวทยะ) is a politician and activist in Thailand who has popularized condoms in that country.[1]

Since the 1970s, Mechai has been affectionately known as "Mr. Condom", and condoms are sometimes referred to as "mechais" in Thailand.[2]

Mechai was born in Australia to a Scottish mother and a Thai father[3]. He has a sister, Sumalee, who was formerly a journalist in Bangkok. Meechai was educated at Geelong Grammar School. In the mid-1960s he came to Thailand and started to work in family planning, emphasizing condoms. In 1973, he left government and founded a non-profit service organization, the Population and Community Development Association (PDA), to continue the working to improve the lives of the rural poor. Among other things, he held condom blowing contests for school children, encouraged taxi cab drivers to hand out condoms to their customers, and founded a restaurant chain called "Cabbages and Condoms" where condoms, rather than mints, are served after the meal.

Mechai served as deputy minister of industry from 1985 to 1986 under prime minister Prem Tinsulanonda. He served as senator from 1987 until 1991. During this time AIDS appeared in Thailand, and he increased his efforts to promote sexual-safety awareness.

A military coup in 1991 installed prime minister Anand Panyarachun; Panyarachun then appointed Viravaidya minister for tourism, information and AIDS. He was able to start a large and quite successful education campaign and served until 1992.

In 2004, Mechai again became a senator. As of 2007, he continues to oversee rural development and health initiatives as the Chairman of PDA. On May 29, 2007 PDA was awarded the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's Gates Award in recognition of its pioneering work in family planning and HIV/AIDS prevention.[4]

An interesting side note is the large abortion clinic which openly operates next to the Condoms and Cabbages restaurant. This is one of several places in Bangkok where women can purchase a professional abortion on demand, a practice which is technically illegal in the country.[5] The clinic is tolerated, purportedly though not officially through arrangements made by Mechai Viravaidya.[citation needed]

He won praise from the toilet industry (but criticism from the retail industry) for proposing that retailers be obliged to build a public toilet for every 10 square metres of retail space.[6]

[Jungian]

I'm one American obnoxious or not that thinks we need to fix our own problems before we suggest to others what they should do. As we have almost single handedly destroyed the world economy not to mention the environment, I hardly think we have room to speak. I am thankful that our new president has the wisdom and insight to see the kind of pompous attitude of superiority that got us into trouble in the first place and has started to repair relationships in Europe starting with the French who we could take quite a few lessons from and the United Kingdom who have guided us through our adolescents. Thailand has survived for thousands of years with less bloodshed and war than we have had in the past 233 years I think they will be fine without us swimming in their soup.

[Jingthing]

My suggestion was sincere and in no way coming from an attitude of superiority. If you think that, you didn't even read it. Another point, Siam may be old, but its modern democracy stage has hardly begun. Compare to the mature stable system in the US that has functioned for hundreds of years, well, there is no comparison. I did not propose the US system here or suggest a change from a parliamentary system, but now that you mention it, of course constitutional reform would be a necessary part of any major change here. They are of course already talking about that. I am sorry I mentioned the American part, it only enrages/confuses people. Of course I agree any leader of such a major change movement would be at serious risk for his life. He would have to be a real selfless patriot and hero. One reason I figured a charismatic leader is a necessary ingredient for Thailand to make this sea change is the phenom of Thaksin. He was that, but he was a very corrupt, selfish, flawed one. Thai people really went for that, so the idea is that same energy that went for Thaksin if directed to a leader that was sincerely for positive change would be powerful.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Jingthing

[LawnGnome]

My suggestion was sincere and in no way coming from an attitude of superiority. If you think that, you didn't even read it. Another point, Siam may be old, but its modern democracy stage has hardly begun. Compare to the mature stable system in the US that has functioned for hundreds of years, well, there is no comparison. I did not propose the US system here or suggest a change from a parliamentary system, but now that you mention it, of course constitutional reform would be a necessary part of any major change here. They are of course already talking about that. I am sorry I mentioned the American part, it only enrages/confuses people. Of course I agree any leader of such a major change movement would be at serious risk for his life. He would have to be a real selfless patriot and hero. One reason I figured a charismatic leader is a necessary ingredient for Thailand to make this sea change is the phenom of Thaksin. He was that, but he was a very corrupt, selfish, flawed one. Thai people really went for that, so the idea is that same energy that went for Thaksin if directed to a leader that was sincerely for positive change would be powerful.

I appreciated your ideas JT. Don't worry about the naysayers. They're only happy when they are tearing someone else down. Good ideas are what we need.

Frankly, I think that Abhisit fits your ideal leader qualities. He suffers from the poor quality of some of the people he has to associate with. But when there is no other choice, the least objectionable becomes acceptable.

[Pierrot]

My suggestion was sincere and in no way coming from an attitude of superiority. If you think that, you didn't even read it. Another point, Siam may be old, but its modern democracy stage has hardly begun. Compare to the mature stable system in the US that has functioned for hundreds of years, well, there is no comparison. I did not propose the US system here or suggest a change from a parliamentary system, but now that you mention it, of course constitutional reform would be a necessary part of any major change here. They are of course already talking about that. I am sorry I mentioned the American part, it only enrages/confuses people. Of course I agree any leader of such a major change movement would be at serious risk for his life. He would have to be a real selfless patriot and hero. One reason I figured a charismatic leader is a necessary ingredient for Thailand to make this sea change is the phenom of Thaksin. He was that, but he was a very corrupt, selfish, flawed one. Thai people really went for that, so the idea is that same energy that went for Thaksin if directed to a leader that was sincerely for positive change would be powerful.

Your agenda is clearly against Thaksin. Unfortunately (for you), a huge number of people in Thailand still see Thaksin as the democratically elected leader of this country. So whatever solution that may be found, it has to include Thaksin.

[Jungian]

I would hardly consider anything stable in the US when we pump money into bankrupt corporations that have raped the environment and extorted the people so they can slap each other on the back and give out big bonuses for driving their respective companies into the ground, government bailouts are not democratic nor are they capitalistic. I did indeed read your post twice as a matter of fact and in no way is this a personal attack but when we have to borrow trillions from China to get out of the "red" (no pun intended) something is amok. When I was in university one of my professors told me what makes a third world country is when a country strips itself of its natural resources and exports them in turn the importing country turns those raw materials into things like computers, cars, TV's, etc. and the country that exported the raw materials buys the finished product at a much higher price than they sold for, I don't necessarily agree with that in the real world but it looks good on paper. We no longer own an automobile manufacture, a TV or radio manufacture, computer manufacture (only assemblers) we import a large quantity of our food, hel_l we even sold off Budweiser (that's not breaking my heart). If you want to see democracy in action I would suggest we take a look at England or Australia it is a much closer model of what Thailand wants to be. Granted no form of government is perfect but we have really screwed things up in a big way. I would like to mention in closing I am a patriot and I love my country although I have lived in Asia for half of my life I have never considered my self an "expat" I'm just living abroad even if it turns out to be permanent.

[LawnGnome]

My suggestion was sincere and in no way coming from an attitude of superiority. If you think that, you didn't even read it. Another point, Siam may be old, but its modern democracy stage has hardly begun. Compare to the mature stable system in the US that has functioned for hundreds of years, well, there is no comparison. I did not propose the US system here or suggest a change from a parliamentary system, but now that you mention it, of course constitutional reform would be a necessary part of any major change here. They are of course already talking about that. I am sorry I mentioned the American part, it only enrages/confuses people. Of course I agree any leader of such a major change movement would be at serious risk for his life. He would have to be a real selfless patriot and hero. One reason I figured a charismatic leader is a necessary ingredient for Thailand to make this sea change is the phenom of Thaksin. He was that, but he was a very corrupt, selfish, flawed one. Thai people really went for that, so the idea is that same energy that went for Thaksin if directed to a leader that was sincerely for positive change would be powerful.

Your agenda is clearly against Thaksin. Unfortunately (for you), a huge number of people in Thailand still see Thaksin as the democratically elected leader of this country. So whatever solution that may be found, it has to include Thaksin.

Huge - well, lets see how many of that "Huge number" show up today for the last rally before planting season. Should bolster or discredit your comments more than my poor powers to add or detract.

[Pierrot]

I would hardly consider anything stable in the US when we pump money into bankrupt corporations that have raped the environment and extorted the people so they can slap each other on the back and give out big bonuses for driving their respective companies into the ground, government bailouts are not democratic nor are they capitalistic.

No, it's just realistic. Something had to be done to alleviate the pain of average people.

I did indeed read your post twice as a matter of fact and in no way is this a personal attack but when we have to borrow trillions from China to get out of the "red" (no pun intended) something is amok.

Maybe it's time to realize that anglo-saxon capitalism is not the best system in the world. I mean, if I were a supporter of this theory, it would be a could time to ask myself some question ...

When I was in university one of my professors told me what makes a third world country is when a country strips itself of its natural resources and exports them in turn the importing country turns those raw materials into things like computers, cars, TV's, etc. and the country that exported the raw materials buys the finished product at a much higher price than they sold for, I don't necessarily agree with that in the real world but it looks good on paper. We no longer own an automobile manufacture, a TV or radio manufacture, computer manufacture (only assemblers) we import a large quantity of our food, hel_l we even sold off Budweiser (that's not breaking my heart). If you want to see democracy in action I would suggest we take a look at England or Australia it is a much closer model of what Thailand wants to be. Granted no form of government is perfect but we have really screwed things up in a big way. I would like to mention in closing I am a patriot and I love my country although I have lived in Asia for half of my life I have never considered my self an "expat" I'm just living abroad even if it turns out to be permanent.

The USA are a democratic country. Actually it's a great model in action. When you see the excess of the Bush administration and the way a democratic process corrected these excess, democracy is definitively the way to go.

[LawnGnome]

The USA are a democratic country. Actually it's a great model in action. When you see the excess of the Bush administration and the way a democratic process corrected these excess, democracy is definitively the way to go.

On this, you and I are in complete agreement P.

[Pierrot]

Your agenda is clearly against Thaksin. Unfortunately (for you), a huge number of people in Thailand still see Thaksin as the democratically elected leader of this country. So whatever solution that may be found, it has to include Thaksin.

Huge - well, lets see how many of that "Huge number" show up today for the last rally before planting season. Should bolster or discredit your comments more than my poor powers to add or detract.

As I'm not a supporter of mob power, I don't really care about the number of people turning to a demonstration. Actually I don't think demonstration is the proper way to express one's political opinion, election is. And so far election have always bring the same people to power.

[JR Texas]

I would hardly consider anything stable in the US when we pump money into bankrupt corporations that have raped the environment and extorted the people so they can slap each other on the back and give out big bonuses for driving their respective companies into the ground, government bailouts are not democratic nor are they capitalistic. I did indeed read your post twice as a matter of fact and in no way is this a personal attack but when we have to borrow trillions from China to get out of the "red" (no pun intended) something is amok. When I was in university one of my professors told me what makes a third world country is when a country strips itself of its natural resources and exports them in turn the importing country turns those raw materials into things like computers, cars, TV's, etc. and the country that exported the raw materials buys the finished product at a much higher price than they sold for, I don't necessarily agree with that in the real world but it looks good on paper. We no longer own an automobile manufacture, a TV or radio manufacture, computer manufacture (only assemblers) we import a large quantity of our food, hel_l we even sold off Budweiser (that's not breaking my heart). If you want to see democracy in action I would suggest we take a look at England or Australia it is a much closer model of what Thailand wants to be. Granted no form of government is perfect but we have really screwed things up in a big way. I would like to mention in closing I am a patriot and I love my country although I have lived in Asia for half of my life I have never considered my self an "expat" I'm just living abroad even if it turns out to be permanent.

So many people want to blame the USA. It is the world's largest economy. And it is extremely influential in terms of world affairs. But there is another truth.

There is a ruling elite in each country. Those are the people (men and women) who stand at the top of the corporate-political-military triangle of power.

The ruling elite, worldwide, have made extraordinarily bad, short-sighted decisions over the past 50 years (actually longer). They control what we see, hear, think.........and the masses follow like sheep.

The status quo is geared to make slaves out of the masses........it is geared to enrich the ruling elite at the expense of the masses and future generations.

This is true in all countries......not just the USA.

We have entered an information war between progressives who see the truth of what I just said and those who are, in effect, exploiting themselves, believing in all of the myths they have been forced to eat.

The internet is breaking down the total control over the flow of information that the ruling elite now maintains........that scares them.

At some point in the future, the masses will wake up...........what will happen then? The status quo will finally change.....hopefully.

So, please understand that the USA can influence.......but those at the top of other countries decide whether or not to follow. It is not just the USA.

End of diatribe.

[flying]

The USA are a democratic country. Actually it's a great model in action. When you see the excess of the Bush administration and the way a democratic process corrected these excess, democracy is definitively the way to go.

Did I miss something?

I mean I agree 100% excess of Bush yes

But who corrected it when?

[Plus]

I don't think demonstration is the proper way to express one's political opinion, election is

Before people take to the streets they try to express their opinions via media and civic organisations. It's when the govt refuses to listen they show up in numbers, progressively growing until the govt gives in or orders a crackdown.

PAD has openly denounced four second democracy that takes away your voice for four years, and all those opposing Thaksin base their objection on the same premise - the govt has to listen to the people everyday, elections are not an excuse to behave like a dictator.

To the OP - the proposal stops at point 1. There's no neutral ground for that non-existen charismatic leader. Doing things right means siding with yellows. I know it's unacceptable to many, but there's simply no other way - you have to do the right thing, regardless of the color. Sneaking through unnoticed will no work, you'll get labelled one way or another faster than you can open your mouth.

[LawnGnome]

The USA are a democratic country. Actually it's a great model in action. When you see the excess of the Bush administration and the way a democratic process corrected these excess, democracy is definitively the way to go.

Did I miss something?

I mean I agree 100% excess of Bush yes

But who corrected it when?

You are missing it. Its happening now. Try turning on another station, and turning off Fox News, and you'll get a better idea.

[dbrenn]

It is an American cultural trait, obnoxious or not, to observe things in foreign countries and make suggestions as to how to fix them. I don't shy away from that, I am proud to be American and I possess some typical American cultural traits.

In that spirit, here is my proposal on how Thailand can emerge from the current virtual civil war that currently shows no signs of improving anytime soon.

1. A new charismatic leader must emerge. He must be wealthy and well known, be totally clean of corruption, totally divorced from any hint of alliance with the reds or the yellows. This idea is impossible without such a person and I don't know of anyone like that. However, assuming such a person exists, the plan continues.

2. A new party is created, called something like the Thai Peace, Justice, and Reunification Party. It would be a compromise party that gives and takes to all sides as fairly as possible.

This is not far fetched for Thailand. Thaksin's TRT was created in the Thaksin era.

3. The new parties political agenda as follows

-- Openly admit Thailand is in a virtual civil war and they are the way out

-- Openly divorce from Thaksin and the red movement, and ALSO the yellow movement

-- Reject the entire color coding system, no colors for this new party

-- Clearly label Thaksin a criminal

-- Clearly label certain yellow leaders also criminals

-- Promise to create a justice structure that would expose, investigate, and punish all political criminals, red and yellow. However, the promise would be that this is a political process only and jail terms will not be a consequence, only lifetime bans from holding political office. This kind of thing happens in other countries, for example South Africa after apartheid

-- Seek the old red base, North, Isaan, etc, that is willing to reject the old vioilence and Thaksin as well

-- Seek the yellow Bangkok and southern democrat base, on the basis that Abhisit is too politically compromised to be able to deliver real peace and reunification

-- Adopt populist economic policies, some similar to Thaksin (Abhisit has tried this as well). For example, more activism for poor people's health care, education, and small business development

-- Adopt strong pro-democratic policies, promise to end press censorship

-- Favor an activist anti-corruption effort to radically reform the Thai election process so that elections can no longer be bought

Nice idea, but when you start using words like 'openly' and 'clearly' in the same sentences as Thai politics, it all starts to look like wishful thinking.

[Pierrot]

The internet is breaking down the total control over the flow of information that the ruling elite now maintains........that scares them.

At some point in the future, the masses will wake up...........what will happen then? The status quo will finally change.....hopefully.

It's not only the internet. Back to Thailand, in the "old" time, the sons and daughters of rich traders used to join Bangkok top universities where they were integrated in the "society". Nowadays it doesn't work this way anymore, first they are too many and second they don't even join Thailand universities, they study in England, USA, Australia ... and when they come back they have great expectation but little understanding of (and honestly little time for) the "Thai way".

Actually, I talked to a number of PAD supporters and that's what scare them the most. Thailand is changing. They can't cope with it.

[Plus]

Nowadays it doesn't work this way anymore, first they are too many and second they don't even join Thailand universities, they study in England, USA, Australia ... and when they come back they have great expectation but little understanding of (and honestly little time for) the "Thai way".

Actually, I talked to a number of PAD supporters and that's what scare them the most. Thailand is changing.

During Songkran riots I read an interview with some red woman who set up roadblock at Ding Daeng, she had a PhD from a western university. Yes, that's scary - half wits without knowledge of either East or West trying to start a revolution in the name of a crook and blow away all those who disagree.

Thaksin has a Phd from the US - not a yota of respect for human rights or democratic ideals, and he wanted to shape Thailand it his own vision. Yes, these guys who got education by simply paying for it are scary.