Solar Is Da Way To Go!

[brahmburgers]

I secured my property 10 years ago (non-title, beautiful 200 meter tall limestone cliffs and views to die for...), At that time I put in a water well and underground piping. However, I got sidelined with projects on other properties, and was low on money, so it's not until the past couple months that I've been able to get focused on continuing improvements there.

Got a top-notch DC water pump (Lorentz) and solar panels up on a 6 meter steel tower - so now have running water for the 1st time in 10 years. The set-up needs no batteries, as the panels power the pump directly. I can drink the water out of any faucet, as it comes from deep well, with no farm animals, septic, or chemi spraying anywhere near its watershed. Though I could easily put a float switch in the tank to turn off the pump when full, I choose to instead allow the pump to pump all the time the sun shines. No problem thus far with recovery rate. There's an overflow on the holding tank, which fills a cold tub nestled in the rocks, under large trees. The 11 rai is secluded enough, I could walk end to end, up and down in the nud_e, and no one would notice.

oh, the two PV panels are each 22 volts, wired in series, they yield 44. I don't know the amps (something to figure out later).

Anyhow, pardon my crowing a bit, but just wanted to share. Anyone reading this, who happens to venture up to Chiang Rai area, is welcome to give me a hollar. Oh, and I'll be sure to put on my trousers for the occasion.

Edited May 9, 2009 by brahmburgers

[tmd5855]

Well done, with solar energy available up to 10hours a day depending on how you have placed them. it is the way to go. Pressurised water sytem and wram water. What more do you want?

[473geo]

I would like a cost.....panels...and tower please...

many thanks.

[brahmburgers]

I would like a cost.....panels...and tower please...

many thanks.

the panels were about $260 each (my memory is a bit fuzzy on those numbers).

the tower was built from scratch with no electric on hand - all the pieces had to be hauled by hand about 150 meters up a steep hill. Has four legs (angle iron), each leg with 3 pre-drilled holes - done off site. It wound up being an elongated triangle - when viewed from the side - with a hinge. Its horizontal pieces are comprised of four lengths of 3/4" galvy pipe, bolted in place using a unique method. It had to be raised all at once, on a steep hillside (four people). the feet were cemented in place. Worked out well.

The panels got fitted with upside down U-shaped brackets which fit over the uppermost galvy horizontal pipe. The adjustments lower down on the panels were taken from parts of music stands (two for each panel), which were crafted to work perfectly for the job.

The DC pump put me back about us$1,300. Was bought via a small company in Laos, as there didn't seem to be any Thai supplier for it. I'm normally a cheapskate, but chose to go top quality for the pump, because I want it running whenever the sun shines - for as many years as possible. It's rated to go up high (60 meters?) and up to 70 lbs. pressure - though my property has such height, that I had to lower my holding tank by 5 meters because there wasn't quite enough juice to get the water pumped up to the original water tank site. I may add another PV panel, which should do what was originally planned.

I had useful advice from a fellow yank in Chiang Mai - who has hands on experience installing solar in the Pacific Islands.

[473geo]

Excellent information.......many, many thanks.....Have been wondering if it is possible to airiate a small fish pond with a simple solar set up. I have not started anything as yet but your information is invaluable.

I acquired some small solar lamps...very cheap (£5 in UK)....and they were greeted with a little amusement from my Thai family.....I got them to amuse the kids...and educate a little.....

I did enjoy a recent electrical storm black out lately, when they provided a soft glow in the house while everybody rushed around lighting candles

[bryanjackson]

So, you could do a swimming pool with the overflow....have you thought about that??

By the way, how deep is your well?

[Beardog]

Nice work! It sounds like it was worth the wait. And you were smart going the extra yard on the expensive good stuff nothing like having to pay for something twice or wait for parts to get it fixed.

Sounds like a very beefy setup!

Thanks for the good wishes on my vacation coming up!!!!!!!

Hopefully figs will be on the way! Nothing like working on the computer & having your gal serve you some fresh Papaya from the garden!

Barry

[tim armstrong]

I secured my property 10 years ago (non-title, beautiful 200 meter tall limestone cliffs and views to die for...), At that time I put in a water well and underground piping. However, I got sidelined with projects on other properties, and was low on money, so it's not until the past couple months that I've been able to get focused on continuing improvements there.

Got a top-notch DC water pump (Lorentz) and solar panels up on a 6 meter steel tower - so now have running water for the 1st time in 10 years. The set-up needs no batteries, as the panels power the pump directly. I can drink the water out of any faucet, as it comes from deep well, with no farm animals, septic, or chemi spraying anywhere near its watershed. Though I could easily put a float switch in the tank to turn off the pump when full, I choose to instead allow the pump to pump all the time the sun shines. No problem thus far with recovery rate. There's an overflow on the holding tank, which fills a cold tub nestled in the rocks, under large trees. The 11 rai is secluded enough, I could walk end to end, up and down in the nud_e, and no one would notice.

oh, the two PV panels are each 22 volts, wired in series, they yield 44. I don't know the amps (something to figure out later).

Anyhow, pardon my crowing a bit, but just wanted to share. Anyone reading this, who happens to venture up to Chiang Rai area, is welcome to give me a hollar. Oh, and I'll be sure to put on my trousers for the occasion.

Brahmburgers= You have made my day. Its great to hear an innovative good news story. I will visit when next I'm up there. Regards

[Penkoprod]

I secured my property 10 years ago (non-title, beautiful 200 meter tall limestone cliffs and views to die for...), At that time I put in a water well and underground piping. However, I got sidelined with projects on other properties, and was low on money, so it's not until the past couple months that I've been able to get focused on continuing improvements there.

Got a top-notch DC water pump (Lorentz) and solar panels up on a 6 meter steel tower - so now have running water for the 1st time in 10 years. The set-up needs no batteries, as the panels power the pump directly. I can drink the water out of any faucet, as it comes from deep well, with no farm animals, septic, or chemi spraying anywhere near its watershed. Though I could easily put a float switch in the tank to turn off the pump when full, I choose to instead allow the pump to pump all the time the sun shines. No problem thus far with recovery rate. There's an overflow on the holding tank, which fills a cold tub nestled in the rocks, under large trees. The 11 rai is secluded enough, I could walk end to end, up and down in the nud_e, and no one would notice.

oh, the two PV panels are each 22 volts, wired in series, they yield 44. I don't know the amps (something to figure out later).

Anyhow, pardon my crowing a bit, but just wanted to share. Anyone reading this, who happens to venture up to Chiang Rai area, is welcome to give me a hollar. Oh, and I'll be sure to put on my trousers for the occasion.

Brahmburgers= You have made my day. Its great to hear an innovative good news story. I will visit when next I'm up there. Regards

You got any pics of the installation?

NOT, however of your good self (with or without trousers )

Penkoprod

[mellow1]

My wife told me we should be doing this. Think I will listen to her. Show us your set-up please. Panels are pricey thought .

[Maizefarmer]

I secured my property 10 years ago (non-title, beautiful 200 meter tall limestone cliffs and views to die for...), At that time I put in a water well and underground piping. However, I got sidelined with projects on other properties, and was low on money, so it's not until the past couple months that I've been able to get focused on continuing improvements there.

Got a top-notch DC water pump (Lorentz) and solar panels up on a 6 meter steel tower - so now have running water for the 1st time in 10 years. The set-up needs no batteries, as the panels power the pump directly. I can drink the water out of any faucet, as it comes from deep well, with no farm animals, septic, or chemi spraying anywhere near its watershed. Though I could easily put a float switch in the tank to turn off the pump when full, I choose to instead allow the pump to pump all the time the sun shines. No problem thus far with recovery rate. There's an overflow on the holding tank, which fills a cold tub nestled in the rocks, under large trees. The 11 rai is secluded enough, I could walk end to end, up and down in the nud_e, and no one would notice.

oh, the two PV panels are each 22 volts, wired in series, they yield 44. I don't know the amps (something to figure out later).

Anyhow, pardon my crowing a bit, but just wanted to share. Anyone reading this, who happens to venture up to Chiang Rai area, is welcome to give me a hollar. Oh, and I'll be sure to put on my trousers for the occasion.

A few photos (?) - always good to hear that someone has got their solar system up and runing.

Amperage is real important - you could have a 1000volts, but if the amperage was low it wouldn't pump a drop of water.

Panels are usualy rated by wattage (watts) - what is the wattage? - it should be marked on the panels somewhere, failing that, what are the dimensions of each panel?

Amperage is: wattage divided by voltage (e.g. 220watts divided by 22 volts = 10Amps)

If the panels are wired in series (as you have done), the wattage and/or amperage you have will be: sum of each panels' (wattage or amperage) added to give a total, then divided by the number of panels (to give watts and/or amps).

the same as panel .... and if in parrellel, the

[mellow1]

^ so keep going, good info, and whats the best way? Series or parallel ?

[Maizefarmer]

It makes no diff at all - comes down to the power required versus the panel type avalible.

The power is the wattage - which comprises volts x amps.

As it happens, the 22volts he has from each panel is pretty much a standard panel voltage output. The pump sounds like it needed around 44volts to run - so 2 are connetced up in series, which as happens gave him the required amperage (he doesn't say but lets assume each panel was capable of 10 amps).

That power enables him to pump x water from y depth.

What would happen now if he needed to pump x water from 2 x y depth? - what would have to be changed or increased?

It would more than likely be the amperage i.e. the pump would need more current, in much the same way as a car would use more fuel to pull a load 2 x heavier of a given distance.

For the car to do that, you could:

- put in a bigger engine (increase the voltage)

- retune it to allow more fuel to be burnt (increase the amperage)

As a rule increaseing the amperage is better - which in the OP's case would mean another 2 panels connected in series together, then connected to the exsisting circuit in parellel - which would keep the voltage the same, but provide teice as much current.

The OP could change the pump (as you could change the engine in the car) - but that would probably mean having to change the panels as well as adding more panels (just as a bigger engine usualy means a bigger tank to cover the same distance or carry suffiecent fuel to cater for the additional power output)

So which is better?

It depends on what part of the requirment/equation is been changed i.e. is more water from the same depth required, or the same water from a greater depth, or more pressure from the same depth but at the same flow rate - when that is defined, then it is possible to etsablish the best way foward.

In any event: what never changes is:

- the need to connect panels in series to get the voltage the pump is rated for

- then add panels in parrellel to get the Amperage the pump is rated for

When both those requirements are met the pump will be able to pump its rated volume at its rated pressure. To get the pump to pump more pressure from a greater depth, it is the amperage that will increase - the voltage is the fixed part of the equation which doesn;t change.

... and now we start moving into pump curves, efficency percentages, conversion rates, flow and friction rates ... blah blah, blah blah.. could write all day and still wouldn;t cover the subject.

[mellow1]

Thanks for the info Maizefarmer, will have to read up on that.

[slapout]

Get a basic electronics primer used by armed forces around the world for their radar enlisted personal schools to answer voltage, watts, etc, ohms law will be explained. The pumps, friction curves, horsepower, volume, converting down hole gas to fluid measurements etc are answered via graphs, charts and info from companies who have been in the business longer than most of us has been taking up space on this planet Halliburton/Dow Schlumberger, Weatherford are 3 who publish engineering handbooks for answering hydraulic questions, plus other topics you would probably never think of.

[MrWiggle]

Any clues on how to pump water for filtration in a small tank 4m long x 80cm wide and 1m deep by any means other than electric and a enviro friendly way ?

I have not as yet seen a system for solar that is cost efficient. Wind is not suitable as need it to pump 24hrs, solar can do this with battery backup I think.

Any advice, no matter how miniscule welcome.

[Maizefarmer]

Any clues on how to pump water for filtration in a small tank 4m long x 80cm wide and 1m deep by any means other than electric and a enviro friendly way ?

I have not as yet seen a system for solar that is cost efficient. Wind is not suitable as need it to pump 24hrs, solar can do this with battery backup I think.

Any advice, no matter how miniscule welcome.

..... thats always been the problem with solar - the capital outlay for the hardware is so much that its seldom viable from an economics perspective when spread over the life of the panel.

Whats the flow rate and pressure of the system you are talking about?

[MrWiggle]

No idea....its a tank above ground, 4m long, 80cm wide and 1m deep....2 of these side by side. I want to pump from the bottom end to the other and and let gravity and flow feed it to the filtration.

[Maizefarmer]

What I really mean't to say was from what depth are you lifting the water supply i.e. is this water coming up from an aquafier underground or are you taking water from the mains supply.

Putting that aside, the question then is: how many times per day do you wish to circulate the water through the filter system? The Power required here is not much however you look at it as your pressure differenace can never be more than 1/10 of a bar. It will come down to volume - how many times a day do you want the water to circulate.

If the circulating pump was say 100watts, and the solar panel was say 250watts, then the power used during the day would be a little less than half the power avalible from the panel - the balance could be stored in a battery and used to keep the pump running through the night.

100watts can move a huge amount of water - off the top of my head at the sorts of differential pressures we are talking about here (ie.. tank to tank) 100watts could move between 4000 - 6000 litres per hour - yes, I mean per hour not per day!. 1watt = 1litre = 1minute

If its a bio - filter system circulation rate will be related to the biological load on the filter (i.e. bio-load and water flow will need to balance out if the filter is going to survive and the water is going to be clean).

Equilibrium will need to be established.

[sorensen]

Do you have a few pictures of the project and the view?

[MrWiggle]

No pics, only in my head and a drawing for the guys to build it.

I only need to circulate the water, not lift it from anywhere as we already have a pump and tank for that, the tank can gravity feed also when required.

So what I want is to circulate the water all day and night, this is required for the fish I want to grow in it, so it will be taking the water from one end of the tank 4 meters away and lifting it to about 1.5m at the other end to feed into the tank, this also creates the aeration required round the clock.

This is not a commercial deal, just for family, friends and some priviliged workers. So it does not warrant any great technical design or headache.... the good old 'KISS' theory sounds best.

[Maizefarmer]

... a few large Eheim aqurium water pumps.

[mellow1]

... a few large Eheim aqurium water pumps.

Or a small centrifugal pump.

[mellow1]

Stopped at a place selling solar panels today. This place is on the outskirts of Buriram. Drove past it, and it had 3 solar panels set up which operated a water pump. Turned around, stopped, and took a look. The pump itself was in a large barrel, so I don't know what kind it was, but it was pushing up a good flow. Anyways, I went inside and asked the price of one panel. The woman looked at me straight face and all, then told me one panel was 20,500Baht. I asked again to make sure that I had understood correctly. Sure enough, I got the price right, song moon ha. Could this be the special Farang price? As you might guess I did not make a fast draw for my wallet, instead I headed straight for the car.

[Maizefarmer]

Actually, that doesn't sound to bad - thats about right - which gives you an idea just what they cost. They are not cheap, and then on top of the panel you need the wiring, the swithces, the inverter and batteries if you are going to be storing power or using it in the house.

Of course its all down to panel wattage, but to give you an idea of costings, a typical 200 - 220watt panel with associated bits 'n pieces to get it up and running in the UK (200 - 220watt is up at the top of panel sizes/panel power outputs) will set you back between 700 - 1000 Pounds Sterling.

Solar power is not cheap, and thats the problem with it.

As for buying a solar panel in Thailand, the other problem you have is that you get solar panels and you get solar panels - some are good and some are crap, and chances are that unless you turn it over and see BP or Kyocera or one of the other big names on the panel, you may well be buying some poor quality Chinese or Tiawanese import. good panel will still be producing around 85% of its full power potential after 20 - 25years. I poor quality panel will be down to 85% within 5 years and by 20 will be down to around 50%.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[mellow1]

The price tag sure takes the charm out of it. I had brahmburger's figure of $260 in my head, 20,000Baht a piece kind of shocked me.

[C-sip-degree]

What I really mean't to say was from what depth are you lifting the water supply i.e. is this water coming up from an aquafier underground or are you taking water from the mains supply.

Putting that aside, the question then is: how many times per day do you wish to circulate the water through the filter system? The Power required here is not much however you look at it as your pressure differenace can never be more than 1/10 of a bar. It will come down to volume - how many times a day do you want the water to circulate.

If the circulating pump was say 100watts, and the solar panel was say 250watts, then the power used during the day would be a little less than half the power avalible from the panel - the balance could be stored in a battery and used to keep the pump running through the night.

100watts can move a huge amount of water - off the top of my head at the sorts of differential pressures we are talking about here (ie.. tank to tank) 100watts could move between 4000 - 6000 litres per hour - yes, I mean per hour not per day!. 1watt = 1litre = 1minute

Hi Maizefarmer,

100watts can shift 4000 to 6000 litres per hour, are you sure on this?.

What is the brand of pump here I need to change up as my shurflo can only achive around 400LPH on a real sunny day.

Cheers

C-sip

[Maizefarmer]

40degrees - yes, absoluely certain - cast iron deed sure - here some figures for you:

Eheim (aqarium pumps)

Model

1046 79gph Power consumption: 5watts

1048 158gph Power Consumption: 10watts

1250 317gph Power Consumption: 28watts

1260 635gph Power Consumption: 65watts

1262 900gph Power Consumption: 80watts

... Shurflo pumps - good sturdy pumps, but built for different pump profiles: they are compromise designs, meaning they are engineered with rpm and impeller dimensions for set head (pressure) profiles as opposed to aquarium type pumps - which are engineered and designed with impeller shapes/sizes, and rpms for volume (as opposed to head).

[C-sip-degree]

Thanks Maizefarmer,

Pulling a handbrake turn, will have a look into this brand.

Cheers

C-sip

[MrWiggle]

I got a reply from a solar company listed here for a pump $1800 and $500 per 90watt panel...2 required, so thats close enough to $3k or around 90/100k baht.

Thats a lot of months of electric power to fork pout up front. Rough guess at 10 years, if it was 5 years worth I would consider it.