Condo Fines For Late Payment Of Maintenance

[konfuzed]

Hiya,

I've recently been a bit behind on my payments for maintenance. I know that under the Condominium Act as it was recently updated allows for people to get fined, but who decides whether or not to issue a fine?

Is it up to the condo committee? or is it law that you have to be fined?

Who can I appeal to? straight to the committee?

the way that the english version of the condo act is written, it seems that you are fined by law and there is no leeway.

Many thanks.

Konfuzed - as ever

[john b good]

I do not know whether a penalty payment is in the condo act however all condominiums should have a set of rules or regulations.

I know of some where the "rules" state 10% penalty for late payment, compounding.

Whether the penalty is imposed might depend on the condo managers disposition, whether you a buddy of his (if an enemy you will almost certainly be hit)

What you really should do is get a copy of your condo rules (in English)

I won't bore you or any one else with the stories of the scams and corruption which exists in condo management in the realm.

[dave111223]

In our condo the a fee percentage is automatically applied to late payments.

It was 10% (per month) interest.

But apparently there is new law this year which say that condos can charge a maximum of 10% to 15% (i forget exact number) per year. So the monthly fee is down to around .8%-1.5% per month...

In our building there is no way to negotiate or bypass this fee, if your payments late, you pay the interest, or it goes against your property as a debt, and property cannot be sold until the debt is paid.

Edited May 11, 2009 by dave111223

[beano2274]

In my old place in Nonthaburi, it was 10%.

Some people there did not have the money to pay the rent for a month, so they were charged 50baht per day interest. After 15 days the Owner would cancel your keycard.

[mark5335]

It would be up to the Committee and the JP Manager to decide to impose the fines. At my condo AGM earlier this year, about 5% of the owners were already 2 months late in paying the annual common charges. A reminder to pay was given during the meeting as well as some info on the consquences of non-payment. This was interest at 15% I think, and then after 6 months, the water supply would be cut-off.

[briley]

Late fees - fines or whatever should be outlined in the regulations as registered at the Land registry.

Maximum charge for overdue accounts is set by the 4th Condo act at 12% up to 6 months and 20 % over six months and can NOT be compounded. We are advised that compound interest is not legal under Thai law. I am not sure if that is under Thai condo law or general Thai law.

The management can turn off utilities, refuse access to facilities and even to the building for owners who are overdue. Again it is in the new law and should by now be in the Condo's regulations.

PS by not compounded we can not charge interest on the interest, but can charge 20% each year on the outstanding amount.

Edited May 11, 2009 by briley

[hhgz]

"Who can I appeal to?"

The Juristic person is the legal building representative, and that is the person to whom you should address your appeal. If you've read the condo law, you'll can calculate the penalty and, as another posted noted, you could pay up to a 20% penalty. The penalty is based on the length of time that the fees have been unpaid.

[konfuzed]

Thanks all... At least its only 20% per annum.

And at least i know its appealable. Thanks

Not So Konfuzed Anymore...

[pkrv]

Thanks all... At least its only 20% per annum.

And at least i know its appealable. Thanks

Not So Konfuzed Anymore...

Sorry That is not the end - Water and Electricity will get cut off if this goes on.

[konfuzed]

paid the overdue amounts, now just got to haggle in relation to the fine...

spoke to a lawyer, and his take on it was that only if the condo's own regulations specify it will the condo be able to charge the surcharge due to the fact that the Thai version actually says MAY.

He also said that if the condo regulations had recently changed, then they could only use the new rate since the new condo regulations came into effect.

[dave111223]

Not to seem harsh; but maybe instead of putting your time and money into a lawyer you should just pay your maintenance fee.

Sorry it just but it kind of annoys me, we have many people who don't keep up with their services fees in our building, and it's the reason the quality of the building is deteriorating.

Why is it you feel that you should be able to appeal the fees, or be above them? If everyone in the building did the same thing it would turn into a crap hole real fast.

[jbaldwin]

I have to say that I agree with dave111223.

OK you might have found a legal loophole which allows you to avoid your obligations but would you like to live in your Condo if all the co-owners behaved in the way in which you have.

Late payment penalties are there for a reason - too many condos have been unable to carry out necessary maintenance while they waited to be paid

[hhgz]

"And at least i know its appealable."

You misunderstood my post. The Juristic person is the person to whom you could appeal, but there is no official appeal process. In my opinion, your appeal will be unsuccessful and, as other posters have commented, you should pay you fees and get on with your life.

[konfuzed]

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

[thaiwanderer]

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat

[konfuzed]

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat

Go to hel_l!

I started a thread about perhaps just having a bad year.... Glad you have had such a great year!

I must say, its a case of if you don't have anything to say - then don't bother

<deleted> to it - like i said i've paid the maintenance and to the other numptys who have complained about places not looking right... thats you're problem fix your own place and I've paid the other requests that have come in for upgrading of facilities and trust me there have been a few over the past two years... it was getting run down. Now it looks a lot better, no question. Furthermore - I contributed to that!

Besides - what's the point in having somewhere to come to ask for help and advice if all you get in return is crap.

many thanks to Briley, John B Good, Dave111223, Beano2274, Mark5335 and the others who actually assisted - i posted the other stuff back because I thought it might be of use to someone else that is getting shafted by their condo for something or other.

to anybody else who comes across this and has a similar problem - PM me and i'll tell you what i was told, and you'll save yourself all this crap.

[Abrak]

Thanks all... At least its only 20% per annum.

And at least i know its appealable. Thanks

Not So Konfuzed Anymore...

Konfuzed,

I think you should take the comment that you can appeal to the J.P. in good faith as well as the comment you wont get far.

As far as I understand the legal position, the fine so far as it is stated in the rules and regulations, is up to 20% per annum. You can appeal against this fine to the J.P. but the J.P. has extremely little leeway to absolve you of this fine even if he perhaps believes it is unfair. To the extent he absolves you of the fine you should realize, that under the new Act, as I read it, he can be personally liable for say the loss of interest by the other co-owners.

I hope you can see that on that basis he is extremely unlikely to not accept full payment of charges under the R&R whether he believes your case is fair or not. You should also realize that him letting you off any fines will also open him up to some 'can of worms' for other co-owners who wish not to pay fines for non-payment (without due reason) but believe precedent has been set by that J.P.'s assessment.

Finally the law is very clear that when a unit is sold, the J.P. must sign off on the unit as 'debt free'. Once again, if he does that and if the co-owners believe there is debt outstanding they can hold the J.P. personally liable for any debt outstanding to co-owners on that unit.

I am not a lawyer (although I have read the new Act), neither am I J.P. to any condominium, I am merely expressing how I see the law and the very limited options in the case you wish to be dissolved of penalty interest or not. All I can say is that I own a few condos and this is how I understand the new Law. If you object to the comment 'you shouldnt waste your money on a lawyer and get on and pay your obligations' while it may not be tactifully put, you should accept that, given what I believe is the underlying law, it may not be bad advice even if there is no decent explanation.

[thaiwanderer]

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat wink.gif

Go to hel_l!

I started a thread about perhaps just having a bad year.... Glad you have had such a great year!

I must say, its a case of if you don't have anything to say - then don't bother

it was a sarcastic comment - hence the wink

however your posts did not betray any empathy for your fellow co-owners in light of your failure to pay

you have now paid the maintenance (better late than never i suppose) and are wishing to haggle over the fine

I am sure you would now be the first in the queue to excuse one of your fellow co-owners who might have had a bad year also - regardless of the agreements you all entered into upon purchasing at the condominium - or are collective obligations only flexible when they apply to you?

i hope next year is better for you and you can fulfill your obligations

[dave111223]

Just out of interest, how much are the actual late penalties you are being asked to pay?

Looking back on the thread we don't really have this information, so maybe are too quick to judge konfuzed; maybe he is being asked to pay an extortionate amount.

Can you clarify a few details:

- How many months did you miss payment?

- How much interest (fine) are being asked to pay?

Edited May 15, 2009 by dave111223

[pkrv]

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat wink.gif

Go to hel_l!

I started a thread about perhaps just having a bad year.... Glad you have had such a great year!

I must say, its a case of if you don't have anything to say - then don't bother

it was a sarcastic comment - hence the wink

however your posts did not betray any empathy for your fellow co-owners in light of your failure to pay

you have now paid the maintenance (better late than never i suppose) and are wishing to haggle over the fine

I am sure you would now be the first in the queue to excuse one of your fellow co-owners who might have had a bad year also - regardless of the agreements you all entered into upon purchasing at the condominium - or are collective obligations only flexible when they apply to you?

i hope next year is better for you and you can fulfill your obligations

You are out of interest deadly, but please do not take us all Farangs as so abusive.

[thaiwanderer]

You are out of interest deadly, but please do not take us all Farangs as so abusive.

oh i never prejudge (.......except when i lapse!)

i will take that as a compliment (please don't correct me if i am wrong)

[thaiwanderer]

Just out of interest, how much are the actual late penalties you are being asked to pay?

Looking back on the thread we don't really have this information, so maybe are too quick to judge konfuzed; maybe he is being asked to pay an extortionate amount.

Can you clarify a few details:

- How many months did you miss payment?

- How much interest (fine) are being asked to pay?

bump - as i too would be interested and may soften my stance with advice and humility

[hhgz]

"maybe he is being asked to pay an extortionate amount."

The OP didn't mention that he was asked for an exorbitant amount. Using the condo act, and the guidance from the Juristic office, he can see how the fine was calculated. It's none of our business.

[backsoon]

Thanks all... At least its only 20% per annum.

And at least i know its appealable. Thanks

Not So Konfuzed Anymore...

Konfuzed,

I think you should take the comment that you can appeal to the J.P. in good faith as well as the comment you wont get far.

As far as I understand the legal position, the fine so far as it is stated in the rules and regulations, is up to 20% per annum. You can appeal against this fine to the J.P. but the J.P. has extremely little leeway to absolve you of this fine even if he perhaps believes it is unfair. To the extent he absolves you of the fine you should realize, that under the new Act, as I read it, he can be personally liable for say the loss of interest by the other co-owners.

I hope you can see that on that basis he is extremely unlikely to not accept full payment of charges under the R&R whether he believes your case is fair or not. You should also realize that him letting you off any fines will also open him up to some 'can of worms' for other co-owners who wish not to pay fines for non-payment (without due reason) but believe precedent has been set by that J.P.'s assessment.

Finally the law is very clear that when a unit is sold, the J.P. must sign off on the unit as 'debt free'. Once again, if he does that and if the co-owners believe there is debt outstanding they can hold the J.P. personally liable for any debt outstanding to co-owners on that unit.

I am not a lawyer (although I have read the new Act), neither am I J.P. to any condominium, I am merely expressing how I see the law and the very limited options in the case you wish to be dissolved of penalty interest or not. All I can say is that I own a few condos and this is how I understand the new Law. If you object to the comment 'you shouldnt waste your money on a lawyer and get on and pay your obligations' while it may not be tactifully put, you should accept that, given what I believe is the underlying law, it may not be bad advice even if there is no decent explanation.

Hi, everybody. The question of fine or no fine, pay or not pay, liable or not liable, etc. depends on who/what you are. In my condo the company which has developed the building has not paid maintenance fees on unsold units.for over 12 years by now. JP is their creature and no question of fines or interest arise when the unit is sold. So, there...

[pkrv]

Hi, everybody. The question of fine or no fine, pay or not pay, liable or not liable, etc. depends on who/what you are. In my condo the company which has developed the building has not paid maintenance fees on unsold units.for over 12 years by now. JP is their creature and no question of fines or interest arise when the unit is sold. So, there...

Now that is an interesting one - I have not seen that one brought up before. From a very quick scan of my own contract I don't see this listed as an obligation. only Co-owners are mentioned.

For me I don't think this is relevant (at all) but does this come up as a contractual issue in the condominium contract?

And BTW thaiwanderer, it was a compliment.

Edited May 18, 2009 by pkrv

[hhgz]

" In my condo the company which has developed the building has not paid maintenance fees on unsold units.for over 12 years by now."

The company is in violation of the new condo act, and the juristic person should get this resolved.

[pkrv]

" In my condo the company which has developed the building has not paid maintenance fees on unsold units.for over 12 years by now."

The company is in violation of the new condo act, and the juristic person should get this resolved.

Hi hhgz - I am no longer so directly focused on these issues as I bought a few years ago. Sorry can you point to a website, or post direct text. I know from the past that you are pretty shit hot on this stuff.

[hhgz]

As I remember, you bought a very nice place, and we're all waiting for an invitation to the house warming ; )

By website, do you mean something with an English translation of the latest condo law? Someone posted a link in these forums, and I pulled it down from there. Too, several months before the law came into effect, the condo management in my building held a meeting for everyone, and they went through the law, section by section. They compared the old law to the new, and how the specific section would affect each owner. One more thing I remember, there was an article in either the Post or Nation mentioning that, since the new law was enacted and forced developers to pay maintenance costs on unsold units - including late fees, the developers were more willing to negotiate on the condo price.

If you can't find what you need, SMS me your email address, and I'll send you what I have.

Cheers!

[pkrv]

As I remember, you bought a very nice place, and we're all waiting for an invitation to the house warming ; )

By website, do you mean something with an English translation of the latest condo law? Someone posted a link in these forums, and I pulled it down from there. Too, several months before the law came into effect, the condo management in my building held a meeting for everyone, and they went through the law, section by section. They compared the old law to the new, and how the specific section would affect each owner. One more thing I remember, there was an article in either the Post or Nation mentioning that, since the new law was enacted and forced developers to pay maintenance costs on unsold units - including late fees, the developers were more willing to negotiate on the condo price.

If you can't find what you need, SMS me your email address, and I'll send you what I have.

Cheers!

I guess it is courteous to say OK! please PM.

[ripley]

When you sign the contract papers to purchase your condo, you are giving your signed word that you will pay the stated maintenance fees. Many jPs are willing to assist you with a payment schedule should you run into difficulties.

The only time a question mark occurs is if the maintenance fees are altered in any way. In this case you are wise to examine how the alteration came about and whether it was done in a legal manner according to Condo Law.