Thaksin To Be Indicted For Lese Majeste

[sriracha john]

^You all need to put away your delicious fantasies of Thaksin standing in the dock in a Thai court, and being taken to jail in shackles.

Of all the many plausible and implausible ways this chess game could unfold and pan out, that scenario isn't one

First we heard that he would never be charged with a crime... then it happened.

Then we heard that he would never be convicted of a crime... then it happened.

With a whole bunch of other "it'll never happens" and "that's impossibles" before, during, and after the above... and yet, they happened...

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

We shall see what happens with regards to any prison time... when it happens.

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

CIB Commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Thangai Prassajaksattru said a committee in charge of monitoring news that damage reputation of the Royal Family

This in the Nation's article just strikes me as really bizarre. As far as can be summised :

CIB have a committee to monitor news

You forgot the rest of what was said in the news in your own quote, which, when considered, completely removes your "bizarre" label you assign it.

If the CIB can decipher foreign news why don't they have the ability to translate into Thai?

AFAIK, they are probably assigned by law or chapter to perform the translation in all big legal cases in Thailand. I recall several other cases (eg. CTX scanners, banker Saxena, Jakrapob's LM) involving translation and they all seemed to be conducted by Foreign Ministry.

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[Journalist]

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

Yes, First Thai Prime Minister to serve out a full term and then be re-elected with another landslide.

(Cue the demented screeches of 'but he paid for votes EEEEEK.'.......if he hadn't paid those people would have still voted for him anyway. There was no better option on the ballot paper back then. No Abhisit. No PAD Party.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Journalist

[sriracha john]

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

Yes, First Thai Prime Minister to serve out a full term and then be re-elected with another landslide.

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[luvU2much500THB]

Anyone convicted of LM have routinely been pardoned.....will Thaksin be treated any differently?

Yes. Since he is a threat to the monachy (Thaksin idea of republic), he will be put in jail forever with no possibility of pardon or release.

never ever.

[dbrenn]

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

Yes, First Thai Prime Minister to serve out a full term and then be re-elected with another landslide.

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

[sriracha john]

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

Yes, First Thai Prime Minister to serve out a full term and then be re-elected with another landslide.

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

Actually it was the Supreme Court and the Constitution Court that were involved for those 3 Firsts.

Not the junta nor the government....

but as the mods have already reminded us all to stay on topic, we should limit this thread to the LM case he faces now, and not stray even further off with this discussion.

[rixalex]

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

So are you really saying that the electorate should have the power to decide who gets convicted, who gets sentenced, and which parties get dissolved?

[rixalex]

At Red rallies there is already evidence of a swing towards being a pro democracy movement, rather than simply a pro thaksin movement.

Nonsense. The reds still hero-worship the man and you can guarantee if they got power, the first thing they would do is to whitewash all the charges and convictions against him.

The only reason they are publicly showing less support for him is because they are aware that he is no longer that popular amongst other Thais outside of their movement.

As for them being pro-democracy - they would have never supported Thaksin if that were their belief.

[Plus]

When PAD asked for royal intervention back in 2006, they did it according to the Consitution, Article 7. There was a debate whether it was applicable or not but at least they were trying to act consitutionally, I don't see any comparison with Thaksin who first instigated a revolution and then "urged" the palace to stop the ensuiing violence.

There are several steps involved here - the committee monitoring the news makes a decision first (that's where we are now, at the begining), then the committee passes its decision to the police. Police needs an official translation from the Foreign Ministry, not the committee itself. Then the police makes its own decision and passes the case along to the courts.

Also even English speakers here disagree on the words Thaksin used in that interview, surely the police needs an official translation because they are not going to debate Englsih meanings of urge vs demand in Thai courts.

[jayboy]

When PAD asked for royal intervention back in 2006, they did it according to the Consitution, Article 7. There was a debate whether it was applicable or not but at least they were trying to act consitutionally, I don't see any comparison with Thaksin who first instigated a revolution and then "urged" the palace to stop the ensuiing violence.

There are several steps involved here - the committee monitoring the news makes a decision first (that's where we are now, at the begining), then the committee passes its decision to the police. Police needs an official translation from the Foreign Ministry, not the committee itself. Then the police makes its own decision and passes the case along to the courts.

Also even English speakers here disagree on the words Thaksin used in that interview, surely the police needs an official translation because they are not going to debate Englsih meanings of urge vs demand in Thai courts.

Yeah, yeah...I'm not sure the bureaucratic rigmarole is of much interest.The point is the whole process is a collossal waste of time, and almost certainly highly politicised.If there's evidence of Thaksin -unsuccessfully - instigating revolution, then he should be prosecuted (as should those who - successfully - authorised, and participated in illegal criminal coups).Oh no wait, the latter already pardoned themselves.

[Journalist]

^^ Plus, the quote, (i.e a direct quote, not some reporter paraphrasing/changing it as per the Bangkok Post summary), is in black and white in the interview. If I was allowed to put up a link to it one could see the word for oneself. There's no room to squabble about it.

So are you really saying that the electorate should have the power to decide who gets convicted, who gets sentenced, and which parties get dissolved?

Indirectly, yes.

The electorate vote in the lawmakers

Those lawmakers create laws

The laws are then enacted and interpreted by the courts

The dislocation is that even though the electorate should be allowed to force change through their choices, in Thailand their ability to change anything has been removed by the <<Rule #15>> Courts and the entrenched elites.

And by elites I include both the incumbent side and the Thaksin side, fundamentally they are both power grubbing elites.

The loser, as always, is Joe Peasant.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Journalist

[Thai at Heart]

When PAD asked for royal intervention back in 2006, they did it according to the Consitution, Article 7. There was a debate whether it was applicable or not but at least they were trying to act consitutionally, I don't see any comparison with Thaksin who first instigated a revolution and then "urged" the palace to stop the ensuiing violence.

There are several steps involved here - the committee monitoring the news makes a decision first (that's where we are now, at the begining), then the committee passes its decision to the police. Police needs an official translation from the Foreign Ministry, not the committee itself. Then the police makes its own decision and passes the case along to the courts.

Also even English speakers here disagree on the words Thaksin used in that interview, surely the police needs an official translation because they are not going to debate Englsih meanings of urge vs demand in Thai courts.

Which begs the most obvious question, which translation are the committee using to make their interpretation?

Does this mean the committee waves it's hands in the air and says "We think think this is lese majeste!" and the police are arbiters or the committee?

There is obvious potential for politicisation of this process on the basis that the foreign ministry translation can colour the meaning and the police are probably not qualified to judge the language anyway. It would be a hel_l of a lot better if the official translation was done by independent linguistics experts and then passed to a committee of lawyers and linguistics experts before it got to the police.

Does Thailand have a Department of Public Prosecutions which judges whether a case has merit before it gets to the police issuing charges?

[Plus]

Does this mean the committee waves it's hands in the air and says "We think think this is lese majeste!" and the police are arbiters or the committee?

...

There is obvious potential for politicisation

Yes and yes, and that's why setting this multilayered structure - committee, police, courts is designed to prevent politisation. There are also public prosecutors but they do not have to approve ALL cases going to courts, I don't know if they are going to be involved with this one.

The dislocation is that even though the electorate should be allowed to force change through their choices, in Thailand their ability to change anything has been removed by the <<Rule #15>> Courts and the entrenched elites.

No it hasn't. The parliament can still re-write the laws, courts will have to follow. People can directly propose the laws themselves, it has been made easier under 2007 consitution.

>>>>

In the Nation the issue barely gets two paragraphs.

[Mario2008]

Off topic post deleted. There are enough discussions about Thaksin in general already. This thread is about the LM charges only!

[sabaijai]

When PAD asked for royal intervention back in 2006, they did it according to the Consitution, Article 7. There was a debate whether it was applicable or not but at least they were trying to act consitutionally, I don't see any comparison with Thaksin who first instigated a revolution and then "urged" the palace to stop the ensuiing violence.

There are several steps involved here - the committee monitoring the news makes a decision first (that's where we are now, at the begining), then the committee passes its decision to the police. Police needs an official translation from the Foreign Ministry, not the committee itself. Then the police makes its own decision and passes the case along to the courts.

Also even English speakers here disagree on the words Thaksin used in that interview, surely the police needs an official translation because they are not going to debate Englsih meanings of urge vs demand in Thai courts.

There is also the issue of whether or not, even if Col Thaksin used the English word 'demand,' whether he understood its full import.

[wrecker]

Nothing to do with lese majesty as is so often the case. these laws are absurd and are only used to silence (political) opponents. Today they are used against people like Thaksin and Gilles Ji Ungpakorn. Tomorrow they are used against Abhisit, Chamlong, Chuan and Sondhi.

It is just a matter of who is wielding power. As police and prosecutors do not have any honor at all they will listen to whoever is strongest on a particular day.

With the lese majesty laws Thailand is on par with other repressive countries in the Middle East, Burma, Libya and so on. In those countries the same kind of tactics are used to silence the opposition.

I am actually wondering why Anupong did not came up with a swimmer, his friend Than Shwe seems to be carved out of the same wood but is more creative.

[Geraldb3]

I agree that Thaksin played a very bad poker hand at Songkran. His facial expressions were those of a man who was seeing his empire fail in front of his eyes.

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

It is inappropriate.

I do not know why anyone would want to anyway.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Geraldb3

[mc2]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

[christcourt]

Mmmmm. This looks like an attempt to divert attention from the embarrassing flop that was the summit, and the then postponed summit.

To be honest its a very weak charge. I doubt many people will be fooled by it.

Well, I'll tell you one thing.

Only red shirt zomboids will believe the kind of twisted retelling of history you just tried. How convenient you failed to mention the attempt at violent revolution openly led by CONVICTED CRIMINAL FUGITIVE THAKSIN in Bangkok over Songkran. Nice try, actually, not a nice try.

Well well this charge sound like a piece from the film "Spy Hard". He's out of the country as well, so how the Police led government going to make the charges stick god knows.

And yes the Government is weak at the moment and is fighting for its political life in these's turbulant times with Recession, the Red Brigade, lost of Tourism, High Baht rate etc etc.

The Red brigade want him [TS] back so to try and make him loose face is paramount for the government and it will do anything to quiet the Red's down.

On another note [off topic] it was the Violent Yellow Idiots that have fueled the Red's into their action so I don't blame them either. I hope for one Thailand sorts its self out as there's going to be even more despair.

[wayfarer108]

He's set an astounding record of "Firsts" already...

Yes, First Thai Prime Minister to serve out a full term and then be re-elected with another landslide.

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

The courts decided, and the government was instaled by democratically elected MPs. Were their backroom deals? Of course, the same as politics everywhere.

[wayfarer108]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

No to LM.

But the avatars of mc2 and Koo82, combined with their constant flow of pro-Thaksin propaganda. seem to me to be in violation of the rule on political lobbying in the Forum Rules:

Please be informed that ThaiVisa is an apolitical discussion forum, meaning that we take an unbiased position in regard to political matters in Thailand. As such, ThaiVisa will not permit itself to become a sounding platform for members to lobby other members to effect changes to or suggestions on political issues or Thai government decrees. This does not mean that members cannot voice a political opinion as ThaiVisa is first and foremost a discussion forum, but lobbying for any kind of action is forbidden.

Lucky for you the mods here seem flexible

[Oberkommando]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

No to LM.

But the avatars of mc2 and Koo82, combined with their constant flow of pro-Thaksin propaganda. seem to me to be in violation of the rule on political lobbying in the Forum Rules:

Please be informed that ThaiVisa is an apolitical discussion forum, meaning that we take an unbiased position in regard to political matters in Thailand. As such, ThaiVisa will not permit itself to become a sounding platform for members to lobby other members to effect changes to or suggestions on political issues or Thai government decrees. This does not mean that members cannot voice a political opinion as ThaiVisa is first and foremost a discussion forum, but lobbying for any kind of action is forbidden.

Lucky for you the mods here seem flexible

If that is the case then SJ, Plus, amongst others are equally, if not more guilty of political lobbying.

[mc2]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

No to LM.

But the avatars of mc2 and Koo82, combined with their constant flow of pro-Thaksin propaganda. seem to me to be in violation of the rule on political lobbying in the Forum Rules:

Please be informed that ThaiVisa is an apolitical discussion forum, meaning that we take an unbiased position in regard to political matters in Thailand. As such, ThaiVisa will not permit itself to become a sounding platform for members to lobby other members to effect changes to or suggestions on political issues or Thai government decrees. This does not mean that members cannot voice a political opinion as ThaiVisa is first and foremost a discussion forum, but lobbying for any kind of action is forbidden.

Lucky for you the mods here seem flexible

If that is the case then SJ, Plus, amongst others are equally, if not more guilty of political lobbying.

I have about 1000 posts, SJ has 25000 posts, so approx 25 times more guilty, plus about 8 times more guilty.

[sriracha john]

My avatar is a very apolitical Ferris wheel.

[sriracha john]

I have about 1000 posts, SJ has 25000 posts, so approx 25 times more guilty, plus about 8 times more guilty.

Nice math work you got there...

[robenroute]

The charge does not get much more serious for a Thai.

Tell this to Sulak Sriwalaksa, he's been charged 18 times and counting, still his opinions are all over Thai media, he is one of the most respected social critics here.

The name is Sulak Sivaraksa สุลักษณ์ ศิวรักษ์ 18 times? I count only 3, maybe 4, and never convicted.

If one would want to write the name in western script ik would be: Sulak Siwarak

(just to be pedantic )

[dbrenn]

Nothing to do with lese majesty as is so often the case. these laws are absurd and are only used to silence (political) opponents. Today they are used against people like Thaksin and Gilles Ji Ungpakorn. Tomorrow they are used against Abhisit, Chamlong, Chuan and Sondhi.

It is just a matter of who is wielding power. As police and prosecutors do not have any honor at all they will listen to whoever is strongest on a particular day.

With the lese majesty laws Thailand is on par with other repressive countries in the Middle East, Burma, Libya and so on. In those countries the same kind of tactics are used to silence the opposition.

I am actually wondering why Anupong did not came up with a swimmer, his friend Than Shwe seems to be carved out of the same wood but is more creative.

That's a good observation.

When in charge, LM and contempt of court are very convenient tools to shut up political opponents.

It's hard to pick up the paper these days without seeing another LM charge. Abhisit and his military handlers are coming out in their true colours. It's such a hypocrisy, given that the pretext for the coup was to combat repression and censorship.

[dbrenn]

If that is the case then SJ, Plus, amongst others are equally, if not more guilty of political lobbying.

Hiow true. It's only called political lobbying when the 'wrong' side does it. What an epitomy of the hypocrisy that prevails in Thailand today. It's only a crime when you do it!

[Thai at Heart]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

No to LM.

But the avatars of mc2 and Koo82, combined with their constant flow of pro-Thaksin propaganda. seem to me to be in violation of the rule on political lobbying in the Forum Rules:

Please be informed that ThaiVisa is an apolitical discussion forum, meaning that we take an unbiased position in regard to political matters in Thailand. As such, ThaiVisa will not permit itself to become a sounding platform for members to lobby other members to effect changes to or suggestions on political issues or Thai government decrees. This does not mean that members cannot voice a political opinion as ThaiVisa is first and foremost a discussion forum, but lobbying for any kind of action is forbidden.

Lucky for you the mods here seem flexible

Why would you want to stop anyone expressing their opinions? That this is an issue for the moderators and there is absolutely no reason to draw attention to one person over another. The discussion here which can some times get heated, hurts absolutely no one, and encourages people to think and learn. Some think more and learn more than others, but who cares?

Therefore, I think you should employ a Thai lawyer to obtain a legal interpretation on the definition of "lobbying". It may take them a while to go through all the posts. Decision would probably be pending in 2015, so to all those accused of lobbying, be happy, fortunately here it would appear freedom of speech remains on most issues. I would suggest you take the rough with the smooth rather than deciding to snitch and try to get people silenced.

For christsakes, it isn't as though people writing on here have any effect on what is going to happen in Thailand tomorrow.