Kissing Banned

[kreon]

just saw this news clip from indonesia

More, and Heavier - Revisions of the Criminal Code have finally been completed. Some of the revisions conceived by the formulating team could trigger controversy among legal experts. Under one provision, public kissing has been declared a criminal act. This means that law enforcement officers will have the right to arrest any person found guilty of `lip kissing' in public. This crime carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. Even foreign nationals in Indonesia will be subject to these provisions. `Living together outside of matrimony' : The penalty for this act is also more severe under the revised bill. The maximum penalty has now been set at two years in prison or a Rp30 million fine. And law enforcement officials are authorized to immediately arrest any person found guilty of committing this act.

thailand next, after all thai's don't kiss in public, only farangs!

au revoir

[Jai Dee]

This means that law enforcement officers will have the right to arrest any person found guilty of `lip kissing' in public.

Hmmm... what about Thai "sniff kissing"?

But you're right kreon... you'd never see it in public here.

[kreon]

just saw this news clip from indonesia

More, and Heavier - Revisions of the Criminal Code have finally been completed. Some of the revisions conceived by the formulating team could trigger controversy among legal experts. Under one provision, public kissing has been declared a criminal act. This means that law enforcement officers will have the right to arrest any person found guilty of `lip kissing' in public. This crime carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. Even foreign nationals in Indonesia will be subject to these provisions.  `Living together outside of matrimony' : The penalty for this act is also more severe under the revised bill. The maximum penalty has now been set at two years in prison or a Rp30 million fine. And law enforcement officials are authorized to immediately arrest any person found guilty of committing this act.

thailand next, after all thai's don't kiss in public, only farangs!

au revoir

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess a LOT of people just crossed Indonesia off their "Places to Visit' list.

Morons!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why, its a great place to visit, great people and fun

it's just shows, that thailand is not alone with their stupid laws

au revoir

[chico]

`lip kissing' in public. maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

`Living together outside of matrimony' two years in prison or a Rp30 million fine.

sound slittle bit funny : 10 years for lip kissing, 2 years for living together without marriage

And law enforcement officials are authorized to immediately arrest any person found guilty of committing this act.

depends how one defines matrimony : legal act, or marriage by buddha?

in the later, Thailand would have to tenfold (at least) their prisons, as in rural areas plenty of people are not legally married!!

[lampard10]

Yeah what next? Banning of blow-jobs along Pattaya Beach Road I suppose

[tuky]

Yeah what next?  Banning of blow-jobs along Pattaya Beach Road I suppose

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why not? they are banned in Singas, even inside your own apartment with your wife (that in itself is a contradiction i guess)!!!

[Ijustwannateach]

Wonder how they'll enforce the living together outside of matrimony rule- "oh, well, if any two people who are not married are living together.." but wait, what about extended family who are not married? What about gay couples- how will they distinguish them from roommates? What a silly rule.

"Steven"

[wamberal]

If you really analyse it, kissing is the most intimate thing two people can do, without actually having sex together. I am not talking about a peck on the cheek, I am talking about a full frontal, full body kiss. If this ban means that kids will learn that this kind of kiss actually means something important, then I am all for it.

[TizMe]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

[lampard10]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do Muslims have babies?

[TizMe]

Contemplating Susilo’s Navel Fixation

The Jakarta Post, December 22, 2004

Jakarta

By Meidyatama Suryodiningrat

Perversely speaking, it could just be a simple personal fetish on his part.

But by asking a senior Cabinet minister to convey concerns over the showing of navels on television, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is treading on the ever precarious trinity of sexuality, morality and politics.

With increasing regularity the issue of morality and public decency has protruded into the national debate.

After all the fuss over dangdut singer Inul Daratista’s gyrations, and the ulama’s furor over youthful lust in teen flicks, the president—after Friday prayers no less—took a moral stance and bellyached over the issue of navels on television.

Curiously it was not deep cleavage, the odd nipple or see-thru couture which worried him, but navels.

Even more incredulously, amidst starvation in Nabire, Papua, active terrorism, and an exhausting list of other life threatening issues, it should be an innocent bellybutton that attracts his attention.

People in the capital may well mock the president’s slur against naked navels, nevertheless his remarks signal a creeping conservatism within the political mainstream.

This is not a simple case of liberals versus conservatives. In reaction to the ‘anything goes’ post-Soeharto freedoms, the congregation of the ‘moral right’ has dilated to make religion a significant political force.

The vogue of puritanism even spurred legislators earlier this year to introduce a bill on so-called “Pornography”, threatening a one year jail sentence for public kissing and two years incarceration for private “sex parties”—a punishment more severe than those set down in the Criminal Code for instigating a riot.

As a nation of cultural enigmas, issues of morality will be the first test in the paradox of this new era.

Indonesia is caught in three worlds. One world embraces urban lifestyles where men groom to be metrosexuals, and women undergo retail therapy—shopping to make oneself feel happy. Where sex is a consumer good, and titillation is daily pastime.

They read books about oral sex, get bedroom tips from TV and watch local movies on homosexuality.

The second is a world clinging—or retreating—to conservative traditions. They include the organized worshipers in white, and the groupies of modern ulamas in turtle necks.

The third is the floating majority filled with those who can’t make up their minds. First world wannabes neglected by economic progress, or those pondering a morally austere life, being sick of the disparities and pervading depravity.

Ushered into power with the support of conservative elements, it is not surprising that Susilo has had to address these clash of values.

The question is whether the president can distinguish between an individual’s moral code and that which guides the government, and whether he believes governments should regulate personal morality, or intervene only when the rights of others are violated.

Religious conservatives know that a call for a religious state is a death knell at the polls. However, they understand that a nation disgusted with corruption and selfish rule can easily confuse the issue of good governance and moral righteousness. Unquestioned control over morality is an autocrat’s dream, since dissension can be conceived as being morally speciousness.

A government that can summarily define what is moral and immoral is tantamount to a religious state, by another name.

That is the delicate challenge Susilo faces in the coming years. To maintain the distinctiveness and cleavages of a nation which in affect is a salad bowl, not a melting pot.

Indonesian President Bellyaches about Exposed Belly Buttons

AFP, December 22, 2004

JAKARTA—Extremist violence and corruption are key problems facing Indonesia’s new President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono—but so, it seems, are women’s belly buttons.

For the second time in as many weeks, the president has spoken out against exposed navels, urging women in the world’s largest Muslim-populated country to cover up.

“Indonesian women, who are known for their courtesy, should refrain from exposing their midriffs or belly buttons, which now seems to be taken for granted,” Yudhoyono said at a function to mark Indonesia’s women’s day Wednesday.

“There are many ways to express beauty, as part of aesthetics, and to express freedom but not by showing things that lead to pornography,” he said.

Yudhoyono said the state could not dictate how people should dress but citizens were expected to respect the country’s moral values and courtesy.

Last week a cabinet minister quoted Yudhoyono as saying that he felt “disturbed and uneasy” to see television shows in which women exposed their navels.

Indonesian television is increasingly liberal in its programming. Kissing, formerly taboo, and skimpily dressed women are now common features in local soap operas, while pirated Western videos offer even racier viewing.

[TizMe]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

How do Muslims have babies?

Probably by bonking in the privacy of their home.

[Shola]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do Muslims have babies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By Mitosis

[cdnvic]

By what?

cv

[tuky]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do Muslims have babies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kissing can cause pregnancy is actually an old wives tale mate

[surin]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do Muslims have babies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kissing can cause pregnancy is actually an old wives tale mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank god for that....I thought I might have more kids somewhere!!!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

For us Western men (yes, even some of us gay, formerly straight men) it's difficult to see what can be so pornographic about a woman's belly button.

I asked a Thai foreign exchange student (17 years old) what his biggest culture shock was, in moving from northern Thailand to California:

"A man and a woman, kissing in public!"

[Shola]

By what? 

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cdnvic, obviously you wern't a fan of Science at school!

Mitosis, the process were one cell divides making a perfect copy of itself, therefore sex free reproduction

[kreon]

None of you seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Indonesia is a Muslem country.

It has the largest muslem population in the world.

I wouldn't have expected anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, but there are also a lot of christians, chinese etc

having lived there for 2 years i found it one of the most liberated places, especialy jakarta(from a farangs perspective)

i mean there is a disco/pub, right next to a muslim police station, that is open non-stop from friday 2pm till monday morning 10am

you just have to watch out during ceremonies like ramandan etc, so stay at home

as far as s€x goes, the muslim college girls are totally liberated, you just do it discretely, which you would do everywhere anyway

au revoir

[cdnvic]

Cdnvic, obviously you wern't a fan of Science at school!

I was but methods of asexual reproduction haven't been a priority for me since I've devoted much of my time since leaving school to pursuing the other kind.

cv

[chuchok]

Yeah what next?  Banning of blow-jobs along Pattaya Beach Road I suppose

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why not? they are banned in Singas, even inside your own apartment with your wife (that in itself is a contradiction i guess)!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought they were looking at repealing that bit of legislation.

when I was there in March last year, they were having a (mass)debate about it in parliment.

[marquess]

why not? they are banned in Singas, even inside your own apartment with your wife (that in itself is a contradiction i guess)!!!

Yeah, and who in there right mind would want to live in Singa as opposed to Thailand?

[mbkudu]

A little peck on the cheek should be ok, but mouth to mouth kissing in public should be banned. It is repulsive to watch. Issue citations or jail if necessary. That &lt;deleted&gt; should be left to the bedroom.

[Pie Boy]

Lets think about this chaps,how many of you guys enjoy a full on pettin' session with your missus in public? Personaly I greet my missus with a kiss on the lips on many occasions i.e when she leaves for work,when we meet in town after work,during a night out etc.My wife and I enjoy many romantic moments ,a healthy love life and we are definatly not prudes.However neither of us would feel comfortable with a mouth to mouth session in public.

Dear Rubisher, what has this to do with TV,Magazines etc? Missin' the point somewhat me thinks.

[mbkudu]

F***n Morons.

That's rich old man ! Love it! I just don't like seeing two people swallowing spit in public parks or other open places. Seeing two travelers with backpacks (Hey, I didn't say 'backpacker') on the Sky Train sucking on each other is disrespectful to all other passengers on the train. Do you see many Thais doing it?

No, because it is Thailand. Keep it back west with you, Romeo .

*quote edited(cv)*

Edited February 6, 2005 by cdnvic

[kreon]

A little peck on the cheek should be ok, but mouth to mouth kissing in public should be banned. It is repulsive to watch. Issue citations or jail if necessary. That &lt;deleted&gt; should be left to the bedroom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why, its normal in our country to kiss on the cheeks, its normal to kiss your girlfriend/wife on the mouth as a form of greeting

i sat behind a young couple on a flight from hkg, who could not stop kissing for 2 hours, well ok that's a bit over the top

btw i am sometimes guity of kissing my girlfriends upon arrival in clubs, bars, restaurant etc., but then i'm a farang after all ain't i

make love and peace, not war, au revoir

[mbkudu]

A little peck on the cheek should be ok, but mouth to mouth kissing in public should be banned. It is repulsive to watch. Issue citations or jail if necessary. That &lt;deleted&gt; should be left to the bedroom.

why, its normal in our country to kiss on the cheeks, its normal to kiss your girlfriend/wife on the mouth as a form of greeting

i sat behind a young couple on a flight from hkg, who could not stop kissing for 2 hours, well ok that's a bit over the top

btw i am sometimes guity of kissing my girlfriends upon arrival in clubs, bars, restaurant etc., but then i'm a farang after all ain't i

make love and peace, not war, au revoir

When in Rome......and you know.

[mbkudu]

btw i am sometimes guity of kissing my girlfriends upon arrival in clubs, bars, restaurant etc., but then i'm a farang after all ain't i

I've heard this song before: 'Farang are 'exempted' from making a$$es of themselves in Thailand because they are Farang and they don't know better?'

It may be true or may not; it is irrelevant. Can't they see they might be doing something not quite acceptable to society just by looking around at Thai behaviour? For the odd couple seeing Thailand and Asia for that matter, for the first time, they should get the hint after awile. If they don't, well they can always rely on the 'foreign exemption A.H.' stamping in the minds of locals. Luckily Thais are live and let live. I don't know, maybe I'm just an old stick at heart. I am certainly not bothered by it at a red level on the DJ Pat hatred meter; no sir.

Edited February 6, 2005 by mbkudu

[mbkudu]

F***n Morons.

That's rich old man ! Love it! I just don't like seeing two people swallowing spit in public parks or other open places. Seeing two travelers with backpacks (Hey, I didn't say 'backpacker') on the Sky Train sucking on each other is disrespectful to all other passengers on the train. Do you see many Thais doing it?

No, because it is Thailand. Keep it back west with you, Romeo .

*quote edited(cv)*

Scuse me boy, There are too many things to mention here that I don't like to 'see' in public. And many things I guess that other people don't like to see in public... so what should we do... try to get all those things banned and punished by prison sentences? Jesus! If I had my way, there would be no fat people allowed in public, no ugly people, no men with piercing/rings, no scruffy sods, no No Smoking signs, no Yashmaks, no skull caps, no Crusifixes or religious symbols.... I could type all night.

Live and let Live... Get a Life!

Ravisher, I will be the first to admit that the banning thing is quite silly and I might have felt a bit at a witch hunt. However, I stand by my feeling that when we are in another country we should abide by rules. Of course there is no rule against kissing, but the public act of kissing in Thailand is frowned upon, so I think as guests we should at least try to refrain from doing it.

There are many people in this world who think that everyhting around the world is the same, "Oh, I was in Nokhontaiwan and it's the same there. It's the same everywhere!" BS. It's not the same everywhere. How can cultural mores be the same eveywhere. Then when the argument turns for the worse for the same twit,

usually without fail he says something like, "What do you mean; we're all individuals, everything is different, we're all different." Isn't it better to fit in with life, than try to make life fit you? As a world traveler learning a foreign language or two never hurt either.

Edited February 6, 2005 by mbkudu

[mbkudu]

Ravisher, I will be the first to admit that the banning thing is quite silly and I might have felt a bit at a witch hunt. However, I stand by my feeling that when we are in another country we should abide by rules. Of course there is no rule against kissing, but the public act of kissing in Thailand is frowned upon, so I think as guests we should at least try to refrain from doing it.

There are many people in this world who think that everyhting around the world is the same, "Oh, I was in Nokhontaiwan and it's the same there. It's the same everywhere!" BS. It's not the same everywhere. How can cultural mores be the same eveywhere. Then when the argument turns for the worse for the same twit,

usually without fail he says something like, "What do you mean; we're all individuals, everything is different, we're all different." Isn't it better to fit in with life, than try to make life fit you? As a world traveler learning a foreign language or two never hurt either.

mbkudu,

Yes, I understand where you are coming from... Personally I would never kiss my wife (Thai) in public in Thailand, or here in Greece for that matter, because I respect her wishes and the customs in Thailand. My wife will often kiss me in the car while I am driving, but not in public so to speak.

On the other hand, I think that all nations should also respect their visitors customs and ways of life. After all, they are 'guests'. My wife understands that farangs sometimes kiss in public in Thailand and is not offened by it, she thinks it rather funny/strange. She feels the same way when she sees Greek people wearing practically nothing in public during the summer.

My point is, to make such things a criminal offence and punishable by prison is WAY over the top! Especially if it is a visiting foreign couple that is kissing.

I lived in Turkey for three years... a Muslim country. These days you can see Turkish people kissing in public. The non-kissing in public and forced wearing of the 'cover' is Muslim extremism. And we all know how dangerous that is.

Hence my aversion.

Well good. I'm glad we weren't at each other's throats too much longer.