Pad Agrees To Set Up Party

[jasreeve18]

So we are to simply give up on freedom as speech as a concept on the basis that no one is interested or that "they" aren't capable of understanding?

"They" was read shirts.

In their case they completely surrendered their braincells to propaganda (and Dtv is NOT a news channel, no matter what they call themselves).

I'm not singling out reds, I'm just making an example. 30 years ago thousands of people were comandeered to Sanam Luang to lynch some students. Six years ago people believed killing people in the name of drug war was ok, while "englightened" US was absolutely convinced that Saddam was behind 9/11 and had weapons of mass destruction.

The power of media to brainwash people into believing practically any nonsense is undeniable, it's behind ANY bloody conflict.

I can't even consider seriously "Let them do whatever they want, it's all "freedom of speech" argument. It's deeply irresponsible.

Your loved ones in the army own the TV stations and threaten the newspapers here (and are behind the bloody conflicts too).

Plus, you're so boring and silly...

DTV is not a news station, but ASTV is???

You're so extremely irrational and polarized, you symbolize everything that's awful in Thai politics...

Oh God, I promised myself I wouldn't reply to your crap... be strong Jas18, be strong.

Whatever happened to that poster, jasreeve 17?

Oh yeah, that's right... he was banned.

No, I wasn't. I decided to take a break to avoid silly folk such as you. Please get you facts correct before spitting out your dummy at people that don't share your personnal viewpoints. Silly man, go to the back of the Q...

[sriracha john]

Your loved ones in the army own the TV stations and threaten the newspapers here (and are behind the bloody conflicts too).

Plus, you're so boring and silly...

DTV is not a news station, but ASTV is???

You're so extremely irrational and polarized, you symbolize everything that's awful in Thai politics...

Oh God, I promised myself I wouldn't reply to your crap... be strong Jas18, be strong.

Whatever happened to that poster, jasreeve 17?

Oh yeah, that's right... he was banned.

No, I wasn't.

That's strange because this profile page says otherwise...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/jasreeve17-m39032.html

It says:

jasreeve17

Banned

I decided to take a break to avoid silly folk such as you. Please get you facts correct before spitting out your dummy at people that don't share your personnal viewpoints. Silly man, go to the back of the Q...

and that jasreeve18 has only been a member for a few days, but is already lamenting specific posters and flaming away just like the old banned jasreeve17 used to do...

Like I said, when you reincarnate after this jasreeve18 banning, just try and be a bit more imaginative and not come back as

jasreeve19

Edited May 28, 2009 by sriracha john

[jasreeve18]

That's strange because this profile page says otherwise...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/jasreeve17-m39032.html

It says:

jasreeve17

Banned

I decided to take a break to avoid silly folk such as you. Please get you facts correct before spitting out your dummy at people that don't share your personnal viewpoints. Silly man, go to the back of the Q...

and that jasreeve18 has only been a member for a few days, but is already lamenting specific posters and flaming away just like the old banned jasreeve17 used to do...

Like I said, when you reincarnate after this jasreeve18 banning, just try and be a bit more imaginative and not come back as

jasreeve19

You think you're smart, but you're not, you're wrong... I was sick and tired of responding to fools like you, thus I asked one of the mods to cut me.

Instead of thinking you rule the place, speak to the mods, then go away. If you have nothing to comment on this topic then simply go away...

[ovenman]

I was sick and tired of responding to fools like you, thus I asked one of the mods to cut me.

As opposed to practicing some form of self-restraint?

[jasreeve18]

I was sick and tired of responding to fools like you, thus I asked one of the mods to cut me.

As opposed to practicing some form of self-restraint?

As is my choice...

Your addition to this thread is? You're welcome to pm me if you have something to say that's outside of the scope of this thread.

Edited May 28, 2009 by jasreeve18

[EndofDays]

Despite what the Nation may have said yesterday, PAD leaders and supporters are currently meeting to decide whether or not they will form a party. The meeting will continue tomorrow and it will take several days before a decision is reached. You can follow the debates live on ASTV if you wish.

Well, money will not be a problem to fund the "future" party with the "donatiions" of several Thaivisa members who declared openly their love to the PAD and posted (bragged) about their donations.

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Foreign investers should not be allowed to donate to Thai political parties and that goes for any country.

[EndofDays]

So we are to simply give up on freedom as speech as a concept on the basis that no one is interested or that "they" aren't capable of understanding?

"They" was read shirts.

In their case they completely surrendered their braincells to propaganda (and Dtv is NOT a news channel, no matter what they call themselves).

I'm not singling out reds, I'm just making an example. 30 years ago thousands of people were comandeered to Sanam Luang to lynch some students. Six years ago people believed killing people in the name of drug war was ok, while "englightened" US was absolutely convinced that Saddam was behind 9/11 and had weapons of mass destruction.

The power of media to brainwash people into believing practically any nonsense is undeniable, it's behind ANY bloody conflict.

I can't even consider seriously "Let them do whatever they want, it's all "freedom of speech" argument. It's deeply irresponsible.

Not once, did the Bush administration connect 9/11 to Iraq. Bush never said it, Cheney said it, not one person in the administration made that connection. My god, can't you people ever think for yourselves? Study history, not just watch it on CNN or read it in a magazine. The power of the media? You just got brainwashed, bub. Pathetic and sad.

[Plus]

Bush never said it, Cheney said it, not one person in the administration made that connection

End of sense?

>>>

Thai at heart,

In the run up to 2000 elections Thaksin bought ITV and fired a couple of dozen jounralists who disagreed with new editorial bend.

I suspect you thought of it as media intervention.

In 2008 Thaksin sets up a new TV station and you call it freedom of media.

Now go and try to say that red shirts and their leaders were fully responsible for Songkran mayhem on Dtv - you will be pulled off the air before you finish one sentence.

Media freedom my ass.

You confuse it with freedom to set up Pravda like propaganda outlets.

[Thai at Heart]

Bush never said it, Cheney said it, not one person in the administration made that connection

End of sense?

>>>

Thai at heart,

In the run up to 2000 elections Thaksin bought ITV and fired a couple of dozen jounralists who disagreed with new editorial bend.

I suspect you thought of it as media intervention.

In 2008 Thaksin sets up a new TV station and you call it freedom of media.

Now go and try to say that red shirts and their leaders were fully responsible for Songkran mayhem on Dtv - you will be pulled off the air before you finish one sentence.

Media freedom my ass.

You confuse it with freedom to set up Pravda like propaganda outlets.

Plus, you have a habit of selectively answering posts so that the gist gets lost. I stated earlier that Thaksin's meddling in the media was bad also.

The rules can be jigged in any way people want, but it would be logical to assume that politicians shouldn't own media outlets. There are thousands of broadcasting rules worldwide that prevent incitement to violence, racial hatred etc etc. However, since the army has had a small bit of history in intervening in politics in Thailand from time to time, it would probably be better if they didn't own TV stations either.

I simply would prefer it if the army and the government would butt out of the media and the government take the view that more and freer media is better for the country than less and more control.

[Plus]

I simply would prefer it if the army and the government would butt out of the media and the government take the view that more and freer media is better for the country than less and more control.

So you want to say that it's bad for the government to control the media but it's ok for any other megalomaniacs with agenda, assuming I understood your earlier sentence correctly?

I don't know if there isn't a need for more ASTV or DSTV like stations, but there is a place for them all and the more the merrier

So the answer to government propaganda is not to stop it but to create even more, wide spectrum of propaganda outlets?

I don't think I follow you.

[Thai at Heart]

I simply would prefer it if the army and the government would butt out of the media and the government take the view that more and freer media is better for the country than less and more control.

So you want to say that it's bad for the government to control the media but it's ok for any other megalomaniacs with agenda, assuming I understood your earlier sentence correctly?

I don't know if there isn't a need for more ASTV or DSTV like stations, but there is a place for them all and the more the merrier

So the answer to government propaganda is not to stop it but to create even more, wide spectrum of propaganda outlets?

I don't think I follow you.

Let the TV, radio and bloggers free. If you assume that people are so stupid to swallow lies for ever then you don't have a very high opinion of your fellow man. I take the view that you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. If as you mentioned you look at Hitler's propaganda, it was completely reliant on silencing every other source of information within the country. The way to disprove lies and propaganda is to allow the truth out.

Would you call a government sponsored hotline for whistleblowers on government corruption? What perpetuates all of the corruption, scandals and problems in any country? Secrecy.

Occasionally during the mess over the last couple of years, ASTV did have some very interesting debates attached to the pro-yellow rhetoric. I watched the red TV once; no where near as polished. Banning it will only serve for it to return with a larger viewership. If the whites, greens, pinks, blue or blacks want a TV or radio station, let them have it. Stimulate right wing, left wing, centre, capitalist, socialist debate and opinion rather than stifle it. You state the rural areas are misinformed about Thaksin's wrong doings. Give them access through any means possible, but having an army run station as the conveyor of the message doesn't cut it.

Stifling and controlling the media is in my opinion 180 degrees the wrong path to take, in terms of creating better and freer government in the short run and would benefit society in the long run. There are thousands of stories in this country which are manipulated by the powers that be to hide, confuse or buy time.

I am glad that people have been allowed to challenge the army's version of events during the last crackdown. It gave their stories a hel_l of a lot more credibility simply because they were challenged and possible evidence to the contrary provided. Some people may choose to believe that the army set it all up and hauled hundreds of bodies away. History would say it isn't impossible. The media spotlight brought upon the events gives credibility to the accounts.

Do I believe the army didn't shoot one single live round at the protesters. No. Do I believe it is possible there weren't deaths. Yes. Do I believe there were deaths that may have been covered up. Probably. Do I believe there was a massacre? No. Would my opinion be the same if the only source was an army run TV station? No. Am I delusional? You probably think so.

I see having as many free sources of information and allowing "them/we" to decide breeds a much better society than having a controlled, government or army dominated media. Politics and corruption aren't sexy stories, but the more light thrown on the dark dealings of politics and business is a healthy thing for society.

What brought Thaksin down? The media. What is the first thing an oppressive government gets control of to maintain it's power? The media. Or is the great firewall of China there for fun?

[Insight]

Have not seen this guy barring my access to a website for a long while now. Maybe I'm not surfing as much as I should be.

If anybody could specify a URL to a blog, political or otherwise, which has been blocked over the past 6 months I would be very interested.

Obviously the LM law is a bit of a bind, but the authorities seem less trigger happy as of late.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Insight

[Thai at Heart]

Have not seen this guy barring my access to a website for a long while now. Maybe I'm not surfing as much as I should be.

If anybody could specify a URL to a blog, political or otherwise, which has been blocked over the past 6 months I would be very interested.

Obviously the LM law is a bit of a bind, but the authorities seem less trigger happy as of late.

Maybe this is why.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1744...hip-plagues-net

Self censorship plagues net

By: PENCHAN CHAROENSUTHIPAN

Published: 28/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Fear of severe penalties for breaching security regulations have led to many internet-based public forums adopting a policy of self-censorship, a seminar was told yesterday.

More appropriate actions to regulate these websites would benefit people as "net power and email forwarding draws public participation in helping to decide some state policies", Ms Ubonrat said

Just one small example

[Insight]

Have not seen this guy barring my access to a website for a long while now. Maybe I'm not surfing as much as I should be.

If anybody could specify a URL to a blog, political or otherwise, which has been blocked over the past 6 months I would be very interested.

Obviously the LM law is a bit of a bind, but the authorities seem less trigger happy as of late.

Maybe this is why.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1744...hip-plagues-net

Self censorship plagues net

By: PENCHAN CHAROENSUTHIPAN

Published: 28/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Fear of severe penalties for breaching security regulations have led to many internet-based public forums adopting a policy of self-censorship, a seminar was told yesterday.

More appropriate actions to regulate these websites would benefit people as "net power and email forwarding draws public participation in helping to decide some state policies", Ms Ubonrat said

Just one small example

Hardly convincing, especially when comparing to censorship levels - say - 5 years ago.

[Thai at Heart]

Hardly convincing, especially when comparing to censorship levels - say - 5 years ago.

This isn't a Thaksin bad, others good discussion, just an observation that any government can either try to encourage or discourage discourse from all sides. The rules, monitoring and punishment is according to the report, leading to self censorship. So they became a little more subtle and got the ISP's and webboard owners to do it for them.

"National Security" doesn't just extend to Lese Majeste.

It's her statement not mine, and being a foreigner what would I know anyway?

[Insight]

Hardly convincing, especially when comparing to censorship levels - say - 5 years ago.

This isn't a Thaksin bad, others good discussion, just an observation that any government can either try to encourage or discourage discourse from all sides. The rules, monitoring and punishment is according to the report, leading to self censorship. So they became a little more subtle and got the ISP's and webboard owners to do it for them.

"National Security" doesn't just extend to Lese Majeste.

It's her statement not mine, and being a foreigner what would I know anyway?

I wasn't for a second insinuating it was. Surely if the government has enough confidence in website owners to decide what is appropriate or not, it's a country mile better than the government deciding for themselves?

There's a fair number of blogs online now which frequently challenge the status quo in Thailand. I have no concerns about reading them and I'm sure I'll be able to access them tomorrow. As of late, freedom of speech in Thailand is hardly a major issue.

[Plus]

Let the TV, radio and bloggers free.

Just what do you mean by "free"?

These days TV and other forms of media are set up with specific purpose of promoting a particular point of view. None of them have any editorial freedom whatsoever.

All the rest of your raving seems like a blast from the past - evil, controlling government vs freethinking people looking for channels to express themselves.

That world doesn't exist anymore and owners of "free" media are even bigger control freaks.

Just why would anyone wish this "free" media on anyone is beyond me.

If you assume that people are so stupid to swallow lies for ever then you don't have a very high opinion of your fellow man.

Assume?

Why do I have to assume what has been proven again and again and again, and each time someone paid with their lives for YOUR assumption that people could not be duped long enough to inflict serious harm on others.

[Thai at Heart]

Let the TV, radio and bloggers free.

Just what do you mean by "free"?

These days TV and other forms of media are set up with specific purpose of promoting a particular point of view. None of them have any editorial freedom whatsoever.

All the rest of your raving seems like a blast from the past - evil, controlling government vs freethinking people looking for channels to express themselves.

That world doesn't exist anymore and owners of "free" media are even bigger control freaks.

Just why would anyone wish this "free" media on anyone is beyond me.

If you assume that people are so stupid to swallow lies for ever then you don't have a very high opinion of your fellow man.

Assume?

Why do I have to assume what has been proven again and again and again, and each time someone paid with their lives for YOUR assumption that people could not be duped long enough to inflict serious harm on others.

If you believe all the people sold their lives on the basis of some media incited frenzy you are grossly underestimating the deep felt feelings that all sides have and you are dishonouring their sacrifice. Just because they wore a shirt of a colour you support or don't doesn't make their sacrifice any more or less important.

All of these people died in the various protests because they believed; be they red or yellow. You are sorely misunderstanding the level of peoples commitment to their causes by saying that they did it because a TV station told them to do it.

If you really believe that the feeling of enfranchisement felt by a section of society can be put back in the genies bottle you are way way behind the Democratic Party of Thailand who have openly admitted that they underestimated the level of conviction of the their supposed advisaries.

I firmly believe that when this situation calms down, one legacy that Abhisit can leave to the country is to remove all military control from the media. He has already astonishingly proposed amnesty, who knows with what he will leave the political establishment in terms or laws and regulations?