Pad Name New Party: Karn Muang Mai Or New Politics

[george]

PAD name new party: Karn Muang Mai or New Politics - source

BANGKOK: -- Core leaders of People's Alliance for Democracy movement agreed to name their new party,

"Karn Muang Mai" or "New Politics, an informed source said Tuesday.

Somsak Kosaisuk will be leader the party and Suriyasai Katasila be secretary general.

The name was decided during a meeting of 21 core leaders of PAD on Tuesday.

-- The Nation 2009-06-02

[kurtgruen]

PAD name new party: Karn Muang Mai or New Politics - source

BANGKOK: -- Core leaders of People's Alliance for Democracy movement agreed to name their new party,

"Karn Muang Mai" or "New Politics, an informed source said Tuesday.

Somsak Kosaisuk will be leader the party and Suriyasai Katasila be secretary general.

The name was decided during a meeting of 21 core leaders of PAD on Tuesday.

-- The Nation 2009-06-02

They have build up a good grassroots network around Thailand and might do well in the next election. They won't win, but might get enough seats, to hold the balance of power.

Personally, I prefer Khun Chamlong to all the other politicians. I'm not too crazy about the religious aspect, but I like the integrity he has shown in the past, when he was Governer of Bangkok.

[chrislarsson]

Anybody know what kind of policies this new politics will be translated into?

[hammered]

Anybody know what kind of policies this new politics will be translated into?

Policies. Wont be too many of those or at least they wont be central but be based more around a crusade to clean up the corrupt cesspool. A war on political parties and politicians. The PAD party is likely to mention things it wont do or agree with imho. It is more like a movement than a poltical party in the arena.

[george]

Former anti-government PAD activists set up political party

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's activist People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), which played a key role in driving three Thai governments from office in the past, officially established its own political party Tuesday, naming it the New Politics Party (NPSP), according to the movement’s leaders.

Somsak Kosaisuk, a top PAD core leader, told a press conference that initially his political party is to be named the New Politics Party, with a 21-member committee.

Mr. Somsak said he will head the party, and Suriyasai Katasila will be secretary-general, and retired vice admiral Pratheep Chuen-arom will be party spokesman.

He said the NPSP will register with the Election Commission on Thursday.

Initially, Mr. Somsak said he sees Thai politics changing with the party’s establishment as the “current old-style politics has damaged the country.”

Whether the NPSP would cooperate with other political parties is yet to be seen, but a common stance must be adopted, Mr. Somsak said, “to work for the country.”

High-profile leader Sondhi Limthongkul, earlier expected to lead the party, told journalists that he believed thousands of people would join the party. He said another party meeting will be held to elect the committee.

The new committee will be elected by registered members of the new entity, not the existing PAD stalwarts, Mr. Sondhi said.

-- TNA 2009-06-02

[jumnien]

A more precise translation would be "royalist military dictatorship", but that doesn't sound as catchy and hip as "new politics".

[cmsally]

Maybe they read Thai Visa and all their farang supporters trying to vigourously deny that New Politics had anything to do with PAD or was just mentioned in passing etc.

So now they have spelled it out for us so we don't interpret things incorrectly!

[jayboy]

Actually there is nothing new about PAD's political ideas.Perhaps a more suitable name would be Karn Muang Bolan.

One of the great lessons of history is that evil movements (I think it's fair to describe PAD's leadership in that way) often at the outset say exactly what they mean.Later they backtrack in the face of poltical realities and as they join the mainstream (if only to subvert it later).Think for example of Mein Kampf: a common reaction at the time was that Hitler didn't really mean that fascist stuff to be taken seriously.But he did... every word and when he had a chance he put it into practice.The graves of millions bear witness.

Now of course these PAD jokers are not in the same Premier League of wickedness.However one can see that the more outlandish elements of the so called new politics are now being downplayed.Even the PAD zealots on this forum are now very quiet.And let's face it unless one has one's head buried in the sand it's common knowledge that the movement has splintered and (I'm tiptoeing through the tulips now) lost some key elements of elite support.Nevertheless a disgusting political phenonomen like the PAD should not be underestimated (and I'm not talking about the decent if naive middle class people who gave support in reaction to the Thaksin outrages).Some wit said recently that PAD had no supporters these days other than urban Chinese ladies of a certain age.Well I don't know about that but don't forget there is an unpleasant undercurrent to this movement and all democrats should be passionately opposed to it.

As so often Chang Noi makes the case eloquently.

http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/padmeaning.htm

[Thai at Heart]

Actually there is nothing new about PAD's political ideas.Perhaps a more suitable name would be Karn Muang Bolan.

One of the great lessons of history is that evil movements (I think it's fair to describe PAD's leadership in that way) often at the outset say exactly what they mean.Later they backtrack in the face of poltical realities and as they join the mainstream (if only to subvert it later).Think for example of Mein Kampf: a common reaction at the time was that Hitler didn't really mean that fascist stuff to be taken seriously.But he did... every word and when he had a chance he put it into practice.The graves of millions bear witness.

Now of course these PAD jokers are not in the same Premier League of wickedness.However one can see that the more outlandish elements of the so called new politics are now being downplayed.Even the PAD zealots on this forum are now very quiet.And let's face it unless one has one's head buried in the sand it's common knowledge that the movement has splintered and (I'm tiptoeing through the tulips now) lost some key elements of elite support.Nevertheless a disgusting political phenonomen like the PAD should not be underestimated (and I'm not talking about the decent if naive middle class people who gave support in reaction to the Thaksin outrages).Some wit said recently that PAD had no supporters these days other than urban Chinese ladies of a certain age.Well I don't know about that but don't forget there is an unpleasant undercurrent to this movement and all democrats should be passionately opposed to it.

As so often Chang Noi makes the case eloquently.

http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/padmeaning.htm

Hear hear!!!!!!!

[tranquillize]

So a group sieges a number of airports, crippling the economy, then create a political party with barely any critical reception from the mainstream media. What a joke. This group is about as undemocratic as you get, their views remind me of 18th century European political ideologies.

[DP25]

They have build up a good grassroots network around Thailand and might do well in the next election. They won't win, but might get enough seats, to hold the balance of power.

The only thing they can hope to do is split the vote enough that a minority Thaksinist party is able to form a government.

[Journalist]

Why doesn't the party/movement have a democratic ballot to decide who their party leader should be?

Seems a bit off that one bloke should simply be appointed as the Boss.

[Plus]

Seems a bit off that one bloke should simply be appointed as the Boss.

"Suriyasai said the party's executive positions agreed yesterday were temporary and that a general meeting to select a new executive board would be held within 60 days after the Election Commission endorsed the party registration."

According to Sondhi:

"There will be no party owners to order who should be the party leader. The party's supporters will nominate candidates and vote who should be party leader"

The Nation

[Ricardo]

Elections by the members ?

Doesn't that make this new party considerably more-democratic than the PTP, where the very-important decision about who will lead the Opposition in Parliament, is currently delayed yet-again by wrangling between the MPs who don't support their chief political-adviser's choice ?

More lunch-boxes all round, chaps !

[Plus]

Elections by the members ?

Doesn't that make this new party considerably more-democratic than the PTP

Don't spoil the bash the PAD party.

It can't possibly be democratic because they are wicked evil monarchist ultra-nationalist fascist dictators.

[Seneque]

Probably long hours of brain storming and sleepless nights to finally end up with this ''Karn Muang Mai'' name ...

I just clicked on 'new politics' ... the folder was empty !

[hammered]

A read of Pleum's Bkk Post piece last week on the more communistic nature of the PAD policies is interesting (especially considering who wrote it!). A look at the history of say Somsak and a quick decko at the line up of some of their people reveals a lot of ex-CPT support, some would argue far more than the red shirts have. It is imho too simplistic to analyse it as a European style facist movement (a very surface analysis) when there are quite abviously some other agendas floating around which may not be as acceptable on the surface as the more traditional ones. Facism or what we label as facism is a lot more acceptable in Thailand where every party without exception is right wing than even quite mild leftish politcal ideas.

The deabtes among the Thai left over red and yellow are quite interesting especially the more open minded ones.

Anyway recommend Pleum's analysis (he spoke for and gave backing the red shirts by the way for those not aware). I dont have a link. Does anyone?

Edited to add link: http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...cs-of-socialism

Edited June 3, 2009 by hammered

[Ricardo]

Elections by the members ?

Doesn't that make this new party considerably more-democratic than the PTP

Don't spoil the bash the PAD party.

It can't possibly be democratic because they are wicked evil monarchist ultra-nationalist fascist dictators.

But what about their bad qualities ? Tee-hee.

Sorry, I haven't had my daily Truth-Today programming yet, no doubt they too will find the emergence of another democracy-supporting party, to be too too anti-democratic for words.

[Plus]

I dont have a link. Does anyone?

Couldn't find it the first time you mentioned it.

[DaleBlue]

Have you forgotten already?

PAD is not a political party.

They shut down the airports for the better of Thailand, not for themselves.

[hammered]

I dont have a link. Does anyone?

Couldn't find it the first time you mentioned it.

I just added it above.

[hammered]

Im not sure which thread to put this. Maybe it deserves one of its own, but a very interesting interview with Thitinan over on the Irrawady:

http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=15780

It covers a lot of the current general situation and even concludes with a bit of advice for Thaksin!

[Guest Reimar]

Somsak first leader of PAD party

A new political party to be launched by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will be called Karn Muang Mai or New Politics - and its first leader will not be Sondhi Limthongkul, as expected earlier.

Somsak Kosaisuk, another of the five PAD core leaders, will be the first party leader and PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila will be secretary-general, Somsak said yesterday after a two-hour meeting of the 21 co-founders.

Sondhi, however, did not rule out the possibility he would be voted party leader at a general meeting of the new party expected in two months.

"There will be no party owners to order who should be the party leader. The party's supporters will nominate candidates and vote who should be party leader," Sondhi said. He added that the PAD would unveil next week the result of a survey of 20,000 people on the qualities they wanted in a party leader.

Sondhi said he believed he was qualified to become a party leader and that he did not think being a bankrupt in the past would prevent him from taking the job. He explained he was not a "fraudulent bankrupt", prohibited by law from taking a political party executive post.

"Legally speaking, there are no problems; but personally speaking, I have no answer now. But I can insist that I am not afraid of attacks even after the recent assault against me," Sondhi said.

"There are many options to becoming party leader. If people want, I may accept the post without contesting an election. I can be a torch-bearer in the campaign for new politics. When the party has MPs in Parliament and the party's mechanism can work independently, I will resign and return to the PAD, without accepting any political appointment," he said.

Sondhi said the PAD would be above the new political party, which would serve as a tool for the PAD's mass politics. The PAD would oversee politicians from the New Politics Party, he added.

Somsak said yesterday's meeting of co-founders voted for him to become the party leader and six other people to be party executives.

Apart from Somsak and Suriyasai, no other key leaders of the PAD are on the party's executive board.

Somsak said the new party's main objectives would be to encourage people with clean records and a history of campaigning against corruption to become lawmakers and to allow more public participation in governing the country.

Suriyasai said the party's executive positions agreed yesterday were temporary and that a general meeting to select a new executive board would be held within 60 days after the Election Commission endorsed the party registration.

The co-founders would register a new political party with the EC tomorrow, when its logo would also be unveiled, according to Suriyasai. He said the party's colour scheme would be yellow and green, with yellow referring to constitutional monarchy and green referring to politics that are clean, or "pollution-free".

In his earlier interview with The Nation, Suriyasai admitted to Sondhi's weak points that could make him vulnerable to attack from the party's critics. Those weak points were identified as Sondhi's hot temper in reaction to criticism and his perceived connection with ASTV, the pro-PAD satellite-based television.

Suriyasai said that although Sondhi no longer had business links with ASTV, he would have to prove there was no conflict of interest between them.

-- The Nation Published on June 3, 2009

[Guest Reimar]

Off topic post deleted.

European politics have nothing to do with Thai politics and for sure nothing with a new build political party in Thailand.

Please keep on topic.

[SpoliaOpima]

A read of Pleum's Bkk Post piece last week on the more communistic nature of the PAD policies is interesting (especially considering who wrote it!). A look at the history of say Somsak and a quick decko at the line up of some of their people reveals a lot of ex-CPT support, some would argue far more than the red shirts have. It is imho too simplistic to analyse it as a European style facist movement (a very surface analysis) when there are quite abviously some other agendas floating around which may not be as acceptable on the surface as the more traditional ones. Facism or what we label as facism is a lot more acceptable in Thailand where every party without exception is right wing than even quite mild leftish politcal ideas.

The deabtes among the Thai left over red and yellow are quite interesting especially the more open minded ones.

Anyway recommend Pleum's analysis (he spoke for and gave backing the red shirts by the way for those not aware). I dont have a link. Does anyone?

Edited to add link: http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...cs-of-socialism

Yes, the PAD is far less nationalistic - the most basic attribute of fascism - than the TRT/redshirts. In fact the alliance is made up of more than a hundred NGOs, many led by Thais who have dedicated their entire careers to humanitarian issues in Thailand, as well as every major trade union in the country. They are supported by some of our major academics as well, eg Dr Prawase.

The whole royalist association is blown out of proportion, that's just part of the PR although there may or may not support from the monarchy (as would be their prerogative throughout history), something about which it isn't appropriate to conjecture on this forum or anywhere else in Thailand, publicly.

As for Chang Noi: just another western democracy fetishist. The PAD believe, and I agree with them, that majoritarian democracy won't work in the context of Thai society with its deeprooted patronage system and prevalent corruption in business and politics. The idea is to try and elect representation from all sectors of society, from workers, farmers, students, academics, professionals and so on, in the upper house,but leave the lower house elected at large. Many countries have similar approaches to the national legislature, including Belgium and Jordan. Such a bicameral assembly is considered especially effective in societies where there are deep divisions, as in Belgium between the French and the Flemish, in Jordan between rural and urban Muslims, and perhaps in Thailand as well with the split between the North/Northeast and the Bangkok/Central/South regions.

Even critics of the PAD should admit it's much better seeing them enter party politics than taking over airports

[Plus]

Thanks for Nong Pluem's link.

Interesting piece.

Note how he bashes PAD for what they COULD become in the future. Typical right wing scaremongering about communism, blast from the past.

What is interesting is that Pluem wants to run on PTP ballot next time. Flies in the face of our resident leftists as he is strictly pro-business, big bosses know the best, stop the spead of socialism type.

[jayboy]

A read of Pleum's Bkk Post piece last week on the more communistic nature of the PAD policies is interesting (especially considering who wrote it!). A look at the history of say Somsak and a quick decko at the line up of some of their people reveals a lot of ex-CPT support, some would argue far more than the red shirts have. It is imho too simplistic to analyse it as a European style facist movement (a very surface analysis) when there are quite abviously some other agendas floating around which may not be as acceptable on the surface as the more traditional ones. Facism or what we label as facism is a lot more acceptable in Thailand where every party without exception is right wing than even quite mild leftish politcal ideas.

The deabtes among the Thai left over red and yellow are quite interesting especially the more open minded ones.

Anyway recommend Pleum's analysis (he spoke for and gave backing the red shirts by the way for those not aware). I dont have a link. Does anyone?

Edited to add link: http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...cs-of-socialism

Yes, the PAD is far less nationalistic - the most basic attribute of fascism - than the TRT/redshirts. In fact the alliance is made up of more than a hundred NGOs, many led by Thais who have dedicated their entire careers to humanitarian issues in Thailand, as well as every major trade union in the country. They are supported by some of our major academics as well, eg Dr Prawase.

The whole royalist association is blown out of proportion, that's just part of the PR although there may or may not support from the monarchy (as would be their prerogative throughout history), something about which it isn't appropriate to conjecture on this forum or anywhere else in Thailand, publicly.

As for Chang Noi: just another western democracy fetishist. The PAD believe, and I agree with them, that majoritarian democracy won't work in the context of Thai society with its deeprooted patronage system and prevalent corruption in business and politics. The idea is to try and elect representation from all sectors of society, from workers, farmers, students, academics, professionals and so on, in the upper house,but leave the lower house elected at large. Many countries have similar approaches to the national legislature, including Belgium and Jordan. Such a bicameral assembly is considered especially effective in societies where there are deep divisions, as in Belgium between the French and the Flemish, in Jordan between rural and urban Muslims, and perhaps in Thailand as well with the split between the North/Northeast and the Bangkok/Central/South regions.

Even critics of the PAD should admit it's much better seeing them enter party politics than taking over airports

Several points here

1.Sheer nonsense to state the PAD isn't uber nationalistic.The trumped up nonsense over Preah Vihar was straight out of the fascist game book.

2.The PAD is an uber royalist movement, part of its pumped up nationalism. I have no idea by the way of what your "prerogative throughout history" comment means.

3.Chang Noi.You don't seem to have understood his position at all.Have you actually read many of his articles?

4.Your comment "western democracy fetishist" gives the game away.Your justification for fettered representation is a series of non sequiturs.Why on earth for example does deep seated corruption mean that democracy should be limited?I would have thought the argument ran the other way.

5.Your Flemish and Jordanian examples are strange.Many countries have minorities or structural differences but don't feel the need to strangle democratic rights.Do you know what bicameral means? Nobody has objections to bicameral representation. or even a partly nominated one (though fully elected is better as Abhisit has stressed).

[hammered]

Thanks for Nong Pluem's link.

Interesting piece.

Note how he bashes PAD for what they COULD become in the future. Typical right wing scaremongering about communism, blast from the past.

What is interesting is that Pluem wants to run on PTP ballot next time. Flies in the face of our resident leftists as he is strictly pro-business, big bosses know the best, stop the spead of socialism type.

In true Thaksin and the original founding members of TRT style. TRT were never socialist. They included a very few ex-CPT and the rdd shirts included more but from what I understnd never the numbers that joined up to the PAD. The lefty stuff and ex-CPT has been used to bash the red/TRT side for some while. Now PAD is not protected so well we will no doubt see something similar as the evidence is there. As I have said before it is far more acceptable to be right wing and even facist in Thailand than to be even soft left. That is the stick used against politcal opponents.

However, it is interesting to see some deeper analysis of the groups rather than just name calling without looking at everything.

The PAD are nationalist , and have strong ideas of what constitutes Thainess but so are and do all the political groups. As Pleum points out there some things that no political group that wants to succeed will deny or not support. However, a look is needed beyond that to see what they are really about.

All imho

[justanothercybertosser]

The PAD are nationalist , and have strong ideas of what constitutes Thainess but so are and do all the political groups. As Pleum points out there some things that no political group that wants to succeed will deny or not support. However, a look is needed beyond that to see what they are really about.

All imho

PAD's socialists are more national-socialist than socialist.

What is IMO though interesting in his article, and spot on, that the PAD is not to be written off, and has a fair chance to one day rule this country. The more messier the parliament becomes, the weaker the economy, the more attractive a fuzzy idea of "new politics" could become for many people. And very soon we will have a totalitarian system, in which any dissent will not be permitted.

[justanothercybertosser]

Yes, the PAD is far less nationalistic - the most basic attribute of fascism - than the TRT/redshirts. In fact the alliance is made up of more than a hundred NGOs, many led by Thais who have dedicated their entire careers to humanitarian issues in Thailand, as well as every major trade union in the country. They are supported by some of our major academics as well, eg Dr Prawase.

Just because people are NGO, does not make them democratic. Most major trade unions are not allied with the PAD. A few unions leaders are, but most of their members are not. Even Somsak Kosaisuk's state owned railway union could not pull off their strikes last year, because most members simply did not go along with it.

Most "major academics" do not support the PAD. 2008 has seen many academics who were once supporting the PAD distancing themselves (and getting viciously attacked for it). The remainder has used increasing sophism trying to justify their pro PAD views. Many of those have used within their departments enormous pressure to get other academics to sign pro-PAD pamphlets.

Ultra-Royalism and Nationalism are the main pillars of the PAD. I would suggest listening to their speeches.