Being A Well-dressed Farang

[jerry921]

Aside to mods: I suppose the idea of having a separate forum on "Face and Respectability in Thailand" has probably already been proposed and considered. I know there are plenty of places on the net where you can find superfical information on this, but wouldn't a place to discuss in-depth be useful?

In the qualifications thread pinned in the Teaching in Thailand forum the issue of being judged by one's shoes came up. Not wanting to drag that thread OT I have put a quote and my question here:

Thais will be more noticeable and judgemental of your shoes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[than your transportation.]

I saw the page on Ajarn board about fashion for teachers, but it didn't go in depth on shoes... I'm no Imelda, but I've got a couple pairs of good black dress shoes (American style). I know Thais are generally more brand conscious than I am, does brand/style matter? My pairs are old-fashioned (oxford style and the other is slip-on with tassle), not the square-toed Italian door-kickers that seem to be the rage today (yuk). I'd planned to bring and use what I have. Will looking old-fashioned be a negative? Should I, instead of using American or Italian styles, wait and buy something locally to get whatever's fashionable in Thailand? In general, trying to cut a dashing fashionable figure is a waste of time for me, but I want to look like I'm making an effort, and focus that effort where it will make the most difference.

[thaistick]

In business my black Ferragamo and Bally shoes and dark gray and navy Pierre Cardin and Armani suits were required attire.

My professors and teachers all dressed in oxfords and corduray jackets and seemingly in some shade of brown.

Wingtips are always good in business or academia.

[ProfessorFart]

Last time I taught in Thailand I wore shorts and trainers..........but then I was teaching tennis.

To be serious I don't think the style of shoe is going to affect what people think of you as long as they are formal enough for a Thai office.

[LaoPo]

  I know Thais are generally more brand conscious than I am, does brand/style matter? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes..you are right, but not only the Thai...what about the Chinese and Japanese?

In Paris, the Japanese tourists talk to people walking by and ask them, with money in their hands, if they would be so friendly to buy (more, and more) designer shoes, bags and clothes...since they are not allowed to buy more than xx pairs, or pieces in the designer shops...can you believe that? It's TRUE!

For Far East people it's more important to be seen with expensive clothes/shoes or bags and watches (!!) from designers as it is for 'Western' or Farang people in general.

It has to do with style and class and these people 'think' that other people will look upon them more than if they didn't have these items...sorry but class and style comes from within and not from the items themselves...

Let me tell you, there is no more beautiful sight than looking in Italy to the real stylish people walking in the streets...WOW..the style, class, smiles and the way they look, behave, TALK and WALK....unbelievable and so beautiful.

That's almost impossible to 'ever' learn..but we can try

It's in the country and their people itself and not the designer clothes or bags the 'East' people are so desperate after...

Good luck to everyone

PS: a funny thing happened to me, asking the way in BKK a few months ago at a small Police-booth, the guy didn't even looked at me but stared at....my watch..and didn't hear what I was asking...it tells all I would say.

LaoPo

[jerry921]

Yes, I was going to get around to asking about watch brands, because I typically never wear one at all. I suppose if I come to Thailand I'll have to change my ways, and I'll want to find something not too expensive that won't reduce respect.

Now you'll have to tell us what brand of watch you wear LaoPo...

[boris]

  I know Thais are generally more brand conscious than I am, does brand/style matter? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes..you are right, but not only the Thai...what about the Chinese and Japanese?

In Paris, the Japanese tourists talk to people walking by and ask them, with money in their hands, if they would be so friendly to buy (more, and more) designer shoes, bags and clothes...since they are not allowed to buy more than xx pairs, or pieces in the designer shops...can you believe that? It's TRUE!

For Far East people it's more important to be seen with expensive clothes/shoes or bags and watches (!!) from designers as it is for 'Western' or Farang people in general.

It has to do with style and class and these people 'think' that other people will look upon them more than if they didn't have these items...sorry but class and style comes from within and not from the items themselves...

Let me tell you, there is no more beautiful sight than looking in Italy to the real stylish people walking in the streets...WOW..the style, class, smiles and the way they look, behave, TALK and WALK....unbelievable and so beautiful.

That's almost impossible to 'ever' learn..but we can try

It's in the country and their people itself and not the designer clothes or bags the 'East' people are so desperate after...

Good luck to everyone

PS: a funny thing happened to me, asking the way in BKK a few months ago at a small Police-booth, the guy didn't even looked at me but stared at....my watch..and didn't hear what I was asking...it tells all I would say.

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on comments.I fully agree that the Italians are the most naturally stylish people.As Michael Palin once remarked a sojourn in Italy makes most Englishmen feel like Worzel Gummidge.Interestingly neither the Italians nor the French seem particularly preoccupied by designer labels, although of course there are many famous ones.As always the young and beautiful (and even impoverished)can get away with wearing almost anything and looking great, whereas high fashion consumers are often older and wealthier.

The Asian obsession with Western designer names is a little sad because of the lack of self confidence it suggests, although you won't find truly stylish Japanese for example milling around Louis Vuitton outlets in Europe..In Thailand largely for economic reasons the interest tends to be confined to the Sino-Thai Bangkok crew.Its a pity because I think as a general rule the Thais are a stylish nation.But the preoccupation with expensive labels, and I am aware I am descending to cliche, is probably inevitable in a culture where so much is attached to the surface appearence of things.

[Jai Dee]

I wear a gold watch... a Seiko I bought 3 years ago at Central Chidlom for 3,500 baht.

It looks the part although it's not solid gold, and yes, it is "recognized" by Thais as "gold". I do nothing to dispel that misconception.

Once when I was wearing another watch, a two-tone gold/silver combination, a chinaman asked me whilst shopping in his store, "are you trying to keep your money or give it away?". This was in reference to the colours of my watch.

He went on to explain that a gold watch symbolises accumulation of wealth, and that a silver watch meant that you had enough money already and were prepared to spend it. The two-tone watch meant that I was undecided or confused.

Anyone else hear of this?

[Ajarn]

Aside to mods: I suppose the idea of having a separate forum on "Face and Respectability in Thailand" has probably already been proposed and considered.  I know there are plenty of places on the net where you can find superfical information on this, but wouldn't a place to discuss in-depth be useful?

In the qualifications thread pinned in the Teaching in Thailand forum the issue of being judged by one's shoes came up.  Not wanting to drag that thread OT I have put a quote and my question here:

Thais will be more noticeable and judgemental of your shoes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[than your transportation.]

I saw the page on Ajarn board about fashion for teachers, but it didn't go in depth on shoes... I'm no Imelda, but I've got a couple pairs of good black dress shoes (American style). I know Thais are generally more brand conscious than I am, does brand/style matter? My pairs are old-fashioned (oxford style and the other is slip-on with tassle), not the square-toed Italian door-kickers that seem to be the rage today (yuk). I'd planned to bring and use what I have. Will looking old-fashioned be a negative? Should I, instead of using American or Italian styles, wait and buy something locally to get whatever's fashionable in Thailand? In general, trying to cut a dashing fashionable figure is a waste of time for me, but I want to look like I'm making an effort, and focus that effort where it will make the most difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The incomplete comment you quoted was partly tongue-in-cheek, as response to your concern about being driven to school on a bike, and losing face because of that...("Somehow I think being whisked to work on the back of a scooter being driven by a Thai in flip-flops might not be good for one's reputation.") Just use common sense in your dress. In a university, most any shoes are fine, including running shoes (teachers can do a lot of walking and climbing stairs to get to classes, etc.)... Sandals and such at a university are looked down on, pretty much the same as in your country. No big difference there, in my experience (I worked in Thai offices for 16 years)

My comment was to point out that many Thais often rely on the facade, rather than searching beyond that. You'll notice that even the poor among the Thais will always try to look as presentable as possible. It works, too. My new car changes my normal facade, meaning many Thais will show more respect to me simply because of the car I'm 'wearing'- or my watch, shoes, clothes, jewelry, etc...

It's great that you want to make the effort to look presentable here, but don't trip out on that too much. You sound like a smart and reasonable man, so just be yourself and don't worry about your face. A simple smile can be the most powerful and influential face here

[midas]

Apart from Italy, I also want to add another place where I

found very stylish people when I went ther

for the first time during the Christmas period - Kiev in The Ukraine.

And not only their clothing but their poise...

They may not have that much money yet - but believe

me in years to come - Kiev will become another

fashion centre because they already very aware

of and style and looking good.

[Blake7]

Talking of watches - I have huge problems with leather watch straps here - all the humidity and sweat makes them stinky and stained!

My watch came with an interchangable rubber dive strap as well as the leather one but the dive strap does not look so smart.

From now on I will only ever buy a watch with a metal band!

Has anyone else had such a problem with leather straps or am I just a really sweaty farang????

[LaoPo]

Yes, I was going to get around to asking about watch brands, because I typically never wear one at all.  I suppose if I come to Thailand I'll have to change my ways, and I'll want to find something not too expensive that won't reduce respect. 

Now you'll have to tell us what brand of watch you wear LaoPo...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

at least it was NOT a copy

Just a 'normal' kind of rectangular steel/black Longines with 3 small knobs on the side. I think too classy to copy

LaoPo

[Erwin1011]

Talking of watches - I have huge problems with leather watch straps here - all the humidity and sweat makes them stinky and stained!

My watch came with an interchangable rubber dive strap as well as the leather one but the dive strap does not look so smart.

From now on I will only ever buy a watch with a metal band!

Has anyone else had such a problem with leather straps or am I just a really sweaty farang????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here, but i still stick with leather. just go and buy a new one about every 6 mths.

[LaoPo]

Its a pity because I think as a general rule the Thais are a stylish nation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris: I agree to a certain extend.

It's a joy for the eyes if you are in a BKK 5 star Hotel looking at the beautiful waitresses in local Thai costumes. The grace, the smile and the way they talk and walk....UNIQUE in every sense.

That's style and class.

I know they have been trained but it looks so natural.

Of course when you hit the streets again it's all a deception again, unfortunately

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

He went on to explain that a gold watch symbolises accumulation of wealth, and that a silver watch meant that you had enough money already and were prepared to spend it. The two-tone watch meant that I was undecided or confused.

Anyone else hear of this? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most likely a Chinese kind of Phylosophy going back ages in his own environment.

In my opinion it also has to do with the uncertainty about the future. That's also why many people in the East buy gold and jewelry.

The Jews in Europe did the same back in the old century in the '20s and '30s' because of the upcoming 3rd Reich ( )...they put their money into Diamonds which are easy to take away on the run...unfortunately.

Sometimes in Europe you still see rich elder (Jewish) Ladies, completely covered with jewelry and Diamond rings that make you blind instantly .

Not stylish or classy but handy if you have to run fast 'empty handed' instead of carrying suitcases full of money

LaoPo

[snoophound]

It's a joy for the eyes if you are in a BKK 5 star Hotel looking at the beautiful waitresses in local Thai costumes. The grace, the smile and the way they talk and walk....UNIQUE in every sense.

That's style and class.

With ya there,they look absolutely stunning.

Shame they all prefer Jeans.

I hope they can keep the culture going in the face of relentless westernisation.

Its a pity because I think as a general rule the Thais are a stylish nation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris: I agree to a certain extend.

It's a joy for the eyes if you are in a BKK 5 star Hotel looking at the beautiful waitresses in local Thai costumes. The grace, the smile and the way they talk and walk....UNIQUE in every sense.

That's style and class.

I know they have been trained but it looks so natural.

Of course when you hit the streets again it's all a deception again, unfortunately

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[brianbrain]

PS: a funny thing happened to me, asking the way in BKK a few months ago at a small Police-booth, the guy didn't even looked at me but stared at....my watch..and didn't hear what I was asking...it tells all I would say.

LaoPo[/color]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right. My god you must be an ugly mug

[LaoPo]

PS: a funny thing happened to me, asking the way in BKK a few months ago at a small Police-booth, the guy didn't even looked at me but stared at....my watch..and didn't hear what I was asking...it tells all I would say.

LaoPo[/color]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right. My god you must be an ugly mug

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'r right...but.....where did you see me?

LaoPo

[chaladmak]

seems like a lot of "face" topics in this Forum ! is this such an important issue?

[bina]

chaladmak, just out of curiousity since you posted in a million places tonite, your english is sometimes perfect and sometimes really bad.... ?????

[Thaiboxer]

You don't need to go all out on the brand name stuff...many folks here will pick up the fake Ralph Lauren/ Gucci, etc things at any local mall and look fine when teaching or working in the office. Brand name stuff here is often A LOT more expensive than what one would be in the West because of import taxes. Regardless of style or brand choice, personal hygiene is extremely important here...perhaps more so than in many Western countries. With the hot, humid climate, two showers a day is norm for most people. The different natural chemicals in the food here often make Westerners' sweat smell worse than in their own countries which further necessitates taking two or more showers a day. I've run into some farang here with body odor so bad it would strip the paint off a house. Feel bad for those guest house staff on Khaosan Rd.

[Jai Dee]

It's a joy for the eyes if you are in a BKK 5 star Hotel looking at the beautiful waitresses in local Thai costumes. The grace, the smile and the way they talk and walk....UNIQUE in every sense.

That's style and class.

I know they have been trained but it looks so natural.

Of course when you hit the streets again it's all a deception again, unfortunately

Its IS natural... Thai women are so utterly feminine.

And when these women get out on the streets in their jeans after work, their femininity doesn't stop at the hotel door.

Maybe the one's you've seen on the streets are a different breed?

And Mr Thaiboxer, I would suggest that everyone (particularly falung) should visit the arb narm at least twice a day, and that's if you are in air conditioning most of the time. If you spend a lot of time outdoors in the heat and humidity, maybe 4-6 times a day would be more appropriate.

The Thais certainly do...

[Shola]

I agree that Thai's do dress very nicely, more so the girls I'd say.

The ironic thing is that they will spend a fortune on a designer name, say a Guess top or Lacost trousers, and all this stuff is made for about 200 Baht in a LOS factory, sent back to the States or Europe, then re-imported by the Thai's to buy at a hugely inflated price!! Usually costing more than you would pay for it in the States/Europe!

[Thaiboxer]

Yeah, the heat, humidity and different food ingredients here can make you stink like you've never stunk before! A little BO isn't so bad considering the climate but sometimes you run into a few folks whose BO is overpowering...like radioactive fallout.

[Thaiboxer]

I'd also like to add that despite the climate, I find most Thai students to be pretty well kept, except for a class of M4 boys I once had...those boys stunk!

[leftcross]

The Lacoste gear in LoS is a fraction of the price it is in England. I got a cap here for 500 baht that would cost about 40 quid back home and bought a jumper for 2000 baht that wouldn't be shy of a ton.

I'm only just getting to grips with the thinking behind gold. In England if you have to show jewellry off it usually means you haven't got any money and is considered vulgar.

Maybe I'll adopt the 'Mr T' look in the near future.

[Kringle]

To dress "smart" as my wife says, is to dress with nice slacks, polished shoes and a nice dress shirt (no tie required). Do this and even the Thais will take notice. I dress in shorts and a decent t-shirt when I'm around my little town but when I go into Gruntep, I try to present a better picture and my neighbors say, law maak. Neat is the number one in any situation but your atttude is only second to Thais. Gotta look good or your screwed from the getgo.