A Serious Topic

[Boh Bpen Yang]

I have to agree with an ealier poster.

It is important to me what people I care about think. But I can't always appease them either. Even my own family doesn't agree with everything I do. What narrow minded strangers think is outside my concern. When bad or vulgar remarks are made about our life (usually assumed incorrectly) I choose to ignore it. There is no merit in dignifying bad manners. The 70% figure I think is wrong in context (and the American connection is way out of line), although I know SOME Thai people who don't like foreigners anyway... no matter what.

Thai women in general are a very special character. A character not found easily anywhere in the world. I think many foreign men are attracted to this, not just the sex. In return they show the Thai women a respect that many have never seen from any male role model in their life .

Thai women like money as much as anyone else in the world, but I don't think it is the end all of their life (only speaking from my experience). If they could have a good, happy and secure life it doesn't matter if their significant other is foreign or Thai.

Speaking with Thai women I know, I get the feeling that they expect a Thai man to treat them badly. If this is the general feeling that they have, I can't blame them for not wanting to commit their life to that end.

So as someone once said jokingly and I repeat in the same way.

Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

[Khutan]

So where is this thread going ?

[kat]

... I said that when thai woman and farang walking together krub. then most of thai people always decided their mind to said that this woman is prostitute or used to be prostitude, the word used to be prostitude is because some have kids... Thai woman has a low education and don't have a good job. Then they have to find money to survive, to pay for their parent, or some thai woman already had a kid with other thai man, and they are divorced. The woman choose to be prostitude to find money for supporting life. but for this "This point Thai people know very well why are they doing this, but they do not like to do this

Mistadorn,

You classify these women as lacking education, job skills and desperate due to failed marriages. A more interesting question is why your society continues to produce this kind of women decade after decade. You can correctly argue that there exist some women who will choose this life but that is not what you describe. You specifically note causes within your society that produce these women.

By contrast my America society provides a free and legally mandated education for all of it's citizens paid by for all of its citizens. We recognize as a whole the value of an educated society to increase the standard of living for all citizens. We provide a fair environment where opportunity is extended to all to excel based on merit.

We provide money, food and housing to our poorest citizens. A single mother in my home need not turn to prostitution to feed her child. All citizens contribute taxes so that our poorest neighbors might have a chance in life.

We recognize in law the responsibility of both parents to support their children. In the event of a failed marriage both parents must continue to support their children. If a mother continues to raise the children the father must pay a monthly portion of his salary to provide for his children.

A bee will always seek out nectar. Likewise men will always seek women of easy virtue. The question is not why the men come. It is their nature. The question is why Thai society continues to produce the women that greet them year after year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure with what are you saying, Your English is just too professional for me which I could not understand much.I haven't study English. Until next time if my English proof I'll explain my English better than this. right now "RAVISHER" If u don't mind, would you please explain what he meant? I have heard enough about American politics that trying to helps other countries. But the helps is need to pay back to them. like helping Iraq bombing their country destroying building and kill God souls was an agreed by people of Iraq, but you steals those Oil from their country and having fun to use in America which Oil in Iraq is for sale to get income for their country. America got it for free. and what I posted before of this about relationship between America and Australia and some other country that used to be helps by America. All those thing "a helps from America" do you think it is a right way to do? Thailand have a very good friend with Japan. We used to helped them. and right now when Thailand have a problem Japan always give a hands to help without hoping anyting. for example "Tsunami", America did helps us. but the news said Indonesia refused helps from U.S.A, India refused a helps from U.S.A because I believe they have an experience learning from Iraq. they scared that you will get a good stuff of their country. those money moslty come into Thailand and other country was treating like Thai Gets too much money than other countries. This news make me pissed of. Japan country donates the money and they just quit away.... and a lot of more thing. just think why world don't really like American Politics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Misterdorn,

When your English is a little better read a book called, 'Confessions of an Economic

Hitman,' by John Perkins. He worked for Main, an American engineering company in the 80s and 90s that did economic studies in basically 'Third World' countries to 'help'

them get out of poverty. They would do studies for electricity grids, tell the country how much revenue they could generate selling electricity to their populace

over an extended period. Colorful graphs and important looking data was presented and then a figure for the cost was drawn up. The little party favor that

they kept secret was that the proposed bid was 10-20 times the actual amount that was needed to build the grid. In other words this company hand in hand with the US government hovering in the background would try to get countries like Panama, Indonesia and Columbia to borrow as much money as possible. The amount of money generated from electricity was never enough to pay back the loan. This is when the World Bank and the IMF come in. They loan more money to pay off the other loan and in the process take full control of the county's land, trade, resources and debt restructuring to further cripple their ecomomy. Now you know why leaders like Fidel Castro and Chavez of Venezuela have the told the USA where they can stick it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Misterdorn, don't be scared off. I would encourage you to keep at it. It is good for you to get ideas from others and practice your English. It's just a forum; you're not up in front of a class speaking. I wish more Thais were as outgoing and unafraid as you. Keep going and you'll go far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who knows exactly where the thread is going. Is it a requirement to know exactly where a conversation is going before engaging in one?

Mista Dorn, I'm glad you are still with us on this thread. In addition to the good advice above, I would also suggest that you begin to look at world history, to gain a global perspective on the history of injustice. Focusing solely on the United States really does not give you a full picture. As a start (if you have not done so already), you could read about the Japanese occupation of SEA during WW II and the impact that this had on Indonesian politics and nationalist violence to this day.

To fully understand political and social issues, you have to analyze many different angles. Once you have done so, it becomes increasingly difficult to make sweeping generalizations about "bad" countries and "good" ones.

And one other suggestion, if I may: Read up on the history of prostitution and the sex industry, and underage child abuse in Thailand. I have a feeling your outlook will become a lot more complex once you have done so. I will be happy to suggest books and internet links for you to start. Just whatever you do, don't stop here or now.

Cheers,

Kat

[Khutan]

Who knows exactly where the thread is going. Is it a requirement to know exactly where a conversation is going before engaging in one?

No, not rot really

And one other suggestion, if I may:  Read up on the history of prostitution and the sex industry, and underage child abuse in Thailand.  I have a feeling your outlook will become a lot more complex once you have done so.  I will be happy to suggest books and internet links for you to start.  Just whatever you do,  don't stop here or now.

Cheers,

Kat

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History, yes, it makes a very interesting read.

[aaaaaa]

It makes Thailand look like a sex country for farang.....  because it IS a sex country for farang. Simple. 

ghhhh.....

sorry, but I think must be something wrong with you. and I'm sorry for you too !

I for one am definetely a farang - and I don't see Thailand as sex country. and definetely I've came here repeatedly and concinuously since '99 NOT for sex, including the last I came here in what, 2003? on invitation of my friend to work for him.... and ever since while staying here these 2 years - I never thought of it as sex country. although I had / have relations with women here and am aware of vast number of 'fellow' farangs main reason for coming here. sure, sex industry is so ta say ''prominent" here - but where it is not? as I recall you are british - only recently there were some news on UK police trying to "help" on human trafficing related to sex trade and asian women there in you home country. many other examples can be given about virtually other "developed" country. the difference with asian countries is that "developed" countries with their "freedoms" and advanced "democracies" are more skilled at not exposing their vices than here in asia. what this guy has touched here - is a fact, most Thai ppl including women DO think at least not favorably at negatvie bahaviour of visiting guests . and because of that - they lood down even at those who live here with legitimate thai wives and kids. same sort of generalisation as yours here. if even people from "developed" countried have such a strong tendency to generalise - then what to expact from "uneducated" ppl from "less developed" countries, huh?

and I'm sure there are plenty of other farangs out there who neither come here for sex nor agree with your such statement and voicing out on behalf of all the farangs.

so, such statements as yours quoted above are very exgaggerated generalisations at least, and very unfair and even may be insulting at serious consideration.

I wonder why I wonder you, at your 60 with Thai wife already (as you revealed in other thread) would be interested to come and live here if you have such a low esteem of THailand? becuase you are farang too and married, so if you speak in such a way about Thailand it appears you don't approve of it being a "sex country" - then why bother come and live here? also for sex? does you wife know?

I think better be more carefull and choosy if not scrupulous with statements , pal !

[kat]

... sure, sex industry is so ta say ''prominent" here - but where it is not? as I recall you are british - only recently there were some news on UK police trying to "help" on human trafficing related to sex trade and asian women there in you home country. many other examples can be given about virtually other "developed" country. the difference with asian countries is that "developed" countries with their "freedoms" and advanced "democracies" are more skilled at not exposing their vices than here in asia. ...

I think better be more carefull and choosy if not scrupulous with statements , pal !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

aaaaaa, I am not defending Ravisher's comment, but I think you make some false generalizations yourself.

First of all, the sex industry here is not like everywhere else. It is the largest in the world (except for possibly Brazil), with more than 15-25% contributing to the GNP.

Secondly, there would never have been a *crackdown on human and child sex trafficking in the region if it wasn't for the international laws and pressure of Western countries.

Thirdly, who do you think is smuggling these women to third countries? The overwhelming majority (with the exception of Germany) are nationals of the sending countries - in this case, Thais.

Fourthly, you think developed countries are more skilled at covering up their vices? That doesn't even warrant a response.

Please get the facts. You sound like a Thai bureaucrat from the Ministry of Culture.

*I'm being far too generous in referrring to the government's response to trafficking as a "crackdown". Trafficking still occurs almost unabated with the cooperation of all the usual suspects - Thai police, civil servants, and traffickers.

Edited February 13, 2005 by kat

[aaaaaa]

I think this thread will not go anywhere....

but at least it is good that some guy, young enough comparing with dominating majority of regular member who posts in this Forum (sexpats, retired, and simply old grumblers who have nothing else to do than simply write in all the threads) AND more or less local , although he confessed that he is of very mixed up blood, descend and education, and even citizenship - has voiced up what Thai ppl think about such issues. perhaps because he is of such blend enabled him to be bold. most Thais won't even bother to COME to this Forum, and comment on such issues, what to say - start the whole new thread !

for an experiment - may be moderators or someone can add a poll to this thread - how many Thais and farangs participate in this discussion? most probably Dorn would be the only one (although again he is not even 100% Thai)

then what about all the youngsters , both teens and after-teens, - what they think about farangs? I bet they won't even ever bother to read any of these - what to say express their REAL opinion about all the issues touched upon here !

yeah, yeah - many would say that Thai youths won't be able to say much in English anyway. well, I would reply that even if Moderators or whoever concerned woul translate for them to enable such a dialogue- still they won't bother to express their opinion. although one think I'm absolutely sure of: they DO have their very definete opinion about all these things. and perhaps quite a lot of them - something like Dorn mentioned - that farangs take (I'd ass - corrupt) their women. and many other things they aint' happy about.

and I'm astonished with some farang women here saying something negative about Thai women like "with spread legs" ! shame. I SAW myself a lot of western (doesn't matter American or Eurpoians) eagerly spreading their legs for "uneducated" Thai boys after disco parties and other different sort of drunken orgies on the countless beaches of Thailand's islands. and in quite a few threads in Ladies part of this Forum (wich that lady member is mostly active in) farang gals not only admit, but openly discuss such things as how to get hit by thai guys.... so, I mean - there are a lot of farang females behaving worse than sluts, by the way adding to Thailand's image of popular sex-tourism destination. then why to make such comments about this nice and wonderfull countiry? you Navy brother and lot of others in those early years has started this - are you proud of it? why blame Thai women for "spreading their leg" - why not blame your bro for not keeping in hold his twiety? simply amazing !

and then - do all the expats here want to have racism as the main guide lines for this Forum - one of acusations somebody thrown on Dorn? because it seems they don't want Thais speak openly and boldy here.

this is real and serious issue - what locals think of farangs. so many subjects are about what farangs think about locals - why not show a bit tolerance at least to alternative points of view? but no - everybody jumps on single guy and starts to mock and accuse him, and all sort of general smart-assness which fills most of posts....

so, why try to boo this one person? I think he raised a good topic.

I wish only that more Thai people would write here in this thread and in this Forum.

I don't think he is a troll. rather those who started to call him names and even insult him - those are more trolls than him.

sure, it would be better if discussion could be constractive. but I think it mostly depends on the tone and style of all those "regulars"...

[aaaaaa]

Dorn,

many Thai women - both who do "work" in that business catering for farangs and even those who doesn't, complain that Thai men aint' good. that's why many of them decide that they don't want to have Thai man as b/f or husband. that's why many young and beautifull gals can be seen on the streets of Thailand with old farangs, who looks like "dried up lizards" as one my friend said, or as one taxi driver commented to me: "puying dek dek - farang khek khek" (or khet?) - "girl loosk like almost a child - and her companion as very old". BECAUSE this young girls prefer to sacrifice their youth to be with such old men than with young irresponsible Thai boys, who are "butterflies" (yes - not only farangs!) and have few other g/fs anyway. and in many cases, what is funny and ridiculous - if not sad - that many thai b/fs or husbands are BEING MAINTAINED by their g/fs or wives ! and my wife told me that some thai men even tell their wives of g/fs to do this business..... young thai girls surely would prefer to have nice and romantic relations with young Thai and handsome boy instead of old farter, BUT - they choose that old farang instead because they hope that at least he will take good care of them, especially financially.

for example, many Isaan gals come to Bkk to work as bar gals. why? they say that their man are drunkards, not responsible and don't care of them. my Italian friend who married Isaan gal told me that he was amazed - after 5pm in Isaan one can't find ANY SINGLE man who isn't drunk. and when I asked some taxi driver, from Isaan, is it true - he agreed with that laughing.

so, it is not only fault of farangs who come for sex here. Thai men should take better care of their women if they don't like and don't like them be taken away by "dry lizards".

and I don't agree that all women doing this sex "work" are all uneducated. in fact many of them have University degree, some even Master. and many quit their jobs, or do have jobs at the same time - and go to Nana (or plenty other places) at night. because they say they get salary not enough.

so, here is another reason: if all these women were helped with / given better education and jobs, surely they won't choose to go "spread legs" for some drunk and old farangs.....

I agree with you though that many farangs should change their behaviour and try to understand Thai culture. yes, sure prostitution or sex trade is one of the most ancient one in human society, not only in Thailand. but those farangs who generalise and think that all thai ppl think favorably towards it or that all thai women are prostitutes eagerly waiting to "spread their legs" - are definetely wrong.

thank you for raising this topic. but be carefull about all those who would sooner lable you as troll or whatever esle rather than trying to understand your concern and worry. you seems to be educated enough and intelligent man - don't waste your precious time on such useless comments.

and don't be intimidated by all those who would shout you donw because of your English. I bet 1000% that most of them won't fair even that much if you had this conversation with them in Thai ! so, don't be shy or afraid - speak out your mind. at least for me it is interesting to see the developement of your thread here and I appreatiate your endeavours for positive understanding of all these issues.

[aaaaaa]

From what I read on this topic, many posters have encouraged Dorn and want to hear what he has to say. He even said himself that he had many PM's to tell him he was doing very well. I for one want to hear what he has to say. And I give my opinion, as I see it, which may not be the way you or other people see it. We are all different and trying to understand each others differences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nice responce, Rav - sincere thanks ! I knew that you are responsible person ...

[meemiathai]

If somehow the word westerners was the reason for you not to understand the idea of my entire post, then what can I say? 

Or are you being a westerner yourself too embarassed to go into details to discuss straight to the matter I pointed out?

Dear meemiathai,

I quote your original post:

"Nice attitude! I like that!

How do you like Thailand?

Actually thank God he made this world with westerners or else people wouldn't even know how to breathe! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Are you a representative of the farang race?"

of which I had assumed was a tongue-in-cheek humorous post considering the smilies and the manner in which you phrased the post. As such, my post was meant in the same vane of off-center humor. Perhaps this is just another case of the beast of cultural differences rearing its ugly head again (making the assumption that you are of the Asian persuasion). But unfortunately, I have no way of knowing what your intentions were since I forgot to make my monthly payment on my crystal ball and am currently limited to seeing into local minds only and not the minds of Hong Kong residents.

So if the "idea' of your post was not humor, then yes I did miss your point.

In response to your earlier question, "Are you a representative of the farang race?"; yes, I am a 'westerner' so I guess by default I represent them. To your question in your latter post, No I am not "to embarrassed to go into details to discuss straight to the matter" if there is a 'matter' to discuss. But failing to be able to decipher any 'matter' in your post other than the perceived humor, I fail to see any earth shaking issues that should elicit any other kind of response except the (apparently failed) humorous response which I did. "then what can I say" you state in your most recent post, well how about being more specific as to exactly what the 'real matter' was in your original post.

Perhaps, my friend you are taking life a bit too seriously. As I stated earlier ijs this just another culture clash or are you so insecure with yourself and feel your culture so threatened with the western influence that is too much to handle. Why is it that the east seems to have such a problem with 'western influence' while the west IMHO seems to accept and incorporate eastern influence into their culture with much more ease. I have been to a heck of a lot more 'chinatowns' in many western countries than 'American or British or Aussie towns' in eastern countries. The west seems willing to allow other cultures into there social structure while still allowing these cultures to maintain their cultural identities. Can the same be said for the east?

The world is getting smaller every day and globalization ( another one of those cliches) is unavoidable. Throughout history, cultures have interfaced and influenced each other and sorry to say but I don't see and end to that soon. Each of us has to sift through this melting pot as a person and as a culture and decide what WE choose to accept and what we choose to reject. There a lot of very good qualities in every culture and I for one strive to understand those attributes and to use them in my life to better myself.

Bottom line, lighten up and , think you will enjoy life more

Another case of (hu)man (nat)ure??????????????????????

This is a response to your comments to me, as to any response to Mrs. Merlin, I would leave that "matter" with her to respond.

Mr. D

Dear dvk1951,

I am terribly sorry for totally misunderstanding your post and your intention.

I now understand exactly what you meant.

Please accept my apology and thanks for the reply.

MMT

[kat]

and I'm astonished with some farang women here saying something negative about Thai women like "with spread legs" ! shame. I SAW myself a lot of western (doesn't matter American or Eurpoians) eagerly spreading their legs for "uneducated" Thai boys after disco parties and other different sort of drunken orgies on the countless beaches of Thailand's islands. and in quite a few threads in Ladies part of this Forum (wich that lady member is mostly active in) farang gals not only admit, but openly discuss such things as how to get hit by thai guys.... so, I mean - there are a lot of farang females behaving worse than sluts, by the way adding to Thailand's image of popular sex-tourism destination. then why to make such comments about this nice and wonderfull countiry? you Navy brother and lot of others in those early years has started this  - are you proud of it? why blame Thai women for "spreading their leg" - why not blame your bro for not keeping in hold his twiety? simply amazing !

and then - do all the expats here want to have racism as the main guide lines for this Forum - one of acusations somebody thrown on Dorn? because it seems they don't want Thais speak openly and boldy here.

this is real and serious issue - what locals think of farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aaaaaa: If you are going to comment on farang women, then you are making a general comment. If you are going to comment on the opinion of one poster who happens to be a farang woman, then you should refer to her by NAME, as you do with other posters.

And exactly where in the women's section do you find women talking about hitting on Thai men? They are discussing their relationships with Thai men, just as most other men on this forum including yourself discuss relationships with Thai women.

And I have news for you: female tourists who engage in consensual sex with males are not contributing to the sex-tourism industry. How you choose to define a slut is your business, but I have a feeling it suggests a lot more about your personal attitudes towards women in general.

The American soldiers who "started this" sex-tourism trend could not have done so without the Thai government and the Thai tourism industry, as well as the homegrown tradition of Thai prostitution and concubinage which started centuries ago.

[meemiathai]

Kat, just why are you so quick each time at jumping in to defend your beloved country 'America' or the west each time people mention some of the bad things they did?

I remember you asking once here "just because things are as bad in our countries we are not allowed to talk about it here?".

But when people talk about westerners coming to molest children, your first reaction is to say that the majority who molest children are the thais themselves.

Isn't that double standard?

Do you like/hate thailand?

Why are you here?

What do you do that made you think you know so much about the TRUTH here?(that all thai police are bad and corrupted and helping in human traffick)

[bahtnbaht]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

[aaaaaa]

Hello once again,

First of all I tought most of people here are Thai, but seems to be not. I am Thai and wondering something about American people or other farang who lived here in Thailand.  Mostly America is the country that being hate by many countries including American people. The crazy power of American, and always look down to other country or seeking other country, destroying....

Dorn, you mix up different thing - politics and social issues. well, sure teir are related/ connected. for example American foreign policy in those days caused their "participation" in the Vietnam war, which caused a lot of young american boys who most of them didn't want to go to war and were forced/ drafted but would prefere rather to have fun with young gals in their homeland - they came to Asia and discovered all asian women. and with all the international restling those days between mighty superpowers for zones of influence - with cummunism threat and capitalism brave edvevours to prevent it, poor ppl in poor asian nations started to taste the flavor of green bucks.

and it is not only fault of those young american soldiers - their governments would rahter pay their "relaxation trips" to nearest Bangkok to let them let out the "steam" to boost their "morale" for continuing fighting in foreign land fo God knows what sake (while their friends and parents etc were marching in protests against those drafts back home) . otherwise many would desert from their "duty to the nation" (as did many in other stupid wars - like russian boys during Afgan and Cechnya wars or Iraq's boys from Saddam's army - or even as some american soldiers and even officers from "liberating" war in Iraq).

so, it was more easy to corrupt the female population of undeveloped countries (BTW one of the unspoken weapons against enemy - ideologial) - after all they may fall into comunism soon (CHina, Vietnam, Laso, Cambodia those days were under strong communism influence) . so why bother about some little brown doll-like women becoming prostitutes? they may become communists soon anyway. better let brave american boys have fun - after all they protect the interests of "free world" in the region in their fight against communism dictatorship. and boys are boys anywhere in the world - they like booze and sex - remember all those hippy movements in the West in 60s ? USA government didn't know what to do with them - with their open antagonism of hypocrasy of "developed" Western civilazations, their "free love" and open deniel of Western values and style of life by joining en mass countless religeous New Age groups and simply degrading themselves into drug addiction. it was surely better to send them into distant land with malaria infested jungles "to fight communists" then trying to put them under control back home. and better they go have fun with those Thai gals - who cares those gals will start the industry of go-go bar girls? at least their "eagerly spreading legs" for green dollar it is not so bad and immoral as "free love" movement in USA .... because after all most of them had no choise anyway - war could come to their country soon enough with all the communist insurgencies down South in Malaysia and even in Thailand itself - and with all communist oriented neighbours. so, the prospects for Thailand becoming "developed" country - even in economical terms - were very slim, but obvious enough and easy to understand even for uneducated Thai girls, who nevertheless needed to feed their families.

and it is not only example of Thai women becoming sex providers for foreigners. Chinese and Korean women were same for Japanese army few decades earlier....

not to mention the old Biblical phrase one friend of mine reminded me of recently: something like "go to land of your enemies idol worshipers (READ: communist dictators in those days) and take their land and their riches and take away and enjoy their women and leave their land barren"... I'm not sure about accuracy of this quote - specialists please correct it. and all those conquests by Alexander the Great , Roman empire, then christian crusades to Aravia and then "discovery of Americas", British rule etc etc. all have an indication of using women of conquered or "discovered" or colonised or "liberated" countries for sex. simply read even todays international news - UN charges peacekeepers soldiers with sex crime - in the country were they have a mission to help !

so it is old tendency... and relations between political and social issues old too. humans no matter how developed and sophisticated they become, seem won't ever overcome such their wrong.

but, Dorn, don't mix up different things: individuals and nations with governments/ politicians.

I mean - don't blame all americans or farangs. not all are the same ! it is not fair to see them in the same way. same as to see all THai women as prostituted or all Thai men as useless loosers and drunkards (or potential katoeys ! )

try to understand - don't try to MISunderstand !

that some - or many - farangs come to Thailand and walk on the street with Thai gilr - it is not only their fault. it is a very complicated issue - lack of culture and education (yes ! ) in their own countries, the existence of sex trade in this country and many other things. there is no simple solutions here. and with same success everybody can be blamed or nobody seriously....

and we can't change much by discussing all these here - only perhaps ourselves and our own attitudes and opinions and may be practicaly application of them.

so, I believe you have such a positive and proper motivation in starting and continuing this topic here. if so - my regards to you. if you want only to ignite the pointless and useless exchange of blames and accusations etc - then better you reconsider and end this. somehow I am inclined to feel and think that you are sincere in all your comments here - so please simply remain sincere.

[meemiathai]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

Did you say that out of jealousy?

Or why?

[bahtnbaht]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you say that out of jealousy?

Or why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jealous??? Why???

[meemiathai]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

Did you say that out of jealousy?

Or why?

Jealous??? Why???

If not, explain.

[srisatch]

I just came back from out of town to read all this amazing rubbish!!

Who is this MistaDorn???

A Thai boy had his wife/girfriend/floozie lost her body and heart to a farang when she went off to work in BKK? Or a rich Thai right wing guy? or a guy who is living off the earnings of a Nana chick?Who knows?

Most working Thai girls I know, who have a brain, have chosen to keep a million miles between themselves and Thai boys...WHY?

Let me go further...This "MistaDorn" says that some% Thai people think any Thai girl with farang is garee....so what does that tell us....On the one hand Thai people are...let me use the word RACIST....and on the other they think..good luck to the girl..milk the farang for money

I have long thought that the word "farang" is a really big problem...it allows Thais to class anyone who is not "Khon Thai" as farang...is that racist otr not?

I have said elsewhere...I speak Thai, I have a Thai wife and children, I choose to live in Muang Thai......but there are days when the sheer incomprehension between Farangs and Thais gets wearing!!!

Here we have Farang bending over backwards..can you,.. to accommodate the "views" of this racist..Thai people are this..Thai people are that...better than farang...who that...??

Yes Thai people in public treat each other with far greater politeness, generally, speaking, than farang.

I have never experienced anyone treating my wife like a sophanee..which she is/was not...and in the UK they think she is "exotic"...but even there they can tell the difference between a TRhai/Lao garee and anormal human being...surprised?

This crap makes me very grumpy...have another gin, sahib?

[Dickie]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you say that out of jealousy?

Or why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jealous??? Why???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If not, explain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe rephrase it to read Americans that are arrogant and obnoxious do not help themselves. Note the apostrophe is gone

[meemiathai]

I have long thought that the word "farang" is a really big problem...it allows Thais to class anyone who is not "Khon Thai" as farang...is that racist otr not?

And you say you speak thai?

Racist?

[kat]

Kat, just why are you so quick each time at jumping in to defend your beloved country 'America' or the west each time people mention some of the bad things they did?

I remember you asking once here "just because things are as bad in our countries we are not allowed to talk about it here?".

But when people talk about westerners coming to molest children, your first reaction is to say that the majority who molest children are the thais themselves.

Isn't that double standard?

Do you like/hate thailand?

Why are you here?

What do you do that made you think you know so much about the TRUTH here?(that all thai police are bad and corrupted and helping in human traffick)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

America is not my beloved country. It is just simply, the country of my birth. My parents are from developing countries, and I have a much more complex view of America and every other country than the popular politcally-correct dogma of the day. I also don't subscribe to any precious nationalist sentiments about any country. As a researcher, I much rather discover the facts. And the more facts you uncover, the more perspective you gain, in my experience.

As to my double-standards, just read my posts. I don't let Westerners or Western countries off the hook. But when we are discussing sexual abuse and human trafficking, there is absolutely no double-standard in my comments. I look at present conditions as they are, not as how I think they should be. As to what I am doing here, I don't need to answer to you simply because you don't like my statements. But I can assure you, that my stay here has not been to frequent girly bars, full moon parties, or to find a Thai wife.

I have researched every statement that I make concerning human trafficking and child sexual abuse. If you don't like it, then why don't you channel your anger into changing it, rather than shouting down the messenger? I will gladly supply you or anyone else with a list of books, sources, and research material, as I have offered numerous times on this forum. But don't berate me because I've already been there and done it and have something to say about it. The humans and children that are victimized by trafficking are largely girls, so don't turn this into a love/hate Thailand thing.

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah right. And many Brits love to look down their noses at everyone else, especially when they have nothing significant to say.

Edited February 13, 2005 by kat

[RDN]

This topic is called "A Serious topic", but it is getting seriously off-topic. There are ways of talking about other nationalities without be rude, snide or aggressive.

Please cool it, people - be nice, or the topic will be closed.

[chonabot]

but even there they can tell the difference between a TRhai/Lao garee and anormal human being...surprised?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you expand on this statement and remove the forest from your eye before pointing out the thorn in others?

I can explain this euphemism to you if you wish.

[dvk1951]

Americans do not help themselve's, arrogant and obnoxious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please stick to the topic and contribute accordingly.

If it is bashing/trolling you wish to do, please seek another thread

[dvk1951]

Dear dvk1951,

I am terribly sorry for totally misunderstanding your post and your intention.

I now understand exactly what you meant.

Please accept my apology and thanks for the reply.

MMT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MMT,

I really appreciate your response and your honesty. I consider threads like this to be educational. We all come from different backgrounds and social upbringing and by communicating here we can better understand each other. Hopefully I can make my posts easier for you to understand my intentions, my intention was not to mislead you or anyone else. Please continue to post as I for one enjoy seeing what others like you have to say.

Nuff said

[dvk1951]

This topic is called "A Serious topic", but it is getting seriously off-topic. There are ways of talking about other nationalities without be rude, snide or aggressive.

Please cool it, people - be nice, or the topic will be closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks RDN, although I am not sure that one wack with a verbal stick will make the children behave.

[somtam mai-ped]

I have never experienced anyone treating my wife like a sophanee..which she is/was not...and in the UK they think she is "exotic"...but even there they can tell the difference between a TRhai/Lao garee and anormal human being...surprised?

This crap makes me very grumpy...have another gin, sahib?

This makes me laugh. You must be lying to yourself here. EVEN your own people in the UK will give you a dirty look or a sneer when you are walking with your wife - unless you try to ignore it at your best. Why???

Because They think she is married to you for money and just wants a better life.

There are a lot of small minded British people but British here are not accepting of the fact.

[somtam mai-ped]

WE Thai people know that we have prostitutes

And do you American and British not have prostitutes????

Americans treat their women really well??????- millions of american women are in the porn industry no wonder why the biggest porn industry in the world is in America. Yet they claim they treat women with respect.

In Thailand you pay for sex but you farang think it is bad - in Farangs world women sleep around so you don't need to pay for sex just pay for a few drinks.

Do you think your relatives sleeping with 10 men before settling down is acceptable?

[MistaDorn]

WELL WELL WELL!!!!!!

Get it right!!

Most Thai women are married to Farangs are not Thai men's taste anyway.

They have dark skin the darker the better for farang it seems.

They tend to be low educated, so farangs can control them as most farangs here in Thailand are loosers at ther own home unable to find their own women. WHY???

They don't like women who can challange them......so TRUE!!

The girls just want your money but Thai men know the trick - let stupid farangs pay for them.

Thai men are not jealous of farangs marrying Thai women at all.

sounds like someone got burned in a bad marriage. My condolescences....

but please curtail your anger towards your own personal bad experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

first of all, I tought the topic is already finish, but it is going on. so can say that my topic went HOT!!!. I am agreed with this messages. this is the true answer that I want to know and wanted you to know. SOME ARE REALLY LIKE THIS. FARANG being fooled by Thai people. but please don't be angry. some Farang and Thai woman really loved each other. all are SOME, because there is "SOME GOOD and SOME BAD" in love and money. some Thai Prostitude love a farang who have money and what you don't know is "some Thai prostitude give money to farang. Farang have no money but the girl supporting him, because of love. so in this case. All are about money and sex. if Farang have money to Thai girl, the girl are like to do everything that farang wants. but if the thai woman have the money and farang have no money or in trouble woman will helps or some are leave and shout at farang outloud on the stree. I met this my self near my house. many farang being shouted by thai woman very very loud. My house is in Sukhumvit Soi 3 which is in the heart of Bangkok. lot of traveller is in my Soi. No wonder what I met everyday here. but anyway, I love you all here who lived and spend your time in Thailand.

[meemiathai]

As a researcher, I much rather discover the facts. And the more facts you uncover, the more perspective you gain, in my experience.

But do you ever wonder if you are really discovering the facts or is just what you think are the facts? Do you ask yourself if you have tried hard enough to understand the facts?

As to my double-standards, just read my posts. I don't let Westerners or Western countries off the hook. But when we are discussing sexual abuse and human trafficking, there is absolutely no double-standard in my comments. I look at present conditions as they are, not as how I think they should be.

Would you agree if I say you were not answering my question?

As to what I am doing here, I don't need to answer to you simply because you don't like my statements.

Why can't you just simply say 'I don't want to tell you' for such a simple question?

But I can assure you, that my stay here has not been to frequent girly bars, full moon parties, or to find a Thai wife.

Are you implying that my stay in Thailand has been to frequent girly bars, full moon parties, or to find a Thai wife? I have done none of the above.

I have researched every statement that I make concerning human trafficking and child sexual abuse. If you don't like it, then why don't you channel your anger into changing it, rather than shouting down the messenger? I will gladly supply you or anyone else with a list of books, sources, and research material, as I have offered numerous times on this forum. But don't berate me because I've already been there and done it and have something to say about it. The humans and children that are victimized by trafficking are largely girls, so don't turn this into a love/hate Thailand thing.

I agree that my post showed disapproval with your opinion. But what makes you think there is anger in me? I got this feeling that whenever someone's opinion differs from yours, you think it is personal. I sincerely asked you a few questions hoping to make things more clearly but.... Not sure if it was done on purpose or you really did not know what I was asking, you hardly answered any of them. You can't even say if you like or hate Thailand!

Surely you don't need to answer my post.