Fabianfred Hdr Photo Challenge

[fabianfred]

Nice shot Kan Win..

It is my understanding that Photomatix will align pix as well as it can...then any moving objects such as people walking or birds...it will choose only one pic to be the main image for those cases...

[Pooklook]

This is my first attempt at HDR, took the pics with my canon 5DMkII

at the Bangkok Motor Show this year.

Used photoshop CS3 merge HDR feature. Lotta work but fun..

[Tingnongnoi]

hdr action, from one RAW file in photomatix

[lordsux]

Maybe to help us learn a bit more about what HDR is about then submitters could post the original image/s used. More so as using this 'pseudo' single image phenomenon is allowed in this challenge. It really has nothing to do with HDR. Even 3 exposure bracketed .jpgs do not create a true HDR because they simply do not contain the tonal range to start with. To produce a real HDR image you need at least 3 exposure bracketed RAW files.

[fabianfred]

This is my first attempt at HDR, took the pics with my canon 5DMkII

at the Bangkok Motor Show this year.

Used photoshop CS3 merge HDR feature. Lotta work but fun..

This image is lit by flash isn't it.....can a flash image make an HDR image??

I'm not jealous of your 5D mkII........ No!.... really I'm not!.... well....Ok then....I am........

[Tywais]

To produce a real HDR image you need at least 3 exposure bracketed RAW files.

My camera has auto-bracketing up to +/-2 EV for 3 frames and can use continuous shooting mode with it. I was wondering about how many brackets should be used and came across a good article in showing how to decide and set it up. It also shows how to go further in range then the +/- 2ev.

NatureScapes.net

Interesting discussion over at Flickr on it also > Flickr: Discussing HDR

[Pooklook]

This is my first attempt at HDR, took the pics with my canon 5DMkII

at the Bangkok Motor Show this year.

Used photoshop CS3 merge HDR feature. Lotta work but fun..

This image is lit by flash isn't it.....can a flash image make an HDR image??

I'm not jealous of your 5D mkII........ No!.... really I'm not!.... well....Ok then....I am........

I created 3 images from one flash photo, one underexposed one normal exposure and one over exposed

and used CS3 merge HDR. I must say I have really enjoyed reading about this process online and the

many techniques of sampling the image to achieve HDR. Fabianfred the camera is yours to BORROW anytime.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Pooklook

[lordsux]

Not knocking your methods or the image which I like a lot, but the dynamic range needs to be captured with the camera and not 'created' on a PC. You can't bring out the full DR if it's not there to start with. What you are doing is 'exposure blending' not HDR image creation.

The first link that Tywais posted is great and explains the HDR technique very concisely.

Edited June 20, 2009 by lordsux

[Pooklook]

Rules....!!!

I declare there are no rules...... no limit to the number of images........true HDR and pseudo (tone mapped) are allowed.

Fill ya boots!

pseudo HDR is allowed according to Fabianfred. pseudo HDR is Single Source Image HDR

[lordsux]

Rules....!!!

I declare there are no rules...... no limit to the number of images........true HDR and pseudo (tone mapped) are allowed.

Fill ya boots!

pseudo HDR is allowed according to Fabianfred. pseudo HDR is Single Source Image HDR

<snip>

The idea of these challenges is to have fun, but also to learn new techniques.

<snip>

Please no personal attack allowed and this is NOT 'Evauate my photo' also.

Kan Win

Edited June 21, 2009 by Kan Win

[H2oDunc]

If anybody has downloaded the software and needs the manual to go with it PM me as I have it as a PDF. I'm going to have a play with it this afternoon

[fabianfred]

I admit that this challenge misses out on the true HDR images.... but it has got a few people to have a go at a process which can enhance images....and make them more interesting.

Using a program like Photomatix cuts out the need to learn a more complex software like Photoshop, which some people are a bit wary of....maybe being newcomers to the hobby....... and it is free with only a few limitations.

[Kan Win]

Hi All,

Please remember Thai Visa Rules

4) Not to flame fellow members.

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Thank you.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[aeon]

Maybe to help us learn a bit more about what HDR is about then submitters could post the original image/s used. More so as using this 'pseudo' single image phenomenon is allowed in this challenge. It really has nothing to do with HDR. Even 3 exposure bracketed .jpgs do not create a true HDR because they simply do not contain the tonal range to start with. To produce a real HDR image you need at least 3 exposure bracketed RAW files.

before the Raw data was popular I use to shoot many tif with different exposures (I think around 8 shots) and combine together into a 32bit (per channel) file format, the result is better (more versatile) than single shot using Raw (normally 8 bit or 16 per channel). Of course that had many disadvantages, such as being time consuming (action shots are impossible), need tripod and remote, processing the different exposures, etc., but if you do a nice work, you will get less noise in the dark areas compared to a single shoot in raw.

I prefer though 3 exposures in raw (-2 0 +2), it is much easier, especially with image stabilizer lenses and a canon 40d that shoot like a machine gun, sometime no need tripod.

[Kan Win]

I admit that this challenge misses out on the true HDR images.... but it has got a few people to have a go at a process which can enhance images....and make them more interesting.

Using a program like Photomatix cuts out the need to learn a more complex software like Photoshop, which some people are a bit wary of....maybe being newcomers to the hobby....... and it is free with only a few limitations.

Well said 'fabianfred'.

I for one tried the 3 to 5 shots and failed badly.

Then I took the other road, as you know 'there are more ways to skin a cat'

I really like using Photomatix as I take RAW photo now (since members of this forum suggested 'that is the way to go' ) and process to enhance me images. Egg-samples below:-

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[Kan Win]

Not knocking your methods or the image which I like a lot, but the dynamic range needs to be captured with the camera and not 'created' on a PC. You can't bring out the full DR if it's not there to start with. What you are doing is 'exposure blending' not HDR image creation.

The first link that Tywais posted is great and explains the HDR technique very concisely.

but you are knocking our method of 'look a like' HDR. Nobody said that they are TURE ones, or did they.

Have a look at my post in there as you must have missed it

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Evaluate-Photo-t253956.html

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[Kan Win]

Maybe to help us learn a bit more about what HDR is about then submitters could post the original image/s used. More so as using this 'pseudo' single image phenomenon is allowed in this challenge. It really has nothing to do with HDR. Even 3 exposure bracketed .jpgs do not create a true HDR because they simply do not contain the tonal range to start with. To produce a real HDR image you need at least 3 exposure bracketed RAW files.

Maybe to help us learn a bit more about what HDR is about then submitters could post the original image/s used.

In RAW no chance as ThaiVisa does not support this type of file to post as an 'the original image' and then even in .jpg they are very large and take up too much room in 'Your Attachment' folder.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Evaluate-Photo-t253956.html

Apart from your words 'lordsux' on this thread, one has not seen your presentation

Well at least we did post our photos.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[Kan Win]

Sanctuary Of Truth, Pattaya.

Very nice indeed.

One shot or a true HDR taken with many shots?

Thanking you.

Yours truly,

did see it, but was a bit busy of late to comment.

Kan Win

[Sunny Valentine]

Here's another attempt, from Mae Sa Waterfalls in Chiang Mai. 3 Exposures, blended with Photomatix.

[Sunny Valentine]

Sanctuary Of Truth, Pattaya.

Very nice indeed.

One shot or a true HDR taken with many shots?

Thanking you.

Yours truly,

did see it, but was a bit busy of late to comment.

Kan Win

True HDR, with 5 exposures. Biggest challenge in shooting was to tell the guide that although I came with a tripod and large bag of gear, I was not using the photos commercially .....

Sunny

[lordsux]

Rules....!!!

I declare there are no rules...... no limit to the number of images........true HDR and pseudo (tone mapped) are allowed.

Fill ya boots!

pseudo HDR is allowed according to Fabianfred. pseudo HDR is Single Source Image HDR

<snip>

The idea of these challenges is to have fun, but also to learn new techniques.

<snip>

Please no personal attack allowed and this is NOT 'Evauate my photo' also.

Kan Win

Personal attack!??? Seems more like you are the one doing the attacking Kan Win. Pulling apart my post as you see fit, and then falsely accusing me in big red letters of personal attacks is downright ridiculous! and more of a personal attack directed at me. Where in the mutilated post did I make this personal attack or flame anyone? Exactly, I didn't. It's not my style. Complimenting the image for what it is, and at the same time trying to help the poster to understand the workings of HDR imagery is not a personal attack at all. (It was after all his first attempt at HDR) The post was helpful and informative before you hacked it up.

I know that this is not the 'Evaluate my Photo' but I don't see anywhere where is states 'constructive criticism and polite helpful advice is not allowed' on Challenges. It should in fact be welcomed so that we can learn how to do things properly.

I really think you have overstepped the mark on this one.

I actually logged on to submit a real HDR image in the challenge, but after seeing this example of 'personal moderation' I think I will wait until there is a real HDR challenge instead of this 'post what you want and call it HDR' version.

No doubt this post will be hacked up like the previous, and I will be falsely hung out as someone that makes 'Personal attacks' again.

Unbelievable really!

[aeon]

One shot or a true HDR taken with many shots?

Not to be flaming or anything to be taken personally, just need to clarify to the uninformed readers:

Any picture file created with an algorhythm which store more tonal range than a LDR (Low dynamic range) is called HDR, even single shot 8bit raw files.

Shooting several exposure is a method to get HDR from LDR files, if you do with 3 or more HDR of course you get more ranges with less shots.

Also, HDR video camera are available on the market, and for the nature of video is uncommon and/or impossible to shoot many time the same identical take, but still you get an HDR footage.

Edited June 21, 2009 by aeon

[lordsux]

Photomatix review and why you can't make a HDR range image from a single file

Mathematical reason why HDR cannont be created using a single file

I suppose it's better to be uninformed than misinformed.

[aeon]

Photomatix review and why you can't make a HDR range image from a single file

Mathematical reason why HDR cannont be created using a single file

I suppose it's better to be uninformed than misinformed.

If you read well (or more times) my post and the pages you linked, you will discover they say the same thing: You cannot get HDR from 1 single LDR picture file.

If google is your holy book (not mine), then you can go further than the first page of results, and partly solve any lack whatever it is (uniformation or misinformation).

Here is a link which explain differences between different methods and softwares; However even if is not really accurate, it can be a good introduction for the practical use:

http://digital-photography-school.com/an-i...nge-imaging-hdr

If you prefer wikipedia:

"An algorithm is applied to the six images to recreate the high dynamic range radiance map of the original scene (a high dynamic range image). Alternatively, some higher-end consumer and specialist scientific digital cameras are able to record a high dynamic range image directly, for example with RAW images."

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_mapping

Sorry if I have no time to do a more accurate text by myself, all the linked pages lack of a very deep explanation of many technical and perception issues.

Uninformation better than misinformation? Not so sure, lazyness is the worst, is always better to know than believe.

[lordsux]

Some think that it's possible to get blood out of a stone, some think macs are better than PC's, some think that the chicken came before the egg, and some think that is is possible to get something out of pixels that isn't there.

Maybe it's best just to agree to disagree. There will always be some that disagree with the majority, which in itself is a good thing. It would be a very boring existence if we all had the same opinions.

Just for information, I downloaded a 30 day evaluation version of Corel's Photoimpact x 3 yesterday which has a pretty nifty HDR capability built in. Maybe worth a try for those who prefer to do all their PP on a single application.

Good luck all with the challenge and hope that we all have learnt a little more about the very complex technique of HDR imagery.

Edited June 22, 2009 by lordsux

[Kan Win]

FAQ on Photomatix Pro - Tips & Tricks

I have a RAW file. Can I make different exposures with it to use in your software?

Yes, you can still use Photomatix when you have shot only one exposure in RAW mode. The big advantage, of course, is that you just need one image, so there is no need to use a tripod or to remember to auto-bracket, and it will also work if the subject is moving.

owever, the range of "workable" exposures you can get from a RAW file is limited. If you are shooting a high contrast scene, you are unlikely to match the results you would have with taking the scene under different exposures that can cover the whole dynamic range.

There are three techniques for using Photomatix with one single exposure taken in RAW mode:

Technique 1: Open your RAW file in Photomatix to convert it into a pseudo-HDR image, then tone map it.

Technique 2: Convert your RAW file into a 16 bits/channel image in your favorite RAW converter, open it in Photomatix, and tone map it.

Technique 3: Create two or three exposures in your RAW converter and combine them in Photomatix as it they were "real" bracketed shots

Technique # 3 gives generally the best results. Also, it has the advantage of working with Exposure Blending.

For good results with these techniques, it is important to ensure the lowest noise level at capture time. For that, set the lowest ISO possible (ISO 100 for instance) and expose for the shadows when taking the RAW image, i.e. overexpose your shot. Even though the histogram of your camera may indicate that highlights will be lost, you should still be able to recover them during RAW conversion (unless the scene is too high contrast, but then a single image will not be sufficient for good results with Photomatix). There are two examples obtained this way here.

Deriving "fake" exposures from a single RAW file (technique 3 above) is theoretically an improper way of creating a 32-bit HDR image. If you intend to use the HDR image file for 3D rendering, then you should not use this technique, as you will not get accurate linear pixel values required for image based lighting. However, if you are only interested in the tone mapped result, then creating "fake" exposures is a valuable technique, as long as you get improved results over technique 1 or 2.

You can see some examples obtained with technique 3 in this user gallery for instance. Also, this tutorial on RAW HDR Processing details the technique.

On the other hand, some high end cameras have sensors with a depth of 14 bits, which means two f-stops more of dynamic range. It is definitely a good idea to try the Tone Mapping tool of Photomatix on the 16-bit TIFF file derived from the the RAW data of such cameras. Also, the dynamic range of the RAWs of the Fuji S3 and S5 Pro is higher than RAWs of other DSLRs.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[aeon]

Thanks Kan Win, good quote.

As a user of a 14bit raw dslr camera, I really recommend this file format to whoever need an higher range of f-stops for post processing single shots, recommended for action shots (a bit over exposed).

Edited June 22, 2009 by aeon

[aeon]

and some think that is is possible to get something out of pixels that isn't there.

if you mean to get details from white over exposed pixels from a single RAW file (especially from 14bit), then you definitively can (limited to a good range of f-stops). If you want to get other things from those pixels then... depends...

Edited June 22, 2009 by aeon

[lordsux]

As I no longer can trust 'quotes' on this sub-forum as content can so easily be removed and then things that were never written can be proclaimed in an almost slanderous way, I clicked the link to the Photomatix FAQ, and sure enough the word 'fake' is used. Along with the attached splashscreen from the program and the definition of 'Pseudo' from dictionary.com it seems that even HDRsoft the company that makes Photomatix agree that their program cannot make real HDR images from single files, kudos to them for not trying to convince people that they are by naming them 'pseudo-HDR' files.

pseu⋅do

  /ˈsudoʊ/ [soo-doh]

–adjective

1. not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham.

2. almost, approaching, or trying to be.

So all in all a very good link that should put an end to this discussion. (this is the internet, so I doubt it though)

Yours truly,

lordsux

[aeon]

As I no longer can trust 'quotes' on this sub-forum as content can so easily be removed and then things that were never written can be proclaimed in an almost slanderous way, I clicked the link to the Photomatix FAQ, and sure enough the word 'fake' is used. Along with the attached splashscreen from the program and the definition of 'Pseudo' from dictionary.com it seems that even HDRsoft the company that makes Photomatix agree that their program cannot make real HDR images from single files, kudos to them for not trying to convince people that they are by naming them 'pseudo-HDR' files.

pseu⋅do

  /ˈsudoʊ/ [soo-doh]

–adjective

1. not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham.

2. almost, approaching, or trying to be.

So all in all a very good link that should put an end to this discussion. (this is the internet, so I doubt it though)

Yours truly,

lordsux

sorry I don't use Photomatix or pseudo-hdr, but consider that it costs just 99$ there might be a reason...

in thailand you can get a pseudo-rolex for very good price

Edited June 22, 2009 by aeon