Mild Electric Shock From Shower Taps

[Crossy]

The 'switches' should be individual breakers for each circuit.

Would be a good idea to post a photo of your distribution board so we can confirm exactly what you have

If you feel confident to take a picture with the lid off (power off at the breaker) we can confirm how your grounding is (or isn't) wired.

[GungaDin]

Soon after moving in to my (rented) house, I bought a washing machine, 1st time I used it it gave me a shock that sent me flying to the other end of the kitchen.

Got a local sparky in and got the house earthed properly, upgraded all the powerpoints to 3 hole Panasonics etc. my best investment so far!

[lopburi3]

Is there a test button on the Square D main breaker (is it called RCD or RCCD or some such thing?)? Or on any of the other breakers/switches? You really should be sure to have a breaker protecting you from ground fault (you being the path to ground). They are not that expensive and save lives.

[longball53098]

Thanks kamalabob2, I have just emailed them and asked, when I enquired at homemart when I purchased them the sales staff said they could go inside or outside the house so hopefully they were right but best to check anyway I guess as, like you said, they will be exposed to rain/sun etc.

The guy who built the house has assured me today that all the electrics are grounded and we have a square D circuit breaker too. The chap who fitted the tanks has also been out today and did 'something' which he said will stop the problem, not sure what though as I wasn't there. The hot water runs through copper pipes, not steel like someone mentioned earlier. I have just been home and used the taps & shower and so far so good, no more shocks! I will keep chasing Ariston in the UK too just for peace of mind.

The hot water runs through copper pipes, not steel like someone mentioned earlier.

Steel pipe or copper pipes whatever. The pipes are a perfect conductor for an electric current if a continuous path to the tap and the person holding the tap. Remember that most wiring is copper because of its ability to conduct electricity.

[Phrakhanong]

I'm surprised that people here are not used to outdoor water heating. Back in Oz, almost all houses have water heaters outdoors, attached to the outer wall (both gas and electric).

[lopburi3]

Perhaps because this is not Oz? And most people do not heat water as the weather is a bit warmer? And that when they do it is normally done at point of use to save money/fuel/save re-plumbing house for hot water lines.

[skybluestu]

OK, well all the electric used in the house is grounded, I now know for sure and the electrician and guy who fitted the water tanks came round again today and grounded both of the water tanks separately so hopefully now there will be no more problems. Typically, the shower worked fine when they first came yesterday so couldn't experience the problem themselves but still agreed to ground each tank anyway.

Both of them are very experienced and usually work for the two biggest homebuilders where I live, they worked on my house out of hours for extra cash and came highly recommended which is why I was surprised when I first had the problem. Thanks for all your advice/concerns, much appreciated, but I hope this is now sorted and can shower shock-free from now on.

ps...Kamalabob2, what is it your wife saw that made her pronounce that it wasn't a professional job? All the housing developments I looked at before deciding to build my own house had outside water-heaters.

Edited June 18, 2009 by skybluestu

[lopburi3]

You have not advised that you have RCD protection. Have you checked your breaker box to see? Or asked workers if you have Safe-T-Cut type protection? Having grounds does not prevent death from a short to ground - RCD device likely would. Sorry - don't mean to preach; but it could save your lives, and costs very little.

[skybluestu]

You have not advised that you have RCD protection. Have you checked your breaker box to see? Or asked workers if you have Safe-T-Cut type protection? Having grounds does not prevent death from a short to ground - RCD device likely would. Sorry - don't mean to preach; but it could save your lives, and costs very little.

Thanks, I'll check. Do Schneider not include RCD protection on all their new square d circuit breakers then?

[Crossy]

Thanks, I'll check. Do Schneider not include RCD protection on all their new square d circuit breakers then?

Two different animals MCBs and RCDs, just post a clear photo of your breaker box, we can identify what you have

[kamalabob2]

The RCBO breakers are a special order item "Up Country" and cost more than the normal square D breakers. But readily available via special order and they were part of our home building contract. My wife is just a village girl who has not yet been to Pattaya so she had not had the opportunity to see exterior water heaters. I do not think she has ever seen a water heater with a tank. We both agree you have an attractive home, neither she nor I had ever seen a tank installed as such. We hope that the moon lighting electricians will solve your problem. Our home builder also hired moon lighting electricians who worked weekends here for months on all electrical installations other than the Three phase power, transformer and poles.

I had some questions last year on our Square D products and this staff person answered them. Perhaps they can help along with the Ariston staff to make your home 100% safe.

If you have other inquiry, you can contact to our customer care at 0 2617

5555 fax 0-2617-5556.

Best Regards

Customer Care Center

Schneider (Thailand) Ltd.

Rungrojthanakul Building, 15th Floor,

44/1 Ratchadapisek Road,

Huaykwang Sub-District,

Huaykwang District, Bangkok 10320

Tel: + 662 617 5500 Fax: + 662 617 5501

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>

[skybluestu]

Thanks Crossy, I'll take a picture tonight and post it tomorrow. And thanks too Kamalabob2 for the Schneider info, very handy to have and I will ask my wife to get in contact with them tomorrow. I am as 'up country' as you can get as I am in Chiang Rai and (fortunately) have also never been to, and never want to go to, Pattaya.

[skybluestu]

No more shocks since each heater was grounded so looks like all OK now. Here's a pic of the circuit breaker, can't see anything that says RCD on there so I guess it doesn't have one, are they really beneficial and if so are they easy to have added?

[Crossy]

No more shocks since each heater was grounded so looks like all OK now. Here's a pic of the circuit breaker, can't see anything that says RCD on there so I guess it doesn't have one, are they really beneficial and if so are they easy to have added?

You are correct, you have NO RCD protection.

For your own safety and peace of mind you should install an RCD. Quickest would be to replace your main switch with a combined RCD/MCB unit. If that's not available then an external Safe-T-Cut is the next best option.

Talk to your sparks

[loong]

Or maybe try to find a new sparks.

You've had the electrician out to check after you report electric shocks and he STILL didn't recommend that you have a safety breaker?

I would have no confidence in this electrician at all. Mind you, I'm, sorry to say that i have very little confidence in anyone who calls themself an electrician here.

Edited June 20, 2009 by loong

[borovik]

I've just moved into a new house and both myself and my partner have received mild electric shocks when we touched the shower taps and sink taps (tap = faucet). Nothing serious but enough to make us drop the shower & pull away from the taps?

Anyone have any idea why or how we can prevent this please?

Thanks in advance

You want to know the reason for your shock,without any technical bulshit?

Its Thais attitude:"mai pen rai".

Some time ago it happened:I bought heater from serious electric supplies shop together with instalation:leaving instalation in hands of profesionals.

What was the effect? - they did not ground it!You can see inside the heater big,red color warning printed in English&Thai to ground the unit,and the big screw designed for that.

The "professionals" explanation? - "it works without it".

no comments

[loong]

can't see anything that says RCD on there so I guess it doesn't have one, are they really beneficial

Are they beneficial???

You've already had some mild electric shocks, so you know that stray current can travel to earth through your body. If you had received a full power electric shock with only a 20 amp breaker to stop the flow, you or your wife would most likely be dead. The RCD would cut the power almost immediately.

With an RCD you'd still need to address the existing problem as you will likely get a lot of nuisance trips.

[GungaDin]

I get the impression that the OP is not taking the advice given here, seriously!

[Carib]

I get the impression that the OP is not taking the advice given here, seriously!

Take a look at the OP`s comment in post 37, I think he did take the advice..

[skybluestu]

I get the impression that the OP is not taking the advice given here, seriously!

And what gives you that impression GungaDin? I get the impression that you trawl through thaivisa looking for people to make negative comments about! I am taking it seriously, why have I gone to the trouble of asking for advice and posting pics on here to try and find out the real problem instead of just accepting the 'mai pen rai' attitude of the local electrician, I know FA about electrics and together with the fact that it's difficult to find an english speaking electrician where I live means that it's a slow process to get this sorted out quickly.

Keep your daft comments to yourself in future or make them in the ladies section where you belong!

[Artisi]

You can't go past the link put up by Crossy http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ have a good read as it explains all in simple understandable terms. Look especially at "your main distribution board"

Edited June 20, 2009 by Artisi

[GungaDin]

I get the impression that the OP is not taking the advice given here, seriously!

And what gives you that impression GungaDin? I get the impression that you trawl through thaivisa looking for people to make negative comments about! I am taking it seriously, why have I gone to the trouble of asking for advice and posting pics on here to try and find out the real problem instead of just accepting the 'mai pen rai' attitude of the local electrician, I know FA about electrics and together with the fact that it's difficult to find an english speaking electrician where I live means that it's a slow process to get this sorted out quickly.

Keep your daft comments to yourself in future or make them in the ladies section where you belong!

An infantile response, which does not surprise me.

[skybluestu]

I spoke to some of my neighbours and they said that they were told they couldn't/shouldn't have any sort of safety cut or rcd as the electricty in the area we live fluctuates so much that it would cause numerous cut-outs on a daily basis, does this sound plausible?

If the voltage did increase/decrease a lot would that cause the electricity to cut out like they said or are they talking nonsense?

ps...GungaDin, while I'm on the subject of nonsense, your posts are pathetic, take them to another thread and stop polluting this one please.

[lopburi3]

Nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

Edited June 21, 2009 by lopburi3

[farangmal]

You need a qualified person to check that the water heaters are grounded properly and the house breaker panel is grounded properly and protected with some sort of ground fault protection. RCBO breaker or ELCB on the heaters.

Also the person that wired the heaters may have made a mistake in the hot and neutral may be reversed in the heater terminal connections or at the panel.

What ever the case a qualified person needs to check this out and correct the problem.

I think I would be switching off the heaters until it's fixed.

A cool shower is safer than getting knocked on your arse.

They are not earthed properly. Sounds like there's a difference of potential (Different voltages on the neutral return) between the neutral on the outside of the house and the neutral on the inside. Everytime you touch I presume a metal part you are getting a slight belt.

The only true 0 volt earth is the big rod in the ground that the current returns to at the power station.

Get an electrician and meantime DO NOT touch metal parts.

Edited June 21, 2009 by farangmal

[skybluestu]

Nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

OK, so can I get an RCD added to my current square d circuit breaker or do I need to have a new circuit breaker installed that has an rcd?

[Crossy]

Nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

OK, so can I get an RCD added to my current square d circuit breaker or do I need to have a new circuit breaker installed that has an rcd?

As I noted earlier, you can either replace your exisitng main switch with a combined RCD / MCB unit or you can install an external unit. The external units are usually branded Safe-T-Cut and are often more readily obtainable in remote areas.

http://www.safe-t-cut.com/eng/index.php?na...roduct&id=8

[loong]

I spoke to some of my neighbours and they said that they were told they couldn't/shouldn't have any sort of safety cut or rcd as the electricty in the area we live fluctuates so much that it would cause numerous cut-outs on a daily basis, does this sound plausible?

If the voltage did increase/decrease a lot would that cause the electricity to cut out like they said or are they talking nonsense?

I don't think that any RCD will trip on fluctuations like this. After all the load fluctuates everytime you switch on a light.

I have a secondary RCD for the external power points and this will trip in the case of a power cut, but not fluctuations. This is just an additional safety feature for when using electrical devices outside.

If you are concerned about nuisance trips, maybe it would be better to have separate, safety breakers for each circuit instead of 1 RCD protecting the whole house? One of the experts will advise you on that point I'm sure.

[lopburi3]

As you seem to only have the one panel I would recommend you buy a new panel to house a main breaker/Safe-T-Cut/your current panel. They do not cost that much and provide room to tap the non RCD breaker if required due to nuisance trips from a leaky air conditioner or refrigerator.

[skybluestu]

Nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

OK, so can I get an RCD added to my current square d circuit breaker or do I need to have a new circuit breaker installed that has an rcd?

As I noted earlier, you can either replace your exisitng main switch with a combined RCD / MCB unit or you can install an external unit. The external units are usually branded Safe-T-Cut and are often more readily obtainable in remote areas.

http://www.safe-t-cut.com/eng/index.php?na...roduct&id=8

Strange coincidence, he must visit all new houses I guess, but a guy came round offering a safe-t-cut device about an hour ago and showed me, with a hairdryer, some water and my hand, how it works!!! 8500 baht payable over 3 months, pretty reasonable when you consider the possible outcome if one isn't installed.

Thanks to everyone who contributed (apart from that one idiot) you've been a great help!